Possible Vidalta side-effects?

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Try making a list of what you need to ask and speak to vet tomorrow.............sounds like he is not very helpful and keeps all info to self.

On the results it shows the level of your cats and the normal level so you can see what is high or low.

Get all thew results printed from them , you have paid for them after all.

Why does this always happen at a weekend or worse at a long bank holiday.......sigh

[AlliBalli]

Hi Rosella

My vet didn't show or explain to me any of Opal's test results.. The most I have learned is from here and Yahoo hyperT forum..

I initially took Opal to the vet due to she had lost weight quite quickly, and bloods were taken. I asked that they tested Opal for everything, and they just told me that she was hyperT, and everything else was okay.

I am going to ask for the blood results, as she has had the first with the diagnosis, and the 10 days later another lot done when I had to return due to her wobbliness, and not eating...They said the second bloods were all fine, and when I rang this week with my concerns, the vet said in passing that Opal's last bloods showed her thyroid as normal..But I don't know any details as what that means...

Now I know a little more (from here, with thanks) I really think I need to see the vets and ask them to explain to me why they have started her on such a high dose ...Its just all so confusing as they just dish out the meds, send you home, without any explanation....Maybe its my fault for not asking more!!


 

[AlliBalli]

Thanks Louise & Carol for the further info..

Are you saying that as Opal is off Vidalta until Monday that this could be harmful?

Do you think I should get her to the vet tomorrow and get her started on a new medication asap?

I have never had a hyperT cat, so its all very new to me..I just am at my wits end as to what to do for the best..I don't want to make a mistake, and cause her more problems..

I didn't question the vet taking her off the Vidalta for the 5 days, as I do think it has caused her extra problems...I did think that 5 days without the pill would help get it out of her system, and then a re-start with a new drug would be a fresh start...Is that correct procedure??

At the moment Opal seems fine off the the tablet, and definitely isn't so wobbly today, and she was having a little groom earlier, which she hasn't done for a while...I have been wiping her over with baby wipes, and giving a gentle brush through with a soft baby brush.. But she still is looking sad and awful condition.

Thanks for all you help and advice everyone, and I have joined the Yahoo hyperT forum, where I have had lots of advice and help there also..It seems everybody has the same opinions of Vidalta..

I am learning so much from you all, and when I return to the vet, I will be armed with so much info on the illness, thanks to you all 

THANK-YOU 
Allison  

[Rosella moggy]

I think one reason that vets prescribe Vidalta is that it is only one tablet a day (rather than two with Felimazole) which is easier for owners esp with difficult to pill cats.  Problem is though that Vidalta doesn't come in low enough dose to start treatment on low dose.

Have to say, I hate Vidalta (due to probs I had with Thomas RIP) altho I know that others on here have had good results with their cats. 

My mom's cat Susan (very small cat) was diagnosed HyperT last summer and, sure enough, Vidalta was the opening gambit of vet which I refused and insisted on lowest poss dose of Felimazole.  She went Hypo on 2 tabs a day and now takes only 1 tab of 2.5mg Felimazole a day. 

Fred RIP had both kidney and borderline thyroid probs.  As the hyperT was only mild and actually helping his kidneys, we never did treat the thyroid condition. 

It is important that you read as much as you can Allison and get a copy of blood test results.  I assume kidneys tested as well as thyroid?  As you read up, make notes of questions you want to ask your vet.  Each cat is different and will respond in it's own way to treatment.  What does however seem to be a common thread though is that medicating from a low dose and increasing as necessary seems to be a safe way to proceed.

This is not a bad place to start reading.  Although the site itself is more devoted to kidney probs (CRF), hyperT is quite common with cats who suffer from CRF   http://www.felinecrf.org/hyperthyroidism.htm

The vet told me today that at her last blood work her thyroid was normal, whatever that is, but she is still on the 10mg dose of Vidalta.

Have you any idea what the difference was between the result of blood test 6 weeks ago when first diagnosed compared to what "normal" was at last test?  If not, you need to find out to get some idea of how much Opal's condition has altered.  I understand normal range can vary with age and with each cat and you need to be aware that HyperT can mask underlying kidney problems .....  It's a complicated illness as the thyroid impacts on so many major organs.

