Feral Kitten Dilemma...

[Teresa Pawcats]

Julie 

[Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ]

Thanks CC

Me taking them kinda got vito'd and I haven't been able to find anyone else to take them in and tame them other than the possible rescue space. But instead of taking up valuable rescue space the people have now decided to keep the little family and continue to feed them all.

[Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ]

I knew what you meant Julie and also wouldn't want to lie T. My vets seem to go on the whole adult teeth = 6 months old or over rule. I didn't know exactly how old Soap was when we rescued her because she had originally come from a BSB so don't know how honest they were about her being 8 weeks old when she was sold. She should have been about 12 weeks when we rescued and that worked out about right by the vets reckoning. I'm in direct contact with the VN from my vets so I will sound out their views on possible early neutering (on the basis of us not knowing when they were born) before doing anything else. But right now getting mum done is the priority.

[CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls]

My mum also took on 2 feral boys at the age of 12 weeks and now to this day they are soppy little puddy tats  and of course Blackie he was around 6 when she took him on, he's not a pick-me-up cat but I can stroke him now without geting hissed at. I'd say it just depends on the time you have to spend with them 

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Teresa, I didn't say I was dishonest to vets, did I?  I can honestly say I do not know how old feral kittens are since I never saw them born... I can guess or chose to not guess. I don't think not guessing is classed as dishonest, is it? 

If not being able to judge acurately how old a feral kitten is can be classed as grounds for stopping them from practicising, we would need to strike off at least 6 practicing Canterbury vets of all ages and experiences from almost all practices we use. One such vet asked us to take a stray '5 month old kitten' who when we collected turned out to be around 2 years old from our guess. Said vet had been in practice in the same surgery for 35 years. 

The trouble is that vets are issued guidelines, both from practice managers and by the BVA. Those guidelines often say kittens should not be neutered before 6 months, and in one case we know of a practice manager refuses to neuter kittens under 8 months!  Some vets who are not species specialists or are lacking in confidence won't operate irrespective of whether the kitten has matured enough and be be easily and safely operated on. So I leave it to them to decide how old the kitten is. 

[Teresa Pawcats]

Sorry Julie but honesty is vital when dealing with vets, apart from that if a vet cannot guess a kittens age he shouldnt be in practice. Talk to your vet beforehand and ask straight if he will neuter early, explain the urgency, I prefer to wait till 6months BUT I have had 2 ferals done at 14weeks when I had no option but TNR.

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

The secret I have found is that you don't tell the vet how old you think they are.  I've had feral kittens neutered with no questions at around 12/14 weeks. I don't think I would push my luck younger than 12 weeks but I've been lucky to not trap them at that age before. (And sometimes deliberately left them to grow a bit being trapping) If I were to say I thought they were 12/14 weeks then our vet argues and says they are too small and then we have to haggle or find a different vet.  I just say to the vet we have ONE shot at getting them done because we may never catch them a second time.  I've never actually failed to get a youngster done one way or another. 

Really sorry about the 3 legged one.  Never nice losing one. 

[Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ]

I did wonder if early neutering would be a possibility because we cannot guarantee that the kittens won't wander off on their own over the next few months. I thought vets weren't too keen on early neutering in the UK or would it be advised because of the circumstances? How early as well? We are only guessing their age to be around 8-9 weeks.

[Teresa Pawcats]

So sad, you do realise that kittens could be neutered early.

I remember going trapping with Claire, it was out of area and I had delayed by 1 day, we arrived at site to find one kitten being eaten by a magpie (obvious roadkill), it shows no matter how hard you try things can and do go wrong
 

[Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ]

There have been some developments over the weekend and some sad news too

I had possibly got them a place at a rescue in Watford, my VN contact at my vet who helps me with Petsearch queries used to be involved in rescue (and still fosters) and she contacted one of her friends who possibly had space for them.

Gave the possible good news to my friend at work who then told me the sad news...the little 3 legged g&w kitten got killed by a car, they are not sure if it was hiding in the engine space and got caught up and then run over but everyone was really sad Her parents got a bit soft over the weekend and convinced themselves that they could keep the kittens and mum together now there are only the two of them. Which is of course good news but still very sad about little 3 legs. I'm now just sorting out the neutering voucher side for mum and will make sure the kittens get sorted in 4 months time.

I'm hoping that given time the kittens may learn to be less scared of humans because these people will always be feeding them...here's hoping anyway!!

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

8 weeks is my cut off point too. I did tame down a pair who came to me age 10 weeks but it took over 4 months.  They were/are timid adults at the end of it but luckily they were strikingly beautiful long hair tabbies and were eventually adopted by a lovely lady but she had to put a fair amount of work into them as well.  She is the only one they will come near and she's had them for 3 years. 

