Roaming cat.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Apologies for reading that wrong then.

[Hippykitty]

Are you very short of money and unable to pay for the Glasgow test yourself? If this is the case, it would be best if you didn't consider taking Seb in, but allow him to remain as a stray, untested and alive.

No where here do I suggest that Seb should remain unneutered. I was just suggesting that if cc was being held over a barrel by CP's culling policy, then it would be best not to test him, with all that might imply regarding his life.

CC, for a different take on this, please read Sylvia's thread.

http://www.chaptanservices.com/purrs/index.php?topic=5513.75

[ccmacey]

Thanks Sylvia and all the peeps that think I'm doing right. 

[Sylvia]

CC, well done for looking after Seb in this way.

I know what you are feeling, as we went through the same thing with Tatty in December last year.  At least at that time, when the CP vet told us that Tatty was FIV+, even though they implied that they thought that we should have him PTS, because we told them we were prepared to keep him as an indoor cat, separate to our existing gang, they let us take him back home.

We were worried about our existing cats, bacause they had been associating with Tatty for about a year before we found out about his FIV status, and he was a very different cat to your Seb.  He was so very scared of people to begin with that he would lash out with his claws and bite if you got too close to him.  However, it took a while, but about two or three months after being neutered, he became a totally different cat.  He loves the attention of people now, and the only problem that we have is that he hates being picked up.  We carried out introductions to our non-FIV cats very carefully and very slowly after Tats had settled down, and we now trust him completely with Gizzy, Suki and Sweepy, but not with Tommy.  However, because I am around all day I can ensure that Tommy and Tatty can either aviod each other, or get to their respective refuges safely when necessary.

I understand your worries, but I can only say that we have never for one instant regretted bringing Tatty into our family.  It hasn't always been easy, but is has certainly been worth it.  In fact, our latest waif and stray (as our vet has called Tabs) is currently at the vet today for his neutering and dental treatment, and his Glasgow FIV test came back as positive.

I'm so pleased to hear that you are going ahead with the neutering.  If you do go ahead with the FIV test on Wednesday, then I hope this comes back as negative.

 

[Ela]

I will correct myself- its MY LOCAL CP'S policy.

That is OK the vet may well have said CP policy as perhaps yours is the only CP branch they deal with.

am going to get him neutered, I don't think it fair to leave him on the streets, after all he will just keep coming round to my house and the problem will still be going on.

Good for you and listening  to sound advice and realizing that is is not only in Sebs interest you have him neutered, but the interest of the neughbourhoold cats including your own.

[ccmacey]

I will correct myself- its MY LOCAL CP'S policy.

I am going to get him neutered, I don't think it fair to leave him on the streets, after all he will just keep coming round to my house and the problem will still be going on.

As for vets bills I know I will have to pay them but I expect this if I take him on, he will then be my cat.

Ted can be sorted out, he's usually a docile cat so I think I could work things out, like I said I'm here to break up any fights. And I think he's only like that because Seb is spraying in the garden.

I have asked someone from here for help with finding a home if things don't work out.

[Ela]

Correct me if this is wrong ela.)

I can't answer for CC's  Cats Protection branch group as we all do what we can with the funds we have. We in Chesterfield would pay any vets bills if necessary (if a cat were a stray and the finder agreed to keep it) that were proper to any problems the cat had that were found when the cat had the MOT and perhaps bloods.

[Ela]

Are you very short of money and unable to pay for the Glasgow test yourself? If this is the case, it would be best if you didn't consider taking Seb in, but allow him to remain as a stray, untested and alive. The rescue peeps will now be up in arms, sorry folks

In my opinion that would be irresponsible and not the actions of a cat lover.

Benefits of Neutering (males):
Reduces or eliminates risk of spraying and marking
Less desire to roam, therefore less likely to be injured in fights or road traffic accidents.
Risk of testicular cancer is eliminated, and decreases the  incidence of prostate disease & the chances of getting  i FIV & FeLV
Reduces the number of unwanted cats/kittens
Decreases aggressive behaviour,
Helps cats live 3 – 5 YEARS LONGER, healthier lives

[Desley (booktigger)]

I am glad you are still going to take him to be neutered CC, can I just say again that Hippy's advice of leaving an unneutered tom as a stray is incredibly wrong, regardless of whether the cat is positive or not - I imagine that every single rescue in the country is struggling to cope with the amount of cats needing homes at the moment, and leaving cats like Seb just adds to that problem.
I personally wouldnt' take him in if I were you CC, you have already admitted that Ted doesn't like him, you want him testing to make sure it is fair on yours, but yet ignoring that one of them doesnt like him - yes, it might get better once his hormones die down, but you are looking at weeks for that to happen.