Sending every possible good wish to Opal  and you for that matter 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Is Opal doing Ok without the drugs?

[LouiseJ]

Allison
Please just keep asking questions. I was new to Purrs this time last year and it was my absolute rock.
I would also echo Carol's view on doseage. Too much of what is, in effect, a downer too quickly would cause a massive shock to the system and with most cats tending to become hyper in their senior years it is probably too much strain on their systems in some cases.
Thyroid hormone was once described to me as the oil which lubricates the systems of the body - too much and your systems work too fast, too little and they rust up. I would challenge the vet on putting Opal on and off medication as she'll swing hyper to hypo and back in a very short cycle. Graves' disease is the human equivalent of hyper and hashimoto's can give you the short term highs and lows where you can feel on top of the world, then tip into hyper then crash into hypo for no external reason.
Keep chatting on here, some people as you have seen have extensive knowledge and can offer practical advice, everyone though will be kind and understanding.
 
Louise x

[CarolM (Wendolene)]

sadly there are too many vets who know too little about HyperT - ....

Kay has hit the nail on the head with this.  Whilst It is my personal opinion that Vidalta is subject to more problems than the other oral hyper-T treatments for the reasons that I stated on Anjie’s thread http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,42835.0.html any of the hyper-T drugs can have these effects if started at too high a dose – which sadly is not uncommon.


The easiest way to explain what happens is to liken hyperthyroidism to drug addiction.  Although the drug (or in this case the excess thyroid hormone) is harmful, the body gets used to it and becomes dependent on it.  Sudden withdrawal can have very unpleasant and sometimes life-threatening consequences.  The greater the amount of drug the addict is taking and/or the longer he has been taking drugs, the greater is the shock to the system when he withdraws .  The same is true for the hyperthyroid cat.  The higher the thyroid levels, and/or the longer the cat has been hyperthyroid prior to treatment, the greater the chance of an adverse reaction to treatment.  Attitudes of vets are changing (thank goodness) but the message hasn’t got through to everybody yet.  Some vets still think that a high initial dose is called for in order to correct the problem quickly.


Of course this is an oversimplification and many other factors can affect how a cat reacts to treatment but if they were all started on a low dose and gradually increased as necessary, then I’m sure we wouldn’t have so many sad stories like these.  Getting the dose right can take time (and many expensive blood tests) but its worth it in the end.


My heart goes out to all of you who are suffering.   

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

This is all so tragic 

Please also print off Carols techi stuff from the other thread because to me as a layperson, feel this has something to do with the whole story.

Sending loads of good wishes to Opal 

[AlliBalli]

Hi Anjie & Louise

Im so sorry to hear both of your devastating news, and I have decided after everything I have read about this drug that Opal will not be going back on it..

The vet told me to take Opal off the drug for 5 days, and put her back on them Monday, which I won't be..So I have made an appointment for Tuesday to discuss other treatment, and also I am going to print off all the bad stories and show them to whichever vet I see..

Its terrible that this medication is allowed to be on the market with so many sad ending stories...I dont think the vet will like our conversation on Tuesday..

Thank you for replying to my question at such a difficult time for you both 
I appreciate your help, and I will keep you all informed how things go
Allison xxx

[LouiseJ]

Sorry, I have trouble with this post as the subject matter is so raw for me still and the events of last year are still very much with me but Chelsea's experience was similar to Smokeys although it was a brain tumour not a stroke which was the root cause.
She had no symptoms of this prior to vidalta and I do have an issue with the vet not picking up on her standing in corners pressing her head against the wall and leaving it for RVC to give her an MRI when they had the capability and could have checked sooner when she was not so weak.
I wish I had pressed RVC for the biopsy results to find out how aggressive the tumour had been as that would have given a clue as to the possible role of vidalta in this.
Thyroid issues aren't that well understood by vet or doctor. It's a subject I have quite strong views on and would urge anyone to, as Kay says, join support groups as the experience of others in a similar situation could well be invaluable.

