Topic: Taking clapton off fortekor (Read 38480 times)

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #144 on:** June 20, 2007, 16:30:12 PM »

Quote from: swampmaxmum on June 20, 2007, 14:07:26 PM

have you seen that crf info forum (I'm out of the loop here, so excuse me) which suggests that in America they use sub cutaneous fluids rather than any drug. Is it just the UK where the vets love Fortekor?

It certainly seems that way from what I've seen of the forum, although they do use fortekor or something similar in the US. Helen states on her felinecrf.org website that giving subq fluids to her cat was the reason for setting up the website. Luckily my vet was happy for me to give Suzie fluids, but she's also having fortekor.

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #143 on:** June 20, 2007, 14:07:26 PM »

have you seen that crf info forum (I'm out of the loop here, so excuse me) which suggests that in America they use sub cutaneous fluids rather than any drug. Is it just the UK where the vets love Fortekor?

Mark · « **Reply #142 on:** June 07, 2007, 20:09:11 PM »

Well I got him some Whiskas senior in jelly in a little petshop in Faversham today (cheaper than the supermarket) and he wolfed it down, fortekor & all

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #141 on:** June 07, 2007, 12:37:23 PM »

you'll have to try when he's half asleep, open his mouth and voila! You 'may' get bitten though

Fortekor's one of the easier ones though as it doesn't appear to taste too disgusting. I misfired once with Max and he duly ate it. Unless it was the one I found pouched and spat some time later....

Mine are now on a mix of i/d and blended k/d. I may try some l/d too. I find it hard to believe that "one size fits all" with multiple complaints and really believe that it's so important that they enjoy food- otherwise you'll have hell feeding them, cos they don't look forward to it.
Then again, I won't be doing the real chicken thing unless I have to, as they could get seriously used to that. It must though be more digestible than any cat food as when Swampy's ALT was 1500+ he kept it down for 10 hours, whereas all cat foods came up in 1hr to 3hrs.

Hills are part of colgate palmolive but they still have customer service and some of them are helpful. I'd have a go at Whiskas/Mars, you never know.

Mark · « **Reply #140 on:** June 07, 2007, 12:26:23 PM »

I tried giving a pill manually last night and you would have thought I was trying to kill him. If I have some ham in the house, its the best way to go. I read an article slating k/d the other day saying that there are too many carbs in it and they could end up with a protein deficiencny. I did speak to Whiskas a couple of weeks ago to get phos content of their various foods. They are owned by Masterfoods (Mars) so the personal service won't happen. The vet said that any senior food is the next best thing to prescription, apart from Chicken & fish. He's not that bad yet that I will resort to junk food. I think someting like a diet of icecream would be OK for a very old cat that refuses all else but I think clapton has a way to go so I have to make sure he gets decent food with taurine etc in it.

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #139 on:** June 07, 2007, 11:59:58 AM »

Can you not get a pill down his gob when he's offguard?!

I have to do that as they 'filter' out any pills from their food.

Your vet seems quite clued up on nutrition, which is unusual. I've found most leave it to the pet food company vets, which is probably ok but I would like an independent opinion too.
As for phosphorus levels, did your vet suggest what is an acceptable range per say 100g of phosphorus? Kidney diets are low (38g in the case of k/d) but what counts as too high, do you know?
If you get desperate, my friend in Yorkshire emailed to say her little guy (he had a stomach ulcer and refused to eat) has only eaten vanilla icecream for quite some weeks now. Very high in fat, but does it have any phosphorus?!!!!
Have you tried ringing the parent co of Whiskers and asking if you can buy directly from them - tell them about Clapton and you may get a good price?

Mark · « **Reply #138 on:** June 07, 2007, 10:18:09 AM »

He ate some breakfast. There wasn't much he fancied as he didn't like the sainsburys own. Sainsbury's don't sell whiskas senior in jelly (nor do tesco)
I found a Tesco senior pate in the back of the cupboard which he ate. I wasted 3 fortekor last night as they melted into the food so he wouldn't eat. I tried the cream cheese thing. He licked all the cheese off and left a soggy pill

Anyway, I will have to get to an Asda or Morrisons to get some Whiskas senior in Jelly later (lower phos than regular)

I was pleased than he has gained another few ounces in 3 weeks

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #137 on:** June 07, 2007, 09:55:16 AM »

Whatever Clapton feels like noshing sounds a good idea. Hope he has a good appetite today

Mark · « **Reply #136 on:** June 06, 2007, 17:49:50 PM »

Latest episode.

