Never use supermarket flea products!

[paddypaws]

I stopped using Frontline as it did not seem to be effective any more, and I think a lot of people have had a similar issue with it.
If your cat is registered with the vet and has been seen recently, then most vets will be happy to sell the product without a consultation. The vet products are not cheap, but I only use them as needed once or twice a year, and then use another vet product ( RIP, Indorex etc ) to spray the whole house once a year.

[snarf]

 :shy:Where is the best place to get flea/worming products ... the vests? is it expensive

The vets is one option but they can have quite a mark up on products. Frontline is available in pharmacys but i think alot of people here use the internet for flea/wom products - if you go to the link tab above, there are sponsered links to VetUK, frontline and drontal can be brought straight away. stronghold, milbemax,advantage are prescription only so you have to get your vet to write you a prescription (mine charge for this and charge enough for it to actually be cheaper to buy from them  ) vet uk- 17.45 for 6 normal frontline spot-ons, 1.50 for 1 drontal tablet- so about 40 squid a year 

[bunglycat]

I use Advantage on all my cats and have done for a good few years without any problems - hope this is still okay - its from the vets and only on prescription i think .

[Neos friend]

Don't forget to report to your vet (if that is where purchased from) and make sure he or she is reporting it on one of those forms we mentioned earlier in the thread. 

I did get it from the local supermarket (morrisons) but I've seen it sold in pet shops... small local ones and the chain store types.
but I will report it... if pets are being effected then they need to know about it!

thanks

[madasacatter]

Don't forget to report to your vet (if that is where purchased from) and make sure he or she is reporting it on one of those forms we mentioned earlier in the thread. 

[Neos friend]

I think my Neo has been affected by the Bob Martin tick & flea drops 

I asked about a sore on my cat's neck (3/4 days after using the drops) and they reckon it's to do with this product.
she's had it before (maybe just the flea one rather than flea AND tick but can't remember now) and it was fine but I noticed in the last couple of days that she had a small patch of fur that looked stuck down... couldn't separate the hairs but I figured she might have wiped her self against something (I'm not sure what... I do crafts stuff but I keep all bottles of glue/latex etc in a cupboard which she can't open - and it has strong hinges that automatically close the doors)
but I noticed a few hours ago that the area had gone all red and sore... can't tell if it bled or not ... she didn't mind me touching it so I guess it's not painful (I hope it wont become so).
it looks horrible and did a panic wondering if I should take her to the vets... but I will keep a close eye on it - I took photo's and if it seems to look a little worse then she'll have to be carted off to the vets.

I've just had another look and it's not as red (hoorah  ) but still a little 'wet' sheen to the skin - she might have had a lick perhaps? she's sat under my chair so I've not seen what she's been doing.

 :shy:Where is the best place to get flea/worming products ... the vests? is it expensive (I've not had pets for many years... since I was a kid and obviously I didn't take them to the vets or deal with this sort of thing... I've had guinea pigs who did have a phases of mites! poor things but that cleared up after jabs at the vets... but they don't need worming/flea products and never had any reactions to this sort of thing)

I also didn't realise that bob martin and similar were classed as 'supermarket' flea products... I thought supermarket products meant their own brand which is why I went for brand that I've heard before.

I hope this is a rare occurrence for people's pets!!!

 

[Millys Mum]

Gooey reacted to the last stronghold i applied, having been ok before that  He got a burn 
Have seen burn reactions from all of the 3 main spot on products, normally on white cats but there was a black one too 

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Paddypaws, most people round here wish I would shut up. 

These threads will still be here years from now and many people stumble across Purrs looking for advice or doing research via Google. So I always try to be specific and clear in these kinds of replies. 'Cos you never know what help/harm our words can create for future generations.   

[paddypaws]

Dear Julie,
Thank you SO much for that long patient reply. I read the sad, sad story of Spike and what he went through. Terrible.
I have always tried to minimise the chemicals that I use on the cats and I suppose this story just confirms my concerns. I think my plan of attack will be to lock the cats out for the day and spray the house as a preventative....and only dose the cats if I see them scratching. I also bought a product called Skoosh last year which is non-toxic so I feel safer using that than harsh chemicals.

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Well, Paddypaws... 

