does anyone know......

[CurlyCatz]

also i think the likes of go cat may be of slightly better quality than it was 10 years ago, certainly nowadays they do a "complete" variety aswell as the normal (and all they used to do) dried which was not complete.

[lilycat]

Thanks Susanne, I'll certainly have a good look at those 

I can see where Kally is coming from...I'd love to be able to give my lovelies the very best, rinky-dinky food that there is, but at present I just find it difficult to afford, so I do the best that I can within my budget. I'm on a student bursary and, at present, the vets bills are giving me a bit of a hammering so I'd rather make sure I can afford Imogen's meds and cardiac ultrasound.

Still, once I qualify, they most certainly will have better dinners, more suitable for cats of distinction 

In the meantime they're being very patient with me 

Most of the time.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

I don't want to open up a can of worms, but I'm curious on the wet/dry feeding thingy; I was under the impression that dry was best, mainly because of the effect wet food has on the dentals. 

lilycat - if you want to read a few articles on why some of us prefer wet food you might find these interesting.  They explain why I choose wet food over dry.   Just a few opinions.

http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=whycatsneedcannedfood

http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=doesdryfoodcleantheteeth

http://www.catinfo.org/

http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/bpo_ch4.php

http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm

Like lilycat, I don't want to stir up anything, but just wanted to point out to anyone who would like to feed more wet food and/or better quality food but cant' afford it - zooplus sell bozita and animonda - 2 good quality wet foods that work out at less than 20p per 100g.

Happy birthday for tomorrow, Kally, and good look with getting through to the neighbour about the milk.  Hopefully she will take note if the vet writes a letter.

[Ela]

dry was best, mainly because of the effect wet food has on the dentals.

That is not necessarily the case. We have just as many cats who are fed dried needing dentals as those on wet diets.

[Kally]

i would feed them on a better brand but as i have said before i can not afford it and i have been told by my vets that go cat is ok to feed them but it isnt as good as the more expensive brands obviously please dont urge me to change brands unless someone else is willing to pay for the more expensive food for me i cant feed them on it cassie is extremely fussy weve only just got her onto dry food and gill i know what you mean as i have said before up until iwas atleast 13 i thought that you were supposed to feed them milk you also have to bare in mind at the moment its a bit hectic here im looking after a rabbit that was dumped on my doorstep and i have to keep her seperate from cassie would take her to the sanctuary but their full up i know coz i clean those rabbits out on a tuesday the only problem is Ellie(the bunny) keeps knocking everything of the computer desk and starts nibbling it right im off ive got an exam tomorrow afternoon

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

Hi Kally,
One of my vets says that Dry food is better than wet food, this is because it doesnt stick to the cats teeth and cause decay etc

More importantly though,
I personally would NOT feed my cats on Go-cat or Whiskas dry food (and i know that a vet would not recommend using either)
Both are a cheap supermarket food.
If you want your cats to be on Dry food please consider using a good quality brand.

Michelle x

[lilycat]

Forgot to say...my pusscats prefer go-cat - it's just down to their own preferences. Pointless getting them something more expensive if they don't like it or it makes them  . I did try mine on Whiskas once but Basil went all exorcist on me and kept throwing up.  

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

 I am pleased to hear that your vet is going to write to the lady cos hopefully that will do the trick. I think milk allergies to not occur to lots of people cos one always thinks of a cat and and a saucer of milk . I did not know then that there was such a thing.

When my first cat turned up the first thing I gave her to drink was milk, never occcured to me to give her water.

But have been around this site and its predecessor for a long time now and there is so much knowledge but in terms of food I believe you feed what you can afford and what your cat will eat.  I know many here feel that high quantity meat food or raw food is best but my cats dont like any of it or human  meat or fish. I mean meat of fish we eat 

So my 4 live on felix jelly pouches and two sorts of biscuits and in the hotter weather they do not seem keen on the wet food at all.

[lilycat]

Happy B'Day for Friday  :bday:

I don't want to open up a can of worms, but I'm curious on the wet/dry feeding thingy; I was under the impression that dry was best, mainly because of the effect wet food has on the dentals. I have tried to brush my lots teeth in the past and..well...lets just say that flavoured or non-flavoured, the toothpaste didn't go down well - lots on the furniture, not much on the old pearlies. They even had dental problems while they were on the t/d!

