Am I doing it right? (Changing to dry food)

[Fire Fox]

Ok lemme straighten this part out, She gets two wet meals a day, but there is kitten kibble down all day for her, so she isnt starved for the rest of the day there is food there, and when I feed her wet, i mix it into the kibble.

As for brands, Does it really matter which brand it is as far as her actually starting to eat dry food, its the concept of crunchies that she needs to grasp, not how to get fussy on this flavour or that.

Ive now got her bowl right next to my desk so i can have it down all day even if she doesnt eat the wet right away, it means I can chase buddy off it.

As for the cats "Telling me that they want wet food" Thats like putting Brussel Sprouts and a Chocolate bar infront of a child and asking which one it wants. I know the pros and cons of both, And have chosen dry.

As for Tish's progress, she has been nibbling on the kibble more especially at night. Ive been softening it just a little with warm water.

Oh and Vet wise, Both have been recently, and both are in great shape according to my vet, except for buddy having a little tartar. Any tips on cleaning cat teeth?

It matters very much which brand it is if you intend to feed only kibble - the meat content varies between 4% (many of the major brands) and 85%. Cats are obligate carnivores, they have zero requirement for carbohydrates in their diet. I work in healthcare, I give nutritional advice to humans, I am qualified to degree level and I know exactly how damaging the wrong diet can be. All that is trumped by the wealth of feline experience on Purrs. 

It is nothing like giving a child the choice between a chocolate bar and a brussel sprout since neither purport to be a complete diet (tho arguably chocolate is closer  )! A child will make the choice using prior experience of eating chocolate and green vegetables, in any case studies have shown babies are 'programmed' to prefer sweet foods and to spit out bitter flavours so they don't poison themselves. Your kitten is using instinct; my Noah is one of the greediest cats alive, but he will only eat something containing meat, fish, dairy products or eggs.

Many vets recommend raw meaty bones to clean cats teeth - chicken wings and frozen chicken portions are cheaper per kilo than most branded kibble.

[Rosella moggy]

Hi again MK

You and your young uns have been on my mind  .  I may be way off beam but remember being a bit put out in the first year of me coming onto CatChat then Purrs.  I've lived with cats all my life and felt very uncomfortable with any remote hint that I may not have cared for them in the best possible way 100% of the time.  I have however learnt alot about cats as a result of being on this site altho I admit I have a lot more to learn.  From looking at the pics of your cats, they look to be in very good health and are certainly very beautiful 

Perhaps if you put yourself in my shoes for a moment.  I am asked how to encourage another person's young kitten to change to a dry food diet but I don't think a wholly dry food diet is healthy for such a young cat.  Do I say so or do I say nothing?  I'm sorry if you think I made the wrong choice.  It is nice to hear that Tish is eating 2 wet meals a day but kittens of that age have very small tummies so cannot eat in large quantities, hence the need for more frequent meals if it can be arranged. 

I currently have a demon monster kitten a little older than Tish; about 14 weeks.  He will not eat wet kitten food but loves adult wet food.  I therefore sprinkle Royal Canin dry kitten food on top of the adult wet food so that he gets the nutrition he needs.  I have a total of 7 cats now and they all go crazy for RC kitten dry food (I sometimes refer to it as Kitty crack  ) so I would be surprised if Tish didn't like it but I would again caution about feeding a wholly dry diet.  I so hope you are not offended coz we are all here coz we love our cats.

[Mark]

I was curious to see where I read it.

It says here that RC own Techni-cal. One thing I wasn't aware of is that Mars own RC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Canin

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I kniow yoiu ssaid that before Mark but dont think its right...avout canada,,,,,they are not same company.

Thanks for links my garden centre doesnt sell it, never seen it in a shop.....sigh

[Mark]

Pet supermarket also sell it http://www.pet-supermarket.co.uk/productlist.asp?a=resetsearch

I read somewhere that techni-cal is just the name for RC in Canada 

I wouldn't buy it now. Until Canada start behaving more like a Western country, and less like China where animals are concerned 

[Daisymac]

I have always used TechniCal but it was getting harder ansd harder to get .........where do you get it DM pls?

