Topic: Closed Thread (Read 30060 times)

Angiew · « **Reply #101 on:** August 04, 2011, 21:02:12 PM »

Quote from: Ella & Archie on August 04, 2011, 20:42:55 PM

Quote from: Angie (covcats) on August 04, 2011, 10:51:32 AM
Just to say, I'm not ignoring this thread but felt a bit awkward commenting on it!

I'm trying to think if we'd back down if we refused a home to someone and they protested too much.

But would you say no for a box they ticked on a form, without inviting them in for a cat? Without meeting them face to face? Without vetting their home?Without meeting their other cats? If so then rescues are hoarders not rehomers and my whole slant on what I thought has been changed.

Protesting? I am challenging what I think is a fundamental flaw in their rehoming poilicy...?

Boxes ticked on forms - It depends on what the problem is.

Our big no-no are main roads, so someone phoning up on a main road is a big no, unless they start off by talking about wanting an indoor cat and are happy to tell us how they intend to make sure the cat won't get out or are cat proofing their garden.

A lot of rescues insist on cats having outside access so will not home cats to people who live in flats - we are happy to do so if any danger areas are seen to else its a no, however good the home may be.

If a rescue has catflaps as a requirement and that is stated on their homing page then thats it.
Afer all, it is their choice to set their own homing policies and I can see it as being valid if they are concerned that a cat will get stuck outside.

We do home to people with no flap, but I worry about cats being outside and having nowhere safe to run if a dog/person happens upon them - like that case in Coventry when the kitten was thrown to the dogs.

In fact I said after that we would no longer home to, for example. maisonettes where there was no safe garden to speak of, so nowhere safe for the cat to escape to.

Its a shame, because I know of a couple of people who live in places like that, and I suppose as I know them so well and what they do to help animal rescue I would probably bend the rules there. But thats the key, trusting people enough to bend the rules and for anyone who has been in rescue for some time, people have to EARN trust not expect to be trusted from the start.

Most rescues homing policies adjust to changing conditions.

I'm sorry, if we decide that we are not going to home our cats to people who wear green and orange stripes because experience has shown that the cats have no done so well, then we will make that policy and refuse to anyone sporting said items (and phone the fashion police to do a midnight raid).

Their cats, their rules, daft as they might seem to everyone else.

jezebel · « **Reply #100 on:** August 04, 2011, 20:21:19 PM »

Brilliant response Jiskefet!

Jiskefet · « **Reply #99 on:** August 04, 2011, 20:10:54 PM »

I emailed them:

Dear sirs,

for the past 2 days, I have been anxiously following the adoption process of Princess by Simon and Sean Stone.
I know Simon through a cat rescue forum, and I have a great regard for him, for his love of his cats, and for the sensible and consistent way in which he always lets the cats' interests prevail over what might be most convenient for him.

I think you couldn't find a better home for Princess, with better, more loving and caring owners, anywhere un the UK.
So, as a cat lover AND as a rescue worker, I can only say that if you let your guidelines get in the way of this adoption, there must be something fundamentally wrong with your guidelines.

I read your description of Princess (on your website). According to you, Princess has always been an indoor cat, and is very timid too, so you - quite rightly - state she should be introduced to the outdoors with great care. Your demand for a cat flap is in flagrant contradiction with this (your very OWN) demand for a gradual and careful introduction to the outdoors. A cat like Princess could get spooked by strange sounds and smells only too easily. She is not accustomed to a garden OR a cat flap, so she would probably bolt in the wrong direction and get herself killed.

The method suggested by the Stones, on the other hand, the method they also applied when introducing their king and queen Archie and Ella to the garden, seems to be tailor-made for a cat like Princess, and fits your description of the ideal approach to a T.

So what IS your problem????
The only reason I can imagine for this shambles is that someone in the rescue spoke way out of turn, and you are now protecting that person. For if this is truly your policy: no adoption of an INDOOR cat unless you have a catflap, and rather keeping the poor blighters cooped up in a pen with no outdoors at all, you make no sense at all, and are completely out of touch with reality.

