very sad morning

[CurlyCatz]

threads go off on red herrings all the time.

instead of talking about dead people and dead children which i find very distasteful

i found that very disrespectful considering we have a member who has admitted to losing two of her children.

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

how do u know that please? when u dont know me

[Dawn F]

lucky you've never had any then

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

can we try and keep to the subject
instead of talking about dead people and dead children which i find very distasteful

[CurlyCatz]

dawn im sure you werent rubbish just dealt with it in the only way you knew how at the time.

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

heres another one

[attachment deleted by admin]

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

This is my precious photo of a very precious special boy

[attachment deleted by admin]

[fuzziesdad]

im sure it would.

I will agree as you get older its not such a trial to see someone you love who is dead believe me it help you.

[Dawn F]

I'm not offended at all!  Just wanted to say that yes it was true in my case that we did get the offer my first son was stillborn and the support group for people who have had stillborns called SANDS is a big advocate of this so hospitals feel a bit pressured to offer it, like I said I didn't do it, I was a bit rubbish at the whole thing really and even turned down photos

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

The owner of the dog did say " im afraid he will go for any cat or small dog "

sooooo im afraid i think he is irrisponsible for not supervising or muzzling his dog

[Cheesecat]

(I did not mean to offend by the way, just had an instant reaction to that)

[CurlyCatz]

im sure it would.

[Cheesecat]

dawn i imagine if you have nursed your child through cancer or some terrible illness then it would be natural to carry them onto your lap in the back of a car and have them at home to hold and hug and to say your goodbyes. 

I suppose so  - I have a bit of a fear of dead bodies or things though, I think that is what makes me feel a bit   about it. I cant touch things if i know its dead  

Although, I have never had a pet die or seen a person I loved once they had passed on so I suppose that might be different.

[Dawn F]

speaking as someone who has had two babies die, it is true that you get the chance to take them home - not something I ever did and couldn't really see how it would help but hospitals do offer it and some parents like to take them so they feel like they have had them at home and not all memories are in hospital

[CurlyCatz]

dawn i imagine if you have nursed your child through cancer or some terrible illness then it would be natural to carry them onto your lap in the back of a car and have them at home to hold and hug and to say your goodbyes. 

[CurlyCatz]

i definately remember people used to think this but we found out proper fact and its not the case, atleast not anymore..of course unless england is different.
I dont think much of that ladys vet though not letting her take the body home.

[Cheesecat]

Many parents even take their dead child home in the car with them if they have died of known causes in hospital (i found that quite disturbing)

Why would you do that?

Fair enough, with animals you might want to bury them in the garden.. but why not just let the child body go straight to the morgue?  

[fuzziesdad]

firstly RIP little one.
secondly last I heard a cat was considered in law as semi-wild and in law can roam anywhere it wants.but if you don't want cats in your garden you cannot allow your dog to attack it and I think this is where the new law comes in it states any animal must be able to "show its  normal behavior"so trying to pick the bones out of this situation will be a major job.
heres a stort of two ginger cats.
ginger vincent who has now passed on used to terrorize dogs in our street in Brighton dog walkers would take their dogs across the street to avoid him lounging on our wall looking rather nasty.
harriet out last intake came to us at 5 months old supposed stray she had been attacked by 4 dogs 3 staffies and an alsasian rotty cross,poor girl had teeth marks all over her and whenever she hears a dog dashes for home.

PS last time we were at the vets a little jack russel was PTS its not nice but I'm sure the vets get used to it(we had a vet in Brighton and the two times we had to have fred and paddy PTS he cried like a baby...but was a fantastic vet)   

[Ela]

Ela it is definately not illegal to take your pets body home although there used to be some discrepancy

That is what I have been told by more than one vet,  infact someone rang me in tears only a couple of weeks ago to say the vet she used (not mine) would not let her take her cat home and insisted it went for cremation. It did not have any disease just worn out due to old age.

[CurlyCatz]

susanne i'm with you and if a dog who doesnt like cats is in its own secured garden then absolutely no way should muzzles be enforced upon it. My greys like cats but should one wander into my garden and they chase well...we'd have to hope for a good outcome but im not going to muzzle my dogs every trip outside for all these years in the off chance a cat might wander by. (i dont actually think they would attack but i'd guess they'd run after it)

Ela it is definately not illegal to take your pets body home although there used to be some discrepancy on the burying of the body in council property but the council never did anything about it.