[Ela]

The vet has only said that they have to follow CP policy

 It is not CP policy it is the Policy of your local Branch.

[Hippykitty]

If finances are that tight because of the coming baby, it may be wise to think about the future costs of Seb. The CP won't regard him as a stray after you've homed him, and his vet costs will be yours. (Correct me if this is wrong ela.)

It's sounding more and more like you can't take this cat on, so it may be wise to think of some alternatives. Some way down the thread one of the rescue peeps offered to put out feelers concerning a new home for him, even if this is an indoor, one-cat home (if he's positive); it may be worth taking up the offer. I don't know if there's some way you can find a suitable home for him via CatChat rescue.

This may be the best way to go - finding him a new home. You might even get help with the testing and neutering etc from a rescue which doesn't pts. I would suggest contacting some of the peeps on this site for help.

[ccmacey]

He needs neutering and thats what he is going to the vets for.

As for the money situation I am due a baby and need to get sorted for that, if it wernt for the baby coming I would pay for him to be tested and neutered but this will cost around £100 and thats just not do able at this time.

[Hippykitty]

Under no curcumstances do I want him PTS and I will wait at the vets to make sure that does not happen if I have to.

Surely you'll just take the cat to the vet to have his blood taken, then go home with him and phone the vet two weeks later when the results come back from Glasgow. Seb won't be at the vet when the results are known, unless you let the CP do the inhouse test.

Are you very short of money and unable to pay for the Glasgow test yourself? If this is the case, it would be best if you didn't consider taking Seb in, but allow him to remain as a stray, untested and alive. The rescue peeps will now be up in arms, sorry folks, but that is what I would do if I was in cc's shoes and couldn't afford to pay for the virus test myself.

Would I take in a positive cat? Polly and Sam are probably both positive. I don't know. I don't want to know. Knowing is like having a black cloud hanging over your cats. You wait each day for signs that the end is coming. Even if it's years before they show symptoms, the knowledge is like the sword of Damaclus (sp?) waiting to drop.

[ccmacey]

I have considered it and no I don't want him PTS. Tell me what can I do if he is pos?

It is not me that said to PTS it was the CP, so its not me that has made that decision, I totally disagree with it too.

I think I have explained enough that I cannot take the risk with my cats, would you do it with yours?

Under no curcumstances do I want him PTS and I will wait at the vets to make sure that does not happen if I have to.

The vet has only said that they have to follow CP policy but if I'm there to take him they cannot do that.

[Hippykitty]

What will you do with Seb if his results are positive?

Please consider this before you have him tested. Will you have the poor mite pts?

They are only fighting because he isn't neutered.

[ccmacey]

So the outcome of the test will be 99% accurate?

I'm going to have him tested to put my own mind at ease. I know some peeps think there is no reason to test a healthy cat but you must understand I need to do this to keep my own cats safe. If I don't have him tested I will only worry and things wont go as planned with trying to take him into my home. At least when I have had him tested and I know he is clear I wont be so worried about the cat fights that are going to follow.

As I have said Ted does not like Seb in the house and so far he has only been in the kitchen and Ted yowells his head off then, so of course I'm expecting some fights between them when he finds Seb in other rooms in the house. This is Ted's house and thats the only way he will see it.

[Ela]

So obviously vets know that these tests can be wrong sometimes, do you think they would let me do a test and get it sent to Glasgow if the first is pos

They should take enough blood so that some can be sent to Glasgow if necessary. However, as previously advised I have never had a false neg and only 1 false poss in many years and hundreds of test we have had taken. and even with that one the vet said the result was not conclusive.

[ccmacey]

So obviously vets know that these tests can be wrong sometimes, do you think they would let me do a test and get it sent to Glasgow if the first is pos?

My cats do fight with him but its only been verbal up to now, I always manage to separate them.

