Warring cats - worried we may have to rehome our kitten

[LouiseJ]

  to you both
They sounds like great ideas, Liz. I'll try rescue remedy first as I have some and then see how they go from there. I've got an extra Feliway as well for when we get back and Fluff comes back from the cattery. Being in there might help as well - I'm hoping she'll be used to other cats around her and grateful for coming home!

[Liz]

Having a very multi cat house hold and have just taken on as a forever foster a 15yo diabetic from CP can I suggest some Zulkene across all their wet food it does take the edge off the tension that newbies can cause

It is a natural product and no side effects and I use it under vets guidance when I have newbies and with my beloved ferals when they first come in

Ypu can also get a food made by Royal Canin in biscuit form which contains some calming stuff I know al lot of CP's are using it with great effect can't find the name but RC website will be able to help and maybe get a sample to try

Also some Rescue remedy in the water bowls and there is another thing called Calm aid that again is crushable and easy to pop on wet food

I have used all of the above with varying degrees of success and have introduced 4 kittens and Miss Millie diabetic in the last 7 weeks although 2 of the kittens were her on foster homed the other 4 but Jasmine and Ollie have heart issues so are staying as Clan kittens and Midnight and Magic were dumped on us again so they have paired up with the other 2 and I have chaos in Clan kitten form

[funkiechicken]

I hope things improve once shes back, but if you decide that things arent improving then you can always say that you tried  I know you may feel like a hypercrite but really, dont x
When you pick a cat, you pick one to best suit the existing kitties and although introductions can be rocky, you will hopefully have a near happy house in the end. But this is a situation that wasnt planned and an older cat that is predominately used to being alone  so it is neither your fault or hers. She just possibley isnt coping with her loss of her meowmi, losing her home and gaining two siblings and if your last efforts when she comes back arent working then you're doing the best for her welfare as much as you are for Luna x  it is being kind to ensure that she gets the type of home where she'll feel settled as much as it is about making sure the kittens arent becoming ill with stress 

Thanks  i'd be lying to say its all plain sailing but Nuggie is getting better  once Evil Evie stops her boisterousness i think it will improve even more. He gets time and his space and hes happy with that 

[LouiseJ]

Well she's been gone for two days and they are still creeping past "her" room. I've carried them both in and they just growl at the spot where she has been sitting.
We're going to try again slowly when she comes home Sunday week and she'll also be let outside as she's used to it and can then have territory of her own and then we'll see. If things are no better or if Luna gets worse (thankfully she is cutting down on going to her tray and just scratching at the litter) then we'll have to take her to a rescue. I'll just be feeling a bit of a hypocrite for supporting the rescue, knowing they are overflowing and dumping another cat on them.
It sounds like Nuggie, Peanut and Evie are doing well - these three can't even be in the same room and it's been well over two months now.

[funkiechicken]

oh poor Luna 
She must be getting herself in a state  I hope that the Cattery improves Fluffy's temperament and although this may not be appropriate for yourselves, I had heard before (friends and I think one may have been on here at some point) that their battling cats were put in a Cattery together and came out as friends as they sought comfort in the only thing they had that was familiar.
Which is where my 3 are heading the next time i'm on holiday 

Nuggie is the worst offender in my house. He has the other 2 not wanting to pass him or anything. 9 times out of 10 hes absolutely fine with both the younger two, but its his unpredictable moods that keep the others on their toes  Nuggie is however, less inclined to confront Evie apart from telling her off once or twice, as she will snap back. Peanut feels his wrath more, but then they'll sleep next to each other and Peanut is brave enough to shove his head in Nuggies bowl while hes eating - so I think Nuggie is not so scary as he tries to be! Half the time hes scared of them, especially Evie as she does seam to land on him from nowhere alot  But its getting more settled and I am 100% confident that none of them are stressed like your 2 babies. I think Nuggie may feel pushed out occasionally, but i'm putting extra effort in with him 

So I can see why things have reached the point of decisions. Well done for at least trying and thats all that matters, is saying you gave it your best shot. Sometimes, some cats just arent compatible - like people! Some times they just cant even get to the point of peaceful co-existance - and if things are bad i'm sure her being re-homed with no other cats might settle her nerves as much as Luna's  Good Luck!! 

