Topic: Excess Urinating/Excess Drinking/High Red Cell Count (Read 8491 times)

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #27 on:** April 06, 2007, 10:05:00 AM »

Good luck for the re-test in 3 weeks - thyroid probs can mask kidney issues, so you may find a different result when her thyroid levels come down. I suppose it could make her drink more, as they have a racing pulse - and obviously if she drinks more, she will wee more. And as you know, thyroid probs can make them more vocal.

Lizzie · « **Reply #26 on:** April 05, 2007, 22:39:28 PM »

Got Min's blood test results back today - all kidney, liver and other tests were surprisingly normal apart from the thyroid test - normal count for a cat is apparently 19-62 and Min's count is 64 so she's borderline but vet is going to recheck blood in 3 weeks before deciding on medication as he feels it would do Min more harm than good at the moment. It's her T3 level that's raised but vet reckons the T4 may start to rise as well (gets very complicated for me to understand) but I really trust this new vet as he is so positive about elderly cats.

I still can't understand about the excess drinking and urinating but vet says it's maybe just an 'old age' behavioural habit that Min has got into.

Thanks for the advice re the insurance policies - I'll check them out next week. I've never had a cat with thyroid problems so I'll need to swot up on the subject! Min's purrs have been getting louder and louder recently - I wonder if that is connected to thyroid issues - I've heard that thyroid cats can wail a lot - Min's always been vocal in the sense that she chats away to herself. Anyway, must go as being head butted by Min to get off of the computer and attend to her. Thanks again. Lizzie. x

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #25 on:** April 03, 2007, 22:09:19 PM »

Am so glad she was better at the second vet, and that he was more positive. I have had a couple of cats with liver probs, thinking about it, Snowy did drink more than Ginger, but none of the vets we saw (vet had a lot of locums at the time, so it was a different one each time!!) said it was a side effect of it - but reading about liver issues now, I think most of those vets dismissed a lot of things.
It is a shame you hadn't mentioned insurance before, I have insured 5 cats aged 10-14.5 with Sainsbury's, they have accepted them all, and I now get them insured before their first blood tests, just in case.
Good luck with the results.

Tiggy's Mum · « **Reply #24 on:** April 03, 2007, 21:45:33 PM »

Good to hear that the vet visit went well and Min behaved herself! If she is hyperthyroid like the vet said that really isn't as bad as you may think - Tiggy was also hyperthyroid and was stable for over 4 years. Don't have any experience of liver issues (one of the few things Tiggy avoided!) but I'm sure there are others on here who do if that's what the diagnosis turns out to be.

On the insurance issue, M & S will insure cats of any age. Pre existing conditions are, of course, excluded but I got a quote for Tiggy at the age of 18 (just out of interest as there was not a lot else to go wrong!) and it was something like £11 a month with NO excess. It didn't even ask what conditions she already had it just said that anything already diagnosed or being treated was excluded. If the test results come back negative as they did at your last vet you could insure her now and then be covered for any future illness or injury although hopefully there won't be any!

Please let us know what the results come back as tomorrow, keeping everything crossed for her. It's good that you've found a vet that is positive about treating elderly cats as that is half the battle.

Lizzie · « **Reply #23 on:** April 03, 2007, 21:08:55 PM »

Min went to her new vet today - the young vet was absolutely brilliant with her so she behaved herself very well, no lashing out, growling or biting, she definitely takes better to male vets than females.

Min's had another set of blood tests taken to include liver, thyroid, FELV/FIV and kidneys - vet has a suspicion that her liver is the problem rather than her kidneys but he's also concerned re her thyroid as he, like me, thought he felt a lump under her chin. He couldn't feel any lumps or bumps around her belly because of her girth. I didn't know that liver problems can cause excessive drinking and can be mistaken for kidney problems, apparently.

