A couple questions about cat food and a senior cat.

[Desley (booktigger)]

One thing to bear in mind with the 'wait till the vet recommends something' route is that we see them more than our vet, and are more aware of what is normal - I knew when PEbbles was in pain with her leg cos she would only eat Gourmet Pearl and not HiLife - she was still eating though. And as Susanne says, you have a baseline to work off.

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

especially as Willow has started drinking a lot - knowing her its probably so she can pee a lot 

 

[Mark]

If my vet recommended a test I would consider it but he doesnt for cats that young unless there seems to be a good reason.

I'm not happy about them going through tests but I would rather nip anything in the bud than learn too late - especially as Willow has started drinking a lot - knowing her its probably so she can pee a lot  - but I would rather know.

[Annie]

Ah - bless him! 

Funnily enough that's not what the vet says 


Bought the kittens some James Wellbeloved today, so I hope that goes down well... Thanks for all the help 

[Nick (Peanut & Boo)]

I have only just noticed this thread so please forgive me if this has already been mentioned by somebody but have you checked his teeth lately.?

my Peanut eats his Iams religiously. He'll always eat the biscuits first before he touches any  wet food. he'll even ignore tuna or beef for his biscuits so when very occasionally he has gone off his biscuits I have learnt that its usually because he has a bad tooth or sore gums . its the first place I would check . Those biscuits are surprisingly hard. If he has any redness of the gums around his teeth he is likely to need a dental scale and polish and posibly extraction .

Like you I only recently  found out about Iams past animal testing history and I have thought long and hard about what to do, For the time being I am still buying them because Peanut won't swop to anything else but thats a topic for another thread.
 I know I'm a bit of a rebel lol but I do not accept anything that manufacturers say too lmuch to heart.
They are primarily looking to maximise profits after all. if they thoughtthat they could sell more food by producing seperate foods for female and male cats you can be sure they would do it . I would need some pretty convincing proof that adult biscuits were any worse or better for an 11 year old cat than senior . I should let him eat what he wants. He is obviously a healthy well cared for cat.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Ah - bless him!    I guess in that situation you need to weigh up the risks and benefits of having blood tests.  The benefit is that you might find out that he has elevated levels of something or other and can take action to try and prevent them getting any worse before he shows any signs of being unwell, the risk is that it might make the visit a lot more stressful for him (and the vet!).  No clear cut answer really - go with your gut feeling.  Or maybe ask the vet whether s/he thinks it would be worthwhile given how stressed he gets.

Jaffa gets quite stressed at the vet but he just hisses at the vet.  And once he's home it's all forgotten.

I agree re young cats, Gill, although there is a lot to be said for getting a baseline study done when they're fairly young so that you can see what is normal for a particular cat.  That way changes over time can be monitored.  For example, it would have been really useful to have had blood tests done on Jaffa 2-3 years ago so that I could see whether his results last year (high end of normal for kidney function) showed an increase or were normal for him.

[Annie]

  it doesn't do any harm (not talking about cats for whom it's a nightmare getting them to the vets, just your average cat who doesn't much like it but copes) and just might pick something up. 

Fluffy has the reputation for scratching up the vet and then running round the room with the needle still in his neck =S... He hates the vet, and he hides and soon as he sees the carrier, so maybe it would make a stressful visit all the more stressful.


I didn't think he was so old (but maybe that's because I'm comparing to our previous cat that lived to near 21), doesn't seem it to me, but he is classed as senior so obviously the concerns are there for him to carry on being healthy and happy.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

If my vet recommended a test I would consider it but he doesnt for cats that young unless there seems to be a good reason.

[Mark]

I told my vet mine are all coming up to 8 and he has made a note to do a "senior" exam in august

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

11 may not be old on the outside but it's getting old on the inside in terms of organ function.  Sadly, by the time most cats are taken to the vet showing signs of something like kidney failure it's already in the later stages.  I'm in favour of blood tests for cats of 9/10 +.  it doesn't do any harm (not talking about cats for whom it's a nightmare getting them to the vets, just your average cat who doesn't much like it but copes) and just might pick something up. 