[LouiseJ]

It's strange - Cleo has taken it all in her stride but Luna hasn't.  She passed blood on Thursday but the vet is fairly laid back at this stage. We're away for ten days from Thursday so Fluff went to the cattery early to see what happens and Luna is on antibiotics and cystaid at the moment plus as much extra water as she can drink and cranberry extract. She seems fine in herself until she walks past Fluff's "room" when she crouches down and tiptoes by.
We'll give them a month or so when we get back but if not Fluff will have to go as she is definitely not a cat's cat. My motherinlaw used to tell her to go chase the cats which wasn't ideal.....        

[funkiechicken]

Hooray Gordon!! hope his toilet issues continue to improve 

Here is a link to some cheap cat trees. Gordon would probably enjoy one of the taller ones, as it means he can avoid Jess if need be  it may settle his stress levels somewhat
http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/scratching_posts/customer_favourites?gclid=CNiUm5z237ICFYTMtAodQT4A-Q

And I agree with everyones advise on getting many, many litter trays! I have been lucky with my adult cats as they use outside (apart from the rare occasion they'll use a tray when i've been out) However, when Evie arrived I had 3 regular sized trays and 1 kitten tray!! and my goodness she could fill them all! I have since whittled to just the 3, but my floors are constantly covered in flicked out litter, my house smells like a farm and she still poops more than horse  so based on this extraordinary kitten pooping, I think the more trays the better and then as things improve you can then start to reduce them down. Is the tray you currently have hooded? If so, Gordon may not like it, or if it isnt - then perhaps he would prefer one?

Oh Louise, hope the kittens are ok. I know you have tried everything and it is so awful when the situation gets so bad. It could be that your mother-in-laws cat is just better suited to being an only cat? I hope her short stay in the cattery will improve her mood. She's understandably upset at her owner passing and the whole upheaval - but whatever you decide you know that you have tried and its all based on the welfare of all the cats 

[LouiseJ]

Hi
I'm trying to do this the other way round by introducing my mother - in - laws 8year old to my 11 month old kittens.
I'm a feliway advocate and definitely agree on the number of litter trays and keeping them away from each other.
I'm currently 2 1/2 months into this and the older cat is scaring the more confident one of mine to the extent where she now has cystitis which the vet thinks stress related.
We took the older cat on as my mother-in-law passed away and are now seriously thinking of having to send her to a rescue (how ever wrong I think it is)as the last thing I want is for my kittens to be stressed over this.
I've got no more advice to add to the wise words below but all I would say is good luck. 

[lynda]

Thanks for the advice, I am hoping that I have stopped it going through to the floorboards by putting down the plastic sheeting but will bear it in mind!

I gave the plastic sheet a good clean last night and changed his little again (persisting with the wood pellets until the bag runs out.) and when I came down this morning, he had pooped in the tray (hooray!!), no sign of pee on the plastic or in the tray so guessing the carpet may have fallen foul again?!

Hiring one of those rug doctor things at the weekend, and getting a special spot on spray especially for pee, so hoping this will help, after that, Gordon is being banished from the living room and we're clearing out under the stairs and putting one of his trays there and hoping desperately that he uses it. Will put him another in the spare room.

Thanks again, will keep you all updated!

[Rosella moggy]

Just want to reinforce the RX66 recommendation.  It is very good at getting rid of smells.  We have two pee pots amongst our 8 and I rely on RX66 completely no matter what it has soaked into.

We also have 4 trays (3 large and 1 jumbo) 3 of which are in the bedrooms so don't feel too bad about having one in the lounge 

[sheilarose]

Hi Linda. Some fab advice from the ladies there. I can add a little bit, if the pee has soaked through to the wood, get some RX66 from Xeria which is designed to work on porous substrates like wood floors and concrete.

I even used it on a geriatric incontinent human's cement/tile toilet floor which really stunk, I'd tried everything but RX66 shifted the smell permanently, so worth the few quid they charge. It makes things less depressing if you know you can beat this eventually AND get your house back. 

 http://www.livingiseasy.co.uk/prod/3005-XERIA_RX66HS_BIO_ENZYMATIC_STAINING,_FOULING_AND_FOUL_ODOUR_DIGESTER_SPRAY_PLUS_HIGH_PERFORMANCE_AIRX_ODOUR_ELIMINATION_TECHNOLOGY._NATURES_MIRACLE._Seeks_out_and_eliminates__surface_and_sub_surface_fouling,_foul_odours_and_stains._500ml.html

[lynda]

The only guide really is dont put  trays near their food or water.

I put the tray we have well away from his food, but when he toilets on the carpet, its always near his food and water bowls 

I will try and put the second tray back in but when he does actually decide to use them, its just the one tray that he'll always use!