Many parents even take their dead child home in the car with them if they have died of known causes in hospital (i found that quite disturbing)

[ccmacey]

If the dog is naturally visious and attcks all animals then i believe the owner has the juty to make sure no harm can come to others.

This this morning I believe was just a case of being too close to the dog, but yes dogs do go for cats and the only way that can be stoped is to manage the dog properly.

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

yes i do i have two when he was really tiny which r on display in my kitchen and i have a photo of him taken when he first started going out which was at about 3mths old
he died just b4 he was 6mths old ,ill try and get a pic of him on my pc and ill put it up .

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

he sounds adorable.  Do you have any pictures of him?

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

 

yea it was awful
its still a very painful subject and i still hurt so much he is missed terribly every single day
he would of been 10 next month
he was and still is the most pefect little cat ive ever known ,he was so handsome and so loving
he use to like being wrapped in a blanket like a newborn baby and he loved being gently rocked to sleep with me patting his back , he adored going out and although he had a very short life he was very happy and very loved .

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

But when someone lets there cat out they cant control where its going to go ,

Exactly - when you let a cat roam free (and I'm not saying I'm against indoor/outdoor cats) there are risks.  It may get in a cat fight, be involved in a traffic accident or get into a fight with a dog.  Those are the risks that go with letting a cat go outside.  Wihere a dog is involved, it may be the dog's fault, it may be the dog owner's fault, it may be the cat's fault or it may just be a tragic accident.  Without being there it's impossible to know which of those factors played a part.  I do agree that aggressive dogs should be muzzled but I don't think it should be a requirement of keeping a dog that it gets on with cats.  And if someone keeps a dog that doesnt' like cats and a cat comes into the garden, well, sadly there could be a tragic outcome.  Yes cats have rights but so do dogs - esp when their on their own property.

I'm sorry about your cat.  That must have been horrible.

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

But when someone lets there cat out they cant control where its going to go ,  i know when my darling bubbles was killed by a dog we went to the police,rspca, and solicitor was told theres nothing that can be done if a cat enters someones private garden and there happens to b a dog there ,but if it had happend on the street then that would of been diferent ,  and since that day i made the decsion to never let out any cat that i got in the future , coz id not be strong enough to ever go through that again it would brake me !
im extremley upset about this tabby cat this morning and i didnt even know the cat ,
for so long after my cat was killed i was terrified of dogs and though tthey were all bad , my dog has taught me different , he has shown me that dogs can be so gentle and loving towards cats , the vets told the owner to go home and knock all his neighbours see if anyone owned the cat but i really cant see him doing that , how on earth can u go and tell someone that ur dog has killed there cat it must b a terribly hard thing to do
and depending on what kind of owner the cat had u dont know wat the reaction would be to that news ,
i wont even write wat my reaction would be ,
but id defo blame the owner for it not the dog .

[Kittybabe (Ruth)]

furbaby: im sorry but u r wrong !

I think you're being a tad bit unfair on Michelle for her opinion. It is in fact, her opinion, as yours is to you. It doesn't mean she's wrong or that you are wrong either..

I am sorry this little cat was killed, its awful, I wouldn't wish this on anyone. However, unless any one of us was there to see exactly what happened I don't think its fair to judge the dog or the owner. I lived with german shepherds who tolerated our cats. They were family pets and respected in the neighbourhood as good watchdogs. They were kept in their own environment, they were not exposed to the public areas.

We never had to muzzle them in their own home and garden even though our cats and those of neighbours used to visit the garden when the dogs were out. We would be careful of strangers visiting and keeping the dogs away.

Dogs are like any large animal, unpredictable. And so are cats for that matter. 

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

But isn't someone's garden private property?  Surely it's the responsibility of the cat owner to keep the cat off someone else's property? (morally if not legally) and that's one (of many) reasons why my cats are kept indoors.  I'm not sure I'd be prepared to muzzle a dog just so that it could go out into my own garden, but then again, I wouldn't have an aggessive dog in the first place as I believe the owners are generally to blame for aggressive dogs.  But even a non aggressive dog may attack a cat that came into it's garden.