[Anjie]

Hi Alli,
Like you I found this site whilst my poor old fur baby was having trouble after being prescribed these pills. Before the tablets she was a very lively and loving albeit skinny, 17 and a half year old girl. After being on the tablets, initial dose of 15mg per day she soon became very lethargic and quiet. Her bloods were re-tested and her levels had gone up! So she was prescribed a higher dose of 20mg per day. However before she started on the new dose one night she appeared to  me to have a stroke, her back end collapsed and she lost bladder control. Of course I took her to the vets and after a  lot of umming and r-ing they gave her a steroid injection and prescribed some heart pills for her racing heart. I took her home and nursed her through the night, making sure she was eating and drinking. The day after she improved slightly and the vet was happy with her so didn't want to see her for another 2 days, during which she improved even more, she was walking again although very wobbly, and she once again became her lovable self. So when I went back 2 days later the vet said all was fine and to start her on the higher dose, which I did on the following day. 2 days later she had another stroke and this time the vet said it was enough, her poor little body couldn't take any more, she had dropped to 1.9kg. So sadly last Tuesday I had to say goodbye to the most precious thing in my life. I told the vet that I blamed these tablets as when she was off of them she improved and as soon as she went back on them that was it. The vet said maybe so! I was so angry I wasn't told of the side effects before I gave her them, if so I would have been more aware of what to look out for, and no way would I have put her back on them. I just wish I'd done the research before hand, as for the past week I've cried more or less no stop as I blame myself for what I put my poor baby through. I'm crying now as I'm typing this which has taken me a few hours to do. Please, please, please, don't put your beautiful Opal back on these horrendous tablets, speak to the vet about an alternative, or if her levels are normal, just let her live her life normally.

I really think something should be done about this as the more I look into it, the more angry I am becoming that our fur babies are suffering because of this tablet!

If you want to ask me any questions feel free to ask, or pm me if you would prefer and I'll do my utmost to help you.

[Kay and Penny]

sounds very much as if she has been overdosed and become hypo, which is not unusual with Vidalta

sadly there are too many vets who know too little about HyperT - and I'm afraid yours may well be one of them, as he surely should have suggested trying Felimazole rather than taking her off all medication

do look at the Yahoo support group for owners of HyperT cats - you will get a lot of useful information on there, and will find it easier to get the right treatment for your cat if your vet realises you know what you're talking about

having her off the Vidalta meanwhile should help very short term, but I would be very reluctant to go back to it -  in my opinion (which is almost entirely from what I've learnt from the Yahoo group) she should be put on a low dose of Felimazole - no more than two doses of 2.5mg a day, and even better, given her reaction to Vidalta, one 2.5mg pill cut in half twice a day to start, given that her T4 came down so quickly on Vidalta - you may well be told you can't cut the pills, but if you use a pill cutter and  rubber gloves or tweezers, and don't let the cut bits come in contact with your skin, there is no danger

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

There are two threads and have brought them to the top for you and have also pmed you.

[AlliBalli]

Oh that would be great, as I did search Vidalta, but just got this thread
Thankyou Gill
 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

There is another thread , should be in this section, and will try and bring it up for you.

[AlliBalli]

Hi everyone

I'm a new member who joined the group today as I was searching for info on the drug Vidalta, and really need some advice and info..

My cat Opal was diagnosed with hyperT 6 weeks ago and was put on this drug...Opal hasn't improved and is lethargic, can hardly walk as she has a very wobbly gait, and I have difficulty getting her to eat...

At the beginning of her treatment, she could walk normally, but I noticed her abnormal gait just a few days after treatment. I took her back to the vet, as I was so worried, and he asked when did this wobbliness start, to which I replied that its strange as its been ever since she started the medication! He decided that her gait was probably due to muscle wastage because of her weight loss, she weighed just 2.3kg! But he felt she was also de-hydrated, and was kept in and put on a drip....After this she was no better, and now the vet said her problems are neurological..!