Mmmm...They get about half and half wet/dry but I might gradually increase the amount of wet, decrease the dry and see how they get on.

They might like it better and what can it hurt to try something new    

[CurlyCatz]

i missed all this thread sorry.

re the old lady it will be hard to break her out of something she's probably done all her life, what about suggesting she used "cat milk" instead ???
You could exaggerate aswell and tell her the cat WILL become very ill if it has an allergy and she keeps giving the normal cows milk.  OR i have been led to believe GOATS MILK is acceptable for cats (now i cant confirm that personally but a few sources have told me )

On the wet dry food debate...I'd first like to say vets DO get nutritional studys, just like nurses do but i should imagine in more depth as with most other things however i dont  think its something they delve into once graduating,  I myself have certificates in animal nutritiion done post vn grad and by feeding animals wet food it will NOT under any circumstances "damage a liver" (i believe force feeding vast amounts of water can kill just like it can to a human but that isnt the case of wet food)  What the others have said is true BUT if you know your own cats, are sure they drink plenty I personally think its an individual choice..i say this being a cat owner where 1 of my cats is about 90% dry food fed, the others are mixed, I have no doubt my cats could be on a "better" diet but i also know what they are getting is perfectly OK..plus many cats who reach ripe old ages fed on the "lesser quality" cat foods so dont go beating yourself up about that. 
I also learn alot from this forum, you know some people actually research stuff really thoroughly and can learn a vast amount that vets just dont have the time for as nutrition in the healthy animal is secondary to the sick .. also with so many premium brand complete foods for various life stages why bother..its all there sitting on the shelves for them 
oh and happy birthday for friday 

[Kally]

oooo i forgot to say its my birthday on friday!!!!!!

[Desley (booktigger)]

I wasn't criticising you actually, but I used to think it was OK to feed my cats whatever was cheapest in the supermarket, with no thought as to ingredients. Thanks to forums, I know better, so do share my knowledge as that is the main point of forums - and yes, my vet has also asked me for advice on cats, esp on the behaviour side. I had an overweight foster with cystitis - one vet recommended dry c/d, he got cystitis while on it, so I took him to another vet, they gave wet food only and cystaid - and he rarely suffered. Both professionals, and both with years of experience. My vet knows I do my research though and will question her if I am unsure as it is different to what I have read - and I do stump her with health issues on a regular basis!!
I haven't heard about too much water affecting their liver - although cats with liver problems do drink more than 'healthy' cats, and my vet gave sub-q fluids to my cat with liver probs. Too little water can affect their health though.

[Millys Mum]

I think the collars with a warning on is the best way to go. If they dont stop id try a short letter from your vet through their door.

they do not need all that water all it does is knackers the liver

Thats something iv never heard so will ask my vet next time i see him, hes a feline specialist so i take his professional opinion.

[DaveD]

I've learnt a huge amount since I started going onto forums, precicely because there are so many different opinions to choose from. People often tell of their own experiences with their own cats, and we can pick and choose the advice that most closely chimes with our own. I have three cats, all very different, and often different advice on the same thread will apply to different cats, even when it seems contradictory.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Desley was not criticising you Kally, nor was Susanne on your choice, they were simply giving you another point of view that differs to the professionals you speak of. 

  Absolutely.  No criticism meant at all of anyone who chooses to feed a diet of dry food to their cat.  No 2 cats are identical and there isn't one ideal food for all cats, especially those with health problems who may have differeing needs.

all i can see on here is a loud of people who doubt professionals i have been on here before and seen it happen and all i can say is if you doubt the professionals constantly then your   cause at the end of the day they are the ones that have been learning for 7-9yrs on what is best for your animal

Bear in mind that vets get next to no training in nutrition so although they may well be the experts in the diagnosis and treatment of disease, they're not necessarily the best people to advise on diet (in a healthy cat - not talking about cats with chronic illnesses).