What is your aim?
Rehoming cats to spacious homes with lovely gardens they can play in, and adoring people to cater to their every need, or hoarding them in little pens untill a prince on a white horse comes riding in to take them to his chrystal palace????

If so, you missed something, as Princess's prince came in last saturday and the saturday before, his name is Simon.

Be fair, admit you mistake, and allow Princess to be adopted into cat heaven, being the Stone family home!!!!!

Anja van Weeszenberg
cat owner and rescue volunteer
The Netherlands

Susanne (urbantigers) · « **Reply #98 on:** August 04, 2011, 20:00:34 PM »

Sorry to hear that, Simon.

They are the kind of people who give rescues a bad name. It's hard to criticise anyone for buying a cat from free ads etc. when there are rescues demonstrating such inflexibility. Guidelines are for guidance. Blanket rules are for people who aren't capable of making an informed decision. Whatever happened to common sense? I find it most bizarre, and actualy quite alarming, that they consider every cat should have 24/7 access to come and go as they please. Letting a cat like Princess, who has been an indoor cat up to now, have that sort of access right away would be totally irresponsible imo.

jezebel · « **Reply #97 on:** August 04, 2011, 19:59:17 PM »

I think this is a symptom of a wider issue with society at the moment - no commonsense!

We now live in a culture where there are rules and regulations for everything, so much so that most people are now unable to make a decision based on their own judgement.

Sad.

sheilarose · « **Reply #96 on:** August 04, 2011, 19:10:53 PM »

I hear the sound of heels being dug in....sorry, Simon.

Their policy is a strange one, so inflexible in these days of necessity, I hope it doesn't come back to bite them (and Princess

)

So, you've nothing to lose - go for it, let's have the explanations of this ridiculous policy, or the truth if they're hiding any genuine concerns behind rhetoric.

I do think they will want to review it after all this negative publicity, but the catalyst is seldom rewarded.

If it's any consolation, you've certainly made an impression here

...

Jiskefet · « **Reply #95 on:** August 04, 2011, 19:03:36 PM »

They must be out of their minds.....

ither that, or they are cat hoarders who cannot bear to part with their cats, even if they go to a much better place.
How can they go by guidelines that are NOT AT ALL beneficial to the cats?????
A cat flap is not a magic wand, it is an automatic doorman.
Why have an automatic doorman if you have a live one willing to do the job in a far safer and sensible way than a machine ever could?

Rosella moggy · « **Reply #94 on:** August 04, 2011, 15:48:22 PM »

Well that'll set the cat among the pigeons

Susanne (urbantigers) · « **Reply #93 on:** August 04, 2011, 13:30:18 PM »

Quote from: jezebel on August 04, 2011, 13:14:39 PM

You've made a very good case and I think you should now give them time to consider your arguments.

I agree. Give them time. Although I think it's unlikely they will change their mind, whilst there's any possibility at all of it happening you don't want to aggravate them. Given the fact that you've sent them a written letter as well as an email, you need to give them time to respond. A quick response will almost certainly be a no. You've stated your case (and a very good one it is too) now you need to give them time to consider the points you made. If they are going to do a u turn, they won't do it on a whim and they certainly won't do it in response to a facebook petition or if they feel they are being mithered. If their response is still a firm no, then a facebook petition asking them to reconsider blanket policies and to be a bit more flexible re individual cats is a great idea. But until then you need to try and stay in favour.

Leanne · « **Reply #92 on:** August 04, 2011, 13:29:49 PM »

I've been AWOL from Purrs for a while so am just catching up.

What an awful situation you are in. What I'd say is preserve with it but give them time to respond and take it as high as possible.

I've said this before on Purrs but when we first looked into getting a cat, we were turned down by our local CP because we wanted indoor cats, and we were prepared to wait for a suitable cat to come in. I was also asked where a cat flap would go, when I said we wouldn't need it for indoor cats they also said they'd rather we still had one. All nonsense to be honest. We did rehome 2 indoor boys from NAWT and in time we introduced them to the garden and now they go no further and only go out with supervised access.

jezebel · « **Reply #91 on:** August 04, 2011, 13:14:39 PM »

You've made a very good case and I think you should now give them time to consider your arguments.

