Foods for CRF

[paddypaws101]

That is good news, have you asked the vet to test for pancreatitis? There is a new test available now that is easier to do than the old one. Drips can halve kidney values though, so it would be interesting to repeat them in a month or so, just in case it is the start of kidney issues and the drip has just cleared them temporarily.

Thanks Delsey....I do know about the Idexx spec fPL1 for pancreatitis....but having already spent £550 at the vet in the last month I am not rushing to get it done just yet....also, as Paddy is already diabetic I can pretty much guarantee there ARE pancreatic issues and am supplementing on that basis ( taurine, L-carnitine, Milk thistle, probiotics and (separately ) slippery elm ) I am also keeping him on Fortekor for now.
I will be re-testing in a month to check on values....this kidney issue has not gone away, I know that...but at least it is not quite as severe as feared...insufficiency rather than failure. What a difference a word makes!
I will be concentrating efforts on providing a lower phosphorous diet over this time also...and have ordered an interesting product called Astros Oil to give that a go. For now, I need to feed him up  :evillaugh:as he has lost a lot of weight over the last few weeks.

[Desley (booktigger)]

That is good news, have you asked the vet to test for pancreatitis? There is a new test available now that is easier to do than the old one. Drips can halve kidney values though, so it would be interesting to repeat them in a month or so, just in case it is the start of kidney issues and the drip has just cleared them temporarily.

[Fire Fox]

   

[paddypaws101]

Thanks gain FF.
Now for the update.
Paddy spent 24 hours on a drip at the vet office, and last night I got a call to come and pick him up as his blood tests were all normal! Creatinine and BUN both back within normal range, when only 2 weeks previously they were well OUT if range. To say the vet was surprised is an understatement.
So....maybe an acute episode on the back of a slight insufficiency? Personally I think he is suffering from pancreatitis...although he is better than he was, he is still not back to his greedy chatty self.
Aren't cats amazing?

[Fire Fox]

Firefox..I had you in mind when I posted as I know that you are trained in nutrition. Is yoghurt 'de-natured', I always thought that referred to cooking and the destruction of enzymes and bacteria. ? I can understand that maybe the fermentation has some kind of natural binding on the phos though.
His diabetes means that I am against introducing carbs into the diet unless I am really convinced otherwise. His BG is perfectly controlled with Tight Regulation, but then again I guess it has to take a back seat to the kidney issues.
Well he is having a second set of blood tests today after the kidneys have been flushed over night so I suppose I will have more information later.

Mark knows better than I - both from personal experience and as he is studying an animal discipline - my bent is human healthcare. 

Denaturing refers to a permanent change in structure of any protein: enzymes ARE proteins, the change in structure destroys their functional capacity. Heating is the way we are all most familiar with - cooking an egg or meat - however a change in pH has the same effect. In milk the bacteria produce lactic acid which makes the yoghurt 'set', you can mimic this by drinking milk when hungover.    Chemistry lesson over! My comment about the natural binding was a guess, hence the question mark, so please research this yourself.

It's down to you and your vet to agree whether the diabetes or CRF takes precedence. In humans diet/ lifestyle is far more important than medication to type 2 diabetics for reducing the risk of complications, and for stopping insulin resistance becoming more pronounced. If diet is poor but medication compliance is good the blood sugar will still peak and trough throughout the day; this may well not be apparent outwardly. Bear in mind kidney damage is a common complication of diabetes. I am confident you will do all you can to find a food and/ or binder that is palatable as well as the best compromise health-wise. 

[paddypaws101]

Mark, thanks for that info. As I say...I am suspicious of most super market foods as they contain WAY too high a carb content for a diabetic, and that also rules out dry food of any sort.

[paddypaws101]

Ellen....good news about your cat. Paddy's phos levels are actually within normal range so far, but I know that phos is damaging to the kidneys so should still be limited in the diet. I am a little confused that your vet advised white fish does that contain less phos than oily fish etc? Also, does red meat really contain more phos than chicken?
Sorry, I am just thinking out loud with these questions.
Firefox..I had you in mind when I posted as I know that you are trained in nutrition. Is yoghurt 'de-natured', I always thought that referred to cooking and the destruction of enzymes and bacteria. ? I can understand that maybe the fermentation has some kind of natural binding on the phos though.
His diabetes means that I am against introducing carbs into the diet unless I am really convinced otherwise. His BG is perfectly controlled with Tight Regulation, but then again I guess it has to take a back seat to the kidney issues.
Well he is having a second set of blood tests today after the kidneys have been flushed over night so I suppose I will have more information later.

