wanted to rescue 2 siamese cats

[Millys Mum]

Mum cat would be a bit of risk to put in a multicat home wouldnt she?

[Dawn F]

I'm assuming she is working on you and you are working on oh, hope I'm right!!!!

[LesleyW]

Dawn F, do you mean Dawn working on me, or the work I am having to do

[Dawn F]

I hope that means what I think it means lesley!

[madkittyrescue]

Looking at one of the sites on Corona, it was aimed at breeders and how to overcome the kittens catching it, I think this is totally wrong and bloody annoyed me, what they need to be stressing is getting them done and hopefully eliminating the problem. 

There will always be people out there who 'learn' how to 'get round' a disease or situation and share with others.  I think it should be down to the morals of the person to decide whether or not to jeopardise the lives of their cats for 'money'  But do agree with you that it is the wrong attitude and more should be done to stop breeding where the problem is severe as in the case of Simba and Coco.

I think though that until that happens folks like us will have to pick up the pieces!! 

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

The instances that we had we had no choice as they came in preggers and were plastered in poo from one end to the other.  We couldn't leave kittens in that... she wasn't cleaning herself let alone the babys.  But despite taking the kittens away we lost most of the kittens which was put down to the extremely poor condition of the mothers prior and during pregnancy.   It was made worse by the fact that we also nearly lost the mothers after the pregnancy as it all proved too much strain on their systems and were critically ill for several weeks before starting to return to health.

Poor mum and babies      In this situation, you can only do what your best and sometimes that isn't even good enough  

[LesleyW]

I wonder who that could be .  I'm in turn working on somebody, but you don't have to do the work I do 

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

I am working on someone at the moment 

[Sabrina (Auferstehen)]

Aww hopefully you’ll find a home for the mom cat!

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

I know the mum of Simba and Coco has just had her last litter, she is being spayed and rehomed and I'm currently trying to find somewhere for her.  At least that's one less cat for breeding, just have to work on the others then 

Looking at one of the sites on Corona, it was aimed at breeders and how to overcome the kittens catching it, I think this is totally wrong and bloody annoyed me, what they need to be stressing is getting them done and hopefully eliminating the problem.  The breeder I'm dealing with has sort of addressed the problem but only with me drumming it into her, I'm hoping in the future, most of her cats will be done and rehomed 

[madkittyrescue]

Modified  I've just looked at a couple of sites and that's the only way I can see for transmisision is the foecal/oral route    It looks like this vet got it wrong    This is probably how breeders get away with continuing to breed when the queen is a carrier which just seems totally wrong in my opinion.  I think mum's and kittens should be together and if the mum is a carrier, she should be spayed but alot of breeders are just in it for the money 

I agree Dawn... in a rescue situation tho... I'm sure you know its not always possible but we do try to keep them with mum.    The instances that we had we had no choice as they came in preggers and were plastered in poo from one end to the other.  We couldn't leave kittens in that... she wasn't cleaning herself let alone the babys.  But despite taking the kittens away we lost most of the kittens which was put down to the extremely poor condition of the mothers prior and during pregnancy.   It was made worse by the fact that we also nearly lost the mothers after the pregnancy as it all proved too much strain on their systems and were critically ill for several weeks before starting to return to health.

From a breeders stand point I (personally) think it is highly irresponsible to breed from highly infected cats with FCoV and as you say... that is when it seems to be more about the money than anything else.  I know of a few breeders who have problems but deny it publicly and probably aren't doing anything about it either!

At the end of the day I think if you have a problem like this you can't realy ignore it... and if you don't notice well then you're in the wrong job!!!

Sadly it is very true that there are a good proportion that are in it just for the money and how they get away with running what are almost kitten farms is beyond me!


Jackie - Great to hear that they are both doing grand.  I take it that the vet has confirmed the belly isn't a fluid build up??  (that's what I'd be afraid of).