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I think you need two trays at least but 3 would be better.

I have 3 cats and there are two trays in the front room......one is covered, one in kitchen, one in bedroom and two in the bathroom and m ost are getting used.

Two of the cats also use outside!

The only guide really is dont put  trays near their food or water.

[lynda]

Hi thanks for the reply!

I have tried giving treats when they are together, but to be honest, I daren't get too close for fear that Jess may eat me!! 

Jess has a cat tree type thing, we are just in the process of trying to find a half decent one for Gordon (we let him use Jess's when she is out at the minute) I love the idea of the cat shelves, but we live in a rented house, and I think my husband would draw the line at having them sitting on shelves, I've been trying for years but I cannot turn him in to a cat lover, he tollerates the cats to say the least 

Where is a good place to try and put his litter tray? When Jess was a kitten, we had it in our utility room but we have sinced moved and don't really have many spaces to put one and Jess generally just went wherever her tray was. I know it sounds a bit gross but the tray is in our living room at the moment, as I though it may encourage him to use the tray rather than the carpet, which clearly has not worked....

[funkiechicken]

Hi Lynda 

I second everything Susanne has said. Its never too late to stop and start again and of course it will give you time to address Gordons Toileting bad habits 

You could also try something from here:
http://www.spiritessences.com/category-s/1838.htm created by The Cat Daddy himself and I am ordering some for my 3 as I introduced my 10yr old to a 2yr old at Christmas and then a kitten in June  not all plain sailing and slowly getting more good times than bad. My kitten has "bonded" (well....its slightly more one sided than actual bonding  ) with my 2yr old, who in no uncertain terms, puts her in her place. It looks worse than it is but its how they teach the younger ones the rules and whos boss. On the other hand he looks out for her and is protective. She loves him, but never gives him a minutes peace and thats when she gets told off.
But it can often be one step forward, 2 steps back, but before Evie kitten arrived in June, I would say that the other 2 had reached a mutual understanding and co-existing and very much the same is happening now.

Once you start the re-intorduction of gordon and jess try the giving of treats so that Jess associates gordon with good things.
Also, do you have cat trees etc? I am in the process of designing some cheap cat shelving around my room and hall. This enable the cats to have the option of totally avoiding each other if they want and also as many cats naturally feel safer up high and they are less on edge because they can view everything from the shelf and see that all is well. Additionall its a good playground
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=diy+cat+shelving&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=M25nUIL-DuqR0AWgpYHQBQ&ved=0CDAQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=683

But to start, Susanne has it covered and it could sort the toilet issues, get them used to each other and prevent you having to rehome gordon 

With regards to the mice, Jess may feel a little neglected and is getting you gifts - mouse may not be your flavour  but she tried  Invest in a Da Bird for gordon as Susanne said and a Da Mouse for Jess (the shop here on Purrs is by far the cheapest in the country) A bit more interaction with you and playing all together may soften her a little. She's just feeling a bit jealous at the minute. Jess will also love the Valarian and purrffwheez range too. It stinks but by god cats love it!!! lol

Good Luck! and keep us updated!  even if they are never firm friends all this will help them to happily co-exist. Last week all 3 of mine were asleep in a row on my bed one morning. I came home and theres one spitting and the other punching  but its progress!! lol

 .......It all works too. This is where I got all my advice from just take it slow  x

[lynda]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply, its certainly given me some food for thought. Gordon had two trays, but I since reduced this down to one (Jess always goes outside!) as he took no notice of the other tray. Jess lives in our conservatory and has spent the majority of her time in there long before Gordon came along although now she seems reluctant to stay in the house for any period of time due to Gordon being around every corner waiting to pounce on her.

I may try changing his litter to some of the granules and see if that makes a difference, at the moment, I am cleaning it out daily as he will use a clean tray once, although he has been known to poo next to a totally fresh tray 

Will give the surgical spirit a go too next time I clean the carpet. I have got a plastic sheet down at the moment 

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Hi and welcome to Purrs.

Getting cats to tolerate each other can be a tricky business and some cats just don't get on whatever you do.  It does take time, but it's possible that Jess will never tolerate Gordon.  It's also possible that, in time, they will learn to happily co-exist but may never be best buddies.   I introduced a new kitten to my adult cat when he was 8 and fur flew to begin with but they soon tolerated each other, although my kitten took great delight in pouncing on my older cat and generally taunting him!  Now, 7 years on they even seem quite friendly with each other!

