covcats - latest additions -RIP Samson 27/09/10

[Gillian Harvey]

Oh no, so sorry Angie 

[Bren22]

Oh Ange, I'm so sorry about little Annie.  I've been following the thread and hoping she'd begin to pull through.  I know you did your very best.  See you next week.

[LesleyW]

So sorry to read this Angie.  You did everything you could and it's no good thinking things could have been different, some times these little ones are not meant to stay with us, no matter what we do.  If our love alone could save them, they would thrive.

[hOrZa]

these threads make me sad

[clarenmax]

Aw, sorry to hear this hunnie 

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

I am so sorry to hear this.  Big hugs for you, Angie, as it's horrid losing them so young. 

The others look fine to me and I'm sure they'll be okay. 

[Angiew]

Sadly, Little Orphan Annie died during the night.
She was a right little fighter and ate well last night but was getting thinner each day so something must have been stopping her absorbing nutrients. I'd put her on the Liquivite the last couple of days and of course now I'm fretting that I should have persevered with the milk (and no doubt would fretting the other way now if I had done so).

Anyway, she might have been small, messy and smelly a lot of the time but she had a huge personality, a lovely little purr and was always stressed when away from her siblings during the feeding rounds.

Off to join her mum at 18 days old.

The others continue to do well and fingers crossed they continue to do so.

[madkittyrescue]

they're looking great Angie well done  ;-)

[JackSpratt]

I'm so pleased they are doing well now. 

Ditto. Great news.

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

I'm so pleased they are doing well now. 

[Tan]

Angie they look so wonderful. What a wonderful job ya doing hun.   

[Gillian Harvey]

I don't know how you're managing to keep yours looking so clean! I must be doing something wrong, its even worse now we're trying solid food porridge 

[LesleyW]

Pleased to hear about the toothpaste  , it's amazing how all of us rescues get so excited about pooh


Keep up the good work Angie.

[Teresa Pawcats]

Thats great news Angie.
Another little tip I discovered recently Vaseline lip balm is actually better for kittens sore bums, its not as thick and glides on easily. I will confess to having very sore lips at present 

[Angiew]

This morning I managed to get some toothpaste from Annie!

Thanks to the experience of Lesley and Fab T, I have been continuing the Lectade/Milk and also giving them a couple of mls of live yogurt each day so lets hope we are turning a corner here.

Just come back from vets with them and by the time I got in they were all covered in toothpaste so needed a bit of a clean.

Annie came in at 180g and the others 230 - 260g. Annie is a bit red underneath but not infected and am putting on a little vaseline.

All well hydrated and lively!

we talked about worming and vet says leave it a bit to let things settle down before upsetting tummies.
And we also taked about weaning early , again something for next week.....

[Angiew]

Tried to take a photo to compare to the original ones but didn't want to wake them up yet so its not very good for comparisons.....



9 days ago...



Time for 3rd feed soon but must have a wash and clean my teeth first!

[Angiew]

well weekend over thank goodness.
Samson, Lottie and Bob continue to get bigger.
Little orphan Annie is holding her own, still giving her a mixture of milk/lectade and she still has the runs and is constantly hungry. have just given in and given her a bit more milk, she is about half the size of the others. have not weighed any of them.

is there anything more i can do? is it worth adding a little lacto-b into her food?

[madasacatter]

Angie you already have the solution!  You have those little plastic bags, just freeze a few spoonfuls in those, you will need to bag them up anyway.  If not I can lend you ice cube trays.

I did think of freezing it, because like you, when you only need small amounts for tiny kittens, or just the odd feed for the cat or kitten who needs a little nursing, I would be there trying to guesstimate with teaspoons!  The only thing that stopped me, was the concern that there was some special ingredient which would "be killed or destroyed" by the freezing process.  But having never got around to studying the individual ingredients about from sugars and salts, I just did what you were doing to save the Group some pennies.

[Angiew]

My vet said I could make the Lectade up as usual and that you can freeze it - I put it in in ice cube trays, so that I can just defrost 1 cube at a time if needed.

see, I'd never have thought of that - will have to go and get some ice trays though ( )

Anyone for G+T ?

[Gillian Harvey]

Had to clear the carrier and start again and have given them all a 'flannel' wash. And I know everyone says it, but they really did enjoy the hairdrier

Does anyone have a sure fire way of conserving Lectade? I have split the packets up into 5 equal (by sight!) heaps in sliver foil, keeping both parts separate and using a dose in 100mls of water - is there a more obvious way?

Angie, my two loved the wash and blow dry too!

My vet said I could make the Lectade up as usual and that you can freeze it - I put it in in ice cube trays, so that I can just defrost 1 cube at a time if needed.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Good luck with them Angie

[madasacatter]

The Lectade may well add a few more calories, because of the sugars in it.  If you remember I was adding it to the milk of the very poorly kittens we had last year?