Just got back from the vets. I told him Clapton won't eat prescription and isgoing off chicken and fish. I said he is eating some regular and some senior. The vet said he had gained more weight and looking better so if that works for him, carry on giving him whatever he wants

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #135 on:** June 05, 2007, 10:19:44 AM »

Hi Mark, I posted a long diatribe about what my vet said in the boiled chicken vs fish in the dishwasher thread! Basically though forgot to say, the vet thinks early morning is a good time if it's making the cat fussy about eating and lethargic as they tend to eat more before the pill (in the morning) and then at night when it's cooler and they are hungrier.
Hope Mr C noshes today.

Mark · « **Reply #134 on:** June 04, 2007, 17:32:50 PM »

I don't have a set time but as from yesterday he gets it with his breakfast - which hopefully is around 7am - but on an offday can be 7pm

(have to laugh - or cry)

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #133 on:** June 04, 2007, 14:22:50 PM »

Yes, it's a really difficult decision but I agree, if they live longer but sleep all the time....?? The vets are fixated on how great it is. I just hope that if I decide not to keep him on them, that when the proverbial hits the fan (which it will) he's not sniffy about treating him.
His readings are only just above normal which I know means that a big % of his kidney function is gone. I wondered at what point the disease became 'advanced' and fortekor may be really essential or worth another go?

I think (I know vet doesn't agree!) Swampy was agitated and nervy when he started the pills. He's been pulling hair out from near his tail. He last did that in France after a major op and had a curative short course of cortisone to stop the nervous habit. (that worked). The vet thinks he couldn't get blood from him too easily at the vet (4 attempts over 2 days) cos he's now deaf; I'm not so sure. I think he was hyper from the pill. Then he got sedated, as did Max - who has had less side effects, but food fussiness increased and so did kipping. The vet does accept lethargy is a side effect but nothing else.
I am already chancing it with his bp as Istin sent his ALT right up. He should be on Istin as his bp is 200 odd+ at the vet's, only a bit lower when done on his tail.

I find the literature and articles are all single issued based ie your cat has high bp do this; your cat has CRF do that; liver disease do the other; there's nothing I've seen which takes account of the fact that old kittycats have multiple health issues. Then we as owners have to make life and death decisions and sometimes argue with the vets - who know a lot, but don't live with our cats do they.
Wish me luck for tomorrow!!!! Vet is so vague that I texted him about diarrhoea and he left me a nice message about Swampy's vomiting! He's a good vet and nice guy but if there was a pill for vagueness, he should self-medicate

Hope Clapton's eating? Do you give fortekor at about 6am, then he may eat about 11pm?! Trouble is, if he's like mine, he won't eat too much in one go. all the best. Sorry for long rant.

smudgepickles · « **Reply #132 on:** June 03, 2007, 22:02:31 PM »

Its such a heart wrenching decision with the babies and their medication. Its like all meds I suppose like people, some it has bad side effects and others none. I know Bella is 25 but if you remember before Christmas she was very poorly and was diagnosed as having late stage CRF they put her on Fortekor, It absolutely knocked her silly and she slept for 23 and a half hours a day I gave it a few days and she just slept. I made the decision that she had little time left and with sleeping and no appetite she might as well not be here and I quickly took her off them.