He never once told me this could be a side effect of Vidalta, and she has steadily gotten worse, rather than improve...

She has gained a little weight, and her coat isn't as greasy as it was, but she looks so awful, and sometimes I look at her and think should I let her carry on like this..

But last night was the last straw as she fell down four stairs..So this morning I researched this drug only to find many people have had similar problems..I spoke with the vet, and raised these concerns, and was told to take her off the drug until Monday...

I have a few issues with the vet which I have to raise. One being her heart is so rapid at 240, and the vet hasn't prescribed anything for this due to the rise is usual with hyperT cats, and the fact that the meds "should" help with this.  The vet told me today that at her last blood work her thyroid was normal, whatever that is, but she is still on the 10mg dose of Vidalta..

So as from tomorrow, Opal is off the Vidalta for 5 days, has a very rapid heartbeat, so will be on no medication at all...!

The vet seemed very unconcerned about this, but to be honest I am very concerned, more about her heart..

Any advice would be great..
Thanks

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Sending lots of good wishes for Chelsea 

[LouiseJ]

 

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Oh Louise     Sending lots of positive vibes for Chelsea's recovery.  It must be a relief to know what the cause of her behaviour change was, and trusting all will be well following the surgery.

[LouiseJ]

Well RvC have been fabulous.

It turns out her strange behaviour has been down to a meningioma brain tumour so my baby is currently recovering in intensive care.

Now to sort her thyroid out but I don't think I want to put her through anymore surgery.

All I can say is don't give up and thank god for insurance!!!

Louise

[LouiseJ]

Hi Mel

Thank you!

I have to say, being hypothyroid myself, that doses must surely vary according to the severity of the overactivity and according to the cats size and i definitely think she is hypo.

Chelsea was ok this morning after a really bad day yesterday (she's not the same cat as she was three weeks ago but ok based on recent history) and when I got back this afternoon but has been wandering around half asleep again for the last hour or so and falling over so she has now been put firmly on her bed in the hope she'll have a sleep and stop wandering round.

I'm really glad that Toby is getting on well after his stroke - just proves you can't write a good cat off!!

Will post tomorrow when I get back from RvC.

Here's to Toby!

L

[MelB]

Hi Louise

I'm so sorry to hear about Chelsea.  Your situation sounds very similar to mine.  I have to say I don't know what to do about the HyperT either, as I too think the alternative treatment will have the same effect as the Vidalta.  I just wonder though whether 10 mg Vidalta is too strong to start with.  I have certainly read a lot of stuff (mainly in the USA) that suggests that the best course of action is to start at a low dose and move up gradually.  I wonder whether my Toby became hypotensive in the end because he was so lifeless and whether me stopping the tablet caused a surge in his levels resulting in a stroke.  I'ts just a guess and I'm certainly no expert.

Toby is doing really well since the stroke and is pretty much back to his old self, so things might not be as bad as they seem for you at the moment.  I really hope that this is the case.  I would certainly be interested to know what your vet has to say - you  would expect them to know what they are doing at the Royal Veterinary College!

I will keep my fingers cross for you and Chelsea 

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Topping up the hugs  and hoping that Toby and Chelsea have had a better night.   

[LouiseJ]

Well she came in from the vets, ate and threw it all up this morning.  I was asked about "options" this morning and there is no way I'm letting that happen unless it truly is for the best.
I'll just keep getting up and checking on her tonight again and then hope she doesn't stress too much on Wednesday morning as it will take us about 45 mins to get to there.

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Louise    Our vet was not optimistic either, and regularly told us he'd be surprised if Paddy didn't worsen "soon" but each time he saw him he expressed anew his surprise at how well Paddy was managing.    I'm a firm believer in one step at a time, and taking each day as it comes. 

Paddy would eat like a horse, and would sometimes bring up bile, but on the whole he managed well under supervision.

[LouiseJ]

Thank you. I've spent the last few days feeling so helpless. She's just been making her way round the kitchen by walking along the walls and then stops for a rest by wedging her head against something to hold her steady.
Vet reckoned she'll last no more than a max six months without the meds but we'll take heart in Paddy's story x

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

I just wanted to send positive thoughts for Toby and for Chelsea.

