CP introducing adoption fee from October 1st

[Mark]

It does sound quite demanding on volunteers to be stuck sorting out reams of paperwork. Having said that, the charities commission audits are quite intense and I know all the homing forms etc have to be accounted for.

[Desley (booktigger)]

That is going to be an absolute nightmare, if all GiftAid needs re-compensating, and will be interesting to see how that is interpreted by the public, I would be a bit miffed if the government had to be paid back so that VAT could be claimed instead.

[Kirst]

Sounds to me like a very bad Idea - the general feeling on here seems to be that it will involve a lot more paperwork for the volunteers , and it may well put of people considering adopting a cat. If people are asked to donate I think they are a lot more willing and generous than if they are 'charged.'

[Ann Clarke (Tabby cat)]

We already do Gift Aid but CP HQ have asked us to get all our invoices together from 2006 onwards so they can reclaim backdated VAT, that's the bit I'm not looking forward to  They can only backdate the VAT claim by 4 years. It also means we have to repay any gift aid from that period as we can't have both so the whole thing is horribly complicated 

[Desley (booktigger)]

Ann, you can go back 6 years with Gift Aid.

[Canterbury_cats (Sharon)]

Seeing as i just spent the last month doing VAT returns i would not wish it on anyone!! I had a look through the paperwork yesterday and can see a lot of finance volunteers giving up.. Its a lot to ask them.. and to get all that paperwork and keep it up to date and get it all back from fosterers, vets etc, etc... its not easy at the moment and i can imagine it will be harder later on..

Other then informing all the homecheck peeps and of course changing PR and publicity, and Website.. Really all rehoming can do is reinforce the message.. but its the welfare and fosterers that actually see the cats and kittens go off to new homes and the extra burden of making sure that people do pay up .

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I believe that VAT is a labour intensive thing to claim back and know that when I was trading, I could opt to do it but most of us did not bother cos their was enough papewr work to do although the amount of VAT that goes out, when one starts counting is horrible.

[Ann Clarke (Tabby cat)]

I've only skimmed through the info so far but there are a lot of questions to be answered around this I think. It does say they have been in a lot of negotiations with HMRC so presumably they have got agreement on what is covered  . I know from doing the treasurer role for a year while we didn't have one that we pay a huge amount of VAT on vets bills, food etc and it seems to be that which CP are now going to reclaim but how it works, well, who knows  .

Thankfully we do still have some flexibility so we can vary or waive the fee if we want to.

It does seem very complicated though, more paperwork for us and I'm not looking forward to sorting out 4 years worth of invoices so they can claim the money back  No wonder I refer to my CP work as my second job 

I have to say though that a lot of other rescues do have a set adoption fee and it may make it more straightforward for our Homing Officer rather than having to skirt round the donation issue, strictly speaking we aren't even allowed to ask for a donation so you have to drop in lots of info about costs etc.

We shall see 

[Liz]

All ours or the majority came from place and they were glad to see the back of them - its the feral crew here - we have made donations for every last one including those that we trapped here - that way our old Branch have always got the gift aid and a nice bung from us to - we have several forever fosters at our expense as they had no where else to go it was us or the injection in several cases.

The Clan aren't insured and we have had some large bills - well in to 4 fogures for the accident prone ones and have paid every bill in full - our vets like us a lot!  I can't get a big enough discount on the cats and gave up paying £32.00 per month each for the dogs.

I think that this may put a lot of folks off and make them seek out cats from other places or not bother with neutering afterall get a couple of kittens and then make your money back by breeding from them - cynical I know but it will happen as they are now being "sold" instead of a donation being made will make it harder to keep up with the paperwork to and still fit in the other parts of folks lives

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

To be honest many people will view this as a move toward selling animals. Legally it is just that. 

If they call it an adoption "fee" rather than a "donation", will that affect the giftaid side of things?

You can't claim gift add on an adoption fee as it's not a gift, it's a charge.

That's what I thought would be the case, I feel they will be losing the giftaid benefit.  Why can't they call it an adoption donation?

Lesley, the trouble is I don't think HQ have either been looking at the right legislation here or interrupted it the wrong way.  The whole thing seats around their desire to reclaim VAT on expenses (vet bill etc.) acquired in preparing an animal for sale in the same way you would incur expenses while renovating an old car for sale. Except rescues animals fall outside VAT the scheme and are zero rated. There is nothing to stop them 'giving away' cats to new owners in return for a suggested donation amount (which they can claim gift aid from). It might not stay like that for long but for now you can have a double dip into the taxman's wallet providing you fill in the right paperwork. 