Although I wondered if by doing that it would make the milk go through the system too quickly, as when babies are constipated I believe you had to give water with a little sugar in it.  I am not  very well qualified to say that as all my 6 had "home brew" and thankfully never suffered from constipation.  I just had the thought that you probably need it in there long enough to derive the calories from the milk itself.

I think you are doing a brilliant job Angie, and it has been lovely to see how well they are doing despite your worries.  I beet you hardly know what day it is! 

[Angiew]

Well they've now officially been here over a week, it seems like months.

Weighed them all today and Lottie and Samson are now at 230g , Bob stable at 200g but to my horror Annie (now little orphan Annie) was only at 160g (she was 200g two days ago). She feels smaller and its nice to have the weight to back it up - though I don't rely on them to be totally accurate.

Anyway being worried they all had another trip to the vet today. Temps taken , all normal. All still bright. Annie obliged after her temp was taken and deposited a lot of what looked like undigested milk over the carrier and siblings - obviously the thermometer had open her up a bit.

Anyway vet said there was no reason to give her anything at this stage as abs could make things were and there was no clinical reason to give her any. So  am to carry on doing what I am doing....and if she becomes listless take her in.

Still worried and phoned up another vet we use and they told me exactly the same thing.

In PM's to Lesley,  have been diluting Annies milk with Lectade , in fact I gave them all a lectade feed this evening.

Had to clear the carrier and start again and have given them all a 'flannel' wash. And I know everyone says it, but they really did enjoy the hairdrier and its a very old noisy thing. Still they feel nice and soft and smell a tad better - though I doubt it will last long.

so another day almost over and another feed sometime before bed.

Does anyone have a sure fire way of conserving Lectade? I have split the packets up into 5 equal (by sight!) heaps in sliver foil, keeping both parts separate and using a dose in 100mls of water - is there a more obvious way?

[Gillian Harvey]

Blimey! my 20 day olds don't look much bigger than your 7 day olds! I'm struggling with just two, don't know how you manage with 4! well done!

[Shirley]

Awww poor mumcat       Think you're wonderful hand rearing these tiny babies! Hope they all survive, they're sooooo cute! 

[Angiew]

Thanks Nicky , Alfie may be having a visitor soon so tell him to be on best behaviour!

Kittens back in to vets and all had a small enema. When she brought them back out she said they all had to have a good clean after so hopefully it will help settle them down. In fact just had another feed and they are now as quiet as mice.

off to dentist, pick up the 3-legged cat from the vets to jills , back in time for next feed. OH's birthday today. got him nothing and only spoke to wish him a happy birthday some time this morning - I'll use the peace at the dentists to think about a quick pressie for him - it will take my mind off the tooth that will probably come out.......
 

[LilyandGary]

Morning Angie

Just wondering how its going? Its exhausting with hand rearing, from what I can remember. Well done for getting so far already with them. If you need a hand, just call.

Alfie sends his regards and best wishes. He would love to come and see you, but he`s too busy demolishing the blinds with Clare at the mo. None of them seem to be bothered with the noise of my builders trying to install a cat-flap through an outside wall! He has turned into a bit of wind-up merchant on the quiet, mugging the others when they are asleep, then protesting when they pin him down and chastise him. What a charachter he is!

Hope you get some sleep soon. I`m off to measure up for where the cat-flap ramp should go. Decisions, decisions!

Nicky, Alfie and the rest.

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Sounds normal.... the noise part anyway. In the wild, domestic kittens need to yell loud enough to alert mum - who may be off hunting 2 fields away. They are like foghorns and you do wonder how something so small can make such a racket!  Native wild cats on the other hand are totally silent I gather. 

I remember we had a badly constipated hand rear a year or so ago. It was all due to an extremely heavy worm burden. Caroline had to give her several enemas to get things back on track.... mind you, Caroline is a registered nurse so it's water off a duck's back. 

[Angiew]

Phoned up the vet to ask about the poo thing and she said "have you got a glass thermometer, you can use it to str...." and I butted in "I'll be there in 10 minutes"

Anyway, by the time I got there there was one deposit in the carrier and she felt the others and said it should be tomorrow.

The kittens, especially Lottie, have just had a 2 hour screaming session. Whether I am over feeding, or the long teats are giving them to much gas I don't know, but I will take a step back in the feeding tomorrow and not use the teats and give them a max. of 4 mls per feed.

Such a racket! Who knows, attention seeking, colic, wind, teething (a bit early? but they are gumming the bars of the carrier and fingers) all is now quiet and its bliss. I had a similar session yesterday evening, but not as bad. Ideas anyone?