I doubt their decision is something they could change their minds about (or be seen to change their minds about!) in a heartbeat. If it were me, I'd give them 48 hours and then follow up the email with a polite phone call.

Rosella moggy · « **Reply #90 on:** August 04, 2011, 11:17:19 AM »

I think your letter was very appropriate Simon and have everything crossed that it achieves results.

The FB campaign though............. really not at all sure that is going to be helpful.......

Listen to me eh?

When rehoming Fred from RSPCA back in 2006, I gave them an awful time over having to wait for a home check whilst poor Fred remained in a pen. I've just re read the two page letter I sent at the time and it was a corker

I ended up speaking to the new manager of the branch for about 40 mins after she received my letter. Obviously she was pointing out their need for more homecheckers

I think it is far better to be home checked before looking wherever possible. When you have effectively chosen your new furrie, it is deeply upsetting thinking of them remaining in a pen instead of being with you

Dawn F · « **Reply #89 on:** August 04, 2011, 10:53:25 AM »

I thought the same Angie, I think the rescue I go to would probably dig their heels in further - although for the record I think Simon would be a great owner and the whole cat flap thing is too sweeping

Angiew · « **Reply #88 on:** August 04, 2011, 10:51:32 AM »

Just to say, I'm not ignoring this thread but felt a bit awkward commenting on it!

I'm trying to think if we'd back down if we refused a home to someone and they protested too much.

Dawnin8r · « **Reply #87 on:** August 04, 2011, 10:29:48 AM »

I know of the rescue you're referring to, and I do think they are shooting themselves in the foot by adhering so stringently to some arbitrary policy, but there you go. I wish you the best of luck in your appeal.

I volunteer for a rescue in Bedfordshire and I think you sound like you can offer a fantastic home. In fact, if you ever wanted to adopt from us I'd be happy to personally homecheck you myself.

JenGeorgieBob · « **Reply #86 on:** August 04, 2011, 10:15:10 AM »

have joined and posted on the wall, I can not believe they are doing this and do not even seem to be considering changing their minds! It has made me angry and I have not even met Princess, so I can not imagine what you must be feeling!

Jiskefet · « **Reply #85 on:** August 04, 2011, 08:53:55 AM »

37 members overnight, it should make them think again......

And, Simon, DO cause trouble!!!
It is downright criminal to keep these poor cats locked up in small cages while they could have good, loving homes.
Kick up a huge stir, for the sake of Princess and ALL these other poor cats being denied a home!!!!!

Susanne (urbantigers) · « **Reply #84 on:** August 04, 2011, 08:46:52 AM »

I would hold off sending them the fb link, at least until you've heard from them again in response to your letter. It's just possible that there might be someone higher up who will realise that they are being too rigid, esp in relation to a cat who was formerly kept indoors all the time. You could jeopardise that if they feel they are under attack via fb campaign.

Also, I assume you emailed the letter? It might be worth actually printing it and sending it to them. It might reach a different person and it's harder to ignore a letter than an email. It's easy to just click on reply and send a curt email in response but a written letter requires a written reply and that is likely to come from someone more senior and to contain a more considered response.

Kirst · « **Reply #83 on:** August 04, 2011, 08:30:46 AM »

Signed up to join the group. xx

Susanne (urbantigers) · « **Reply #82 on:** August 04, 2011, 07:28:17 AM »

Quote from: Ella & Archie on August 03, 2011, 18:12:13 PM

I don't think I will win this as when I was explaining myself and I said that I would lock a cat flap at dark anyway as I wouldn't let my cats out anyway the woman was like "oh so you would shut them in anyway" in a disapproving voice.

I find that astonishing. Don't most large cat organisations such as FAB, CP etc. recommend that cats are kept in at night due to the increased likelihood of RTAs occurring at night? I find it alarming that this rescue thinks cats should be allowed out at night and would actually turn someone down because they plan to keep a cat in at night. Although I feel terribly sorry for Princess, and other cats like her, who are being denied the chance of a loving home due to rigid and nonsensical rules, and also for you as you are missing out on a cat you have set your heart on, but there will be another cat out there who you will fall in love with. And another rescue that will not put the rulebook ahead of doing what's right for their cats.