[Desley (booktigger)]

42% for FeLV and 7% for FIV, plus I think it is 5% of false negatives for FIV too. not good enough odds for me to ever use them, so am very glad my vets dont do in house tests full stop, although the rescues vet pushes them.

[Millys Mum]

Its even worse if they pts without double checking, isnt it something like 40% of felv and 10% of fiv inhouse tests give false positives?

CC, he's already mixing with your cats and having fistycuffs, hes more of a risk now then once neutered.

Simons mouth was bad before his extractions even tho hes negative (tested before i got him) so i wouldnt doubt Ollies result.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Good luck with him, I would ask how much the Glasgow test is, my vets only charge £34 for it, and dont do in house tests (yet the rescues vet charged me £60 for the same thing). Just a few things - Hippy mentioned about cats shaking off the virus - that is only the case for FeLV, not FIV, so FeLV+ tests should actually be repeated 12 weeks later, as they could have come into contact with it, and deal with the virus. FeLV is also easier spread than FIV. There is a vaccine for FIV in the US, but it has some issues at the moment, as it shows the cat to be postive on the blood tests, and they haven't got a test that can distinguish between teh actual virus and the vaccine, so it isn't popular. Only 2 of mine have ever been tested, both due to the vet insisting, mine are older, have been outside adn still go outside, so I dont see the point - and as long as neither cat was a fighter, I would have + and - together.

[Ela]

Although he has been tested via Glasgow and they came back negative

Therefore do not worry. I have had cats with gingivitis and were tested, all were neg and went on to live years, althought some needed all their  teeth removed apart from their fangs

[ccmacey]

Now my head is spinning, I've just read Dawn's article and it says FIV is shown in cats having Gingivitis and stomatitis  which Ollie has. Although he has been tested via Glasgow and they came back negative.

When I got Ollie he was in bad health, had runny eyes was not weaned, and my other 2 cats got very ill and 1 of them died within a week of getting sick. Ollie was a hyper kitten and it all started from a limp in the cat who died. I'm starting to think he is the culprit.

[Team Svartalfheims]

I think i paid about £55 each for mine to be tested via Glasgow. Results took about 2 weeks.

[Ela]

How come there is not protection from FIV?

Pass, but possibly because the FIV test is not considered reliable enough in the UK.

So if I pay for the test myself they have no right to PTS because they have not paid for it? How much does it cost?

Of course if you pay for the tests you will be doing it as a private person then the decision is yours.
I would suggest that if you go down this route you keep Seb separate from your cats until you know the result unless you intend to mix him whatever the result. Also if he was FIV+ and you are not going to keep him you will need to have found him an alternative home.
Personally I am not prepared to place a FIV + cat in my home with my cats, although it perhaps is easy for me to say that as I have access to a facility for a FIV cats. Although at the moment we have our full capacity (6)

I am hoping after all this he is FIV-

[ccmacey]

There is no injection for FIV in the UK

On my cats vacs form it says Feline Panleucopaenia, Feline Viral Rhinotrachetis, Feline Calicivirus and Feline Leukaemia.

How come there is not protection from FIV?

[ccmacey]

So if I pay for the test myself they have no right to PTS because they have not paid for it? How much does it cost?

Things are going too good, he turned up last night and he is here now, I've never had him come round 2 days in a row before. I just hope he keeps up and shows on Tues.

[Ela]

There are many scenarios in which the in-house test is useless:

I wouldn't say that exactly. We have numerous cats tested every year. Only once has it ever been confirmed by Glasgow that it was wrong and even on that occasion our vet advised us that the tests were not conclusive. I know there are different brands of testing kits so perhaps some brands are more reliable than other also perhaps at some vets the 'tester' is not as efficient as they should be and not quite doing thing right.

[Ela]

(Surely this is what the vaccine is supposed to protect them from?)

There is no injection for FIV in the UK

[Ela]

Sorry, I should have pointed out this isn't CP's standard policy.   Branches are given guidelines and it's up to the individual branches, what route they follow......sadly a few take the easy option 

I think nowadays more and more branches are keeping the FIV cats. I know I am receiving mail and phone calls from many branches at different parts of the country about FIV cats and asking about our 'safe haven'. I also know a number of branches have FIV cats in now looking for homes.