Vet was very positive about Min and explained to me that kidney and thyroid problems can be dealt with by medication so not to feel that it's the end of the road for Min yet. His main concern is that there may be something going on with the liver (may be a tumour at her age) but bloods will highlight if this may be the case. He actually praised me for Min being in such good condition for her age - he thought her teeth were excellent (although with a wee bit tartar) and her eyes very good which was good news for me as previous vet's visits have always incurred me getting a row for Min's weight - this vet isn't concerned with her weight as it's more a baggy tummy situation that's never going to go away so no point in worrying about it at Min's age (Min was grossly overweight when we rehomed her a few years ago).

I'll get the results of the tests tomorrow night but this vet has helped me feel more positive about Min for the meantime. Nearly fainted at the cost, though - £156! But well worth it for my mate Min. To be honest she has cost us so little moeny vet-wise since we've had her so we can't complain. We were unable to insure her when we rehomed her from death-row as no-one would insure an elderly cat with no history available.

PS - Desley, I did wonder about the anaethestic gel while in the vets but this vet had Min's neck clipped and blood taken in about 10 secs flat and Min didn't budge an inch!

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #22 on:** March 30, 2007, 23:02:34 PM »

Fingers crossed for the app next week. I was very surprised with my two's reactions to bloods this year - the hissy one who isn't nasty but is normally fine at being held had to go back a week later and have the anaesthetic gel, the vicious one who only allows a small amount of handling before snapping accepted that, booster and chip with no fuss!! I had booked her in for the double app to use the gel, but she didn't need it!!

Lizzie · « **Reply #21 on:** March 30, 2007, 22:57:42 PM »

Thanks all for your really good advice and a very special thanks to Helen for your very positive comments about CRF. The anaethestic gel sounds like a great idea - to be honest, I think Min just went beserk as she hates being held down and she doesn't have the best of temperment some times - also it was a lady vet and Min prefers the blokes, I'm afraid.

I've had to change Min's vet's appointment to Tuesday as I can't get time off work until then (does anyone else have this trouble with their boss - "it's only a cat, he says"!!)? Min's ok just now so she'll be fine until Tuesday but last night I noticed a lump under her chin which I initially thought was acne but now I'm not so sure so I'll get that checked out as well.

I'm so pleased that so many of you have taken time to reassure me about Min - it's great knowing that there are so many caring cat owners out there. I'll let you know how Min gets on at her new vets on Tuesday. I tried unsuccessfully to attach a recent pic of Min to this post (didn't work) but got a shock when I looked at it cos she hasn't half aged over the last few months - you never notice your cat's ageing decline when you see her each day. Lizzie x.

Amanda (mad4moggies) · « **Reply #20 on:** March 30, 2007, 19:35:42 PM »

Yes, still the same silly design when it comes to the bottle i`m afraid! I`ve just had a bit of a look but i haven`t had any joy. I`ll let you know if i find anything.

CurlyCatz · « **Reply #19 on:** March 30, 2007, 19:18:27 PM »

yes we occasionally tried the intubeaze spray (are they still piddly 10 mls or so bottes that you never got the last bit out LOL) you are right, didnt think it was that effective over the skin.

If you find out bout the spray let me know for future reference, when they used it on connor they sprayed it then immediately took the blood sample and he didnt even flinch much to my amazement (he's a woosy 6 year old !)

Amanda (mad4moggies) · « **Reply #18 on:** March 30, 2007, 19:13:28 PM »

Lynn, we had a vet recently that was using the Intubeaze spray on the skin before taking blood or inserting an iv catheter. It`s lignocaine spray as you probably know but i don`t think it worked as quickly as she thought! I`ll have a look into the spray you are talking about, it sounds really good.

CurlyCatz · « **Reply #17 on:** March 30, 2007, 07:55:22 AM »

amanda if you use the gel stuff you should have a finding out mission into the spray that they are using on kids..it was so instant..granted being an aerosol might make some cats freak but some would be ok with it and could be useful for dogs and other things in practice..I gathered from the way the paed / nurse was discussing it the spray must be quite a new thing they are using, atelast in aberdeen childrens hospital anyway.

