RIP Jaffa - 6th June 1997 - 13th June 2014

[LouiseJ]

Have you got a blender? I'd try blending his wet food and maybe adding a couple of dreamies to it and syringing that.
Out of desperation the other year I tried Chelsea on a sugar solution but there is always cat milk if he is allowed to have it.
Good luck and good vibes for Jaffa. Will be thinking of you x

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Jaffa seems to have taken a turn for the worse.  I'm not sure whether he's had another seizure or whether it's just his ckd taking a sudden turn for the worse.  I got home to find him on the bed as opposed to in the hall waiting for me and he was vomiting white foam.  He vomited over and over again.  eventually he came into the living room and is now curled up on the sofa snoozing.  He looks more comfortable than he did earlier but not entirely comfortable.  He wont eat anything and ate very little this morning or last night.  there was a wet patch on the bed which could be urine which might indicate a seizure as he did empty his bladder when he had the other seizures.   but it could equally just be vomit as if he's not eaten he does just vomit up a bit of fluid.  His urine is very dilute so doesn't really smell of much.  He was also doing a lot of teeth grinding which indicates excess stomach acid.  I am just hoping he can sleep it off and make it through this evening and night so that I can ring the vet in the morning and assess the situation.  I really don't want to take him now as it will stress him out big time and I think he's better off sleeping at home. 

Does anyone know of a food that I can syringe into his mouth or that he might find irresistible?  My concern is that he is so skinny he has no fat reserves to fall back on and I am also worried about hepatic lipiwotsit if he doesn't eat. I'd really like to get some food into him.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

It is still very up and down but right now he is quite perky and doing well.  His appetite is still poor so mealtimes are a bit of a struggle but using the Ipakitine as phosphate binder mixed in his food instead of the mucogel is helping as there is less stress at mealtimes trying to get the food down him and giving the mucogel (needed to be given within 30 mins of eating but it can take Jaffa 45 mins to eat a meal or longer if he wants to come back to it later).  He's been vomiting a lot this past week and he has days (or part of days) when he drinks copiously and I sometimes have to actually remove his water for a short while to stop him regurgitating it (which would just make him more dehydrated).  he will go to one water bowl then to another then walk away and seconds later go back for more.  Then other times he's fine - eats his food (wet food with some water added) and maybe have a drink but then will settle down and not be at the water bowl every 5 minutes.  He has been good the past few days though, eating a bit better, vomiting less and more his normal, purry self.  He is back on the Pepcid AC for stomach acid and I think that really  helps the way he feels.  It will be his 17th birthday on Friday - even in the past few weeks I wondered whether he'd make it so I'm glad he's been brighter recently and has shown that he's not ready to go anywhere just yet 

[LouiseJ]

Sorry, I haven't been on here in ages due to one thing or another.

I'm so pleased Jaffa is doing well now although it must have been awful for you to see him so ill.

When Chelsea was diagnosed with CRF, I used the site Jo suggested and highly recommend it. We also went through a whole range of food and the one she would eat was Happy Cat which is a German one I got on Zooplus.

Just watch for him pressing his head against things - sign of a headache

xx

[bunglycat]

Glad Jaffa is doing well and hope it stays that way.
Wish it was the same here ! Think Winston has had another mini stroke tonight , seems to have picked up,a little though .
 

[Lyn (Slugsta)]

Thanks for the update, I am so glad that Jaffa is doing well  Good idea to get his mouth checked, it is easy to get 'tunnel vision' and put everything down to the known problem without looking any further.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Jaffa continues to do wonderfully well and he's eating fairly well too, most of the time.  He has mealtimes when he struggles and I have to really persuade him to eat but other times he gets stuck in.  There are certain foods that he loves - Applaws is a favourite and fortunately most varieties are fairly low in phosphorus although they are not complete foods - so I have cottoned on the giving him those for breakfast when I don't really have time to spend ages persuading him to eat.  I am also pouring tuna water over some foods (water from can of tuna in spring water) and adding a couple of treats I know he likes.  He is eating the RC renal, including the chicken flavour!, although he does struggle to eat a whole pouch.  But if he manages 2/3 of a pouch plus a few treats or "garnish" of applaws chicken/tuna then I'm happy.