Cooper & Peanut · « **Reply #81 on:** August 04, 2011, 07:25:21 AM »

Wow!

Just caught up with everything. Wow! Can't believe how incredibly obtuse this rescue is being!!! When we got Cooper & Peanut, they were harping on about having access to a catflap, even though C&P were both indoor cats before going into rescue. Cooper wouldn't even entertain the idea of going outside, he couldnt even understand how to go through the bloomin thing!!

Who's to say Princess would want to go out anyway?? She might be perfectly happy staying inside where all the cuddles are!!

I feel sad for both you Simon and Princess. That email to them was spot on and I will be keeping all fingers, toes and paws crossed for you

Ambi · « **Reply #80 on:** August 04, 2011, 02:18:27 AM »

I'm amazed at this. On e things for sure they definitely wouldnt let us have a cat

We have two cat flaps. That probably would please them. However the one at the end of the cooker room (like a tiny pantry area) leads out into a custom made cat run. They wouldn't approve of that!

When we go out, the cats are in & flap to run closed. At night same thing.

The other flap is in the door between the cooker room & living room. Our back is a bit strange. Leading off the cooker room to the right is a large utility room & the back stairs. Upstairs there is the sun room & the cat room where they have toys & tunnels etc. Used to be a houseplant room pre cats

so our cats have those rooms plus their run so we dont feel they are deprieved in any way although we have had comments passed about it being cruel not letting them out to roam. I guess you can never win. I do hope this rescue reconsider, you speak with such passion & strength. Im sure they must be able to bend the rules this oncel

Ann Clarke (Tabby cat) · « **Reply #79 on:** August 04, 2011, 00:08:38 AM »

Si I've been reading your thread in general cat chat and I'm so sorry you have been turned down. For our part we don't have a blanket policy on any aspects of rehoming and neither does CP in general as far as I'm aware and I've been doing this for few years now. We concentrate very much on each cat's individual needs and personality and rehome to indoor, outdoor, with and without cat flaps and all sorts of variations in-between! We do recommend that people keep their cats in at night and even where cats are outdoor types we ask that people provide a litter tray indoors for when they are in the house and make sure there is some form of shelter for them if they are outside when someone is out and the person doesn't have a cat flap for them to get back inside. I feel it's wrong to assume that because a cat is young they need to a. Go outside as a matter of course and b. That any outdoor access must be fully free and unfettered. My two are both indoor cats because I live right next to a busy bypass and while Luna would probably be ok outdoors Hobbes has a severe panic attack going out in his carrier to the vet so even if I had a cat flap he wouldn't use it. If I ever manage to move to a safer area I would be taking the same stance as you and they would only be out while I'm around. This seems a very short sighted way of rehoming given the problems so many of us are having finding good homes. You can't have a one size fits all policy which only serves to leave cats in care for many months when good homes come up that don't fit some arbitrary criteria. I agree with others that you need to be sure Princess is the right cat for you and your cats but if you are sure, and I know you will have considered things very carefully, then I say go for it and try all avenues possible. We would have no hesitation in homing to you. Sorry for the long post, got carried away!

ChrisB · « **Reply #78 on:** August 03, 2011, 23:08:21 PM »

Simon, this is so unfair. Even though we have a catflap our five only go out when we are home and they are quite happy with that. Surely the rescue aren't suggesting they prefer cats to be out at night ? Anyway, sorry am not on Facebook but wishing you all the best - Princess is a gorgeous girl. Have you contacted your local paper as I am sure you would get support from fellow cat lovers and I can't think the rescue are in a position to want bad publicity.