They took a few days to get out of her system and she is like a kitten again. She does have the odd day where she takes herself off to the airing cupboard and I know she feels a little poorly but for the most part she is a happy little bunny who has a run around everyday if only for a few Min's a day............I'm glad on this occasion I made the decision to take Bella off them

I hope you all manage to get your babies sorted out soon

Hugs and head kisses

xx

Mark · « **Reply #131 on:** June 03, 2007, 16:15:35 PM »

I had the same issue. I thought he took it last night but it was still in the dish. He was after breakfast as soon as I got up (clapton is a polite cat a waits for you to get up

) He had it this morning so lets see what the appetite is like later. I have on pill left so don't know whether to order a repeat. I don't begrudge to £20 a month for it but if they make him feel bad, I'm not so sure. Its a difficult choice as If I don't give them he will deteriorate faster

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #130 on:** June 03, 2007, 12:59:33 PM »

Mark - no fortekor today for either cat. Max is miaowing for lunch; something he's not done for quite a few days. Hmm.

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #129 on:** June 02, 2007, 23:32:21 PM »

what's Clapton's liver like these days (ALT etc)? I wondered if cats with dodgy or sensitive livers were susceptible. It is metabolised 100% by cats in the liver.
Did you read the FABCats' page on Fortekor, Mark? They are not quite as enthusiastic, offering other solutions which may be appropriate if Fortekor makes a cat feel grot. But the clinical trial figures on survival rates are impressive and it seems worth it IF the quality of life is maintained. They say weight gain, increased appetite.....I wonder if the reverse can't happen too, like some cats take Valium and instead of sedating, it makes them hyper?? Dunno too much about pharmacology.

My 2 woke up briefly at about 9pm to use the litter tray - having been totally out of it all day - and I managed to get a small slither of i/d down Swampy (who is now fast asleep again). Max seems hungry but won't eat anything I put in front of him. They seem to be sedated.
None of this was the case just a few days ago. I'm going to persevere tomorrow and try to speak to the vet on monday (his busiest day) but he's not one to concentrate...he will only do so when the blood results are in, which may be mon night or tues. If Swampy or Max won't eat at all, he may focus. But he's convinced that it will do them good.

does anyone know with liver patients (who have to eat), just how much do they have to eat p.d or it's dangerous?

Mark · « **Reply #128 on:** June 02, 2007, 22:30:10 PM »

The food thing with clapton is a real issue, the vet said its not normal but ther are always exceptions to the rule. Its hard to know what to do for the best.

Millys Mum · « **Reply #127 on:** June 02, 2007, 19:00:41 PM »

Keep going until Mon and then discuss with the vet, a cat at work who started fortekor didnt seem to go off his food but then he is in a run and isnt as monitored as an at home cat.

Have you any normal cat food you can offer him, better he eats something than nothing.

Chin rubs to Swampy

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #126 on:** June 02, 2007, 18:42:34 PM »

I'm really worried as for the first time since Swampy came home from hospital in early october, he's completely off his food. He ate 1/6th can l/d this morning but has just licked at k/d today. Normally by now (6.30pm) he would be almost at a can, which has been his daily intake for months, even when ill with the liver problem.

It has to be the Fortekor?? I'm not sure if I should take him off it tomorrow or continue until monday. If he doesn't eat tonight or tomorrow morning, I'm not giving it to him. He was doing so much better until a few days ago - I wonder if the 'creatinine rises initially' has just kicked in now after 10 days on it. I can't think of any other explanation. He is also lethargic.
Max is ok but not as hungry as I would have expected either. Yesterday the food probs started but they ate 1/4 at 11pm but so far have lost about 150g in weight in a couple of days. For Max that's prob not such a problem as for Swampy.

If this is what Fortekor does to him, it's no quality of life. I wonder if it makes the liver patients worse?? Anyhow same probs as Clapton and it's a nightmare. He's so old suddenly; missing his jump ups again. Clingy.

Any ideas anyone?! He was ok up until Friday. The blood results aren't back yet.

Mark · « **Reply #125 on:** June 01, 2007, 18:14:27 PM »

Tell me about it. Clapton has become so picky thesedays. We had a good run of him eating all day every day but today he is on hunger strike so far. He only got off the sofa 1/2 hour ago. I follwed him upstairs thinking he wanted feeding but he was just going on patrol. If he thinks I am tring to make him eat, he won't so I will hold off a bit and see if he comes to me

. The k/d wasn't such a success but I am going to persevere with it.