He is still on the mucogel but I am getting some Ipakitine to try.  not sure whether he will take to it but I will try a small amount in a food I know he likes and see whether he will eat it.  It would be great to be able to do that as he really hates the mucogel and it does add stress to  mealtimes when we both know I'm going to approach afterwards with a syringe full of vile tasting liquid and force it down him.  He also has to have his nelio tablet so for one meal a day that means the mucogel and the tablet have to be administered.  I try to mix it up a bit by sometimes doing it before his meal, sometimes immediately afterwards and sometimes waiting 15 mins afterwards (vet said had to be given within 30 mins of eating although not sure how that works on the occasions when he takes 45 mins to eat his meal!).  I am starting to hate the smell of the mucogel and even his poos smell of it!

He is due at the vets end of next week/early week after to have his bp tested again.  I am going to insist on a proper examination of his mouth to check for ulcers or other dental problems as I think he's actually struggling to pick up pieces of food at times so I do suspect something is going on there but he's not really had it looked at properly.  I am also going to ask for an antacid because I am convinced he has excess stomach acid and that this is likely making him feel nauseous and lacking in appetite at times.  The jaw/teeth grinding that he does may be related to excess stomach acid.  If it doesn't make any difference I won't continue with it as I don't want him on too much medication but I think it's worth trying.

[Reets]

Thank you for the update - good to hear he is doing so well.

I remember having to 'encourage' Rosie to eat  and sitting beside her stroking her - otherwise she would just stop eating.  Quite time-consuming, but stroking a cat is not a bad way to spend the evening (and early morning) 

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

He's sitting beside me on the sofa at the moment having eaten a whole tray of beaphor without too much persuasion.  Had a bit of difficulty getting his meds in him as he is starting to realise something is up and runs away then avoids me afterwards for a while.  He is definitely getting his appetite back so I hope that means the meds are working.  He is back at the vets on Thursday for a check up.  He needs his bp re-testing but that will probably have to wait until next pay day so we'll probably just keep him on the same meds for now.

[Lyn (Slugsta)]

Thank you so much for the update Susanne, it is great to hear that Jaffa is doing well 

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Jaffa is doing very well and is almost back to his usual self.  He's eating well although he takes quite a bit of persuading to eat it all so meal times are a bit of a performance.  I hope we can improve his appetite so that he can get back to how he used to be - would eat anything and everything!  Might not get quite back to that but I'd like to see him eating well and enthusiastically even if it's only for a short while.  He is eating his renal food but I wish there were more varieties  as he doesn't like the same thing all the time.  He likes the RC renal food (except the chicken) but I need to slip in one or 2 other things to keep it interesting.  I have some hills pouches (not so keen) and some eukenuba (ok) as well as beaphor.  The last two are a bit higher in phosphorus.  I looked at the tinned food data on tanya's site and there are a few foods listed there with fairly low phosphorus levels but not specifically renal.  One is Applaws tuna fillet - I tried him with that and it went down a treat.  Some other Hills that sounded nice but it seems they are now discontinued.

I may need to change the type of phosphate binder but not sure.  Could really do with something that would mix in to food as long as it really was tasteless.  I don't really fancy syringing stuff into him 3 times a day indefinitely.  He's starting to put up a fight now.  We may also need to put him on bp tablets if the nelio hasn't lowered his bp sufficiently.  But so far he is doing well.  No more seizures (touch wood) and no more apparent strokes. 

[Reets]

I am glad too to hear that in general Jaffa is doing better.  Like you, with Rosie I took the view that a nasty min or two to get the meds into her was worth it for the good that it did her after she began refusing the meds in treats.

