How close to a busy road is too close?

[Littlebobo]

I feel it is probably something that i should post on.

When we first got cats we thought we should keep them indoors it wasn't safe where we lived ..we then moved to the 'country' where we assumed it was a safe area we only have one road through which is a ( or used to be) quiet road with 30mph limit.

Anyway since moving here we have lost 2 cats one which i know was def an RTA the other i will never really know what happened ..either way i would have known what had happened if they had been indoor..my garden is not suitable for cat proofing as it is shared access .

I personally think a cat would only be safe on a farm where there is no real chance of a car or other threat getting near them ..even then people can be just as dangerous !

I think when we get a bigger house i will definetley cat proof the garden or make sure i am somewhere A LOT LOT safer ..Sometimes i do feel as though i am depriving them but i know they are happy and get spoilt rotten ( not that they dont deserve it )..

I hope that makes sense and i have not rambled on too much ?!

[Gillian Harvey]

Gill, in your picture of your garden, do the fences stop other cats jumping in?


Emma x

Hi Emma, my safe fenced area doesnt stop other cats jumping in unfortunately, but its been there about 3 yrs now and only ever had 1 cat in (mind you it was the same cat a few times LOL!) The first few times I had to grab him and let him out because he got scared when he couldnt get out. But if he comes in now, I see he manages very well to get him self out again, by swinging like a little monkey until he can get himself up and over!

Gillian

[blackcat]

When I lived in rural Tasmania, I had several hundred acres for the cats to roam in. It had all manner of interesting things including hollows full of rubbish and tangles of thorns, trees, rabbit burrows and all the delights of a rough unkempt open area. This did not stop one adventurous kitty from exploring the highway that went through a deep steep-sided cutting several hundred yards from my back fence. It happened on Christmas Day and a further search between main course and pudding resulted in her discovery. I have never been able to face Christmas Pudding since without thinking of her, poor wee thing.

[Tiggy's Mum]

Helen, I think only you can decide as you know the area, the amount and speed of cars in the area etc. Will they have access to outside during the day, are you out at work all day? I think in your position I would be inclined to give them the run of the garden though. But then as others have said, which I agree with, I think it's us that worry they're not experiencing the freedom. I know it sounds cruel, but if they don't know any different, then I'm sure they would be fine. Let us know what you decide.

Emma x

If the garden was catproofed then yes, I would let them out during the day when I'm at work, if I did decide to give them free roam then No, they would have to stay in whilst I'm at work.  To be honest I'm now 99% certain that I'll go down the catproofed garden route rather than allowing them free roam.  Like I said I am lucky that they are not aware of an outside world so I guess to give them a catproofed garden, no matter how small, would be a bonus for them and they have no idea there is something beyond it.  They are perfectly happy and content being indoors, they have a tall climbing frame, plenty of toys and lots of stimulation and interaction from me and of course they have each other to play with. 

[blackcat]

Shadow does his best to maintain the flea population, despite the best efforts of Advantage or other brands 

[Bazsmum]

Hi Em, to my mind the only thing an outdoor cat gets, that an indoor cat doesn't is access to grass.

Dont forget the fleas ARGH!!! 

[blackcat]

Hi Em, to my mind the only thing an outdoor cat gets, that an indoor cat doesn't is access to grass. If you make the inside of your house interesting, then they get all the stimulation and interest they need. Climbing towers, water bowls with running water (those recirculating pump things) and things to scratch, hide under and hunt (mine love a scatter rug!!) and a change of options occasionally so that they don't get too bored.

I love the idea of cat-proofing the garden, and will be exploring that option myself. In Oz, where feral cats are a problem cos they eat small indigenous animals, they have invented something called a floppy fence. Basically the top section of fencing leans away from the location you want to protect and it stops cats by not providing them with a secure footing. In your case, you would lean it towards your garden (as it is the outside world you don't want your cats to access) and it will stop them getting out. The fence is around 7 feet high with around the top one third leaning over at around 45 degrees. Wire mesh (chicken wire) is strained along the lower two thirds and loosely hung along the upper third. So they can climb up it, but then reach a point where they are over on their backs with nothing safe to hang onto. If they jump up at it, they can not get over the top section for the same reason (they can't do the double-kick required to boost them to that height). Possibly not as aesthetically pleasing as some of the options shown below, but it apparently works for protected bilby colonies.

It would also discourage visiting cats as they would again have to negotiate some fairly unsteady footing to gain access.

