New cat bullying elderly cat

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Yay!!  Sounds like you're getting there, Emma. 

[emmmy_lou]

I THINK things are slowly starting to improve...

Emma is coming out for food more when we are in the kitchen, even when T is there. She is back to sleeping on my pillow sometimes when we bring her upstairs (which she didn't do every night anyways)

T still goes for her occasionally, but I do think it is getting less. I know they say you can't punish cats, but when she does I take her to the hallway and close the downstairs door. I do think she knows she has done wrong.

I keep saying to OH I do think we need to give T more attention as well. I used to regularly sleep in our spare room when we got Emma before we introduced her, but he thinks we shouldn't be doing this?Thoughts?

[Judecat (Paula)]

The laser toys are amazing, very naughty with Pip, if you shine it up the walls she tries to climb them.

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Emma, it might seem like a small(ish) step bit its a really encoraging one.  It would make sense if Tabitha is expendin energy and Emma is telling her to m8nd her manners.     If Emma reasserts her authority, hopefully Tabitha will be more respectful and the two will work out a way to share their space. 

[emmmy_lou]

Hi again, things seem to be kind of improving.

Emma seems to be gaining a lot more confidence when Tabitha is there. Last night when I was lying on the sofa, Emma was perched on the back of it. Tabitha popped her head up, Emma gave her a growl, and Tabitha retreated. Emma has also been staying out for her food when T is there instead of waiting until she has disappeared.

Is there any pattern to when she does it or is it all the time? Are you able to distract Tabitha when she is bothering Emma?

There doesn't seem to be a time pattern, but I do think it is when she wants to play and have a crazy half hour. I had been distracting her with a toy, but probably not for long enough to be honest. She is mental, likes to play chase and thunders around the house, up and down the stairs 

Trouble with toys is the only one I've found she likes is a laser. She watches, but doesn't seem to know what to do with da bird?!

We have let her outside a couple of times now, she hasn't ventured out of the back garden, but the first time she was in and out for maybe 2 hours chasing spiders. She was zonked that night!

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[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Is there any pattern to when she does it or is it all the time?  Just asking because cats definitely sense weakness in another cat and will exploit that, then if it's exacerbated by the weaker cat responding like prey it can be a vicious circle.  Kito can be a pain to Mosi at times but in his case it's just when he's bored and a bit hyper, and I have no worries leaving them alone together when I'm out.  It's a combination of wanting to play and wanting to dominate but Mosi (if he's not in the mood) will hiss and run away, only to be chased by Kito who will jump on him and pin him down.  However, Kito is easily distracted with toys and once he's calmed down he leaves Mosi be.  Then of course there's the fact that it's odds on whether Mosi will run away or actually be the one bothering Kito to play!  So not the same situation but was just wondering whether Tabitha wanting to play and having unspent energy may play a part?  Are you able to distract TYabitha when she is bothering Emma?

[Rosella moggy]

I could have sworn same as Sue Desley but I've found both views online.  I'm wondering if shape has changed so they do now fit?  Manufacturers advise against interchanging though of course.

I haven't used Feliway for a good long time now as Sheila found Pet Remedy worked better so we now put up with the Pet Remedy odour with plugins upstairs and downstairs.

Best of luck Emma 

[Desley (booktigger)]

Thanks everyone!

Of course I know that Emma has to take priority in the situation.

Someone else had recommended Zyklene, I might try it - she is very boisterous (more so than when she was in the cafe).

I have the Pet Remedy spray, but not the plug in, so might try it when the Feliway runs out. Do you know if the Pet remedy fits in the Feliway plug ins??? Probably not....!

A hitch has been discovered in the upstairs/ downstairs plan - Tabitha worked out the cat flap when she needed to!

Rosella, she had never been outdoors, I have had her out a couple of times on a harness which she doesn't really like wearing. The wind seemed to frighten her quite a bit!!!  I might just bite the bullet and let her out without it, I think it would be good for her to expend some energy outdoors.