[Rosella moggy]

I suppose I was really talking about the age I might start to think of annual blood testing which I think I've raised before.  I really wouldn't start testing for kidney probs etc in an 11 year old unless there were signs of a problem and vet recommended it.  With Tom being 17 I'm more inclined to investigate without specific signs if you get my drift. Not that I want to prick and poke the poor boy but his age, the fact that he is on Metacam for his arthritis (just started the cat version of drops tonight) and he is a vomit machine have tipped the balance in favour of annual blood tests.

I've no doubt at all that cats can develop kidney probs etc much earlier but it's all a balance thing really and blood tests not pleasant for a cat and not cheap either. I can't spend every waking moment worrying that they may develop various illnesses. I do that enough as it is lol.  I'd worry myself into an early grave and then who'd feed the little butter dears.

[Desley (booktigger)]

We will never know Gill, as we dont know what caused it - the point is, that while 11 isn't that old, for some cats, it simply is, as in humans. Some cats develop kidney issues at that age, and also younger, on the feline CRF site, there are cats under the age of 10 on there, and CRF is something you would normally expect in older cats.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I dont think 11 is old for any cat nowadays. Its very sad about Pebbles indeed and i was so sad when she went to the Bridge but dont think it was age related, was it?

My birmans are coming up to 14 now and sasa up to 10. quite amazing really cos was thinking how young they all werre, even Misa is about 6 yrs young with a kitten attitude !

[Desley (booktigger)]

Dont forget though, that for some cats, 11 is old - Pebbles was still 11 when she died.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Yes 17 is a good age.......hope he is OK 

Must try moving a waterbowl but where too so I dont trip over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Desley (booktigger)]

That stems from their ancestors Rosella, they wouldn't eat and drink in the same place, they would always be separate. Might explain why the one waterbowl in the house that is nowhere near food is the one most liked, and Tiger will walk past 2 bowls to get to it!!

[Rosella moggy]

I do not agree with blood tests unless there is a suspicion that there is something wrong but thats just my opinion. I also do not feed my older cats senior food and think that cats do best on the food they like and will eat, I believe that chopping and changing what they eat does not do them favours unless there is a real reason for it.  But we all gotta do what we think is best and like with everything else their are many opinions here 

Wholeheartedly agree Gill for a cat of only 11 years. He's only a young un. Having said that, I think I am going for geriatric blood tests for Tom as he is much older (17). He has been a vomit machine since he was only a few months old so difficult to know if he's ill or not at times and I really want to be forewarned. I don't feed him senior food. He just eats what he likes.  One thing I learned recently Annie and I suspect it's true from observing our cats and neighbours cats, cats seem to like their water to be in a container quite a way from their food. We therefore have a large water bowl in bedroom and all 3 three seem to prefer drinking water out of that, neighbours cats likewise. Very odd but true.

[Desley (booktigger)]

I agree with that Gill - when I had Ginger and SNowy, neither would eat Whiskas, so not sure what happened to the 9 out of 10 cats prefer Whiskas!! I remember once, I was trying new foods (Snowy was very fussy due to her liver probs), and I bought one of everything, gave her Asda Tiger in gravy, she wolfed it and asked for more, gave her Whiskas in gravy the day after, she looked at me as if to say 'you expect me to eat this ****??'. They would both eat Whiskas Senior Supermeat, but not adult Whiskas!!

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Mine dont like whiskers so not that highly palatable 

Dont they call many of the pills palatable 

[Desley (booktigger)]

Hmm, my vet nurse told me last year that cats dont lose weight with age, like humans they tend to put it on round their waist, so senior food had less something that would stop them putting too much weight on. The senior dry I have to hand doesn't help much though!!