[em1209]

Right I replied to this earlier and as I had only logged on for an hour I was logged off and so lost my message. Serves me right for only logging on for an hour I suppose! I'll try to remember what I had said .......

Gill, in your picture of your garden, do the fences stop other cats jumping in?

I'm starting to have a similar query. We live in a new build and the garden isn't teeny tiny, but it's not huge. There are alot of other cats living around us most of which seem to think my hard effort at laying our lovely new lawn gives them some superior right to use it as a giant litter tray   . The road isn't that busy, it's a cul de sac, but still as others have said, there are always risks. We had planned on keeping Fergus and Polly inside during the day when we're out and just let them out first thing in the morning and when we get in from work. I am now wondering whether cat proofing the garden would be a better option, haven't told OH yet though  . I don't quite get how it keeps other cats out though, or if they do get in, how do they get out again, or would they have to stay trapped until we release them  ???

Helen, I think only you can decide as you know the area, the amount and speed of cars in the area etc. Will they have access to outside during the day, are you out at work all day? I think in your position I would be inclined to give them the run of the garden though. But then as others have said, which I agree with, I think it's us that worry they're not experiencing the freedom. I know it sounds cruel, but if they don't know any different, then I'm sure they would be fine. Let us know what you decide.

Emma x

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I have a 100ft garden at back , a track then a field but the unnumbered road at front is only wide enought for two vehicles , has a 30 mile speed limit  but is very busy all day with cars , giant lorrys and buses.

I have a side gate which is over 6ft and the wall on that side is  6Ft and over by the gate. The garden only has about 5ft fence on one side and 4'6 wall on other where nasty neighbour is. He has a yappy dog that barks most of time and as far as I know my cats do not go that way. I desperately want to put a fence up attched to my side of wall which will bring it too 6' but things like weather etc have conspired against me so far this year.

I know that Misa and Sasa have sat on the wall that side cos have seen their fur butb dont think probably this year. But I am terrified now about the road cos they are both getting on the big wall and Misa uses it as a lookout across the back gardens. He is getting bolder and bolder and Sasa goes up there too. I cant at moment figure out a way to stop them cos all they have to do is walk along the wall and hope over by the gate and there is flaming road.

Misa  and Sasa like to go hunting in the field and when weather is nice they go missng for hours and also Misa likes to site on fence at side at ottom and use that as a lookout too.

I cant afford to cat proof the whole garden and cant afford rest of wood to fence off the bad side yet but am getting worried. sooooooooo after a long ramble I would keep them inside if they have never known anything else.

Its lovely watching them in the garden chasing and pouncing and snoozing and I feel its so hard to stop them going out if they have been used to that kind of life. I know Sasa would not tollerate being indoors cos she broke thro the cat flap and ran away when I tried to keep her in at night but I do like to know where they all are when I go to bed and its usually in the house. If they go out kater its just a quick in out although if weather is nice they may be out beforte I get up.

[Gillian Harvey]

Just wondering why the bought systems slope upwards aswell as outwards    I'm sure there's some law in physics that explains it perfectly but I never did like physics   

The upward slope seems to be recommended, but although mine all go out in my garden now, I have one area that I safely fenced and that doesnt have an upward slope, and another area that does. The only one who can get out of it is Harry, but then his second name is Houdini!!

Here's a pic of a recommended method, plus a pic of mine



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[Bazsmum]

ive done alot of editing to my post ref: half an inch smaller.....and sorted the gobbaldy gook out 

[Bazsmum]

I think ya right ya know, no where is safe outside for any cat.   I read somewhere that the reason we tend to traditionally think cats should be free roaming is cause we have spent less years domesticating them than we have dogs.  I am sure a dog would like to be free roaming same as a cat but we traditionally would even think of letting a dog do that cause it's too dangerous for them!!!!  Same for cats now in this modern world.

I could'nt agree more 

[Nick (Peanut & Boo)]

Offending kitty tore down the garden and had little trouble in negotiating the fence and the net overhang. It's amazing what can be accomplished with a tail wind and an angry tabby!! 

 

[lilycat]

I've got a cat-proofed garden and none of mine have ever got out but to be fair, I've only ever seen Humphrey make even the slightest attempt. Even then he just looked over the top of the fence through the netting and jumped down again.

A cat did get in once but was swiftly escorted off the premises by Dave [my tabby]. Offending kitty tore down the garden and had little trouble in negotiating the fence and the net overhang. It's amazing what can be accomplished with a tail wind and an angry tabby!! 