Do they both have free access of the house?  Did you introduce them gradually or just let them get on with it?  Jess's behaviour is perfectly normal for an adult cat who suddenly has a kitten to contend with and hissing at him is just her way of telling him she's in charge.  I wouldn't worry about her hissing and growling unless she's showing signs of being distressed or going out and not wanting to come back in the house.  Gordon's peeing outside the litter tray is a llittle worrying though, especially if he was ok to start with.  It might be worth getting him a check up at the vet, if you haven't already, to make sure there's no physical cause for that.  You then have 2 issues to deal with - Gordon's toileting and introductions.

I would then separate them, preferably by keeping Gordon in one room (so that Jess has the rest of the house and also Gordon has fewer places to pee outside of the tray) and you can use that opportunity to give the living room a good clean.  biological washing powder is good (or you can use a purpose bought product) but you need to make sure it penetrates right through to where any urine will have gone (could be throught to floorboards).  You need to let it soak through before you rinse and then dry.  A spritz of surgical spirit is good to finish off with.  It may take several days to dry off.  It might be worth trying Gordon with different types of litter.  Even though he used wood pellets where he came from, he might not be keen on them.  Wood pellets is the one litter that  my cats refused to use when I first got them and tried a variety of litters. They can be uncomfortable under foot for come cats.   Maybe something finer grained might help.  What type of litter tray do you have, how many trays and do you clean them regularly?  Some cats don't like hooded trays, others are very fussy about how often it is cleaned.  It may just be that something isn't to his liking.  The golden rule for number of trays is generally considered to be one per cat plus one, so for 2 cats it would be recommended you have 3 trays.  If you have fewer, try adding an extra one or two.  You might not need so many long term. 

Once you've separated them I would re-start introductions gradually, although I would not let Gordon into the living room until he seems happy using a litter tray and the carpet in there has been thoroughly cleaned so isn't retaining any odour.  Let them be together for a limited time each day, gradually increasing the time they spend together.  When they are apart you can exchange scents on blankets etc. to get them both used to each other's scent.  Basically I think you need to go back to square 1 and start over with introductions, but I would try to sort out Gordon's litter tray issues first.  If they are stress related then being separated may be all you need to do to sort that one out.

Have you tried feliway?  This comes as either a plug in or a spray and can be very effective in helping to calm cats in stressful situations such as during introductions to a new cat.   Try to play with Gordon when they are allowed together so that he has something to focus on other than Jess.  Also it might tire him out so that he then wants a sleep and if he's sleeping he will seem less threatening to Jess.  Something like da bird is great for getting cats to run around and use up all that kitten energy

http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/shop/index.php?route=product/search&keyword=da%20bird&category_id=0

It may be that this will not work out and you need to rehome Gordon, but it's probably worth another try as he's still young and excitable and is probably a bit scary for Jess!  Good luck and keep us updated.

[lynda]

Hi all,

Looking for a bit of advice please.

We have a 4 and a half year old cat, Jess, she has always been very territorial and doesn't particularly like people very much (except for me!) and as for cats, we assumed this would be the same!

Nonetheless, we decided to get another cat, partly as I thought Jess may warm to a companion, and secondly, as my daughter wanted to have a cat that wouldn't try to eat her! After much research, we decided that a male kitten would be best, so along came Gordon.

We have had Gordon for nearly 3 months and he and Jess are not showing any signs of ever becoming friends. Gordon like to chase her and she just hisses and growls at him whenever he is in her line of sight! More recently, litter trained Gordon has started to use our living room as his toilet too. He pees and poos all over the carpet. I have tried washed the carpets in biological washing powder as i'd read this was a good way of getting rid of the smell. I change his litter in his tray daily (he has wood pellets which is what he had at the rescue he came from) but this seems to make no difference, sometimes he'll use the tray, other times, he'll use the floor. I've tried putting foil down also to no avail, he just toilets on top of it and is not bothered.

To be honest, the whole situation is really starting to get me down, we love both of our cats dearly but cannot cope with the fighting, and also Gordon's toilet habits and are also worried about the affect that the fighting may be having on Gordon (although he is generally a very happy go lucky liitle soul).

To make things worse, Jess, is now starting to bring mice in to us on a regular basis, not always dead ones too, which is not so bad as she lives in the conservatory, but catching the little blighters is hard work as last week, she brought 5 in in one night 

I know that getting cats to be friends can be a long drawn out process, but I'd really appreciate any advice on the toiletting and the squabbling!

If things don't improve, the only way I can see to make things better is by taking little Gordon back to the rescue