Knowing what to give them to eat is so difficult, isn't it?  I wish they could tell us too, and we always used to feed our two together until she had to start having meds in food and then it was difficult changing the routine to keep them apart at feeding time.

Rosie used to get constipated with the CRF as well.  I found the tiniest bit of raw liver or a tiny bit of cream, or even a lick of butter from my finger would usually help.

Well done with all this - its very hard on you all.  You are in my thoughts.  Hopefully Jaffa will get into a great routine and the meds will mean everything settles down for you for a good long time.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

I'm not too good at not panicking!  He didn't seem comfortable yesterday afternoon and evening but I think it was down to constipation.  If he's bunged up that may well be why he's vomited and may put him off eating.  He is going but not enough and I think he is a bit uncomfortable.  I'm trying to get some hairball paste down him but he's not playing ball.  I tried to smear some on his paws but he then went into his litter tray and got litter stuck to it! 

[Lyn (Slugsta)]

Thanks for the update, I'm so glad to hear that Jaffa is doing well. I think you are right to take the ups and downs without panicking, if you can, as everyone will benefit if you can be calm 

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Thanks but I already have it bookmarked!  It is a site full of great information. 

The food issue is so difficult because I don't know what he wants to eat.  I agree with the give him what he wants approach and that would be straight forward if I knew what he wanted.  I can't find any particular food that is his favourite.  He will eat something one day then turn his nose up at it the next.  every meal time I'm looking at all the tins and pouches and wondering what he might fancy this time!  I so wish he could just tell me. He does seem to like the RC renal and raw.

As to tablets - have to say I'm actually impressing myself by how well that is going!  Until now I've only ever had to get the odd worming tablet down him or the occasional course of ABs.  But I am managing to do it with the minimum of faff and whilst Jaffa hates being restrained in any way, once it's over he doesn't bear a grudge or run away.  I'm sure the phosphate binder does not taste good but I'm getting it syringed into his mouth.  I take the view that it's better to stress him out for a brief time and get it over with than try to be a bit less harsh and end up taking ages to get them down him.  At the moment he needs the syringe of phosphate binder 3 times a day, his benazepril once a day and an AB twice a day! 

He's actually been a bit down this afternoon and has been sick but I think there are inevitable ups and downs with this and I don't think the meds will have kicked in fully yet.  When he's next at the vets I  need to get her to check his mouth to see if there's anything physically preventing him from eating or he may need an anti nausea med.  I really want to get him eating because he always used to be a really good eater who would demolish a pouch in one go no problem.  It would help if I could add his phosphate binder to his food but that relies on him eating all the food as I can't leave it down for him to come back to with Mosi around.

Overall I think things are continuing to look positive.

[maddercow]

Is www.felinecrf.org

Really helpful site.

X

[maddercow]

Fantastic news. Really pleased to hear that. There is a very good feline CRF website, can't remember it off top of my head but will post it later, anyway, it says that, within reason, it doesn't really matter what he eats as long as he eats it as their appetites do drop drastically.

So happy that Jaffa is doing well, he'll get used to the tablets down his gullet, we had to to take that approach with Holly as no amount of disguising them fooled her!

Xx

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Jaffa is doing wonderfully well.  He is taking his meds (well, having them shoved down his throat 3 times a day which isn't much fun for either of us but my little man doesn't bear grudges and is coping) and his behaviour is so much better - he's livelier and interested in his surroundings in a way he hasn't been for a while.

I am convinced he has had a stroke but if he has he is recovering from it very well.  The vet says he probably has a bit of arthritis in his back legs and he is walking stiffly as though he has.  His weight loss is also showing up that he maybe has some in his spine as his whole back seems stiff and a bit arched at times.  But his legs in general seem almost back to their "normal" degree of wobbliness and not that awful day when he could hardly use his back end.  We need to get his BP under control but have to wait to see how well the crf meds work, as they will lower it a bit, before we give him specific BP meds.