Amanda (mad4moggies) · « **Reply #16 on:** March 29, 2007, 22:48:03 PM »

The only one i know of that is a cream is called Emla cream and is used in humans. It`s just a shame about the amount of time it takes to work!

CurlyCatz · « **Reply #15 on:** March 29, 2007, 16:23:22 PM »

i wouldnt be suprised if it is human preparation (not that it makes any difference)

a good idea though.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #14 on:** March 29, 2007, 10:22:30 AM »

Have only had to have it used on one of mine Lynn, but Molly has had it for both her blood tests now - the others have all been fine at having blood taken without it!! I think it takes about 10-20 mins to work before using it - but the vet/vet nurse has to use a glove to apply it on, and she had to wipe it off afterwards, and I had to keep my hands away, so it must work on humans too!!

CurlyCatz · « **Reply #13 on:** March 29, 2007, 09:34:03 AM »

Desley are you aware if this is common practice now (the gel) or just your vets ? I havent experienced it being used in my time.

when my son had blood tests the other month they used a spray and the paed & nurse discussed how impressed they are with it compared to the gel which needs to have cling film over it to allow it to absorb into skin for 1 -2 hours before the kids gets the bloods taken but the spray worked immediately..connor never felt the needle going in

I dont know if there is now a veterinary formulation gel tho ?

tammy · « **Reply #12 on:** March 29, 2007, 08:20:20 AM »

I always have to have my cat sedated for blood as nothing else will keep her still enough for long enough.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #11 on:** March 29, 2007, 07:58:02 AM »

lizzie - it might be a good idea to ask if they will put an anaesthetic gel on her neck before taking futher bloods, one of mine has to have that (and surprisingly, she isn't the vicious one!!). Can you ring your vets and ask for more clarification as to waht they did test for?

Tiggy's Mum · « **Reply #10 on:** March 29, 2007, 00:24:14 AM »

Having had experience of a cat with CRF I can say with all honesty that Tiggy had a fantastic quality of life with CRF. She had to have daily tablets (fortekor) but they were palatable and I always hid them in yummy treats (have lots of tablet treat hiding tips if you need them). It can also be diet controlled in the early stages, Tiggy wouldn't eat the prescription foods so I fed her 'normal' cat food with a special powder than prevented her body from absorbing the phosphorous in the food. A diet for a CRF cat would ideally be lower in protein and phosphorous with the higher quality the protein the better.

She had to have regular blood tests (3 - 6 months) but I always went for 3 monthly so I could pick up any changes. Her treatment was successful in that at every blood test she had her results improved. As I said in my previous post she had 20 months after being diagnosed with CRF at 17 years of age and it was not the CRF that took her.

Most vets in the UK do not seem to be up to speed with CRF and often paint a very negative picture, CRF is a progressive condition but I always looked at it that life itself is terminal so while the CRF may one day have taken her from me there were many other things that could also take her and sadly in the end did. My main thing was that she didn't suffer and although I had to make the heart breaking decision to let her go in the end I know she didn't suffer through the CRF.

Keep us posted on how Min is doing, oh and we also like pics on here too

Lizzie · « **Reply #9 on:** March 28, 2007, 22:45:29 PM »

Thanks all, really appreciate your help. Min went beserk in the vets as they were taking blood from her neck (I was sent out of the room) so I was probably a bit stressed that I never asked further questions when they took blood. It's putting me off asking for another blood test to be taken so I'll have a chat with the new vet on Friday. Very interesting point re the thyroid so I'll keep it in mind.

If Min IS diagnosed with CRF - is this diet controlled or would she have to go on medication? Do cats suffer a lot when they have this? I realy don't want to put her through pain or invasive tests etc. at her age.