I have to say a lot of people won't understand the way HQ are presenting it. And I'm not sure HQ understand it themselves.  They say in the bumpf that 'it will put the charity in a firm footing with the law'... well what law?  I'm the sort of girl who wants Acts or Parliament quoted to support an issue this important but alas most HQ edicts treat the reader like they belong in an Stage 3 English SATS group. 

My quibble is not whether a person who questions an adoption fee is a better or worse owner than one who doesn't, it's just that being one of those out there who run a limited company and regularly has to complete VAT paperwork for business, is that by switching to an adoption fee in preference of a donation,  not only do we fall subject to the Sale of Goods Act, the Trading Standards Act and Consumer Services Act, HQ will probably have to employ about 2-3 further trainee accountants and solicitors to make sure the group is complying with these laws. As I said before... more pen pushers.  I'm really not convinced the trouble is worth it. 

[Millys Mum]

What i call the essentials arent covered by insurance, and often those that quibble arent the type to insure either 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I think there is another view of this and thinking of myself particularily..............when Kocka went to the Bridge I was on a small pension cos not old enough to retire but not able to work.

I couldnt drive and to do anything cost a lot of money and had/still have huge debts.

Kocka had to go to Vets Now, her own vet and the cost to me was enormous but within 24 hours I knew I could live without having a cat.

I wanted a pair cos didnt want to end up with none again and it was wonderful  Cp who I emailed on that terribly Sunday and within two days I had seen Misa and Sasa, I expected to pay a donation but could not afford much, cos of insurance to set up, food to get etc etc.

The lady who home checked me and took me to see the cats had also recently lost a cat and understood how upset I was but also knew the cost that I was involved with before it dawned on me and I did pay the donation that was asked for but Sasa was given to me, cos she was regarded as unhomeable and they just wanted her off their books really.

If I had been say forced into spending a lot on each cat, they probably would not be here now because I could not afford it at that time.

Also of course I was not aware as many arent,how miuch cat rescue costs and what goes into it and thought possibly as many, that CP got loads of money from donations on a monthly or yearly basis.

Niaive definately, but eternally thankful to that lady who allowed me to regain my life with Sasa and Misa,,,,,,,,,,,and of course I know so much more now after Cat Chat and Purrrs,,,,,,but at that time I was having probs looking after me financially but knew how valuable and necessary insurance was due to Kocka. I cannot even think what may have happened to me but for this lovely lady,

[Millys Mum]

If somebody wont pay 50 or 60 for a rescue cat that is neutered, chipped, blood tested and vaccinated then it makes me wonder if they are a) going to bother doing it themselves and if they are then why quibble as it would cost more than that... or b) they expect the pdsa or other vets service to pay for it.

I think set donations are a good thing as it sorts some of the wheat from the chaff, obviously not everyone paying for an animal will value them (look at how many peds end up dumped or abandoned) but i think it makes a start

Branch wise it must be a good thing to know that x amount will come in from each homing?

[Mark]

If they call it an adoption "fee" rather than a "donation", will that affect the giftaid side of things?

You can't claim gift add on an adoption fee as it's not a gift, it's a charge.

That's what I thought would be the case, I feel they will be losing the giftaid benefit.  Why can't they call it an adoption donation?

I suppose by specifying an amount, it can't be regarded as a donation? 

[LesleyW]

If they call it an adoption "fee" rather than a "donation", will that affect the giftaid side of things?

You can't claim gift add on an adoption fee as it's not a gift, it's a charge.

That's what I thought would be the case, I feel they will be losing the giftaid benefit.  Why can't they call it an adoption donation?

[Mark]

I think it's a good thing, anyone who complains about having to pay a fee for their cat seems to me like the kind of person who wouldn't get insurance or wouldn't be able to fork out large vet bills should anything happen. You shouldn't be getting a rescue cat purely because it's free or cheap, you should be getting one because it's a nice thing to do and because you're an animal lover and you want to give an animal a second chance, and if you find a cat you fall in love with then it won't matter how much the adoption fee is. If you can't afford to pay for the cat, how will you afford to pay to keep it?