I just stopped and he ate some tesco food. He rejected the new k/d (well he licked a bit of gravy)

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #124 on:** June 01, 2007, 16:10:15 PM »

the more I switch around, the fussier they seem to get, the little devils. Right now, I have Max refusing all but i/d (IS it too high in phosphorus as although it has a 50% refusal rate, that means that he'll nosh it half the time! when nothing else goes down except for stuff he thinks he's not allowed...ie small amounts left strategically on Swamp's plate aka Cat Psychology!!). Swampy's fast going off his l/d and will only nibble at it and then look around for something nicer. Which is i/d (I try not to give him that as he does eat other nosh) or k/d.
Someone on here (forgive, but I can't remember) said that they blended their k/d minced chicken because the rice bits are off putting. God forbid that Hills make it dry and solid like the old style k/d but has anyone else tried blending it and does it come out in a fashion likely to appeal to fussy felines?!

Mark I think the Fortekor has made them fussier, no question. Waiting for blood results later today or Monday as I guess the lab won't send them through for tomorrow.
It is sooo hard to stick to one suitable food when their illness means that you can't starve them, but I guess I am going to try to persevere with the l/d and k/d mix.

One i/d print out from Hills' site has the phosphorus at 71g and the other has it at 80g. I was reading a CRF site which said ideally under 100 - would that be right? K/d is 38 and is obviously the best, but if they won't eat it.....

Mark · « **Reply #123 on:** May 31, 2007, 19:08:59 PM »

Well I went out this pm and wanted to get clapton good & hungry to try out his new k/d chunks in gravy. He ate 1/2 then came looking for someting different. I have just mixed in a bit on whiskas senior and he's eating. I really thought it was going to be another £20 down the drain. I have tried every k/d food going and have loads in the cupboard

Nick (Peanut & Boo) · « **Reply #122 on:** May 31, 2007, 13:52:11 PM »

thank ya lucky stars we are not talking about crabs ! I have been watching the dangerous jobs on tv !
I usually get a small cheap frozen bag from the local co-op they always seem to be on offer. If they are copped (copped ?)

fine they are very soft and easy to swallow.Its funny how we always give our cats cooked food when in the wild they only eat everything raw !....

Mark · « **Reply #121 on:** May 31, 2007, 13:45:42 PM »

I will try them but he's not really a fish type cat - he has even stopped eating his daily coley.

I will have a look in Iceland next time I'm in Faversham as I think prawns & shrimps etc are cheap there - funny as I live 5 minutes walk from Whitstable harbour but they are really expensive

Nick (Peanut & Boo) · « **Reply #120 on:** May 31, 2007, 13:40:48 PM »

good for you . I'm sure he will be a lot happier at home with you and familiar smells and surroundings . Something I recently tried my two on for a change was prawns wow they don't last a second! I hardly have time to defrost them in a glass of warm water before they have scoffed them. Makes a nice change for them occasionaly but their food bill has gone through the roof especially when I give them king prawns lol

I do not spoil my cats... I do not spoil my cats.... I do no...............

Mark · « **Reply #119 on:** May 31, 2007, 13:33:14 PM »

After reading advice on here, I realised that because clapton was missing days here & there, his levels were rollercoasting. I have made sure he gets it every day and his appetite is much better. He has gone off fish & chicken which the vet advised so I am giving him senior food woith the odd tesco pouch which he likes. I also received a parcel of k/d chunks in gravy today so I am keeping my fingers crossed he takes to it. I have tried Applaws, Denes etc with no luck. He seems to like his Whiskas senior. He is a lot happier now which is the main thing. We have decided not to go for any treatment that will make him unhappy. The idea of leaving him in the vets for 24hrs with a needle in him is a no-no - so going for quality before quantity - Its hard but we are sticking to it.