Currently using Purina One fish but moving to Purina xxx, cant remember name but from PAH . also fish cos birmans prefer fish biscuits. Also have some Hills kd biscuits down but they arent eaten very much and suspect not at all by birmans who they were bought for cos Franta only has one kidney.

All 4 of mine now tell me they hate Felix LOL and all are having gourmet food........sigh......well at least dont throw most of it away, just the chunks from Frantas chicken in white sauce unless Misa eats some!

Local garden centre is normally where I get it Gill,  or Petfood Warehouse is quite cheap
http://petfoodwarehouse.co.uk/browse_1047

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Mine wont toucdh the chicken lol.....not one of them! But was having probs this time last year getting the fish one and nowhere in Wales was selling it.....now its back in Tescoes.........sigh

I spoke to Purina about it and they were useless and not interested and told me that Purina One is only sold in supermarkets! The other Purina whicj is more expensive and apparently better, supposed toi have something that helps kidneys in it, I get from PAH but its easy to get online.

Think it may be called Pro Plan but the bags upstairs in bedroom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

Gill mine love Purina One but only the Chicken !
The one from PAH is Pro- Plan or something isn't it ? (made by the same people as purina one)
Most of them then also have wet food....the only one who doesn't is Lilly and she won't eat anything wet, not eaten tuna or ham ! (strange cat lol)

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I have always used TechniCal but it was getting harder ansd harder to get .........where do you get it DM pls?

Currently using Purina One fish but moving to Purina xxx, cant remember name but from PAH . also fish cos birmans prefer fish biscuits. Also have some Hills kd biscuits down but they arent eaten very much and suspect not at all by birmans who they were bought for cos Franta only has one kidney.

All 4 of mine now tell me they hate Felix LOL and all are having gourmet food........sigh......well at least dont throw most of it away, just the chunks from Frantas chicken in white sauce unless Misa eats some!

[Daisymac]

Evo is an American food and there are no places in the UK that stock or import it. Evo manufacturers have no plans to bring the food here 

That would make sense as it was my friend in Bermuda who told me about it

[Den]

Evo is an American food and there are no places in the UK that stock or import it. Evo manufacturers have no plans to bring the food here 

[Daisymac]

I struggle to find dry food that all of mine will eat,  we have ended up with TechniCal chicken and everyone seems to like that,  wet food I am afraid to say my lot are big Felix fans 

Someone did tell me about a food called Evo 95% but I have never found it (wet food)

[BazandGem]

BazandGem: you need to be looking at the meat content not the protein content. Protein from plant sources is less bio-available (less well absorbed) than that from animal sources. Many dry foods will have a high protein content but a meat content as low as 4% which is not great for an obligate carnivore.

It's RC Neutered Young Male and the first ingredient listed is dehydrated poultry meat - but it doesn't say what that is as a percentage. I have wondered if there might be a cheaper alternative that's just as good/better, if such a thing exists, but he enjoys it so don't see any reason to rock the boat at the moment. I was a little concerned he might be getting fat but the vet weighed him yesterday and he was just over 4kg, so probably just filling out a bit as he grows into an adult :-)

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

Both my bosses are vets and my female boss swears the Co-Cat rots cats teeth !

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I am disturbed by a comment you made about the brand of the dry food and it not being important MK.

It is very important if you are only feeding dry, or are wanting to.

As everyone has kept stressing the quality of the food is important and in certain cheaper makes of dry food that have been advertized very recently as being good, we know not to be the case and are likely to give health problems....................I know most everyone on Purrs knows which food I am referring to and the tv advert I found amusing cos it was saying that it used less cardboard 

It was referring to the packaging not the food but guess many here would laugh and say true, the food has the nutritional value of cardboard.

The other little horror story is that a number of vets recommend dry food wrongly in many cases and vets seem to know far less  about this subject than many on Purrs,  who have made great studies of the subject due to eating or health problems with their cats.