I think it's important to remember that these so called professionals dont' agree among themselves, so who do we believe?  certainly if my cat is taken ill in the middle of the night and I rush him to the vets I'm not going to be questioning their advice or opinions.  But if my cat has a chronic condition of any sort I'm going to take on board what the vet says then do my own research and discuss it with the vet, questioning what he says if necessary.  Just as I'd do with my own health and my own doctor.   With nutrition I'm certainly going to do my own research and base my decision on what to feed on what that research supports rather than what my vet - who may have learnt everything he knows about nutrition from a pet food manufacturer - says.  That's just my choice and the way in which I tend to approach most things in life.   A lot of vets these days feel that dry food is implicated in diseases such as diabetes and urinary crystals.  There are reseach findings that support those opinions too.  But others will tell you that dry food is good - mainly saying that it is beneficial for teeth (something I don't believe).  It's up to us to decide what advice we want to take and like Ruth says, we all have to take into account our cats' likes and dislikes, availablitiy, cost etc.  The best food in the world is no good if it causes an upset stomach.

Again - no offence meant and I don't mean to imply that anyone who feeds dry food doesn't care for their cat.  I'm just personally convinced that wet is the way to go   And that's from someone who told their work colleague when she got a cat several years ago that dry food was better than wet    I've changed my mind!

[ems]

Hi Kally,

Just wondering if you have had any luck with the leaflets for your neighbour?

Seeing as that was the original post 

ems
xxxx

[Ela]

Please don't  get upset when people do not agree with you,  It is a forum and obviously everyone has different views.

We can only post about the experiences we personally have had. As posted I have had far more success with dried food, but when others say they favour wet food I have to accept that they feel it is best for their cat.

at the end of the day they are the ones that have been learning for 7-9yrs on what is best for your animal

I appreciate vets are professionals, but sometimes they do refer clients to rescues for advice on certain topics, so they must have some faith in us.

[Kittybabe (Ruth)]

The choice to feed only dry or only wet is dependent on cat and owner and budgets alike. Desley was not criticising you Kally, nor was Susanne on your choice, they were simply giving you another point of view that differs to the professionals you speak of.  That is indeed what forums are about, so no need to be harsh. Thanks

[Ela]

but i have been advised by professionals that dry food is the best to feed them on as wet food has way too much water content its made up of 75-80% water

Whilst I cannot agree with this comment wet food has too much water, I must say that over the years I and the fosterers have many cats that are only fed dried food,  Iams, Science Diet, Burns etc, Only the other day I was emptying the contents if one container of Iams to place it somewhere else (using my hands as there was only a  bit, but when I had finished my hands were almost as if I had oiled them, had  it  been the makes that  are considered cheaper (but not really, especially if you buy the better quality in large bags) my hands would not have been like that and just felt gritty. I and the fosterers have in care some cats that if the have a mouthful of wet they would be able to  through an eye of a needle. Yet if kept on dried have no problems. We have the same kinds of health problems in cats with all three types of diet, (wet, dried, wet/dry,)  I think it is just a matter of finding  out what is best for our own cat and sticking to it.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

im not wanting to get into an argument but i have been advised by professionals that dry food is the best to feed them on as wet food has way too much water content its made up of 75-80% water

I respect your opinion, Kally, but I'd be very sceptical of the "professionals" who told you that dry food is best.  Like Desley says, wet is closer to what a cat would eat in the wild (a mouse is approx 75% water) and dry food is purely an invention of humans that is cheap to make and easy to store.  Cats being desert dwelling animal originally, dont' have a strong thirst mechanism and so don't tend to drink enough water as they are designed to take in water with their food.  If you think about it I'm sure you'll see that it's just not logical that wet food would have too much water.  Desley has provided a link to one article, here is another that I've always found interesting (by a vet)

http://www.catinfo.org/#Cats_Need_Plenty_of_Water_With_Their_Food

But you're right that everyone has to feed what they think is right and what they can afford, especially when it comes to feeding strays (and some cats will refuse to eat wet food).  Although you'll find that you need to feed less of the better quality dry foods so it's not always cost effective to feed the likes of go cat and whiskas.

Sorry if I've offended you - that's not my intention.  Just trying to point out that there is a lot of evidence now that wet food is very beneficial to cats and I always feel that knowledge is power, even if it does sometimes makes decision making harder.  Before I started hanging out on cat forums and doing online research into feline nutrition I thought that dry food was good for them.  I've since changed my mind and switched my cats over from part wet part dry to all wet.