He is eating but it's sporadic and so hard to know what to give him.  I have just about every kind of food imaginable from the likes of Felix to sheba to Applaws/thrive type chicken.  Different flavours, chunks in jelly and gravy, pate.... renal food, senior food, normal adult food..... if only he could tell me what he feels like when it comes to meal times!  The RC renal went down very well yesterday but I am not serving it up at every meal because I know that will put him off it.  I have more renal food coming from vetuk but not here yet.  What is going down very well is raw food.  I have tried him with raw mince and that went down well and I have bought some natures menu pre packaged raw which he loved also and ate the lot.  Am thinking that maybe raw is the way to go with Jaffa.  He has always loved raw meat.

So all in all we're taking it one day at a time.  I know that CRF is terminal and irreversible but he is actually stage 3 and not stage 4.  I am hoping that if we can get his BP sorted and his CRF remains stable he will continue to be well for a while longer.  I think his BP is the main problem at the moment and very possibly what caused the seizures and the stroke.

[maddercow]

CRF is a bit of a rollercoaster. You see improvement, then they have a few bad days, then they rally again.

Our Holly developed it at 17, she went on Fortekor & Sub cutaneous fluids &  improved  after a couple of weeks & really was fine for 10 months, although you do have ups & downs. Towards the end she had what I think was a stroke but was OK after a snooze. A month or so later she deteriorated pretty rapidly and we had her PTS bless her, she was skin & bone.

It is manageable but you have to weigh up the good days with the bad, you'll know when Jaffa has had enough.

Thinking of you.

Jo xxx

[Lyn (Slugsta)]

Don't have any practiacl advice, just wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you & Jaffa and hope that the meds help and that you have as much quality time together as possible 

seconded! 

[Tiggy's Mum]

Don't have any practiacl advice, just wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you & Jaffa and hope that the meds help and that you have as much quality time together as possible 

[bunglycat]

Sorry to,read all this about Jaffa.
I know exactly where you are  coming from.
Winston has lost his sight, possibly through high blood pressure, he has heart and kidney problems and arthritis.
Most days aren't too bad, but he has off days where he is off his food or/ and more disorientated than usual .
I have had to go to,the vets twice on emergency call out, Boxing Day morning at 2.30 am when he had a minor heart attack and the vet wanted to,pts ,but I wanted to give him a chance and he is still here.
Then he was on Asprin and had to,rush him down a few weeks later at 9pm as he vomited blood and blood clots.
He also,gets a very gassy tummy and constipation , so,give a around 3 lms of liquid paraffin.
He also,lost control of his bladder once whilst he was being sick and also once his bowels.
He is still eating well most days and has been outside in the sun ,so it's no time for him yet and he is 16 .
Hopefully Jaffa will stay stable now . Xxx

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

It's very up and down with Jaffa.  One minute I wonder whether I'm doing the right thing keeping him going and trying the meds then the next he seems to perk up and I think there is some improvement.  He definitely seems better this morning so I hope that is a response the meds and he doesn't relapse.

I am convinced now that he's had a stroke.  There are other options.  the vet said he could even have a brain tumour or something but no point in doing tests that would stress him out when there isn't anything that could be done for it.  That could have caused the seizures.  But the seizures and the possible stroke could both be caused by the high blood pressure so I suppose only time will tell.

I have ordered him renal food online - various ones to try - RC renal (which he has tried before and seemed to like), Hills, Eukaneuba and Beophar from zooplus.  I'd like him to eat the renal for now so fingers crossed he will find them palatable.  If not he can have whatver he likes.  I think he is still constipated as he doesn't seem to have had a bowel movement for a while.