A) I've never seen or heard of any reaction to Frontline
B) I've never seen or heard of any reaction to Stronghold
C) Reactions to Advocate are extremely rare and always show as hair loss, skin allergy and localised problems in and around the application site. Here is a link to Spike's story but beware before you read, it did not end well for poor Spike. http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,27127.200.html 

What you described in your puss does sound like a bit poisoning but it doesn't fit with any problems I've seen with vet products except.... very occasional one cat will groom itself or its friend and end up swallowing a small amount of the product. If a cat were to swallow Advocate, or any other product, it's bound to make them yak.  Never heard of any fatalities from accidentally licking a spot on product though.  I suppose if you were very concerned them grooming each other you could ask the vet for a buster collar for use until the product has properly dispersed. 

At the end of the day fleas kill hundreds more cats and kittens each year than flea treatments ever will. So please treat your cats and please feel safe using vet products once some basic precautions are in place. They deserve to enjoy the summer without those pesky fleas.  I mainly use Stronghold and I've treated hundreds of rescue cats and kittens with it and the only problems I've had is a puked up meal if one of them accidentally licks it off the other. 

Hope that helps. 

[paddypaws]

Ok, now I am a little worried...and confused.
I know not to use supermarket flea products, and even though one of my gang can suffer from FAD i have to say I have never routinely used even the vet products. However, last summer was a bit of an itchy one, and I was planning to dose the gang with Advocate sometime soon to hopefully ward off another summer flea attack. Now I am re-thinking. Hmm. This has also reminded me of an incident a couple of years ago when one of my boys had a dramatic collapse. The vet thought he was poisoned, possibly with anti-freeze. I did mention that I had dosed him with flea treatment ( dispensed by the vet!! ) just the day before. Vet re-assured me that it was not the flea treatment causing the poisoning. The cat recovered well but I have to say I have always hesitated to dose him since.

[Mark]

I found quite an informative site yesterday http://www.newmanveterinary.com/Fleas.html

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Depends what they're mixing it with, doesn't it? Lots of chemicals are relatively harmless unit mixed in compounds with other things.  And also in what concentration. 

Iv not heard of advocate causing toxic issues, topical reactions but not death.

We had someone on this board who lost a cat from Advocate last year. It started as a topical reaction and spread and spread. I believe there was nerve damage as well. 

I've no heard back from the vet about whether she was able to obtain the packaging. Maybe the owner was too distressed... after all she probably feels responsible. 

[Millys Mum]

Frontline is fipronil which again isnt known for causing toxic/death reaction

[Mark]

I still think they have changed the formula of the basic cat one. The double action one is the same as frontline.

[Millys Mum]

Iv not heard of advocate causing toxic issues, topical reactions but not death. Cetain breeds of dogs can have issues with it but thats all the bad iv heard of and its a very popular product.

Do you know what strength is in the BM version?

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

We had an email today.  CP HQ vet department had written to BM and got not much joy back and all the expected flannel. All the professionals are convinced the problem lays with either mistaken, accidental or deliberate treatment of cats with the dog product. The dog product is known to be fatal on cats. 

BUT... apparantly one of the active ingredients of the current CAT version of BM is Imidacloprid... this is also used in Advocate.  Dum, dum, dum! 

So... I am deducing that Imidacloprid is the culprit that is killing our cats. 

[Yvonne]

So sorry to hear this but what about Advocate?

[Mark]

I am confused about this. They say their basic one contains Neem which is supposedly safe (and possibly ineffective) herbal treatment. I wonder if they have changed the formula for the cat one and the lady just picked up old stock - that or she picked up the dog one. (I wonder how many people pick up a dog one thinking it will treat 2 cats) To make matters more confusing, Bob Martin also make another flea product called dual-action, which has a different active ingredient and says it is for cats AND small dogs. The active ingredient in Frontline, Advantage etc. I know VetUK sell it as a cheaper alternative to Frontline.


ETA - I really think they must have changed the formula. I saw a review of the product dated November 2009 and it said Watchdog are doing a report - However, if they have changed the formula, they will get off scot-free.

[madasacatter]

I was looking at adverse reactions possibly due to vaccination having been trying to help another member on here, and strangely enough yesterday I was on an alternative vet site and it mentioned suspected adverse reaction and that the vet in charge of the case should report anything he or she was suspicious of causing or not actually being effective.