My 4 cats are fussy eaters and to get them to eat I have to pander to their ways and my old late cat went against all the rules, ie cats will not starve themselves,  well she would if she didnt like the food!

I was hoping for a dustbin or two amongst my 4 but only Misa likes to have a taste at every bowl but none of them will eat treats or human food and I know that Misa and Sasa eat far too many biscuits and seems their weight has now levelled out now at around 6.5 kgs..........sigh, Misa is a giant cat and Sasa only slightly smaller. They have wet food to and food stays out all the time.

I hope you accept that peeps here are just trying to help you with all their vast knowledge, nobody is trying to put you down and I have seen no posts slating you at all.

[Mark]

I think cats have a very low thirst mechanism and dry food is the cause of a lot of health issues - renal failure and UTIs for starters. I think a good quality dry food as part of a balanced diet is a great idea - especially as most decent foods have quality ingredients (excepting rubbish like go-cat, Whiskas dry, supermarket own brand dry etc) but wet food should always be offered - in fact I know I am not the only one who adds a splash of extra water with wet food for cats that don't drink a lot.

[Daisymac]

8 Weeks is too young for a dry only diet,   I have Kenny who is 15 weeks old and he is still having 4 wet feeds a day and has dry food down all day that he can pick on,  I will be getting him down to 3 wet feeds a day over the next month or so,  but he will never be on a dry only diet.

[Feline Costumier]

The point most people are trying to make is that cats are obligate carnivores. Carnivore, as in meat, preferably raw. We as humans have developed this very peculiar obsession with dry diets for our cats that actually is so far removed from what they are naturally built to eat and leaves many many cats with long term health problems that are preventable through diet.

The advice you are being given is with the cats' best interests at heart, not what you find is more convenient. I don't think anyone particularly likes the smell of cat food and for those of us with feline dustbins we enjoy watching what they eat at every meal even less enjoyable! But we do it because having a pet is a responsibility and as such we should give them the very best we can afford, no matter how much of a headache we may find it.

I managed to wean my newcomer onto a partially dry diet but she is much older and didn't object, it only took me a couple of weeks. My reasoning for this is that I can't afford to feed an exclusively wet diet so I compromise by giving them one small meal of good quality dry food per day each and then good quality wet for their other meal. I make sacrifices so I can afford to feed them well, my circumstances are not their fault and they should be the last ones to suffer.

I totally disagree with a cat being forced onto an exclusively dry diet and even for those that are dry food addicts, they should be offered wet food as well. We should strive to feed our pets as natural and balanced a diet as possible to keep it close to what they would eat if they were wild.

One day I hope to go down the raw food route because that is what would ensure optimum health for my cats and their welfare and health is my number one priority.

This is all just my opinion though, as everyone else has offered. We don't always like the advice we are given but if we explicitly ask for it then you can't be particularly upset if people disagree.

[Kay and Penny]

to redress the balance a little, I bought some grain free premium dry food recently called A Taste of the Wild, in the hopes my Russian Blue Trigger, who has always been a picky eater, might eat some of it

he is 9 now, and all his life has eaten just sufficient wet and dry food to keep body and soul together - he has always turned his nose up at 80% of the wet food on the market, and wouldn't even taste different raw foods - wasted a lot of money there - so I have needed him to eat some dry just to keep his calorie intake up

but he really likes this A Taste of the Wild, and his overall intake has not  only increased, but has shifted from 80% wet 20% dry to around 50/50

so I would suggest buying several different varieties of the quality dry foods in the smallest sizes available - you might find some of the firms offer sample packs free if you try their websites - if you find one she really takes to, you can move to a combination of wet and dry

[clarenmax]

Hi Momma Kat

I'm sorry you feel people are 'having a go at you'.  Having read this impartially I don't see that at all, merely lots of people giving you their thoughts and advice, which is what you came on here to ask for.   With any forum there will always be differences of opinion.