Nick (Peanut & Boo) · « **Reply #118 on:** May 31, 2007, 12:30:49 PM »

sorry to hear that Clapton is still poorly . Long time since he had his teeth out poor mite.
I noticed some way back in this thread that when you stopped the fortekor? his appetite picked up dramatically The drug must be making him feel very unwell not to eat . I always wonder how unwell they feel when we give them all these pills and jabs etc . My inclination would be to get a second opinion perhaps from a nutritionist or just take him off the drug and monitor closely for a week or two. If his appetite picks up dramatically his health and well being is sure to do so also I should have thought. have you ever looked at giving him natural foods ? there is a specially prepared and fomulated soft minced food but I cannot remember the name. It is mail order but is only made from natural 100% foods meat fish etc .

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #117 on:** May 31, 2007, 10:17:50 AM »

they took Swamp away from me this am and banished me to the waiting room. The needle broke in his neck (he jerked his head so violently) so they had to stem the flow and try the other side and finally got some out of him. Vet thinks it's cos he's now deaf as Swampcat has had about 25 neck blood tests done in the last few years, none with any bother at all. He's fine now; came home and had a good nosh and his fortekor and destolit. Results tomorrow or Friday; I'm so hoping it's all ok as looks like future blood tests are going to be very tricky. The vet says he can't come and do them on a home visit either as needs a vet table, proper lights etc. The nice nurse he liked has left too which I'm sure doesn't help as he never minded when she held him tightly.
We did NOT do his bp......prob would have been about 400.

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #116 on:** May 30, 2007, 09:51:38 AM »

He has high bp but was unable to take Istin without his liver enzymes going right up again. The vet didn't take his bp yesterday, prob just as well as he was hyper agitated. I don't think Fortekor can raise bp - doesn't it normally lower it a tiny bit?
In an ideal world, if he just had kidney issues he'd be on Istin. Even 1/8th tablet though sent his ALT up 30 points in a week and he started vomiting. If his bp does go sky high, we'll have to give him a teeeeny dose. The vet looked in his eyes and said there's deterioration but not too bad at the moment.
We have to go again tomorrow to try to get blood and I'll hopefully ask him again. Vet was very busy and distracted yesterday. Hope the nurse Swamp knows is on duty as he may then be a bit calmer.
Otherwise can they take bloods at home as may have to pay for a home visit

Elaine · « **Reply #115 on:** May 30, 2007, 08:19:56 AM »

Quote from: swampmaxmum on May 29, 2007, 11:00:23 AM

Mark (or anyone else with a cat on Fortekor) - have you ever noticed any increased agitation? Max is as calm as ever but Swampy is really agitated. He's had loads of blood tests since september, but this morning the vet had to stop trying as he just wouldn't co-operate, either in his neck (usual place) or his leg. Growling, biting and constant jerking. We try again on thurs am as have got to get the latest readings on kidneys and liver.
He doesn't sleep as much or as restfully either.

Has your vet checked his blood pressure? Its not uncommon for CRF cats to develope high blood pressure which would make him quite restless due to headaches etc.

Mark · « **Reply #114 on:** May 29, 2007, 12:17:00 PM »

Thanks but Clapton only has about 2 teeth left so rejects dry food. I have heard of other cats with no teeth eating dry but he won't. He has always eaten wet so I think it would be hard to change him. Its a shame as the k/d dry works out so much cheaper. Also I hate everything about wet food. The Smell, Sticking like glue to bowls, flies in the summer etc

I have caught him eating some in the garden at times but he won't admit to eating it

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #113 on:** May 29, 2007, 11:32:04 AM »

the plot thickens then....maybe it's start up troubles or linked to his deafness?!

Does Clapton have to eat wet food? I only ask as the Royal Canin senior kidney and osteo for neutered cats over 10 yrs old (I'm not making this up!!) is a dry food that mine loved. They only stopped it when Swamp got his liver disease and vomited up any dry food. I can send you enough for a couple of meals if you like? It's what french vets use routinely for all older cats but here they have to look it up in their list and scratch their heads. Anyhow just let me know if you'd like some!
Otherwise good luck with the pouches. Mine don't care for those as they have bits in them which need chewing and their teeth aren't great.

Mark · « **Reply #112 on:** May 29, 2007, 11:17:27 AM »

I would say the oposite. Clapton sleeps a lot and is quite lethargic. As for vet trips, clapton doesn't struggle. He goes limp like a ragdoll - he has always done that.