I have just found this now, and you need to scroll past the human bit to get to the animal bit:-

http://www.vmd.gov.uk/General/Adverse/mal252.pdf

[puggy1975 Zoe]

RIP little one. so so so sad

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

UPDATE!

I've just found this very interesting and very useful linkypoo. 

http://www.vmd.gov.uk/General/Adverse/current.htm

Please report any illnesses or deaths attributed to ANY supermarket product to DEFRA's Adverse Reactions department. The link contains another link to the appropriate incident report form (scroll down from 'human' incident form to 'animal' incident form.  ) DEFRA are actively collating information on these products and problems that arise. DEFRA is a Government organisation and not associated with any commercial enterprise so therefore have no vested interest but still carry a lot of clout.

Please spread this link around and also make your vets aware. Whatever the cause of this situation (correct product or mistaken application of the wrong product) one thing is for sure.... it is NOT imagination and there are too many reports for it to be a blip. 

[JackSpratt]

Poor thing. RIP, Little One.

[Millys Mum]

The poor lady must be devastated 
RIP little one

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Puss was PTS this afternoon, MM. 

[Millys Mum]

So sad, is there any news on the ladies cat julie?
Then you get cases like that poor little chap recently who reacted to his normal vet sold treatment 

[Mark]

I think it depends which one is used. They also make one called "Double action" for cats and dogs - it contains
"Active Ingredient: Imidacloprid 40 mg per 0.4 ml"

http://hubpages.com/hub/Advantage-Imidacloprid--Flea-Treatment-Pet-Poisoning-and-Death This has the same ingredient.

[Mark]

Is Bob Martin using Neem a recent thing? - I'm sure it never used to be the ingredient. Is it possible the woman yesterday used old stock?

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

I have spent the afternoon reading research papers. Boring!

CP HQ vet department say they've been trying to find concrete proof that it's the CAT version which is responsible and not owner applying the DOG version by mistake. It's well know the dog version is lethal to cats as it contain Permetherin. But the cat version contain Neem and there are no reports of problems with Neem. But we need proof it definitely is the CAT version killing cats.

 Doesn't mean to say that proof can't be found though. 

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

I'm sure theres a website/help group somewhere with loads of terrible stories
I've gotta go back to work but maybe someone wants to try and find it

[Mark]

There are some reviews here http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/pets-accessories/bob-martin-flea-products/reviews/

This is one of them. written in August 08

 "My kittens have recently suffered a cruel death because of bob martin. I have contacted TRADING STANDARDS. I have been advised they will start an enquirey but need more complaints to make the enquirey go quicker. PLEASE. PLEASE make your voice count & try and get justice for these poor animals. Call 0845 404 0506 and make your complaint. Dont let Bob Martin get away with this. Thank You"

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

But between us ...which product was used Julie ?

BM 

 

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

surely if this is happening often the rcvs should be getting involved

I don't think the RCVS's remit actually rates animal welfare or pet care products high up on the agenda to be honest. When you think of it you don't hear the BMA campaigning against products we know to be misleading and harmful.   I'd think Trading Standards is more the authority to deal with it.... but then it takes someone to complain and for there to be scientific concrete proof these products are a direct cause and huge companies can afford big lawyers.  

I'm afraid what this needs is a class action and someone to champion it. It needs hundreds of cases to group together and the organisation to link all these bereaved owners is not there.  

[Mark]

And F.anny's your aunt.

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

But between us ...which product was used Julie ?

BM 

[Dawn F]

surely if this is happening often the rcvs should be getting involved

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

But between us ...which product was used Julie ?

[Mark]

I think it should be on CP main website. They don't have to name brands - I know they could end up in court that way - but they could just say that brands sold in supermarkets are at best ineffective and at worse, lethal  - in fact, CP could probably make a bomb having a VetUK or similar link on the main site.

[Canterbury_cats (Sharon)]

Lottie
Would you mind sending me the document you have or give out when rehoming kittens? All our HC people do have some knowledge of this to pass on but if there was something that can be modified that i an let them know about as well. We do have an article on our website about this... Would save reinventing the wheel and be much appreciated!

[JackSpratt]

Sending all the vibes to the poor little cat. When will they be taken off the market?