[Desley (booktigger)]

You might want to read these:

http://www.chaptanservices.com/purrs/index.php?topic=4181.0

http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=whycatsneedcannedfood

Sadly a lot of vets think that dry food is better, when realistically it is the furthest away from a cats natural diet - if you think of what htey would naturally eat, their food is mainly moisture, as they are descended from teh desert and needed to get their water from their food. I wasn't trying to put you down, I know people can't afford to feed expensive food, was just trying to point out that GoCat isn't any better than Whiskas, I think they have similar ingredients. There are foods that aren't that much more expensive that are better quality.

[Kally]

im not wanting to get into an argument but i have been advised by professionals that dry food is the best to feed them on as wet food has way too much water content its made up of 75-80% water and i know go cat isnt the best ive admited that but not all of us can afford the best so please dont put people who feed there cats on it down cause it doesnt mean they love their cats less than u do and wen it comes to the strays outside my house whether you are at front or back theres plenty of water i always make sure that the large dog dishes are full especially in the summer obviously the debate about which is best dry or wet is just simply a matter of opinion but i also have 2 cats that have problems with wet food (runs if fed any wet) so for me dry is definately best

[Desley (booktigger)]

Just a little point - GoCat isn't any better than Whiskas, and dry food isn't teh best if that is all they are getting, and certainly not if you are feeding a stray, as they might not have access to water. Collars with a message on is a good idea, it might still get ignored though, I have neighbours that take it upon themselves to feed the cats in the area, despite them having homes, and ignore owners when they say not to!!

[Kally]

catjane that is exactly what i have said but few ppl i know have been saying well every cat has a second home but the point is if the cat has an owner and looks well kept etc then why feed it?? ppl should be taught that if an animal is fed too much then it will get sick personally i think they should teach some proper basics of animal care in schools not just primary but high school too cause to be honest pretty much up until i was 13 i thought milk was good for cats admitidly i feed cats that im not sure have owners but i dont feed them stuff that is really bad for them i feed them go cat dry food just like i feed it to my furbabes i know its not the best but its better for them then whiskas ive decided when ive got the money im going to order some collars from kittycollars saying allergic to milk then maybe ppl will get the picture

[DaveD]

You could print it at the library. Id be having serious, stern words with this woman!

Actually you might find the leaflets at the library.

[ccmacey]

You could print it at the library. Id be having serious, stern words with this woman!

[Catjane]

This sort of thing makes me absolutely furious!  It's one thing to feed a stray, but quite another to feed a cat that is KNOWN to own somebody!  And on top of that to have been told that the cat is lactose intolerant    Argh!  Don't get me started!

Hope you manage to convince the woman that she's causing harm to your brother's cat and that she'll lay off.

[Kally]

i did ask at the vets aswell well 2or3 actually and none of them have leaflets that explain it properly

[Kally]

i do but the cartridge has ran out and doesnt look like i will be getting new one any time soon

[DaveD]

Do you have a printer? There's a leaflet here: http://www.pethealthcouncil.co.uk/assets/leaflets/PHC_Nutrition%20for%20Cats%20and%20Dogs.pdf
and another here: http://www.cats.org.uk/catcare/leaflets/550_feeding.pdf
Otherwise, you can usually pick up leaflets from a vets practice.

[Kally]

where i can get a leaflet about cats being lactose intolerant because there is an elderly lady living across from me that keeps giving my brother cat ham and milk and every time she has milk she throws up ive tried talking to her but she keeps saying oh i dont think its anything i give her i think its when the flies get to it and because that cat always walks away from me when i go up to her she was trying to say accuse me of neglecting her and she tried to say that my cats are too thin now just to clear that up my brothers cat doesnt like me because she knows she cant get run rings round me and my cats are slim because they are very athletic ( you should see what it is like trying to get them in for the night) im hoping that by putting the leaflet through her door she will pay attention cause if cassie gets sick again bcoz of that i will be sending her the bill dont care who it is if they are responsible for mine or my brothers cats getting sick i will send them the bill