[Bazsmum]

Well im half an inch smaller in height than you Helen and get vertigo being any higher than myself (can get out of doing loads of things  )
(with ref to you  your friend installing it)

Yes very simple....was put up in a few hours....its stapled securely to the other side of our fence so when they climb to the top they cant head butt it out of the way.....OH used the excuse.....(reason for not having a vertical incline) because the teens play ball (grr!) out of the back they would prob use it for a goal.....imagine a pleated skirt......thats the sort on config of it 

We also had to buy the new fencing in 6' x 6' panels.....but most peeps will already have the fencing so i hav'nt included that into the cost!)

[Tiggy's Mum]

Thanks Ruth, look like it would be pretty easy for me my friend to do!

I wanted mine sloped in & upwards but only got the inwards? now im confused.....ok so i think my OH got his plans from Steptoe & Sons 

He has given me no room for complaint tho as it still works......we love having a good old theory battle lol! x

Just wondering why the bought systems slope upwards aswell as outwards    I'm sure there's some law in physics that explains it perfectly but I never did like physics    Like you say the main thing is that it works and you still have 5 cats!

[Bazsmum]

Here goes.....didnt realise how hard it would be to take pics of this!!!!!



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[Tiggy's Mum]

Oh Tan, I know this subject is close to your heart    If my hypothetical new garden was the size of yours I woukd have no qualms in going the catproofed garden only route.  The gardens round here really are miniscule though, my sister and hubby have just bought a 3 bed semi (so obviously built with a family in mind) and no joke you couldn't even turn a bike around in it!

Am really glad that Gizzy seems to be adapting to his new territory so well, hope things are becoming a little easier for you and OH aswell 

[Tan]

Thanks for asking this Helen hun. Will be watching with interest at peeps views. I would love a bigger garden, about an acre will do and would cat proof the whole lot    but for now we have to make do with our small one.  I had my Ben here when i 1st moved for 7 years and he was allowed out and must have been very lucky not to be hit. He was 6 when we moved here though and used to traffic in a town.

I think ya right ya know, no where is safe outside for any cat.   I read somewhere that the reason we tend to traditionally think cats should be free roaming is cause we have spent less years domesticating them than we have dogs.  I am sure a dog would like to be free roaming same as a cat but we traditionally would even think of letting a dog do that cause it's too dangerous for them!!!!  Same for cats now in this modern world.

Gizzy has been soooo good he hasn't cried to go out at all last couple of days and it's been 8 days now since the outside world was forbidden.  I so wish he could have his freedom, it does make me sad that he can't but his safety now has to come 1st cause it would be a matter of time with that road.

With the cat proof system i got we have had two neighbourhood cats come into the garden in the 2 years it's been cat proofed.They managed to jump on to our patio roof and jumped off it (8ft drop) to the ground. They were soo scared that they couldn't get out and have never been back.  I had left food out on those both occasions so i always make sure no biscuits are left out at night.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Bazsmum]

I wanted mine sloped in & upwards but only got the inwards? now im confused.....ok so i think my OH got his plans from Steptoe & Sons 

He has given me no room for complaint tho as it still works......we love having a good old theory battle lol! x

[hannah (weeny)]

yeah i guess that makes sense    i totally understood how they wouldnt be able to get out with it all sloped inwards, but thought maye from the other side it would bt easier - glad to hear its not!! 

[Tiggy's Mum]

Thanks Ruth, look forwrd to the pics    I see what you mean about outsider cats not being able to get a steady paw on it, I have been reading up on the bought systems and they work on the same principle, I just didn't realise it applied to cats trying to get in aswell.

[Bazsmum]

OH did.....it was done very cheaply £35 for 50ft including brackets.....there have been attempts but up to now its turning into a proper guarded enclosure for them.....they dont bother trying now lol!

My OH used a staple gun to attatch the mesh to the fence.....wooden brackets to give mesh a bit of support (not much tho) as we didnt want it too sturdy to the feel for them........its about 12 days on now and still 5 cats in the garden lol!

As for other cats getting in it goes on the same principle of your own cats getting out......as they cant get a sturdy paw hold they will not attempt climbing over.....hope that makes sence? 

Il put some pics on later 

[Tiggy's Mum]

ok, time for me to ask something i've been wondering for ages.....  has anyone ever had another cat come into thier cat proofed garden?? i presume other cats can get in but then wouldnt be able to get out????   

I have been wondering the exact same thing Hannah! If I were to catproof the garden I thought it would be nice to have a cat flap so they could go out when I'm at work too but have horrible visions of some nasty bruiser jumping in and terrorising my beautiful boys.  Probably getting a bit ahead of myself seeing as I don't have a garden yet though! 