It is very draining emotionally and so very hard to know whether I am doing the right thing.  One minute I look at him and think he is suffering and I really need to let him go (although I dont' think he is in pain) then he perks up and seems much more like his old self and I'm so glad I'm giving him a chance.  It's getting that balance between not pursuing every intervention possible in a desperate attempt to keep them alive for longer and acknowledging that having a cat isn't just about enjoying them when they are cute and healthy but also caring for them when they are elderly and sick and need a bit more help.  I'll do whatever I have to to help him but I hope I can also see the signs and recognise when enough is enough.

[Reets]

My girl Rosie suffered CRF last year and the onset was quite sudden, though she had had cystitis in the past when stressed.  Our vets put her on fortekor as she had protein in her urine and she picked up quite quickly but then about three or four weeks later she had a stroke - she had not been tested for High Blood Pressure but it was very very high when they did test.  She was pretty quiet one morning before I went to work and when I got home one eye was really swollen, she was scared, and we worked out, she could not see.  We took her to the vets the next day and they said the stroke had meant she bled into the eyes, though she did not really have any other symptoms.  She then had blood pressure tablets too (Istin).  One eye never recovered but I think she could see, rather hazily, through the other.  She was reluctant to go out after that, understandably, and for a while took her tablets well, but then began refusing them and we  had to use a piller which was distressing for her and for us.  We fed her whatever she would eat - she would simply not eat the prescription food, though she would eat the prescription kibble.  Many foods made her sick.  She lost weight even though the blood pressure and crf were relatively under control and in the end her quality of life was poor and we all decided the best thing was for her to go to the bridge, though it broke our hearts.  She was 15 when she died.

I think each case is so individual that is really difficult to generalise and you will need to be led by Jaffa.  I hope that he does improve and you have a long time left together.

I am sure that you are savouring every day with him and looking on each one as a blessing.

[Liz]

We had Smudger feral who had a stroke he recovered well enough and was on steroids for a couple of months fortunately for us the stress was lessened by no vets visits as I could inject the steroids as our vet trusts us to do it and he went on for another 18 months and OH remarked how well he was looking and he passed away in his sleep surrounded by the others on his terms in his way

We had Amber with CRF and did all the usual stuff but sadly she lasted 6 weeks from diagnosis to PTS again she was feral and untrusting so in the end we let her enjoy her life her way and her Daddy took her to be PTS as she was a Daddies girl who only tolerated her mother

I can only say let Jaffa lead you along with the vet on the way forward and cats can have TIA's and you probably wouldn't waken you

[souffle]

I have experience of CRF in a cat. Cidie who is now at the bridge was about 17 when she started with vomiting and constipation. She struggled to poo at all and often scooted her bottom on the floor to try and remove the feeling that something was there. Sometimes she had overspill diaorhoea if it backed up behind a very solid stool. I used to use unscented baby wipes to clean her up as this is quite speedy to do. I perfected the technique of getting her under my arm and wiping her bottom quickly. She often toileted outside the tray as she likely tried so hard in the tray she couldn't wait any longer. I had laxative paste but it did little to help and she hated the stuff. The body chemistry in a renal cat does tend to pull fluid out the bowel and through the kidneys leaving them constipated. Tummy massage helped things move along.
If you suspect a stroke this could also be affecting the movement along the bowel. If the nerves suppling the bowel are not signaling to keep it moving and when he needs to poo then things get all mixed up. I haven't had a cat with a stroke but have had several hamsters. If they get through the first 24hrs they do tend to survive but full healing can take a few weeks and they are often left with a weakness.
For the renal failure Cidie had Fortekor I think it was called which increases the blood supply going through the kidneys and improves the filtration. She had the Royal Canin pouches and liked these a lot. Luckily she did eat it as I understand renal cats are often reluctant to eat. Some people seem to just give them what they will take as some food is better than none but some types are better than others. Fish is not ideal for renal cats. Her sickness stopped on the tablets which also reduced her BP and she has another 2 years with us of happy contented life. 19 was a good age for a little rescue cat The day she started to pee blood I took her in to give her rest. The vet said this indicated complete renal failure as her blood was coming through her kidneys and she would not have lasted long. I feel happy we got it right as she never suffered. We never got rid of the constipation though. I think that goes with the illness.
It sounds as if Jaffa has had a minor stroke and this is compounding his renal issues with the bowel problems and also the back leg weakness. If you can get things under control he may improve in time or he may suffer another stroke - you never know what will happen but you WILL know exactly the time when he tells you he has had enough.
I am sending healing vibes to Jaffa and hugs to you. It is hard, very hard watching and caring for a poorly beast of any sort both physically and emotionally.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