[Mark]

I thought that until recently but I looked into it because I started feeding Kylie senior and as she's overweight, I checked the fat content. It is actually higher fat but lower phosphorus. The reasoning being that older cats eat less generally and need higher calorie food to stop them losing weight. Thats how it is with dry so I would imagine its the same for wet.

I haven't got a regular whiskas pouch but the senior in Jelly is 5% oil.

Here's an item about it

Studies by Whiskas have shown that a cat's ability to digest the protein, fat and energy in food gradually declines as they get older and it becomes significantly lower in the majority of cats over ten years of age. This means that most senior cats need to eat more food to fulfil their dietary requirements or to receive a diet specifically formulated to meet their needs. All these factors, plus issues such as the cat's breed and state of health, are taken into account when creating the Whiskas Senior lifestage products.

Abigail Stevenson of the Waltham Centre, comments, "Research undertaken by Whiskas shows that a cat's ability to digest its food declines over the years. We know that cats tend to lose body weight and coat condition as they get older. Because of this, we have specially designed Whiskas Senior lifestage products to be energy dense and highly palatable and have also added antioxidants and sunflower oil to keep older cats healthier for longer."

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I do not agree with blood tests unless there is a suspicion that there is something wrong but thats just my opinion.

I also do not feed my older cats senior food and think that cats do best on the food they like and will eat, I believe that chopping and changing what they eat does not do them favours unless there is a real reason for it.

But we all gotta do what we think is best and like with everything else their are many opinions here 

[Desley (booktigger)]

I  normally feed senior food, but if they are underweight or can't afford to lose much weight, I dont, as senior food has less calories in. Also bear in mind that senior food is like kitten food, cats have lived in the past without it. For dry food, I would feed James Wellbeloved or HiLife (latter harder to get hold of and dont do 2kg bags). i would do yearly blood tests and 6 monthly checkups for seniors, although 11 is still quite young.

[Millys Mum]

The ones I've heard floating about on here were Royal Canin, Purina and Hill's

If your going for ethical foods than bop Hills off your list, the worst offenders are Iams, Eukanuba & Hills.

Obviously dry foods have moved on, but the vet told me that almost all the cats he'd seen with liver or kidney failure had been fed dry food.

I dont doubt thats true but probably 90% of cats in the uk will be fed some dry food!
A while back someone posted that cats fed dry food are clinically dehydrated.

Have you tried him on senior biscuits? I always think with oldies its better for them eat what they like and be happy then have a diet they hate but may extend their life.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

I'd agree with it too    But the downside is that feeding that sort of diet requires a fair bit of knowledge to get the balance right.  Some people think they can just give meat alone, or maybe meat and a bit of liver and that will do, forgetting about bone etc.  It's not easy to get right.  Jaffa loves raw meat.  Downside is that since I've been giving him pieced of raw meat to snack on and commercial food with more meat in it he's become a pain at mealtimes if I'm eating meat!

[Gillian Harvey]

I do have to say my knowledge is based on stuff I learnt 20 years ago. I was told, by a vet I respected, that a varied diet containing fresh 'non pet food', i.e. fresh fish, minced meat, offal, balanced with standard cat food was the best way to go.

I'd agree with that, but then I'm biased, because thats what I feed mine! 

[swampmaxmum]

Hello Annie,

the beasties are so tricky to feed as what one likes, the other hates

Mine did very well on Royal Canin Senior S/O Kidney and Osteo for over 10 yr old neutered cats (who made up that title  ?) which is the most widely used senior nosh in France. It also comes in a canned version (foil actually) but that didn't go down as well.  In the UK, the vets have to look it up as it isn't widely known but I can vouch for their very good health on it and they loved it.
Haven't tried James Wellbeloved but think AFAIK they are also RC ie Waltham? RC is also cheaper than Hills which is always good

[Annie]

He has no problems that we know about..

Cats can hide illness remarkably well, so it is wise for cat especially when they are older to have an annual MOT which may include bloods.