Liz · « **Reply #77 on:** August 03, 2011, 23:04:27 PM »

Si have asked to join the group on Fb and will give them something to think about our lot must think I am a terrible mother I control the in and out timings and my inside lot know where they should be

Jiskefet · « **Reply #76 on:** August 03, 2011, 22:52:27 PM »

You could not have a cat flap on either side of the conservatory, into the garden and into the house?
If you put the innermost flap in backwards, you could even create a kind of lock, controlled entry on one end, controlled exit on the other end

JackSpratt · « **Reply #75 on:** August 03, 2011, 21:57:10 PM »

I'd definitely ask why they feel Princess isn't suited to a home without a cat flap. And if that is just a get out, what the actual reason is. Politely, obviously.

But the way you write about your cats indicates a caring home and if the rescue has more information making it clear that you adore your cats I think maybe they'd want to reconsider. Good homes are hard to come by at the moment.

Rosella moggy · « **Reply #74 on:** August 03, 2011, 21:52:57 PM »

Sorry to interrupt but.......

Quote from: sheilarose on August 03, 2011, 21:49:48 PM

I just checked the website for your rescue......... and they state that they only rehome cats to homes without catflaps "occasionally". Can you determine from them what those circumstances are?

Now we're cooking

sheilarose · « **Reply #73 on:** August 03, 2011, 21:49:48 PM »

I just checked the website for your rescue (found it from Princess's description) and they state that they only rehome cats to homes without catflaps "occasionally".

Can you determine from them what those circumstances are?

Liz · « **Reply #72 on:** August 03, 2011, 21:39:17 PM »

Si just a thought as she was a housecat in her previous home why would she now suddenly need a cat flap

have they done your homecheck yet sorry if I missed this bit

I would home one of mine to you Si if that helps and I have left very expensive homes who talk the the talk but not have a caring bone before left one lady at a 2.5 million pound house at Gleneagles when she said they won't have litter trays and can't they hold on like the dog does - no I replies and added no cats from me either!!!!

sheilarose · « **Reply #71 on:** August 03, 2011, 21:26:50 PM »

Leave your name with them and step back, but call every day to check if Princess is OK.

They will soon get the idea you are very serious, whatever (Whatever?) their misgivings about your catflap status.

I can see what Streetz is getting at, but I do feel you need another chance with Princess - can you ask for feedback from your home visit as to WHY your application was rejected? Just stating "no cat flap", when they themselves stated she needed careful introduction to the outdoors, is inadequate.

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #70 on:** August 03, 2011, 21:19:59 PM »

Quote from: StreetKatzRescue on August 03, 2011, 21:05:36 PM

It may be just a gut feeling on the part of the rescue that your excellent setup is just not quite right for Princess.

Then surely they should say that? at least then Si would know exactly where he stands.

StreetKatzRescue · « **Reply #69 on:** August 03, 2011, 21:05:36 PM »

You sound just the purrfect home for Princess but thought I would just add what we do, as a rescue, at homecheck time. Firstly, if there is no cat flap we do ask if willing to put one in or not. If not - and there are many reasons why not including expense in installing one in double glazed upvc doors - we ask what will happen if you go out for the day, either to work or just for a day out - ie if kept in with litter tray until you come back (ticked box) or if not willing to have litter tray, what will happen (no ticked box). We do stress that the Animal Welfare Act 2006 requires appropriate shelter and we always suggest if prospective owner not willing to have cat flap or litter tray indoors, then they must have cat flap in garden shed or other outbuilding so cat has shelter from weather and food and water at all times.

I always stress that cats left locked outside with no shelter will wander in bad weather. Usually someone will notice this and take them in, dry them off and feed them and then you have lost your cat as it will perpetually wander between 2 houses and will probably take up residence in the one that looks after them better ( I may put it more tactfully LOL!).

Anyway, if you came to us, we would not turn you down on lack of cat flap as the overall care seems fab and you sound so caring and I am sure many other rescues would take the same line. However, the dynamics of Princess with other cats is another issue and this has to be down to the rescue concerned. We have had some lovely people look at some of our cats and you just know what is going to work and what is not. It may be just a gut feeling on the part of the rescue that your excellent setup is just not quite right for Princess. This is no reflection on you on you or your partner personally or the love and care you give your lovely duo.