Our former cat, my beloved Paddy, had a stroke at 15.  It was a severe stroke which left him deaf, and it was touch and go for 48 hours immediately after.  His head was tilted to one side, he was disorientated and would yowl regularly because he found everything very confusing, and needed a lot of reassurance.  Our vet told us he didn't think he would make it, but that it was better and less stressful for Paddy if we took him home, kept him quiet and in a dim, restful atmosphere to see how things resolved. 

However, he went on to make a very good recovery, although also being diagnosed with Hyper-T shortly afterwards.  Medicating him was our only option, but he steadfastly refused to accept pills, no matter what we tried, and we all got very stressed trying to make the medication thing work.

Ultimately, our vet advised against medicating as the stress was having more of an adverse effect on Paddy.  Instead, we had regular 3 monthly checks.  He became thinner over time, but following his stroke lived for another five years which, as a few here can testify, were fulfilled, active and happy years.  In the end his kidneys failed which was something we knew would happen, but he lived far longer than we initially believed would be possible.

Am hoping this will give you some comfort, and to let you know that sometimes there are more ways than the obvious to approach a problem. 

We always said that we would let Paddy set the pace, and quality of life was our main guide.

 

[LouiseJ]

Hi
Just been reading your post. Me and Chelsea are new here but it was your post that prompted me to join.  She is 18 in a couple of weeks and has always been healthy but we'd noticed she'd got thin and mentioned this to the vet when she went for her jabs. Turned out she is hyperthyroid (T4 93 against a 19 -50 reference range) and she was put on 10 mcgs of vidalta on 14th Feb only to come off them by the 24th as she was so disorientated and not herself. Slowly we saw an improvement and I discussed herbal remedies and homeopathy with the vet who supported me in going to a herbalist vet who suggested a homeopathic remedy. That arrived Saturday, she had the required three doses and then two yesterday and I ended up taking her back to the vet this morning as she was staggering around and falling over trying to walk.
I've gone from having a feisty old lady full of character if a bit on the thin side to having a rag doll of a cat I've been trying to hand feed and get water down by syringe.
All the vet can suggest (she had a very thorough exam today) is to refer her to a specialist so I'm hoping she holds out until Wednesday when we're off to the Royal Veterinary College.
I just want to know if anyone has tried anything else as the vet reckons she'll have a similar reaction to the other thyroid med.
I'm desperate to get my cat back - she was fine until she went on Vidalta
L

[Gillian Harvey]

My vet doesnt tend to medicatate if T4 is borderline/slightly raised.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I think its something to seriously talk to your vet about and ask what they would do if it was their cat............that usually makes them think!

Sometimes its better  not to medicate but it has to be done with full knowledge of the outcome.

My inclination would be not to medicate this early but to keep a check of the levels and how your cat is acting.

Seizures are a terrible thing to watch and my late Napoleon had them for 2 years plus but they dont remember what happens and cats cant swallow their tongues. They can however do you a lot of damage with their thrashing claws so always wise to have a pillow close to protect yourself but never hold them down, just keep em safe from sharp things.

I used to give Napoleon injections for 7 days after a seizure with a very powerful ab cos it was thought that he had a brain infection rather than epilepsy.

The medicine for epilepsy is very strong and will knock a cat sideways for a month or so after starting , so one really needs to be sure that its needed before going that route.

[MelB]

Hi all

Toby was looking very unwell and spaced out for the first couple of days after his seizure and I have to say I was rather worried about him.  However, he really has started to pick up now and he's pretty much back to his old self.  I can't believe it and I just wanted to say thanks everyone for your kind wishes . 

The problem I am faced with now is what to do about the HyperT treatment.  I still firmly believe that all this was brought on by the Vidalta and if I start a different tablet I don't know whether this is going to happen again.

I know that HyperT is a serious condition but his T4 was only slightly raised and I just can't seem to face giving him something that might cause a seizure - what a conundrum!