I am going to talk to the vet when we take Sam in next week about checking fluffy out, but I've got a feeling he'll say wait until he's due in...  I know they get checked for obvious stuff (external) when they go in for their booster but I can't recall him taking any bloods or anything...

 

Just to clarify:
They are not on an all dry food diet. The reason I asked about dry food in particular was because we don't want to feed them iams dry anymore and are looking for the best replacement. They also have pouches and plenty of water available to them.

[Ela]

Obviously dry foods have moved on, but the vet told me that almost all the cats he'd seen with liver or kidney failure had been fed dry food.

To be fair I can honestly say we have  over the years had just as many cats with liver and kidney problems that have been fed wet food as those that have been fed dried.

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

I do have to say my knowledge is based on stuff I learnt 20 years ago. I was told, by a vet I respected, that a varied diet containing fresh 'non pet food', i.e. fresh fish, minced meat, offal, balanced with standard cat food was the best way to go.

Obviously dry foods have moved on, but the vet told me that almost all the cats he'd seen with liver or kidney failure had been fed dry food. I've always fed biscuits very sparingly - perhaps half a handful in addition to meat for a meal a few times a week.

Perhaps someone with greater knowledge will step forward and correct me? But I'd like to point out that at least one poor soul we've seen PTS with organ failure had been fed 100% on dried food. 

[Ela]

He has no problems that we know about..

Cats can hide illness remarkably well, so it is wise for cat especially when they are older to have an annual MOT which may include bloods.

[Annie]

Thanks..

He has no problems that we know about.. But we're taking one of our other cats to the vet next week for a booster so shall ask about getting him in for the blood test..

I did wonder how neccesary it was that he eat senior food, but I'm a worrier so worrying about him not eating it took over, 

He has wet food in the morning and then dry the rest of the day (same goes for the rest of them)... He doesn't really eat much of it though...

Thanks, you've been a real help   Thanks for the food suggestions too!

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Does Fluffy have any health issues?    Has he had any blood tests done recently?  If not it would be worth having a senior blood panel carried out so that you can see whether he has any issues with kidneys etc.  If he doesn't have any problems I wouldn't worry about him not eating senior food.  Senior food tends to be lower in phosphorus, among other things, which is important for cats with kidney failure.   Most cats of that age will have some impairment of kidney function but not necessarily a diagnosis of kideny failure.   Jaffa is 10 and he has kidney values that are at the high end of normal so I feed him a mixture of adult food and some senior food (mainly adult) but I try to feed him adult foods that are low(ish) in phosphorus.  And he has all wet food.

Given his age, and the fact that he's a male, I would advise adding some wet food to his diet if he's not already eating some (and if he will eat it) as water is particularly important for males since they're more prone to urinary crystals and blockages than females, and it's also important for cats with kidney problems.

Royal canin is a pretty good dry food.  You might also want to look at James Wellbeloved.

[Annie]

I hope this is the right section, but I figured it's to do with health right?

So first question or problem is, Fluffy is an 11 yr old male, and he refuses to eat senior food, I have no idea, but he knows it's different and decides that it isn't for him and goes for Sam and Susie's instead. Tried feeding him seperatly but he just won't eat then, and he doesn't eat a lot anyway so he's a worry already. Have now tried putting a bit in his food to introduce it gradually, but won't touch it. We've been trying for a couple of years. Anyone know why this may be or how we could solve this?

The other thing is what brand of dry food do you recommend? They have been eating iams, but after hearing about the company (it's amazing what things you learn on cat forums that you were just not aware of before) we don't want to fund them any longer, and I also think there must be better stuff out there. And as we're on the last bag of adult food and half way down the kitten lot, I think we need to decide what to get them so we can introduce it gradually. The ones I've heard floating about on here were Royal Canin, Purina and Hill's.. Cost isn't really an issue, we just want whats best for them .

Thankyou

Annie