I wish I could get him to eat the k/d but he's not interested.

I am going to order him some k/d pouches today from Nutrecare - special offer, £13.95 for 36 pouches. They also have i/d and c/d pouches on offer.

Edit - the c/d is £13.95 but the k/d is £16.50 - I ordered the wrong ones

- they were very helpful on the phone and sorted it

http://www.nutrecare.co.uk/prod5.asp?prod_id=1932&id=144&grpid=1932&msg=&offset=

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #111 on:** May 29, 2007, 11:00:23 AM »

Mark (or anyone else with a cat on Fortekor) - have you ever noticed any increased agitation? Max is as calm as ever but Swampy is really agitated. He's had loads of blood tests since september, but this morning the vet had to stop trying as he just wouldn't co-operate, either in his neck (usual place) or his leg. Growling, biting and constant jerking. We try again on thurs am as have got to get the latest readings on kidneys and liver.
He doesn't sleep as much or as restfully either.

Vet was hopeless on nutrition; said to go for the one with the lowest phosphorus and preferably consult a vet nutritionist - er, how do I do that?! I told him the k/d chicken is considered nice nosh but often makes him sick when he's snotty as has bits in it (l/d is stickier so comes up less; last night he had almost nothing by the blood test cut off time as vomited up his k/d). I feel the decision's bounced back at me.
Oh and for those on i/d cans, Hills latest batch of 85g cans are different - much drier, lighter, smell different - than the other tray I've just finished which has the same expiry date.

That's why I think I am going to stick to a l/d and k/d nosh mix as far as possible cos I KNOW they will change the k/d chicken at some point.....

k/d has 0.38 dry matter phosphorus and l/d has 0.6 phosphorus, but is lower in sodium (thinking high bp) and fat (a bit).

smudgepickles · « **Reply #110 on:** May 25, 2007, 10:57:31 AM »

oh pleased about that Mark at least he has a full tummy and is resting.... shall i fedex you some rather large matches for today though

xx

Mark · « **Reply #109 on:** May 25, 2007, 10:54:00 AM »

Well he decided to hop on the bed and snuggle up at 5am (I didn't get to sleep til 1am) so that was me awake for the day. He has already eaten as much today as he ate yesterday

. I can't smell anything on his breath. There is a chance that what I smelled was "Surf Tropical" as I washed the floor around the TV last night after Willows 3rd offence of the day! - he may have walked on it. Anyway, he has been playing in the garden and is curled up on a garden chair right now so all is well (at the moment) - I will keep a close eye on him.

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #108 on:** May 25, 2007, 10:31:27 AM »

yup, googling can be so helpful but can also be like having a headache and reading the medical symptoms encyclopaedia can't it! 1 1/2 pouches isn't too bad is it? My vet always says that if they can keep their weight stable that's a very good sign. Would he not be drinking tons if he had diabetes? And if his kidneys were struggling?
I asked my vet how much food was essential to get down every day and he said only a very small amount really.
Hope the cooler, rainier weather brings back an appetite.
My vet was quite keen that mine take Fortekor with breakfast btw. I'll ask him again on tuesday if he's up to concentrating (as I am going to ask about Swampa's eyes, ears and bp too!).

smudgepickles · « **Reply #107 on:** May 25, 2007, 08:34:39 AM »

How is he today Mark............hope he is a little better

xx

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #106 on:** May 25, 2007, 08:23:33 AM »

Fingers crossed it isn't Mark.

Mark · « **Reply #105 on:** May 24, 2007, 23:42:41 PM »

Quote from: Mark on May 24, 2007, 23:38:55 PM

He's eaten 1.5 pouches tonight and thats it. He doesn't seem to be drinking much either. Also, his breath smelled sweet which is really odd, a bit like pear drops.
Let see what tomorrow brings. I am thinking of registering him next door again and explaining to my other vet that the journey stresses him.

Edit - I made the mistake o googling breath pear drops and the top item was cat diabetes. I will not panic but monitor.......

Author Topic: Taking clapton off fortekor (Read 38480 times)