Ruth - Did you DIY your cat proofing?  How did you find installing it and most importantly - have you had any escape attempts?!

[hannah (weeny)]

ok, time for me to ask something i've been wondering for ages.....  has anyone ever had another cat come into thier cat proofed garden?? i presume other cats can get in but then wouldnt be able to get out????   not critisising or anything, just often wondered, seem to have plenty of cats round here coming into our garden all the time and just something i thought of 


oh and from my point of view nick, the back garden looks lovely!  so that most certainly means the front is preferable to puss cats!! 

[Bazsmum]

Ive just had my garden cat proofed and only needed 50ft of secure netting so i have'nt got a big garden.....there is more than roads to consider when letting your cats out....

Last year after keeping my Baz in for a whole year i done the (feel sorry for him) act....well the little butter went missing....i found him 13 days later in a garage (a man fixed cars in it) reaking of oil, lost weight and could hardly meow through his dry throat......what your cats dont know they cant miss......they will have no urges to roam & they will enjoy sitting out with you....Good luck in whatever you decide to do 

btw.....he was kept in from when i found him last year to me getting cat proofed bout 2 weeks ago......has done him no harm.....we are the soft ones here u know 

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

My front door is only 2 feet from the road, and lorries and buses thunder past us. But my front door opens directly into the livingroom with £1000k of computer equipment, so it's never, ever left open unattended and the cats aren't allowed out the front. 

My house is in a square terrace emcompassing four roads. There's no side entrances or access point anywhere in the terrace that lead to the roads and my garden walls are 9 feet at the lowest point. Even if they did get into next doors, the cats can't get near the road. Ever! I have already spoken to the entire terrace and they all know to notify me if Jumpy or Tilly do manage to get over the walls.

So the answer to your question there is no limit save for the risk limitation you impliment. If I didn't keep a sharp eye on the front door, they'd be dead in minutes. (And my computer would get nicked!) But by imposing rules about which windows can be opened and which can't, my cats are perfectly safe.

It might sound daft, but take a pen and a click board and go round your house and do a risk assesment study of all the access points to the outside. It might be that one side of your house is more dangerous than another. A window left open might give outside access to a danger spot - like a blind corner. Puss leaps out the window full of the joys of spring, and before he's orientated himself to the smells and sounds outside, around the corner comes a car. 

Even if you live in a notorious spot there are things you can do. But even if you live in the most remote part of unspoiled countryside, you cannot guarentee the safety of a cat once it's gone outside.

[Nick (Peanut & Boo)]

sounds like the perfect solution good luck. At least the house will smell better lol 

Ok pussycats here is your options . Which of these areas would you choose to play in and why 



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[ccmacey]

Yes it does not matter where you are there will always be silly people in cars. Im going to cat proof my garden and put a cat flap in so they can go out when ever they like. Also planning to put the hooded litter tray out there too so its not in the house 

[Nick (Peanut & Boo)]

this is such a difficult question isn't it. We would naturally do anything to protect our cats but moving home is such an upheaval especially if there might be no improvement.

My own experience is so similar to all of yours that I felt compelled to post.
I moved home 8 years ago to a a quiet cul-de-sac private lane with only 8 dwellings. The lane which is only wide enough for one vehicle goes past the front doors of three of the cottages including mine. 

I thought this would be about as safe as you could possibly get but I was so wrong.  Most of my neighbours have daily deliveries from Postmen , DIY stores, Tescoes, Couriers, Milkmen, Grocers, Fresh fish deliveries, meals-on-wheels etc etc . Its like picadilly circus all day long and there are only 8 dwellings !....

Worse still inspite of it being a tiny little private lane everybody charges up and down the lane at over 15-20 mph ?  crazy .!..
Its mostly my neighbours that speed as well.
I don't mean to be sexist but out of the 8 dwellings there are 15 drivers 7 female and 8 male. (incl me) out of these 5 men drive at practically a snails pace carefully and consideratly  The remaining 10 residents drive very quickly without any thought to children and animals and the 3 disabled residents. Of these 10   there are 3 that drive ridiculously fast and they are all female . Furthermore every one of these 3 females have a pet dog of their own and would obviously dread anything happening to their dog but obviously are complety unaware of the risk to the cats down the lane even though I have asked them to slow down many times.

Now make of this what you will but I live on the edge of my seat the whole day and night waiting for a screech of tyres outside my kitchen door. ( straight on to the lane) Both my cats are out the lane all the time dispite having a river, fields, gardens and woods out the back of the house !!!! 

