Convenia - long acting antibiotic - this shouldnt have been used on Suzie

[Sam (Fussy_Furball)]

Another thing i was thinking of that i think i tried to say to gillian this morning but not very well is i've known of drugs that have certain warnings printed on the contra indications, but within general practice across the board it would be widely known that in most cases the drug would still be safe to use

IE before that happens there has probably a large study done where the safety hasnt yet been printed or perhaps say out of 500 animals only 1 showed a reaction that couldnt be 100% identified as actually having been that drug that caused it - does any of that make sense ?

Of course i am in no way saying that about that antibiotic in particular as i've admitted i dont know about it at all.

I agree with the others, its always worth having a friendly chat to the vet who gave the biotic, after all you have many other cats who i presume you take to same vet so trust is important.

Lynn surely in cases where 1 in 500 or so had an unexplained reaction it would just be noted as an "adverse event" rather than an actual contraindication.  To clearly print on the packaging this product should NOT be administered to cats with renal failure implies they are well aware of the risks following clinical trials. 

(sorry to be picky but I worked in a clinical trials department for 10 years).

[CurlyCatz]

Another thing i was thinking of that i think i tried to say to gillian this morning but not very well is i've known of drugs that have certain warnings printed on the contra indications, but within general practice across the board it would be widely known that in most cases the drug would still be safe to use

IE before that happens there has probably a large study done where the safety hasnt yet been printed or perhaps say out of 500 animals only 1 showed a reaction that couldnt be 100% identified as actually having been that drug that caused it - does any of that make sense ?

Of course i am in no way saying that about that antibiotic in particular as i've admitted i dont know about it at all.

I agree with the others, its always worth having a friendly chat to the vet who gave the biotic, after all you have many other cats who i presume you take to same vet so trust is important.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Defiinitely have a chat with your vet, Gillian, just to set your mind at rest as to why it was administered and to make sure your vet is aware of the contraindications..  Maybe your vet thought the potential benefits outweighed the risks, given that Suzie was already in end stage renal failure.  Don't beat yoursefl up about it though - you did everything you could for Suzie and I think it's unlikely this antibiotic made any difference 

[Desley (booktigger)]

Gillian, one thing you have to bear in mind is that there are loads of cats who have treatments with no side effects (unless you are talking about supermarket flea/worm products), sometimes we hear more of the bad side than the good on here, so it isn't always a true reflection on the drugs.

[Yvonne]

Hi Gillian,

I know what you are going through and feelings are still raw, I have no doubt that you have good days and bad days.  You need to get this off your chest and I suggest that if you have not yet contacted the Vet, write a letter to the Vet Practice and see what they have to say.  I went through something very similar with Cleo.

http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php?topic=285.0

  and keep us posted.

 

[Gillian Harvey]

Thanks for your replies - I think Lynn helped me see that giving the antibiotic wouldnt have made much difference one way or the other, as Suzie was already in end stage CRF - BUT, what I'm having trouble with is the fact that its only because I looked this up and found the contraindications, that I now know about it. How many other times have certain drugs been used in situations where they are contraindicated?

There seem to be many posts recently of drastic side effects of so many drugs, flea treatments etc, the risks of which, to my mind, outweigh the benefits..... did I say that the right way round? I've re-read it and it don't sound right,  you know what I mean I hope,  - I mean I'd rather NOT take the risks of some of these drugs etc - for the little benefit they may bring. Its late and my brain isnt in gear! 

[Ralph's mum (angie)]

Oh Gillian that's terrible.  If I was you I would definitely contact the vet and  discuss this ... if only to make them aware of the contraindication. 

Gillian, you haven't allowed anything to happen, don't blame yourself.  I would approach your vets and have a chat with them and explain your concerns 

I totally agree with the girls on this, all you did was your best for Suzie

[swampmaxmum]

Definitely speak to the vet and tell him just how tortured you feel and how he should have discussed it with you.  Nothing will bring Suzie back, but you must talk to him or you'll just feel more and more terrible. It's his fault, if it's anyone's, not your's.

I was in a similar but less serious situation where 2 vets told me Swampy's blood tests were normal when his liver enzymes were quite raised and he nearly died from routine administration of Torbugesic for a pointless heart scan which caused acute cholangiohepatitis. I still berate myself daily for doing the flipping thing. Nothing will change that.  99 times out of 100 cats with liver problems don't react badly to Torbugesic so the vets did what they usually do. The anger and pain that makes you feel that you hurt the little one you love while trying to help them is so intense. But we have to use vets as can't heal our babies ourselves. Your vet probably uses that long acting antibiotic all the time - I know Swamp's has had it while his liver was dodgy to help his cold infection, so knowing that it can be harmful to cats with CRF or liver disease has already helped me next time. However get your vet to explain his choice and good luck.

I'm so so sorry that you are suffering so much Gillian. You did all you could for your little Suzie and I'm sure she knew that. x

[Desley (booktigger)]

I would have a chat with the vet Gillian, and see if they can put your mind at rest. Good luck.

[Mark]

You can't blame yourself Gillian, we trust the vets to know what they are doing and can't know everything about medicine ourselves - Although I agree that a vet should be aware of all contra-indications of anything they administer or prescribe. I would speak to the vet but it won't help Suzie, although it could help other cats. Its a shame that vets aren't as answerable as regular doctors. You could still consider suing if you think its the right thing to do after speaking to him.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Oh Gillian, dont blame yourself please 

I think you need to make an appointment to see your vet and print out the information and take it with you. Is it possible to take anyone with you?