I have looked at a few of your threads and, although there may be a connection between you and her, I just wonder if perhaps the best thing would be to let your 2 lovely babes, Ellie & Archie, settle for a while longer on their own and then look at adding at a later date when the dynamics of the existing two may have settled down after their loss and yours too.

Many good wishes for whatever route you decide to take.

Tagalong · « **Reply #68 on:** August 03, 2011, 20:32:41 PM »

for my two penneth -they clearly state she needs gradual introduction to the outside world -you could argue that is not a cat flap situation !
I don't have outdoor cats and never will -there are enough needing indoor homes to keep me busy

but surely at this time when everywhere is crying out for good homes then to refuse on this is just nitpicking

Teresa Pawcats · « **Reply #67 on:** August 03, 2011, 20:16:43 PM »

Hi Si

"Princess lived with a dog in her previous home which she got on well with, it is not known how she behaves with other cats."
Obviously the rescue cant even be bothered with proper assessment.

Si if you think she will fit in with your purrfect family then fight tooth and nail, take it to the press if need be.
Sorry I cant offer support as I dont do Facebook, but Good Luck with her, I cant think of anyone more deserving

Zenith (Liz) · « **Reply #66 on:** August 03, 2011, 19:12:56 PM »

How awful

Mine only have outdoor access when i'm home and can supervise them, they certainly aren't unhappy or deprived cats!

Hope the appeal letter works

Teresa Pawcats · « **Reply #65 on:** August 03, 2011, 19:04:16 PM »

Si there are a couple of things bothering me
1- Sure you said that the first offer of a home fell through after a couple of weeks ? Did she actually go to the home and come back?
2- Did you say she has been in rescue for a few months ? If this is the case WHY cant the rescue tell you how she behaves with other cats ?

Cat Flaps not important but making sure that the cat is right for the home is, I know you have a wonderful home to offer

and I know you would love her

BUT little things are niggling me and I dont want to spoil things for you but I think Princess may not be what Ella and Archie want. Really hope I am wrong

As for this other rescue, they should take a good look at the harm they are doing.

snarf · « **Reply #64 on:** August 03, 2011, 18:58:02 PM »

my personal opinion is also anti catflap. after reading the vicky halls books i can see that they are a week point in a cats defense of its safe den. i also know that my cats rarely leave the door unguarded when its left open so i cannot see how they would be comfortable with a cat flap. i have had numerous cat-loving friends tell me that this is cruel and controlling and it stems from a lack of understanding of how cats think. some have listened to the counter arguments and read up and changed their minds.
As a rescue we dont turn potential adopters away because of a cat flap (presence or absence) but it may be taken into account for some cats.

lau200 · « **Reply #63 on:** August 03, 2011, 18:27:01 PM »

how terrible for you to be declined over a cat flap. i don't have a cat flap but my cats are happy and they do have a routine where they go out when we are in and then come in just as it is getting dark. i'm sure my cats are more than happy with our situation.

And they wonder why they are struggling to find new homes when they base their criteria for new homes on such trivial things. just because someone has a cat flap does not mean they are going to be a good home. i remember a family being turned down a pet rabbit from a rescue that i volunteered for. the family had done the research, had a letter from their vets and had even built a bunny mansion but the hutch was a few centimetres short of the rescue's criteria and dispite the family buliding it themselves and making it 2 floors, they were rejected. the family ended up buying a rabbit from the pet shop and the rabbit they wanted? well 3 years later it was still in the same pen and then i left the rescue so i don't know any further info. surely that rabbit would have been better off with a family who had shown so much willing and potential than sitting in a pen for so long?

nowadays i point family and friends in the direction of smaller rescues whom i believe to have different ideas than those of the larger countrywide rescues.

if this does not end up with you having princess as your own, i'm sure you will find one just as needy. *hugs*

madamcat (Edd) · « **Reply #62 on:** August 03, 2011, 18:10:36 PM »

Hope the peeps at this rescue come to their senses.

So sad that a wonderful home is being offered where it is so clear that the cats are loved and adored and cared for and they cannot see beyond their "rules".

Don't let this get you down - the right cat is out there waiting for you - I hope it is Princess

Author Topic: Closed Thread (Read 30060 times)