So far I have posted about Jaffa only in the A team thread in non cat chat.  But I thought I'd post here in case anyone else has experienced similar and has any information or advice.  Apologies if this is long.

To summarise - Jaffa became ill just over 2 weeks ago.  He developed cystitis and kept going back and forth to the litter tray.  He has had this before and usually one dose of metacam sorts him out but it didn't do the job this time.  Then about 10 days ago he had 3 seizures in one day.  Full on seizures lasting about 2 minutes each.  I took him to the vet who did a full blood and urine analysis and gave some antibiotics in case he had an infection.  I was given advice about how to care for him post seizure (he'd had one by that stage and had 2 more after returning home).  Since then he has had no more seizures.  Prior to the seizures he had some weakness in his back legs but not an excessive amount.  Post seizures he seemed a bit wobblier but still got around ok.  Blood tests showed advanced CRF and his blood pressure is very high.  He has been put on benazapil (nelio) and a phosphate binder (liquid) as well as some more ABs as his urine sample contained some white blood cells which indicated the possibility of infection.

2 days ago we got up and I noticed straight away that his back legs were noticeably weaker.  He was struggling to do anything much with his back end and at times was virtually dragging his rear end around in a seated position.  The extent to which he  struggles does vary and he seems to have less trouble jumping up onto things than actually walking and stepping over things (like in and out of the litter tray).  He can walk but he is wobbly and at times he seems unable to stand up properly.  He also struggles on smooth surfaces.  He sleeps most of the time on the bed and only really gets up for food or water or to use the tray.  Eating is variable - he is generally interested in the idea of food but then sniffs it or eats a little then walks away.  Other times he will eat it all.   He's clearly unwell and unhappy and I hate seeing him like this.  I don't think he's in pain although I think he feels sick and weak from the CRF and is a bit distressed at not having full use of his back legs (he currently has poo stuck to his bum and tail through sitting in it in the tray).  However the vet and I have discussed options and both think it is worth trying the meds to see if they will help. If they do not help quite quickly difficult decisions will then have to be made 

He was at the vets yesterday and she said he could have had a stroke or have a blood clot or any number of things but can't know without doing something like a CAT scan or MRI which are not possible for a variety of reasons.  Or it could just be the CRF or high blood pressure.  His potassium levels are fine so it's not low potassium.  We also don't know why he had the seizures - could be neurological, a brain tumour or due to the high BP.  But regarding the legs, I am increasingly thinking he may have had a stroke.

So that brings me to why I have posted this.  I'd appreciate any help, advice or information from anyone who has experience of CRF, high BP or strokes in cats.

Strokes - how do you know whether a cat has had a stroke?  Is it possible for him to have had a stroke sunday night/Monday morning without me knowing?  He sleeps on the bed beside me.  Would he have woken me up?  Do cats have mini strokes (TIAs) like humans?  More importantly, has anyone had a cat who has had a stroke and then recovered?  I understand from reading on the internet that cats often do recover from strokes.  How long does this usually take?

re the CRF - does anyone know how long it usually takes from starting meds to seeing some improvement?  Same with BP?  Is this back leg weakness something that can be helped by reducing his BP and treating his CRF (which I know cannot be reversed)? 

Just really looking for any experiences others have had regarding any of these conditions.