Exactly.

[Janeyk]

I think it's a good thing, anyone who complains about having to pay a fee for their cat seems to me like the kind of person who wouldn't get insurance or wouldn't be able to fork out large vet bills should anything happen. You shouldn't be getting a rescue cat purely because it's free or cheap, you should be getting one because it's a nice thing to do and because you're an animal lover and you want to give an animal a second chance, and if you find a cat you fall in love with then it won't matter how much the adoption fee is. If you can't afford to pay for the cat, how will you afford to pay to keep it?

I agree Claire

[Claire_smc]

I think it's a good thing, anyone who complains about having to pay a fee for their cat seems to me like the kind of person who wouldn't get insurance or wouldn't be able to fork out large vet bills should anything happen. You shouldn't be getting a rescue cat purely because it's free or cheap, you should be getting one because it's a nice thing to do and because you're an animal lover and you want to give an animal a second chance, and if you find a cat you fall in love with then it won't matter how much the adoption fee is. If you can't afford to pay for the cat, how will you afford to pay to keep it?

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

If they call it an adoption "fee" rather than a "donation", will that affect the giftaid side of things?

You can't claim gift add on an adoption fee as it's not a gift, it's a charge.

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

OH and I have been mulling over the paperwork and comparing it to HMRC guidelines and also called the VAT help desk for clarification on a few issues and this is our official response....

HQ have made it over complicated. Rescue animals are Zero rated for VAT purposes so adoption fees have no VAT componant. Therefore... why charge an adoption fee in favour of a voluntary donation?  If it aint broke, why fix it? 

Of course... the only reason would be to create MORE paperwork and MORE employment for HQ pen pushers. Silly I didn't jump to that conclusion in the first place. 

[Mark]

I suppose the fee does prevent the ones who think handing over £5 is generous 

It says there is some flexibility and it is dependent on the area. It also says in extremely rare circumstances, the fee can be waived - I supposed this might apply to cats with health issues? - then again. people who are likely to take on cats with issues are likely to be the type than would donate anyway - as opposed to the types who want to acquire a kitten - I always think of them as just wanting a cute fluffy object rather than being true animal lovers.

[Desley (booktigger)]

While you will always get people who will grumble, we haven't had that many people take issue with our donation fee, but then it is still a fraction of what it would cost if they did everything themselves. Will be interesting to see how it goes.

[Mark]

I think there are quite a few things it will affect, including the sale of goods act. They have done the sums and think they will be better off doing it this way (by £1million). I suppose worse-case, they could always revert back to donations I suppose. I'm not sure how it will affect the charity status etc.

[LesleyW]

If they call it an adoption "fee" rather than a "donation", will that affect the giftaid side of things?

[Leanne]

I think its a good thing too, but you will always get someone who wants everything for free.

Ours is called an adoption fee too and it varies centre to centre.

[Mark]

Will the fee be paid to the branch they adopted the cat from or will it be paid to CP HQ?

I don't know how that bit works. Hopefully to the branch as they are the ones who have to pay vet bills, food, etc etc.

I think it is a good idea as there are some who think as it is optional, they will take the no donation option. I have even heard of people donating a couple of tins of food for a cat 

It is quite complicated and there are reams of paperwork to read.

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

I think its a very good idea ....

Especially as there as moggie kittens out there for sale at over £100 (even seen £150 and £200)

[Dawn F]

anyone looking in to getting a pet knows they cost money - I really don't think it's unreasonable to ask for money for the pet - its only reimbursement for money that would have been spent - I know my friend who got her two from pet shops spent about £75 on each of them

[harlequin]

Hmmm, I guess any money that goes to help more kitties in need can't be a bad thing, although I suppose it may put one or two people off if they feel pressured into paying a fee rather than an optional donation. Will the fee be paid to the branch they adopted the cat from or will it be paid to CP HQ? As I imagine that will make a big difference to how potential adopters feel about it.

[Mark]

Something came in the post today.

I suppose it is a good idea as I'm sure there are a number of people that give nothing. I don't know if this would be a dealbreaker if people wanted to adopt. There is a lot of reading to do and I have only scanned it. I can't see a figure on there but it comes into force from 1st October. I can't see anything that says it's confidential info, so...

It says we are to start referring to adoption fee rather than donation when we do homechecks.