help - quick! published age for kitten to leave mum

[sweepster]

Ooh send a copy to the Hinckley Times as well!
Don't use too many long words though 

[Angiew]

OH just read out 'kittens for sale, 6 weeks old' from local rag.  'A must see!' apparently.
Pity their own selective vision blinds them to the overflowing cat rescues in the area.  Bah.

i wrote a letter to the cov. telegraph about a similar ad yesterday

[sweepster]

OH just read out 'kittens for sale, 6 weeks old' from local rag.  'A must see!' apparently.
Pity their own selective vision blinds them to the overflowing cat rescues in the area.  Bah.

[sweepster]

I guess spelin n gramer weren't essential course components at that 'vet' skool...

Or logic 

ETA: 'sometimes with animals these things can happen. Get over it!'
They should have this printed on their stationery, it'll do wonders for their business 

[Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ]

Brilliant response Angie, I totally agree with everything you said...especially the ignorance bit. People do need educating, a lot of people aren't aware of the problems although I know there are some others who don't care and are just after a quick buck!

I am totally behind you and I'm hoping through my work for Petsearch I will be able to help educate people too. In particular with the breeding of cats and Staffies - being a staffie owner it breaks my heart to see hundreds upon hundreds in rescues and knowing that numerous perfectly well staffies are being put to sleep daily...yet I still see show many adds for puppies for £200!!! Makes me so sad and angry

[Mark]

BSB with 7 years experience more like! 

[Angiew]

I have complained about so many young kittens on the birmingham site that I wrote a post about 9 kittens being 9 weeks old and yes, someone responded.....

You are aware that gumtree is an advertsing website for people selling unwanted items. Including pets?

Your advertisement is also your own opinion and will mislead innocent people, who are willing to take animals into a better home. The people selling or giving away these kittens regardless of thier age obviously can't keep them for whatever reason, so they would be better off going to a better home rather than being dumped. Trust me, I see this all the time. Kittens been dumped!

As an experienced Vet who has done 7 years training kittens should be atleast 12 weeks before leaving the mother to keep them healthy, but this is not always the case. We've had kittens that have been rejected by thier mother and we have taken care of them and they are fine, infact in some instances develop better personalities.

Kittens are fast growers, and this means fast learners too. Cats have been demoesticated for hundreds of years now, they are not wild and can be taken care of just fine by humans at a young age without growing up with behavioural issues.

I suggest you look at the 'real' world and how people treat animals, rather than give your own opinions to stop animals going to good homes.

People like you, force people to put cats and kittens into rehoming centres where they spend thier live sin cages, or end up being abandoned because there is no one there to look after them.

Better to be looked after even at a young age, than not at all. And yes, I'm not condoning un expereinced breeders, but sometimes with animals these things can happen. Get over it!

This ad is live on gumtree if you wish to respond to him at http://birmingham.gumtree.com/birmingham/70/60112470.html

my reply below -

As an experienced vet, I wonder why you are bothering to look on Gumtree.

I am a trustee of Coventry Cat Group, so am in the real world thank you. We have 'helped' out
various people who had advertised on Gumtree and in one case the intervention led to us rushing off at 11pm to an emergency vet with 20 odd cats and kittens and so far costing us over £1000.
The advert is not my own opinion, I can quote several sources , in fact I include some of them below -

http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Satellite?blobcol=urlblob&blobheader=application/pdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=RSPCABlob&blobwhere=1099596629315&cachecontrol=

http://www.fabcats.org/owners/kittens/pedigree.html

I have no idea where your assumption that animals homed from Gumtree will be going into better homes comes from, I think the reality is far from it!

And the reason you see kittens being dumped all the time is because sites like gumtree encourage people to have kittens to make money, then, especially at this time of year until Xmas , find they cannot sell them or even give them away - and much to their surprise find us rescues are too full to sort out their problems.

Unless people are told things like this they will go on doing the same thing out of ignorance - not to mention greed and the fact that once a kitten is six weeks old it takes a lot of hard work and money feeding it correctly and keeping trays clean.

As a vet with 7 years training you must also have come across the very ill kittens that nothing can be done for- we certainly do all the time, rife with diarrhea , worms and flu. Fading kitten season is also still prevalent at this age.
Some of the kittens sold at 6 weeks aren't. we picked up a mum whose kittens had been homed at 5 weeks, her full of milk and mastitis and her owner not aware of doing anything wrong.

[Karen-covcats]

she also asked how to stop next doors cat from spraying on her kitchen door - I told her to get her cats neutered!

    Love it!

[Angiew]

I got an "ok" from all the links I sent but I probably think they have gone already.

she also asked how to stop next doors cat from spraying on her kitchen door - I told her to get her cats neutered!

[sweepster]

Sadly in a book written by a reputable vet that works for Your Cat (Francesca Riccomini) she states six weeks is old enough. I stopped reading when I read that.

I personally feel that 10 - 12 weeks is a good time to let the little ones go to new homes, but that is just an opinion.

And the trouble is that these jokers are always likely to shave a week or two off anyway, in order to get rid of the hassle or speed up the turnover, so if you have someone stating an age of 6 weeks is acceptable for rehoming then it is going to be interpreted as '6ish', or '5-6', and after all, 4 and a half is nearly 5, and we can't quite remember the actual day they were born anyway...   