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

Yes even in there own garden ,theres cats about everywhere
and if my dog was like that he would b muzzled in the garden if not supervised with me sitting out there with him ,
id not ever forgive myself if my dog killed a cat as i said in an earlier post that would be it im afraid ! and it takes a lot for me to say that coz i adore my dog i love him so very much he is my baby my whole world !
but cats have rights
surely they can go for a walk about round the neighbourhood without being kliled by a dog
and if the dog is properly trained and properly socialised they shouldnt even think about killing or attacking an animal!

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

dog owners with dogs who dont like cats should muzzle the dog when there r cats around end of!

Even if they're in their own gardens?   I do agree that aggessive dogs that are likely to attack a person or a cat without provocation should be muzzled, but many dogs are territorial and will defend their territory from what they see as an intruder.  My sister's dogs would bark at any cat that came into their garden so the neighbourhood cats soon learned to stay away.  Not all dogs will get on with cats, although some obviously do, and if a cat and dog get into a fight the cat is likely to come off worse due to the size difference.  We can't always assume that in every instance it's the dog's fault.

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

furbaby: im sorry but u r wrong !
i have a massive german shepherd who lives with and loves 7 cats , he has never once even accidently hurt one while running and barking at the door etc
plus my mum has a staffiex collie and she has cats
theres loads of dogs who live with cats
my dog often gives up his bed and lets my cat strech out and sleep in his bed ,
i had my precious much loved kitten killed by a neighbours dog 9 yrs ago
so this subject is very close to my heart ,
dog owners with dogs who dont like cats should muzzle the dog when there r cats around end of!

[Ela]

The thing is it is natural for a dog to attack a cat and i dont think the dog should be PTS.

My Badger never felt the need to attack a cat  even some stange cat that have have wondered into the garden,in fact he was scared of some of them.

as dogs dont like cats!

I know loads of dog that love cats

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

R.I.P little cat and well done to the owner of the dog for taking the cat to the vets.

The thing is it is natural for a dog to attack a cat and i dont think the dog should be PTS.
My new neighbours have a dog and i am scared to bits that it will attack my cats.
I spoke to my neighbour about this as she is worried too  and said to her that although i would be devastated if anything ever happened i wouldnt hold her responsible as dogs dont like cats!

We tend to keep a close eye on things, if she lets her dog in the garden i get my cats in and likewise with her

[Ela]

many people seeming to want to know whether the dog was provoked in any way.

I agree about the children bit, a while ago there case a piece in our local paper calling for a dog to be PTS until the incident it had never done anything wrong in its life. It crime was to jump up at a child and scratch it. Now that dog was on its lead tied to a lamp post while its owner was in a shop. So the child must have gone up to the dog and in my opinion the dog was not to blame.

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

i see wat u mean
but i think dog owners of dogs who r not cat friendly should take precautions
fair enough if they dont want to acompany the dog out to the garden every time but surely they could just put a muzzle on it .

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

very sad but whether it's a cat or a person I'd want to know a bit more about what happened before suggesting the dog be pts.  I hate it when children get attacked by dogs and the immediate assumption is that the dog must be pts without many people seeming to want to know whether the dog was provoked in any way.

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

any dog that does that to a cat should defo b pts imo
if the dog has done it once it can do it again
the owners of the dog said " im afraid he will go for any cat or small dog "
omg then why not muzzle it when u cant supervise it in the garden
where ever my dog goes im always with him even if its just when he goes for a wee , coz he has a habbitt of barking at the neighbours if he is on his own out there , but omg if i owned a dog that wasnt cat friendly id take precautions at all times !!!
i feel so sorry for the owner of the cat when they find out ,
im so glad i keep my little ones indoors at least i know they r safe .

[Hippykitty]

MM, I just queried Ela about that on another thread (the Animal Welfare thread), as my mum's dog was pts 2years ago and is buried in her garden.

[Millys Mum]

How horrible, RIP little one.

I know it is against the law to let you take the body

Is it Ela? I didnt know that. I know if you bury your pet its illegal to exhume it.

[Mark]

It's terrible -  I think that any dog that is that aggressive should be PTS as it could just as easily have been a child - not that a cat is any less important in my eyes. I always assumed that nurses etc had hearts of stone but my nurse friend said she always cried when they lost a patient (she also used to tell the patient that they had passed over and not to be frightened!) .

Poor cats do get the short straw in life.