[Bazsmum]

When I took Blackie to the CP vet they were sure he wouldnt have this disease and said that this area (where i live) is not a hot spot....obviously they would of known as would of seen it in other ferals......they did put the point across that if he had to go back out in the wild it would not be fair on him or other cats who may come into contact with him....it would just spread....

Although Im a animal lover in this case if the cat cant be homed then i agree that pts is the best option....thing is Seb is friendly to humans so bit of a different case 

[Hippykitty]

It sounds as though some branches of CP have a "culling" policy. Maybe this is part of a concerted effort to eradicate FLV/FIV? If so, it's a policy I thoroughly disapprove of.

I can only echo what everyone has said about the uselessness of the in-house test. Your own cats would now test positive using this type of test cc, because the vaccination leaves antibodies in the bloodstream. The in-house test tests for the presence of the antibodies, not the virus, so your own cats would test as positive.

There are many scenarios in which the in-house test is useless:

if a cat has been vaccinated

if a cat has been in contact with the virus, but thrown it off (a third of all cats can do this)

For these, and other reasons, the test is useless, and you MUST HAVE THE VIRUS TEST DONE AT GLASGOW. This will take about two weeks, because they actually grow the virus from the sample (it grows if the virus is in the sample). I don't know how much this costs, as it's about 20 years since Bella and Minnie were tested by Glasgow.

Do you let your cats out? If so, they probably come across positive cats all the time. Once Seb is neutered, he'll be as little threat to them as any other cat they might meet outside. (Surely this is what the vaccine is supposed to protect them from?)

If I were in your position, I'd get Seb neutered and vaccinated and not bother with the testing.

Whatever you decide to do, don't have Seb pts, and don't be bullied by CP. Learn as much as you can about the conditions before making a decision. There's lots of info on the 'net. Knowledge is power.

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

  for Dawn

That's what makes things worse in my view. Someone locally has chosen to make the rule that even if an FIV positive cat has an offer of a good indoor home, they will be PTS as standard practice. Since when did this class as common sense, let alone in the cat's best interest?

As I said, when you come across a massive obsticle, just go round it... 

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

Sorry, I should have pointed out this isn't CP's standard policy.   Branches are given guidelines and it's up to the individual branches, what route they follow......sadly a few take the easy option 

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

... at this point, just want to point out Canterbury CP have an FIV cat, Mabel, who they are actively trying to rehome.  As far as I know, individual groups make and adhire to their own rules.

But if they are paying, the vet has to abide by who is signing the cheques. A way round this would be to pay for it yourself, or get someone with a different policy to pay, CC... 

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

Because CP are paying for the blood testing, sadly you may not have a choice in it.....this is why it needs sorting before you take the cat in.  Someone I know had the same offer on a colony of feral cats she was trapping, CP wanted to blood test all but if positive, they would be destroyed    She ended up paying for the whole lot herself, this was the only way to avoid the CP's policy.  Sometimes with large organisations, they will stick to rules regardless of what's on offer, even if it's a difference between saving an animals life, and ending one   

[ccmacey]

Under no curcumstances do I want him PTS and they will only do this if he is pos. Im going to talk with the vets about this.

And they will only do this because its the CP policy.

[ccmacey]

Thanks Pinkbear but I think your too far away.

Seb is booked in to be neutered on Wed, so hopefully he will turn up on Tues night (who am I trying to kid )

Something else, I know I will have to sign the form for consent for his neuter but will there be one for the tests? If there is I just wont sign it.

I will have a talk with the vet and ask if I could have him back if he is pos.

The vet said if its CP's policy to PTS then thats what they will do but if I can tell the vet I have someone who can take him then Im sure she would have a heart and let me do that.

Im guessing they give cats back that do test pos to rescues that dont have this policy?

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

If you are having a rethink and rehoming him if he's positive rather than pts, make sure this is made clear to the CP and the vets BEFORE you take him for neutering.  I would get both done at the same time and have him tested whilst under.  I have known of cases before when regardless of a home being offered if FIV positive, they have still gone ahead and done what they want and pts....and yes, this has been the CP.  Get it in writing if need be that whatever the result, he will not be PTS.

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

I've sent the article CC, with it there is an article on FeLV and also one on the Cats Action Trusts blood testing policy......all articles are really good and are written by a vet.  If anyone else want's a copy, if you can pm me your email address, I'll send them to you.