I know many will not recommend a completely dry diet as it can lead to weight and urinary issues (the latter in males particularly), but if you have made an informed decision, then that's fine.  Further down the line I would certainly recommend getting the best grade of dry that they will eat, as the grain content in some can cause issues, and upset sensitive tums (as can wheat etc in humans), depends on each and every cat really.

Re teeth, you can dental biscuits which are supposed to help with tartar build up, the pieces of kibble are much larger and so the cat has to actually chew it, rather then just hoover it down as I find to be the case usually, but from my experience I'm not sure it helped much to be honest!

There are other products you can try, Logic Gel is an animal toothpaste which is quite good, my boy loves it and will go mad when I put some on my finger.  You can also get Plaque Off which is a powder form of sea kelp, but this is usually mixed into wet food so probably wouldn't be an option.

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

Just out of intrest, which dry food are you trying to introduce to Tish ?

[CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls]

I would say it depends on how active they are then decide wether to feed dry or wet. I feed mine a mixture of wet and dry food but have a cat that eats mostly dry through his own choice, he gets plenty of water to drink which I understand is a must with a dry diet as in the long run it could end up affecting their kidneys.  I also have a couple of cats that will gorb on the dry if they get the chance and they are also overweight as I find it hard to maintain keeping them away from it too, if I see them eating it I will move it and I dont leave the dry out for them, once the ones that are ok to eat the dry have eaten I move it 

I also wouldn't suggest a dry only diet for such a young kitten, slowly introduce the dry food and perhaps feed them at different times of the day so the other doesn't feel like its missing out?

[Momma`Kat]

Uh because everyone has come onto the thread with the "Dont feed kibble" line, rather than giving advice and tips on changing to kibble..

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

You asked for advice and have been given VERY GOOD advice but seem to urgue everything that people have said.....So I don't know why you asked in the first place.
Best thing really is for you to do what you think is best, that why you'll be happy with your choice.
Good luck

[Momma`Kat]

Ok lemme straighten this part out, She gets two wet meals a day, but there is kitten kibble down all day for her, so she isnt starved for the rest of the day there is food there, and when I feed her wet, i mix it into the kibble.

As for brands, Does it really matter which brand it is as far as her actually starting to eat dry food, its the concept of crunchies that she needs to grasp, not how to get fussy on this flavour or that.

Ive now got her bowl right next to my desk so i can have it down all day even if she doesnt eat the wet right away, it means I can chase buddy off it.

As for the cats "Telling me that they want wet food" Thats like putting Brussel Sprouts and a Chocolate bar infront of a child and asking which one it wants. I know the pros and cons of both, And have chosen dry.

As for Tish's progress, she has been nibbling on the kibble more especially at night. Ive been softening it just a little with warm water.

Oh and Vet wise, Both have been recently, and both are in great shape according to my vet, except for buddy having a little tartar. Any tips on cleaning cat teeth?

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

Hey guys,


Should I just persevere?

No you shouldn't persevere !
She is 8wks old, if she wants wet food then let her have it.

[Fire Fox]

Buddy is only greedy when it comes to wet food, Dry he isnt bothered so doesnt over eat, i dont control how much he gets atall.

As for Kibble vs Wet, Ive made the decision to use kibble, and id appreciate it if you could respect that and rather than come and slate my choice, perhaps actually give advice on what I asked?

Tish is about 8 weeks old yes, Cant be certain as she was a stray. Ive known lots of kittens to be weaned directly onto dry food with no issue, and have done it with a few in the past, only those who are a little slow to catch on I use meat to wean them with. She doesnt want 4 meals a day, so she doesnt get them, she never eats all of what i put down, and prefers to pick a mouthfull here and there when she wants it, which I cant let her do with wet food, without her being locked in the kitchen all day, and thats not fair.

I am sorry you feel we are not being helpful, I didn't read any posts that slated you - you simply got the combined experience of dealing with thousands of cats as many of the regulars are involved in rescue as well as their own furbabies. I don't always hear what I want to hear on Purrs but I have been around long enough to know that the regulars are very caring and invariably correct!!