It's like the rescues advising people to keep their new cat indoors for six weeks after rehoming, in the hope that this will mean they keep it in for three...

[JackSpratt]

Sadly in a book written by a reputable vet that works for Your Cat (Francesca Riccomini) she states six weeks is old enough. I stopped reading when I read that.

I personally feel that 10 - 12 weeks is a good time to let the little ones go to new homes, but that is just an opinion.

[Angiew]

This makes it clear that kittens should never leave mum before 8 weeks and preferably 12 weeks when coordination more fully develpoed.  May not be your choice of charities Angie but will the person you are sending this to think more highly of CP, fabcats or RSPCA?  

http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Satellite?blobcol=urlblob&blobheader=application/pdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=RSPCABlob&blobwhere=1099596629315&cachecontrol=*:15,45:00+*/*/*&ssbinary=true

Sorry for delay.  I see you've already gone ahead.  You might want to send this anyway

I did look on their site but couldn't find anything - always the way........ they've probably been sold by now anyway 

[Angiew]

all sent - will she reply or just ignore??

[snarf]

http://www.fabcats.org/owners/kittens/pedigree.html

Reputable breeders will not sell kittens below 13 weeks of age, which is in line with GCCF guidelines. CA specify a minimum of 12 weeks of age. This is because both organisations recommend that kittens are fully vaccinated against FIE (feline infectious enteritis) and 'cat 'flu' before they leave the breeder. This should have been completed at least a week before the kitten leaves home, in order to minimise the stress to the kitten and to ensure that it is fully protected before it goes to its new home.

ETA, too slow!

is it worth us stickying collections of links like these so that we can access them quickly for fighting internet stupidity?

[sweepster]

Send her this to add to her 'big knowledge' too...   
http://www.catchat.org/kittens.html

Also on Fabcats, but regarding pedigree kittens:
http://www.fabcats.org/owners/kittens/pedigree.html
Age of the kitten
Reputable breeders will not sell kittens below 13 weeks of age, which is in line with GCCF guidelines. CA specify a minimum of 12 weeks of age. This is because both organisations recommend that kittens are fully vaccinated against FIE (feline infectious enteritis) and 'cat 'flu' before they leave the breeder. This should have been completed at least a week before the kitten leaves home, in order to minimise the stress to the kitten and to ensure that it is fully protected before it goes to its new home.

[Tiggy's Mum]

Maybe this link would help focus her mind, http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/tax-evasion/hotline.htm

You can bet she is not declaring her 'income' of pushing out repeated litters of kittens from those poor Mum cats   

[Rosella moggy]

This makes it clear that kittens should never leave mum before 8 weeks and preferably 12 weeks when coordination more fully develpoed.  May not be your choice of charities Angie but will the person you are sending this to think more highly of CP, fabcats or RSPCA?  

http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Satellite?blobcol=urlblob&blobheader=application/pdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=RSPCABlob&blobwhere=1099596629315&cachecontrol=*:15,45:00+*/*/*&ssbinary=true

Sorry for delay.  I see you've already gone ahead.  You might want to send this anyway

[Tiggy's Mum]

You should point them in the direction of Yahoo answers, they'll probably have more respect for that than vets advice 

Couldn't find anything RSPCA/CP wise but there's a kitten care guide on teh Whiskas site that says:

By the time your kitten is eight weeks old, her mother has taught her all she can and it’s time for you to take over.

http://www.whiskas.co.uk/kittens-care-the-first-few-months

[Angiew]

still haven't found anything 'proper' but sent this

umm ......

http://cats.about.com/cs/kittencare/a/findkithomes.htm

4. Keep the kittens for at least 8 weeks. If you remove them from their mother before then, the kittens will not have completed their "basic training." Even at 12 weeks, although much more autonomous, the kittens are still establishing social skills learned from their litter mates and mother.

http://www.breedlist.com/faq/young.html

"Kittens should leave their homes at a minimum age of twelve weeks," says Dr. Betsy Arnold, DVM, a veteran Siamese breeder and veterinarian with an all-feline practice in Rochester, New York called Caring for Cats. "In my practice I have seen kittens coming in at six and seven weeks who weight twelve, maybe fourteen ounces. These are infants. They needed to stay with their mothers."
Twelve weeks may seem old to people accustomed to seeing newspaper ads advertising kittens who are "ready to go" at six or eight weeks of age. Most of us who have had cats have acquired kittens that young. They are cute at that age, and most people enjoy having such young kittens to watch them grow. However, we may permanently harm kittens by separating them from their mothers so early. There are crucial mental, emotional, and developmental milestones that a kitten experiences between six and twelve weeks of age. Separating the kitten from mother, siblings, and familiar surroundings at that age can cause undue anxiety and stress at the least, and serious medical problems or even death in the very worst cases.

what sites did you look at?

[Angiew]

I just moaned about someone and she sent the following but I can't see anything on CP or fabcats to quote!

as far i kow they have to be between 6-8 weeks.they are nearly 7 so enough to go to new home.i'm not stupid and i've checked before i've put this advert on internet.i have 5 cats and i have pretty big knowledge about them!

Anyone?