[Mark]

With meat isn't more of the phosphorous in the bonemeal?

It's the opposite - the phosphorus is in the muscle meat. It is the calcium in the bonemeal that binds some of the phosphorus.

I really don't accept that certain flavours of commercial cat food are better than others ie chicken, given that they only contain a min 4% of named flavour. Things to avoid are offal as they are really high in phosphorus.


From experience, most cats hate renal food. Tanya's CRF site has a list of foods and their phosphorus content - senior food (at least Felix) is a good compromise - the phos content is about 30% less than adult food although nowhere near as low as in renal food. I found ipakitine binders were accepted a lot easier than renalzin. My 2 CRF cats would never touch food with renalzin in.

It's really frustrating but the higher the meat content, the higher the phosphorus content. Hi-life wet seems to have the highest amount. Applaws/Encore dry is really high.


It is a balancing act trying to feed what is best for them and getting them to eat.

One of the dry foods I had the most success with was Happy Cat (from zooplus) the renal is around 0.3% and the senior around 0.6%

The wet food I had the most success with was Felix senior. They sell 2 different boxes of pouches, so 8 flavours (they used to have a senior foil tray selection but stopped making it)
Whiskas senior is probably lower phosphorus but I haven't seen anything to confirm it.

[Ellen2010]

Hi the advice from my vet was basically to give good protein flavours such as Chicken, Turkey, Cod or Whitefish but under no circumstances give red meat or fish to a cat with CRF.

Just so you know my cat was diagnosed with CRF and is on Whiskas Supermeat Chicken with Renalzin added which is a phosphate inhibitor as that was what was high in her kidney functions.  Within 3 months of the vets putting her on Renalzin all her kidney functions have been within range with no fluctuation above normal range in all that time.  A bit of advice with the phospate inhibitor mix it well in to the food.

[Fire Fox]

  I can't spout my usual gubbins as CRF is simply not my area - hopefully Mark will swing by this thread as he researched the phosphate contents of many commercial cat foods, and will be able to advise whether some binders are better accepted than others.

Cottage cheese will mainly contain casein but not whey protein these two proteins are different in composition so it would be interesting to look at the phosphorus content of each. Having said that they may only be 'complete' in terms of amino acids together as they are in milk. Secondly the proteins in yoghurt are different structurally (denatured) to milk proteins, perhaps there is a sort of natural binding effect on phosphorous?

With meat isn't more of the phosphorous in the bonemeal? Is there an issue with eggs and phosphorous? As you know I am biased against carbohydrates, but I can't really see how reintroducing them is going to be beneficial in the long term: this will make the blood sugar less stable which means greater likelihood of complications.  At the very least you'd want low Glycaemic Index carbs which will limit your options in commercial foods still further, not great if you have a cat with a discerning palate. 

[paddypaws101]

Hi, looking for some advice from the wise bunch of posters on here. My 16 year old cat is recently diagnosed with CRF, he is also HT and Diabetic! Because of the diabetes I feed him low carb wet food and home made raw. Now of course the vet wants me to feed low protein, but I am not convinced that is the way to go. He has shown little interest in Hills wet Renal, or regular food with a phos binder added.
Can anyone give info about suitable low phos meat foods? I have seen cottage cheese and full fat yoghurt recommended....but also found this
' Beef and chicken contain about 8 mg phosphorus per gram of protein, whereas low-fat milk has 28 mg phosphorus per gram of protein.' so am confused.
I have of course scoured Tanya's CRF site.
I have to add that Paddy does not LOOK like a 'kidney cat', weighing in at around 14lb and up till the last week seeming to be in great health despite all his medical conditions. Personally I think he may have some pancreatitis or infection going on and he is spending tonight at the Cat Hilton getting  IV fluids.