I did hear on Saturday after I posted this that when Tabitha went back to the cafe after we fostered her (over a year ago) it did take her a while to re-integrate with the others, although what 'a while' is I haven't determined!

I tried another suggestion on Sunday from a cat groomer which was to take one of them into her room (I chose Dexter as he's the most easy going) for 10 minutes, I gave them both some treats and they played a little. Well, Dexter sat on the chest of drawers and lifted his paw up to bat the feather (he's lazy when it comes to playing). The idea was to try and teach her acceptable behaviour. At one point she jumped up at Dexter, who batted her away, and someone - am not sure who or both - had a little hiss.

I'll let you know of any progress... Thanks.

I was given a pet remedy refill and sure it fit my feliway plug.

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Boisterous = returning confidence.  A good thing which we just need to find a safe outlet for.

Zylkene is brilliant stuff.  I don t think alas that Feliway and Pet Remedy plug ins are interchangeable.  I gave our feliway one away but seem to recall it was a different shape.

[emmmy_lou]

Thanks everyone!

Of course I know that Emma has to take priority in the situation.

Someone else had recommended Zyklene, I might try it - she is very boisterous (more so than when she was in the cafe).

I have the Pet Remedy spray, but not the plug in, so might try it when the Feliway runs out. Do you know if the Pet remedy fits in the Feliway plug ins??? Probably not....!

A hitch has been discovered in the upstairs/ downstairs plan - Tabitha worked out the cat flap when she needed to!

Rosella, she had never been outdoors, I have had her out a couple of times on a harness which she doesn't really like wearing. The wind seemed to frighten her quite a bit!!!  I might just bite the bullet and let her out without it, I think it would be good for her to expend some energy outdoors.

I did hear on Saturday after I posted this that when Tabitha went back to the cafe after we fostered her (over a year ago) it did take her a while to re-integrate with the others, although what 'a while' is I haven't determined!

I tried another suggestion on Sunday from a cat groomer which was to take one of them into her room (I chose Dexter as he's the most easy going) for 10 minutes, I gave them both some treats and they played a little. Well, Dexter sat on the chest of drawers and lifted his paw up to bat the feather (he's lazy when it comes to playing). The idea was to try and teach her acceptable behaviour. At one point she jumped up at Dexter, who batted her away, and someone - am not sure who or both - had a little hiss.

I'll let you know of any progress... Thanks.

[Frances]

Sorry to hear about Evie , I remember when you got her.

As long as she is happy with the arrangement I think keeping Emma as an “upstairs” cat is probably the best solution.  I did something similar when I had two elderly “lodgers” – they had all of upstairs during the day but slept in their own room at night when my three (who had all of downstairs and the garden during the day) could come up and have a sniff around.

Tabitha may well calm down a bit as she settles (or she may, like my Eleanor, always be a bit ummm sprited ).  Keeping them apart – and effectively stretching out any future reintroduction – shouldn’t do either of them any harm.

Boys are generally so much easier don't ya think?   

Oh yes

[Rosella moggy]

Tabitha the tabby is certainly a young beauty    Our Elsa is coming up to 3 years old (a tortie) and like Tabitha is very self assured.  We have 7 cats so she's similar in that way too to Tabitha's former circumstances.

I'd say Bob is about the most dominant here now .... except for Elsa that is who gives him a good run for his money.  She's out most of the time during the day and locked in with her brother overnight so Bob gets a break. 

It's very difficult managing a multicat household sometimes but, like others, I do think Emma must take priority in all this due to her age and she came before Tabitha.  Your OH's idea of allowing Emma the freedom of a safe place upstairs sounds a good way to go.  Fingers crossed she takes a good long while to figure out the catflap.  Zylkene might help too to take the edge of her "exuberance" 

Tabitha will doubtless settle down as she grows older.  Does she have outdoor access yet?

Boys are generally so much easier don't ya think?   

[Lyn (Slugsta)]

How could that sweet, adorable kitty possibly cause trouble? 