[Jackie D]

So....John's mission for tomorrow then, is to get a pikkie or two of Coco's tum tum (never mind tiling and re-plumbing the downstairs cloak )

watch this space, and we will see what we can do ha ha

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Yes I think we should see pictures of Cocos tummy, hope she doesnt explode 

Pleased things are going well on the reduced tabs 

[Jeannette]

Have been lurking & following this story - so pleased they are doing so well

[Jackie D]

Hi to you all from Simba and Coco (or should I say little barrel!!) she is a fatty or what!!.  We have reduced steroids and so far things are looking good.  Day 3.5  ish of reduced dose so fingers crossed. Coco is getting fatter by the minute both ok and looking good though.  I will try to get a pikkie of her big fat belly to show you all I do think it is empty though ha ha

see ya

JJSC
xxxx

[Jackie D]

  well we will just have to wait and see won't we.   had a good day today again and found some more nice sleeping quarters (wardrobe and airing cupboard).  By the Way Diddy Dawn, Simba and Coco resent the fact that you implkied they didn't smell very nice and challenge you to come and have a sniff for yourself now then......roses spring to mind .

post some more pikkies at the weekend

update later

JJSC
xxxx

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

Not necessarily.  If memory serves me correctly it isn't passed in the womb and the kittens can only be affected with direct contact to mums poo!! 

I had a chat to one of the other vets the other day and he did say it was possible that Simba and Coco had the virus passed on via the placenta.  Re handrearing, I wouldn't be into this at all I'm afraid unless the kittens were rejected.   I would hate the idea of a mum having to go through all the hassle of giving birth, to have her babies swiped at the end of it, that is my personal opinion, I think where possible, the babies should be reared by mum.

Modified  I've just looked at a couple of sites and that's the only way I can see for transmisision is the foecal/oral route    It looks like this vet got it wrong    This is probably how breeders get away with continuing to breed when the queen is a carrier which just seems totally wrong in my opinion.  I think mum's and kittens should be together and if the mum is a carrier, she should be spayed but alot of breeders are just in it for the money 

[Dawn F]

oh Jackie!  I hope she isn't poor thing must be exhausted from just living - hopefully it is just a bad case of wind!

[madkittyrescue]

Hey Dawn,

If she is which I'm praying she isn't, there is a good chance these kittens will have problems because of the medication and if they are okay, there's a good chance they will also carry the Corona Virus. 

Not necessarily.  If memory serves me correctly it isn't passed in the womb and the kittens can only be affected with direct contact to mums poo!!     If kittens are taken off her after the first few hours they should be fine  (obviously to give them time to get the colostrum sp??)

Obviously more work for you as you have to hand rear.  THis was the scenario for us when we had issues with the virus in the past.

Great news to hear they are doing so well tho... fingers crossed she isn't preggers tho!   

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

Baggsy a kitten for me if she is - I'd love a siamese!!

If she is which I'm praying she isn't, there is a good chance these kittens will have problems because of the medication and if they are okay, there's a good chance they will also carry the Corona Virus.  We have traced this back to the mum cat of Coco and Simba and it seems poor Pagan also mated with their mum    I'm going to have a chat with Sean tomorrow because I do also think if she is, the kittens would easily be felt at this stage.  Simba was neutered a good while ago, this was also my concern in case he had mated with her but the breeder assures me he was done a good few months ago, again I'm going to double check with Sean.

Jackie, I would ask the vet to check for gas in her tummy, because of their recent change in food, I would think this is highly likely.

[Angiew]

I'd have thought that of she was 6 weeks or more, the vet would have been able to feel something!

Baggsy a kitten for me if she is - I'd love a siamese!!

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

I think with her being underweight and her general health Des, I doubt very much she has ever had a season.   When Sophie was really poorly, it took a good 6 months after the illness for her to come into heat, I knew then she was well enough to go through a spay.  I would think like humans, they would have to be fit enough to carry babies, when a woman isn't in good health, underweight etc, her periods are likely to stop and this is the bodies way of telling you, your body isn't in good enough shape for pregnancy.  You have to remember, these cats have been poorly for the last 15 months, I suggested to Sean about getting Coco done before she went to Dawn's but we decided it was best to wait.  Even though I can't say 100% she hasn't been near a tom cat, I really don't think she will be pregnant.........if she is, the tom cat must have had a very strong nose as the smell of these cats when I picked them up was       

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

ahhhh right , I wondered if that would Dawn 

[Desley (booktigger)]

Fingers crossed she isn't pregnant - phantom pregnancies aren't that common in cats, unlike dogs. If she hasn't shown any signs of being in heat, that could be due to pregnancy.

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

The other thing I was thinking is this could possibly be wind, I know that sounds daft but I had a youngster here that was constantly bloating up and when Sean squeezed his tum, a load of gas came out 

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

Maybe I being daft but how do you stop em getting a phantom pregnancy?