[Janeyk]

Hope Toby is still doing well 

[Stuart]

Brilliant News, So chuffed for ya!! 
Give the wee Mannie a Hug fae me too 

[Tiggy's Mum]

Pleased to hear he's picked up  Go Toby! 

[Rosella moggy]

At some point, when you are both more settled, it might be helpful to make some notes of what happened and when, so you are more prepared in the event that Toby starts to show hyperT symptoms again.  Start with what symptoms Toby showed that made you take him to vet initially and go from there. 

Also insist on copies of all the blood tests that were done.  Just explain you will find it helpful to see these to help you understand what happened.  They are surprisingly easy to follow as they give the result and then the "normal" range next to it.  I think some can be a little trickier than others as "normal" can differ depending on cat's age.  Think normal T4 range gets lower with age.  Need also to bear in mind that hyperT cats can sometimes have underlying problems that become more apparent when thyroid more under control. Sorry he is not insured but that would have cost a fair bit given his age.

Following on from Tom's illness and sadly pts a few years ago, I always now request copies of blood tests. I was convinced at the time that UK vets were generally giving too high doses too quickly esp for borderline hyperT cats.  I thought that practice had changed tbh.  I know Fred was borderline hyperT but vet didn't treat as it was helping his kidney problems.

Am so pleased that he has made such a marked recovery 

[Liz]

We have Smudger feral here who had a stroke last November and the vets thought his prognosis would be poor so home we came with some very strong antibiotics and steroids in injection form and now its March his head tilt is far less pronounced and he eats for Scotland and is now walking around a lot more and seems happy in himself so they can recover a lot of tlc and treats worked for us so good luck

[MelB]

Thanks everyone for your support it's much appreciated 

I've just spoken to the vet and she said he is doing brilliantly - in fact she can't believe how lively he is for a cat of that age!  Everything seems to have returned to normal after the stroke.  I've read a few posts on other websites about people having their pets pts after a stroke, but on reading up on the subject, it does in fact seem that the prognosis for cats is generally pretty good.   

I can take him home tonight - I can't wait to give him lots of cuddles  .  The house seemed empty this morning without him.  I even started preparing his breakfast this morning out of habit!

I guess I will be a bit more neurotic than usual over the next few days, watching for any signs of this happening again.  The vet has said it's difficult to know what caused this and he would have to have lots of tests including MRI to confirm a diagnosis.  I don't think I'm going to put him through all that and I have to be sensible as unfortunately I don't have any pet insurance!

I have been told that if he continues to have seizures then there is treatment to control this.  As long as he is happy and not suffering that is the main thing. 

[Janeyk]

All the very best for Toby poor love, sending hugs for him and hope he's soon much better   

I know that each case is individual but just to say that I have 2 hyperthyroid cats doing very well on Vidalta and have had other cats - and been hyperthyroid myself.  Thyroid very much affects all other organs in the body so it's such a complex illness.  I hope that things settle down now for Toby and he makes a wonderful recovery very soon.   

[HelenD]

Oh thats great news Mel - got my fingers and toes crossed he keeps getting better! 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

This is the link to the quote

http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,23803.msg417812.html#msg417812

Sadly as you will see Jersey girl didnt come back but what Desley said in the last post sounds very relevant. Also earlier in the thread someone says the tablets cant be split and taste foul.

I am so pleased that Toby has taken a turn for the better and hope it continues 

The tablets definately cannot be split and have to given at same time of day every day.

Just adding some links although you may have seen these and they are not necessarily very helpful maybe

http://www.fabcats.org/owners/hyperthyroidism/info.html

Next link is very old but I think interesting and is over active not under as stated in link

http://www.catforum.com/forum/38-health-nutrition/125610-underactive-thyroid-cats.html

This is another link from Purrs and Rosella is still an active member and is about the same age as the link above

http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php?topic=16905.0

From what I have been reading am wondering that because the T4 level only slightly elevated, whether Toby is actually hyperT at all and that this is masking something else?  I am no expert on this unlike others on Purrs.

Sending lots of good wishes