Kay has given some great advice. Like her, I also suspect that Tabitha has been used to being at the bottom of the totem-pole and either sees this as an opportunity for change or simply thinks she has to assert herself to get what she wants/needs.

I think you are right in saying that Emma acts like prey so Tabitha sees her as such which, of course, is a vicious cycle 

Giving Emma her own, safe space seems like the way to go, especially as she can't gain the advantageous high ground due to her infirmity. As Kay says, Emma just wants a quiet life now.

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Right hand is boogered.

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Feliway.  Trying to type with left hand but its not that easy. 

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

So sorry to hear Tabitha is creating issues, Emma.

Sound advice from Kay, I feel.  May also be worth using zylkene for Emma and Tabitha and maybe alternate Geliway with Pet Remedy?

Cats, eh?  Easy, eh?   

[Kay and Penny]

I don't think a 17 year old female is going to bond with a feisty new madam whatever you do - all she will want is to feel secure in her familiar surroundings, and I do feel you owe it to her to put her needs first, especially as she knows she can't run away so easily these days - and I suspect Tabitha was some way down in the pecking order when living with 7 other cats, but now sees a chance to assert herself, with Emma at least

the two boys have each other, and have been with you longer, and that may help them keep Tabitha in check so I would let her have access to them, and let her get on with making friends with them - or not

if Emma doesn't need access to outdoors, then giving her sole run upstairs might well work, and that will mean presumably she will always have your company at night, which might be enough for her

[emmmy_lou]

A pic of the little monster!

[emmmy_lou]

Hi, apologies for lack of interaction on Purrs for quite a while!

To give you the background:-

We have 2 siblings, Denzel & Dexter both just turned 9 who we have had from being kittens, an elderly cat Emma who is about 17 yrs old we have had just over a year. We did have Evie who was about 5 and a half, we had her from being about a year old, but sadly she died in June after being hit by a car. They were all pretty happy and got along fine.

We said we weren't going to get another cat, but a cat called Tabitha came up for adoption from a cat cafe, I have known her from being a kitten and have fostered her previously although she didn't meet any of our cats as it was only for a couple of weeks and she was confined to a pen while recovering from knee surgery. I couldn't resist giving her a try with Denzel, Dexter and Emma.

Tabitha is 2 and a half, and has lived with 7 other cats.

We kept Tabitha in the spare room for the first week, then slowly started introducing her to our cats. I wouldn't usually do it so quick but she was used to living with other cats, and ours are used to randoms coming in the house looking for food!!!

She is fine with Denzel & Dexter, but when she gets her eye on Emma, she makes a beeline for her, pounces and batters her  There is no proper wailing or biting, but Emma retreats into the bottom of the cat tree, or under the bed and won't come out for hours.

Well, I say she's fine with D&D, but she will go up to them in their beds and get right up to their face and hiss! Denzel gives her a growl back, and Dexter couldn't care less!!! 

We have Feliway friends plugged in in the 3 main rooms where the cats are. I have tried a calming spot on for Tabitha, and also followed Jackson Galaxy's advice re distracting her with a toy, but as soon as play stops (unless I take her into another room and stay in there) she goes for Emma again straight away. I've also tried some scent swapping.

I am now separating them into two different parts of the house a lot of the time, especially when feeding Emma. Emma still has access to wherever she likes as there is a cat flap on the door to downstairs and Tabitha doesn't know how to use one!!!

There are 3 cat trees spread about the house, a wall with some shelves up to a bed on the wall and various beds around the house. There are 4 litter trays (Denzel & Dexter toilet outside) in various rooms, Tabitha has her own food bowl and water in the spare room, although she has access to others in the house most of the time - she isn't fussed on wet food, tends to just eat the dried.

Am not sure if Tabitha just wants to play, but poor Emma's legs aren't the best, so she can't jump up out of her way too well. Is it because she identifies Emma as an easy target?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. OH has said to maybe make Tabitha's base downstairs for a while, and keep everything for Emma upstairs to switch their scents up a bit?

Thank you in advance!