So I guess the points that I am trying to make is its almost impossible to  predict where your cat will play and go . Dispite having a fantastic dream back garden both of them preferto hunt along the verge of the lane at the front where the cars are !  Secondly dspite moving to this quiet idyillic spot My Teddy got run over outside my front door 2 years ago and there are near misses every day.

I am finally coming to the conclusion that the only safe way is to fence in the garden to make a safe outdoor area which is ok if the cats grow up with it but difficult if they are used to roaming where they please. Unfortunatly I have a shared garden  too ( footpath right of way) so this option isn't open to me either.
I personally think it unkind to keep cats indoors but that is because I hate to see any animal caged. Some cats seem to take to it well however especially if they have been house cats since kittens. I think cats are like humans and each have a differant personality. I think some cats will never take to being kept indoors and will always fret to get out.

Sorry not sure if my ramblings have been any help really but I suppose what I'm trying to say is moving is not always the solution

[ccmacey]

I live on a small 30mph road, but it still doesn't stop people speeding up it. I let my cats out but live in fear of them being hurt, I'm soon going to cat proof my garden. My cats have always had free reign but I think their safety is more important that having a wander.

Another good reason to cat proof the garden is you will know where they are at all times and their not coming to any harm or fighting other cats.

My cats like to have a good wander, although I know their sitting in next doors garden I am constantly shouting them because I want to go to bed, they never come in and you have to wait up another 2 hours nackered. I never go to bed leaving them out.

So although I let my cats out at the moment I would say to anyone that was considering it not to, it just brings a whole load of new worries and over tired mornings.

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

Sorry Michelle  That's exactly why I'm having this dilemna, I'm erring towards a cat proofed garden, no matter how small.  In a way I'm lucky as they have never been out so they are not missing anything but a little piece of me wants to give them everything I possibly can, a huge piece of me finds that incredibly difficult though 

I would wait and see if they want to go out when they are older. If they are happy being indoors than thats great. However, if they are unhappy being kept indoors I would go for the cat proofed garden then Helen.

My lot were sooooo unhappy being kept in that i allow them to go out - daytime only and i keep an eye by calling and doing a head count every so often -

[Team Svartalfheims]

am wondering if it is cruel to give them such a tiny taste of the outside as like I said the gardens round here are miniscule.

Mine only have a small cat garden outside at the moment and they don't seem to mind (will be years before they have a huge garden lol). Even a small enclosed cat garden is better than no cat garden if you feel you would like them to have access to the outdoors.

I think everyone's idea of 'too close to a main road' is different. For some people it might be 30 metres and for others 1 mile might still be considered too close

[Tiggy's Mum]

Tough one Helen

I live in a quiet clu-de-sac and the road leading to the clu-de-sac is fairly quiet too , infront of my house is Woods and to the right of my house is fields but i have still lost 3 cats to RTA.

Sorry Michelle  That's exactly why I'm having this dilemna, I'm erring towards a cat proofed garden, no matter how small.  In a way I'm lucky as they have never been out so they are not missing anything but a little piece of me wants to give them everything I possibly can, a huge piece of me finds that incredibly difficult though 

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

Tough one Helen

I live in a quiet clu-de-sac and the road leading to the clu-de-sac is fairly quiet too , infront of my house is Woods and to the right of my house is fields but i have still lost 3 cats to RTA.

[Tiggy's Mum]

At the moment Lucas and Riley are indoor only for a variety of reasons: 1) They are too young to go out 2) I am too close to a busy road, it's only a 30 limit but is very busy and cars often go way too fast 3) The garden is a communal one and as such isn't suitable for cat proofing.

I am thinking about moving to somewhere with a garden for the boys and my first, gut reaction was to catproof the garden.   The boys are perfectly happy and content being indoor as they have never known any different but if I am able to offer them a SAFE extra dimension to their lives then I will do so.  The thing is I live in a new town so all the properties are new which generally means tiny gardens (would definitely be the case for the properties I'm looking at as am only looking at two bed properties).

Anyway, I was wondering how close is too close to a busy main road?  Am particularly aiming this Q at people who rehome cats as I would imagine you have a set criteria?   If I found a house which wasn't too close to a main road I would consider letting them have free roam.  It scares me silly just thinking about the dangers out there for them and I would much prefer to catproof the garden but am wondering if it is cruel to give them such a tiny taste of the outside as like I said the gardens round here are miniscule.