An eight week old should have a healthy appetite, has she had a vet check up recently? Have you tried her on a different food? AFAIK there is no way to encourage a cat to eat a food it does not like short of force feeding, which I am sure you would not want to do. If you posted which brands of food you are using we can advise on a suitable alternative.

BazandGem: you need to be looking at the meat content not the protein content. Protein from plant sources is less bio-available (less well absorbed) than that from animal sources. Many dry foods will have a high protein content but a meat content as low as 4% which is not great for an obligate carnivore.

[BazandGem]

I've never owned an 8-week-old kitten so can't offer advice really. It does sound as if Tish is telling you she'd prefer wet food though. Is it possible to feed her smaller amounts more often, rather than twice a day? I know I wouldn't be able to myself as I'm out at work most of the day but it may be an option for you?

Incidentally, I've just been doing a bit of ingredient research - the biscuits Rossi has are 40% protein which seems to be one of the highest protein contents available in dry food. And I wouldn't say they're cheap!

Bazza was supposed to avoid wet food as he had such bad teeth but I gave him some a small amount with mostly biscuits, the two vets I saw with him had differing opinions on what was best diet-wise for a cat with very few teeth, so I decided to take the middle ground 

[Ellen2010]

Buddy is only greedy when it comes to wet food, Dry he isnt bothered so doesnt over eat, i dont control how much he gets atall.

As for Kibble vs Wet, Ive made the decision to use kibble, and id appreciate it if you could respect that and rather than come and slate my choice, perhaps actually give advice on what I asked?

Tish is about 8 weeks old yes, Cant be certain as she was a stray. Ive known lots of kittens to be weaned directly onto dry food with no issue, and have done it with a few in the past, only those who are a little slow to catch on I use meat to wean them with. She doesnt want 4 meals a day, so she doesnt get them, she never eats all of what i put down, and prefers to pick a mouthfull here and there when she wants it, which I cant let her do with wet food, without her being locked in the kitchen all day, and thats not fair.

Have you thought that we maybe trying to give you an informed choice such as health issues that can arise from feeding a completely dry diet.  I have myself fed my cats on dry only food for several years but have due to two cats now having medical conditions resulting from being fed completely dry diet now changed to completely wet food diet.  No one is slating you as you put it but are trying to warn you of potential consequences of feeding a completely dry diet.  I now have a 2 year old cat that is on medication for the rest of its life because the cat was fed a completely dry diet with the risk of a major flare up of what is wrong with the cat if the cat gets hold of a mouth full of dry food.

At the end of the day you asked for advice and that is all that people here have been trying to do.  So it was not what you wanted to hear so we are accused of slating you when we were giving our advice.

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Which brand of dry food are you feeding? There are some really poor quality dry foods out there, so much more so than with wet food. 

[Momma`Kat]

Buddy is only greedy when it comes to wet food, Dry he isnt bothered so doesnt over eat, i dont control how much he gets atall.

As for Kibble vs Wet, Ive made the decision to use kibble, and id appreciate it if you could respect that and rather than come and slate my choice, perhaps actually give advice on what I asked?

Tish is about 8 weeks old yes, Cant be certain as she was a stray. Ive known lots of kittens to be weaned directly onto dry food with no issue, and have done it with a few in the past, only those who are a little slow to catch on I use meat to wean them with. She doesnt want 4 meals a day, so she doesnt get them, she never eats all of what i put down, and prefers to pick a mouthfull here and there when she wants it, which I cant let her do with wet food, without her being locked in the kitchen all day, and thats not fair.

[Rosella moggy]

  to Purrs

Just realised that Tish is only 8 weeks old  .  I wouldn't be wanting to feed dry food at that age and would also be looking to feed her 4 times a day and not only two.  Such young uns need much more regular feeding than twice a day 

Perhaps I've got her age wrong?    Really am a little concerned and not surprised she seems so hungry and doesn't eat the dry.