I know my views are unpopular with some but I believe if a stables or small holding are prepared to care for and watch over them, if they are over 12 weeks of age when trapped I get them neutered and released back. Wouldn't do it if they don't have anyone to care for them, mind you, but some stables homes are every bit as good if not better than a lot of the poorer indoor homes.  I recall a whole litter (3 gingers, 1 black) that came to me just too late... at least 10 weeks. We tried for a fortnight and got nowhere.  A farmer lady approached me looking for mousers and was prepared to put in the ground work settling them. They went to live with her and are having the time of their lives chasing mice out of the hay barns. They even come running when she calls them for supper.  They won't come closer than 4 feet from her though.  How long would kittens like that stay in a rescue pen? 

[Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ]

That's what I thought Liz when I first found out about him

[Liz]

Steff am around for hints and tips and scratch comparisons

The one with the sore legs sounds like our Charlie

[Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ]

I have to admit I already have a soft spot for the grey and white boy with the poorly leg *shy*

[Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ]

How would you like 3 new additions to The Clan Liz lol?!?

I'm really hoping a rescue can take them but I really doubt it.

I may be able to have one and if I do then I will probably need some advice from you guys...in particular you Liz. I was planning on extending the cat pen anyway which I would definitely need to do!!!

I will keep you posted x

[Liz]

Angie making them fod dependant is a way that works for me - not nice remove fo0d nice give nice food and treats - I do have several failed ones though hence the number of ferals we have some were to old some just don't want to leave they like the manner the food, cat milk and electric blankets provide = of course so readily available in the wild!

Angie ferals are my calling and I usually work at some point in the taming process to and still have all the other Clan cats and their doggies to deal with I think I can now get 28 hours in a day and just sleep less

[Angiew]

Steff not to late to tame at that age - they need time but should come round - I did 4 last year - 2 at 12 weeks Jet and Turbo nad then I got 2 at nearly 5 months all are food dependant and love treats and took a month in all - OH camer home to them all now known as Jet, Turbo, Aztec and maya - all are now happy healthy one year olds and are indoor/outdoor and come in to the Oodie doodie call - I am now working on he 18 month crew Indy, Harper and Riley and 2 out of 3 are coming on just Riley to get more socialable with humans!

yes but how many of you are there in the world?

[Liz]

Steff not to late to tame at that age - they need time but should come round - I did 4 last year - 2 at 12 weeks Jet and Turbo nad then I got 2 at nearly 5 months all are food dependant and love treats and took a month in all - OH camer home to them all now known as Jet, Turbo, Aztec and maya - all are now happy healthy one year olds and are indoor/outdoor and come in to the Oodie doodie call - I am now working on he 18 month crew Indy, Harper and Riley and 2 out of 3 are coming on just Riley to get more socialable with humans!

[Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ]

Thanks Angie

I was worried that it may be a bit late in the day to try and tame them. If I was able to find someone to take them would it be better for them to go together or be separated? Is it easier to try and tame 1 feral kitten instead of 3 is kinda what I'm thinking.

The lady is happy to keep the mum cat and sort out neutering with CP. What I'm hoping is that maybe she could be persuaded to keep mum and a kitten, my work friend persuade her hubby to have another of the kittens which only leaves one needing a home instead of 3.

Marble came from a similar environment but had been more exposed to humans but she has always been a more nervous cat bless her.

[Angiew]

if they are 8 weeks old they are getting to old to tame down. it can be done but takes a lot of time and they may always be nervous kittens who are overlooked in rescues.
I think that time would be better spent trying to find some good placements for them when they have been neutered. establish a regular feeding pattern so they can be trapped and neutered.
is your friends mum going to keep mum cat and any of the kittens?

[Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ]

Because of me doing Petsearch a colleague at work asked for my advise about a stray cat her mum was feeding at their small holding, they thought she was pregnant but never saw any kittens (and hadn't until today) so I was giving advice on neutering and CP vouchers etc. This has been going on for a good couple of months now and said cat is still unspayed but the kittens have now appeared and look (from piccies) pretty well advanced...around 8 weeks. There are 3 b&w, tabby&w and grey&w. Grey&w has a stumpy back leg

My colleague approached me about getting the kittens into a rescue and finally egtting mum spayed. Getting mum spayed will be the easy part but as we all know rescues are full to bursting. I contacted my local CP today and they have over 100 cats on their waiting list 35 of which are emergencies!!! I have some more to try but colleague said if she can't get them into a rescue then she will advertise on free ads....NOOOOO!!!

So now I'm involved and can't stop thinking about these 3 kittens. At least I know they are safe and they are not in any danger but I'm guessing the sooner they get in with humans the better because at the mo they are feral.

I'm trying to weigh up if I could 1) afford to take these 3 on 2) really accommodate them in my spare room and 3) have the time needed to socialise 3 feral kittens PLUS I don't want to upset my 3 monsters

I really don't know what to do