I know my vet used this on Ducha or was it Franta and no mention was made of the kidney aspect and both are nearly 14 yrs old. he did say that it only worked  for certain things and many of the things that the 48hr injection was used for would not be helped by this. I have forgotten grrrrrrrrrrrrrr the exect things he said though.

I remember after the death of Kocka I was very unhappy with the lack of treatment she had and care for that matter but my vets were like mercury and the emotions that one has after losing a best friend are traumatic enough without vets! Also to make matters worse, one of the grieving processes is looking for someone to blame, yourself, the vets, the medicine etc. However if Suzie had kidney failure before thsi drug was administered then it does look possible that this drug should not have been adminstered.

I think it right to question the vet and I hope that he has a good answer for you.

Am thinking of you 

[Sam (Fussy_Furball)]

A bit more reading:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalosporin

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bsc/jvpt/2006/00000029/00000006/art00008?token=0040138971d7630505d2a67232d45237b7524317b76574979663e3fe42c4a414

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

Gillian, you haven't allowed anything to happen, don't blame yourself.  I would approach your vets and have a chat with them and explain your concerns 

[Gillian Harvey]

Thanks Sam, further reading I found this:

In addition, as regards renal excretion of the active
substance, animals with severe renal dysfunction should not be treated, in order to avoid potential
adverse effects that may be associated with accumulation of the substance.

What adverse effects? could that be why Suzie was howling from that Friday throughout the weekend, was there an accumulation of the stuff making her feel worse. I don't know why my vet gave her antibiotic anyway  - I wasnt thinking straight - all I wanted was something to make her feel better and I've always trusted my vet, I didnt question what she was giving her and I can hardly bear this now, because I'm thinking that injection was just too much of an assault on her failing kidneys, and I my vet let it happen and I let it happen, I'm gutted and in tears, its brought it all back.

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

I'm really sorry about Suzie hun 

With the Convenia jab, I've used it a few times on the feral cats and tbh, I think they get an initial hit for the first 2 or 3 days and then the effect gets less and less so although they say it's in the system for up to 14 days, the effect is minimal after only a few days.

[Sam (Fussy_Furball)]

If found this which might be useful: 

http://www.emea.europa.eu/vetdocs/PDFs/EPAR/convenia/Convenia-EPARSummary-en.pdf

http://www.emea.europa.eu/vetdocs/PDFs/EPAR/convenia/Convenia-ScientificDicscussion-en.pdf

There is a bit about contraindications here:  http://www.emea.europa.eu/vetdocs/PDFs/EPAR/convenia/V-098-PI-en.pdf


# Cefovecin (Convenia®) for Bacterial Infections
   

Cefovecin (Convenia®) is a new third generation cephalosporin developed by Pfizer Animal Health for the treatment of aerobic and anaerobic gram negative and gram positive infections of the urinary tract, soft tissue, and periodontal pocket. Cefovecin is a bactericidal against Staphylococcus and Streptococcus species, Escherichia coli, Pasteurella multocida, and Klebsciella and Proteus species, but is not active against Pseudamonas or Enterococcus species.

Cefovecin has a long half-life of 6.9 days in cats and 5.4 days in dogs and demonstrates prolonged concentrations in extracellular fluid allowing for dosing every 14 days. If required, the dose of 8 mg/kg subcutaneously in dogs and cats can be repeated every 14 days for a total of three doses. Cefovecin is eliminated through renal excretion with up to 25% biliary excretion. No adverse reactions were noted in preliminary studies, but cefovecin should not be given to animals allergic to penicillins or cephalosporins, less than 8 weeks old, if they are pregnant or lactating, or have severe renal dysfunction. Cefovecin is available in Europe but not the US.

[Sam (Fussy_Furball)]

Oh Gillian that's terrible.  If I was you I would definitely contact the vet and  discuss this ... if only to make them aware of the contraindication. 

[Gillian Harvey]

Do you remember we talked about the long acting antibiotic injection some while back? Not the 48 hr one that is sometimes given, but Convenia, which remains in the body for about 14 days. At the time I experessed some reservations about the fact that it stays in the body for that amount of time, it just seemed like too much in one go I thought.

When Suzie was very poorly (kidney failure) on the Friday before she was put to sleep, my vet gave her a steroid, vitB - and an antibiotic injection. At the time my vet said she'd give her a long acting antibiotic - I wasnt really concentrating becuase of being so worried about Suzie, and just thought she meant the usual 48hr one. Well I recently looked at the invoice and saw the name Convenia on there. I've just looked it up on the internet and felt sick when I saw this paragraph:

'Convenia should also not be used in dogs or cats of less than 8 weeks old, or in dogs or cats
with severe kidney problems (renal dysfunction).'

As you know Suzie got worse over that weekend and had to be put to sleep on the Monday. Has my vet made a terrible mistake?  I don't know what to think, could Suzie still be here if she hadnt had that injection? - I know I shouldnt be torturing myself with the 'what ifs' and all that - and I know nothing can bring her back, but I need to get my head round this - why shouldnt this injection be used in cats with kidney failure? and how can I find out what the consequences of using it in such a cat would be?