[Tan]

lovely pics Ange 

They look like they in bliss in your care 

[clarenmax]

Soooooooooo teeeeeeny 

[Angiew]

Day 2 for me and day 7 for them!
Now on 8 feeds at between 4 and 6 mls a go. Last feed midnight last night then at 6am, 10am and 1pm

Photos and names.....

First one is Bob and photo is rubbish, but I learnt from him so others are better!

Bob is mainly tabbly with white mits and chest - you'll have to take my word for it!






Lottie is tabby and white with a grey nose. Didn't get one of her feeding.



Annie is also tabby and white, more white on her and a white nose.



Last but not least is Samson, all black. His cord dropped off last night.

[Angiew]

Thanks for your replies.

Also its not a bad thing to let them cry for a minute or two when they do wake for food as it helps to strengthen their lungs.

They certainly don't need any training in this department at the moment!

Also make sure that you give them a good massage after a meal. 1 to wind them and 2 to help prevent skinny kitten huge belly!!   

Isn't that the best bit about them? 

[madkittyrescue]

Angie - if they are settled and sleeping I'd leave them be if they are eating OK.  Generally they will let you know when they are hungry. Also its not a bad thing to let them cry for a minute or two when they do wake for food as it helps to strengthen their lungs.

4 - 5 mls at 5 days old is fine.  I generally find that the guideline amounts are off what 'real' kittens actually take.  So long as they are not over feeding don't worry too much.

Also make sure that you give them a good massage after a meal. 1 to wind them and 2 to help prevent skinny kitten huge belly!!   

I'm up to my eyes in hand rears, kittens, etc at the moment myself so not on the board much at the moment.  Feel free to PM me though with any questions, etc OK?    

good luck and get the sleep in while you can xx

Modified to add - Re the poo - it can take 2 or 3 days for food to work its way through their wee bodies if they were pretty empty when you got them.  So don't worry though if it goes on longer see the vet and/or water down your milk mix a little more to keep fluids going through and help 'soften'

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Gee whizz..! 5 days old! That's scarey! 

I seem to recall it's 2/3 hours at that age. But don't quote me as our Caroline always does the tinies and I take over from about 3/4 weeks. She doesn't wake them up for a feed unless she's worried about them under-eating. She's on hols at the moment or I'd ask her. 

Really good luck.... you're so brave!  I'm a coward with the tinies. 

[Angiew]

All 4 have done well today. In fact have changed from the 1 ml syringe to a 2ml syringe, which is a bit scary as they can empty it in about 3 seconds on suction alone.

Also just tried one of the Nikki long teats on the end (had to use it to get to the milk in the bottle) and offered it to the boys and they purred like mad while guzzling so must be more like mum, though the nurse/vet warned me off them as she said she was always worried if it was going down the right tube!.
So on the last feed, each had 2 syringes (and a bit!) so thats 4 - 5 mls each.

Really conscious that the feeding guidelines for cimicat for them is only about 35-40mls each per day, so do I feed less per feed or drop the number of feeds? I am waking them up to feed them at the moment, what do you think guys?

Also they have yet to poo, though I've had them over the 24hrs. Any thoughts?

[madasacatter]

Good morning, I did check in earlier, and you thankfully may well have been asleep!  I have walked 1 foster dog and my big lad, just taking the two girls next.  Will do the cats, and check to see if the new foster kittens have visitors, as last week they were treated with a supermarket purchased treatment.    I will see if any visitors they may or may not have have seen a sticky end due to the Frontline spray!

I will be there for the feed at 12.00 to lend a hand, see you then!  Keep up the good work and have a nap before I come. 

[Dawn F]

poor little babies and poor mum cat - hope they do well

[Angiew]

Judith came round and helped with 10pm feed which made it easier.
Another feed at 12, then 3 am and 7 am. Next one coming up now...... in fact I'm late with it, napping in between feeds and doing my lot and the other fosters.

Bags under my eyes are bigger than they are and I haven't done 24 hours yet (though in my defence I was up at 6 am yesterday, fed everyone and hoovering just after 7 - knew it was a mistake!)

[Angiew]

 

are they weaned yet?

3 feeds in and ?? to go..... taking between a ml and 2.5 each feed - one meal they'll eat well the other they won't even to a rousing chorus of this little train.....

found a few friends on them - waiting for Judith to rally round with some frontline spray - she's just accepted two in this evening. 

They have also taken a liking to my old T-shirt, I have decide to wear it each time I feed and found they only settle down when I put it in the carrier with them. They all cuddle up to it fighting over imaginary nipples so I guess Mr-T is surrogate mummy (and there was me thinking it was Auntie Angie!).

Sn whole hour till the next feed  zzzzzz