[Fire Fox]

  Sorry if this comes over too bluntly, but ...

You may not be convinced about dry food being fattening, but scientific research says otherwise. Cats are obligate carnivores not evolved to process high quantities of grains (the primary ingredient in most kibbles), it depends on the cat's metabolism how well or badly they do on it but you won't know if there have been health implications - diabetes, renal failure - until it is too late.  Please note I am not against anti-kibble and do feed some Orijen.

I honestly cannot see the logic in thinking cats 'should' be able to free feed but then forcing them to accept a completely unnatural highly processed dry diet. That goes double when both cats are telling you what they think they should be eating! Not all wet cat food stinks or is more expensive than dry, unless you are using a poor quality dry food (check the meat content)? IMO most pouches are a rip-off as some are more jelly than meat so I use tins or cartons for Noah's wet and he particularly likes Bozita.

Arguably the cheapest, least smelly, slowest to eat AND most natural feline diet is raw - Noah rarely mithers for food on raw days and doesn't need to drink water unless he eats dry. Like your boy, Noah is indoor and VERY greedy so I control his portions to ensure he is does not gain weight.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Many cats put on weight when they're fed dry food because it's very calorie dense and very easy to overeat.  But if you're careful with how much you leave out, then you should be ok.  You'll also need to be sure that they are eating it equally if it's left out and one isn't scoffing it all.  I just can't free feed my cats as I did when they were small kittens but by the time they were about 6  months, Jaffa was eating the entire bowl (enough for both of them for the day) before I'd even left for work!   There's a lot to be said for feeding set meals as it's also easier to add any medication to food and make sure the right cat gets it etc.  But lots of people leave dry food down during the day then supplement with a bit of wet food once a day.

Good luck with getting Tish to go for the dry stuff!  How old is she?  As long as she's not a small kitten, I'd just leave it down and see whether she will go for it when she realises you aren't going to give her wet food.  Or just give in and feed them both wet food!

[Momma`Kat]

For the same reasons I just posted for wanting the kitten off wet food Lol.

[Gillian Harvey]

Why can't Buddy have wet food? 

[Momma`Kat]

Its not just cost that is a factor, the main thing is trying to make sure buddy doesnt take her food, it ends up with tish being locked in the kitchen, and buddy sulking cause I chased him off the bowl.

Im not convinced about he fattening part, Buddy is free fed kibble and has never had a weight problem and he is a purely indoor cat, a lazy one at that, Wheras if he was on meat, he would scoff down way more than he should and end up putting on weight.

Also cant leave wet food down all day, for both the above reasons, and it would go funky.. And I think cats should be allowed to snack through the day when they want it.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Hi 

I am agreement also that if she likes wet food I would encourage that for the reasons that Gillian has explained.  Why do you want her to eat dry?  Many on here feed half and half so that's an option, esp if cost is an issue (wet food does cost more than dry, but you can get cheaper, good quality wet food such as hi life) or maybe just feed wet food once a day or a few times a week.  But feeding some wet really is a good idea.  I don't know what to suggest about the dry food - I give my younger cat some dry sprinkled on top of the wet but if she won't eat it like that I'm not sure what else to suggest except just leaving the dry down and assuming she will eat when she's hungry and realises that nothing else is forthcoming.

[Ellen2010]

I am in agreement with most on here about if the cat prefers wet food to allow it the wet food.  The cat will be less stressed so will prevent it developing other illnesses such as Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease (more common in male cats) which can be made worse by being fed a dry diet.

I have some cats that will not eat wet food and others that are not allowed dry food.  Also have others that will eat different types of wet food only and one that is only allowed certain flavours due to a medical condition, so yes it is fun when I go shopping for cat food.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Its obviously up to you what you feed your cats but I do agree with Gillian about the moisture and think that cats should be on predominantly wet food, biscuits are more fattening also.

At worst think a half an half diet but if cats dont like biscuits then I dont think they should be forced onto them.