Getting them spayed 

[LesleyW]

Before I got involved in rescue, I thought my cat Molly was pregnant and when I took her to the Vet, the Vet said "she should produce kittens in approximately two weeks".  Three weeks later we went back to the Vet and she was not pregnant, it was a phantom, so they can fool the experts as well (the vet, not me).  Hopefully it is just a phantom Jackie but glad to hear they are doing so well.  I'm so happy for you and jealous as well  , makes me think of my Pagan

[Jackie D]

No idea at all
x

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Maybe I being daft but how do you stop em getting a phantom pregnancy?

[Jackie D]

  for that.  I do hope you are right will obviously keep you posted though
xx

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

Glad they are both doing well    After speaking with you last week Jackie, I did have a chat with the breeder again and she said it was impossible that she is pregnant as she hasn't been near any other cats but, I honestly wouldn't want to rely 100% on anything she tells me    Hopefully it is just a phantom, if she isn't pregnant which I'm hoping she isn't and she isn't calling, if cats aren't 100% healthwise, not all of them have a season until they are fit and well so I wouldn't worry too much.  The chances are if she has been checked and the vets can't feel anything, it will be a phantom as at this stage, they would be easy to feel.  She definitely isn't spayed, she wasn't done because of her health problems and for her sake, it was better that she was in better health before going under the knife.  I would get her checked again soon and if she's up to it, I would get her booked in........phantom pregnancies can make them ill which is the last thing you need. 

[Sam (Fussy_Furball)]

Oh dear ... this site might help you: http://www.pusscats.com/Cat_Pregnancy.htm

[Jackie D]

Yes Gill, they came from a breeder.  Sam, I am not sure how they tell if she has been spayed or not.  Diddy dawn told me that she hadn't been spayed though.  So yes you are right, and we will just have to wait and see.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Oh well we are going to have to wait and see then 

Of course they came from a breeder didnt they?

[Sam (Fussy_Furball)]

Glad the vet's visit went went and the babies are gaining weight (let's just hope Coco has been stuffing herself rather then carrying kittens  ).

How do they tell if she has been spayed ... can they shave her and see if she has a scar?

[Jackie D]

Simba is the boy and is nutered.  Coco is the little lady and she obviously isn't spayed .  We got them on 2nd December and I believe Diddy Dawn took them to the other Dawns and they were there 5 days??...they came straight from whoever to Dawn....so if she is pregnant...it must have happened at her original owners????Oh Heck I hope not!!

xx

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

My goodness I thought they were boys! 

I cant remmber how long you have had them and the two Dawns before you but wouldnt she have been calling at some stage?

Arent they both neutered?


Well I am pleased that they are both doing well and hope that she is not pregnant 

[Jackie D]

Howdy folks,

vets trip a success.   She is very pleased with the two and we are now reducing steroids again (hope it works better this time).  Both have gained weight again, Simba weighs in at 3.5 kilos and Coco weighs in at 3.2 kilos. both are very happy and bright....and we didn't have any problems...not even after stealing the cooking oil .

I would like to share something with you all.....I didn't want to say before as I don't have any experience what so ever in this area......and may still be completely wrong...so if I am then just put it down to being the wrong side of 40 and things .  A couple of weeks ago, I was thinking that Coco wasa looking a little round in the belly department, she is now even rounder in the belly department but I did say to John that I thought she might be pregnant (never had a cat that was preggy before, previous females have always been spayed).  DONT BE SILLY, was Johns reply!!.........so last week when I spoke to Diddy Dawn, I told her...........and today when we went to the vets....as soon as the vet saw her she said.....SHE LOOKS PREGNANT!!!!! anyway she had a feel and can't feel anything.....so called in vet number 2 who also said....OH SHE LOOKS PREGNANT!!!.....she also had a feel and can't feel anything........ they are both (and so are we actually) hoping that she is NOT pregnant...what with all the steroids etc that they have had over the last few weeks.....BUT...we will have to watch this space.....going back to the Vets 2 weeks from today (so they can have another feel|) oh dear....lets just hope she's having a little phantom pregnancy poor little lady!!  what ever next!!

[Mark]

At least there is no danger of him having a furball 

Sounds like they are well on the mend 

[Desley (booktigger)]

Sounds like they are doing well, and good luck for the vet app