She's been ok today (apart from the excess urine), she doesn't seem constipated and was running around doing cartwheels and handstands earlier which gives me some hope that she's not too bad (she can be a bit of a drama queen sometimes)!

Thanks again.

Amanda (mad4moggies) · « **Reply #8 on:** March 28, 2007, 19:58:01 PM »

Hi Lizzie,

As the others have said it does sound like she has similar symptoms to those found with CRF. Also, did the vet do a blood test to check her thyroid? I think it might be a good idea as i have seen a few cats before that are diagnosed with hyperthyroidism and have a higher than normal red blood cell count. It is thought that this occurs sometimes because as the whole metabolism is faster due to the increased thyroid levels this also stimulates the bone marrow to produce more than usual.

CurlyCatz · « **Reply #7 on:** March 28, 2007, 10:12:17 AM »

like the others have said it sounds suspiciously like crf to me, she's drinking so much because she is losing too much urine and thats because her kidneys cant concetrate her urine.

you are quite within your rights to ask for a copy or for them to tell you over the phone and you to pen down ALL the blood test results..I cant imagine for the life of me that they wouldnt have done biochemisty bloods when they were doing the haematology but you never know !! also very rarely mistakes can happen so it may well be worth having a basic profile repeated. as desley says a separate thryroid test would also be useful.

tammy · « **Reply #6 on:** March 28, 2007, 08:12:32 AM »

hello and

Ask for liver tests as problems with liver can cause excess drinking and urinating. If they cant feel anything whilst she is awake as she is large, it may be worth doing it under sedation-My cat is a fatty and when the vet had a feel of her when awake he said nothing felt wrong. Yet 2 days later another vet ahd a feel inder sedation and as muscles were very relaxed she felt loads of fecal matter which suggested real bad constipation-thats been sorted now.

Good luck

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #5 on:** March 28, 2007, 07:33:49 AM »

Good luck in getting a second opinion - do you know if they did a full blood test? did it include a thryoid test (not normally included in the standard tests)? IT does sound like kidney issues, which is odd if the vet said it shows they are fine, and he can't think of any other explanation for a high red cell count, if she obviously has symptoms. The vet could be right about the dehydration though, if she is weeing a lot as well as drinking a lot, she may not be able to keep enough in her body to keep her hydrated. The fact that it is strong smelling is odd too, but you say that tested OK?

Tiggy's Mum · « **Reply #4 on:** March 28, 2007, 00:57:19 AM »

I'm sure she will be fine while you're on holiday but I know what you mean - it's so hard to leave them. Min has a head start on whatever may be causing her symptoms as she has such a pro-active owner. Like I said, I'm sure you'll have lots more input from others on here but you are doing the best thing by going for a second opinion if you're not happy.

Lizzie · « **Reply #3 on:** March 28, 2007, 00:50:06 AM »

Thanks so much Helen for your advice and very useful links - symptoms are quite similar to Min's that it may be worth a second opinion.

I'm so sorry about your very sad and recent loss of Tiggy - I also lost my last old cat to cancer aged 18.

I'll take Min to the new vet this week as I'm really not happy about her health - I'm a bit stressed out cos we're going on holiday in a fortnight and I'll worry about her the whole week (although she'll be well looked after when we're away).

Lizzie.

Tiggy's Mum · « **Reply #2 on:** March 28, 2007, 00:32:56 AM »

Hi Lizzie and

to Purrs

I think you have done the right thing by arranging for a second opinion, the symptoms you describe would suggest a problem with the kidneys to me - CRF. Here's a few links from what I call the CRF bible www.felinecrf.org Obviously you don't want to overwhelm yourself by researching it immensely at this stage as you don't have a diagnosis but it's a fantastic resource.

Do you have the actual results of the blood tests? ie numbers. There are some really knowledgable people on here who may be able to interpret them better than you or I. As far as I am aware a high Red Blood Cell count can be indicative of dehydration which a cat with CRF would undoubtedly be.

http://www.felinecrf.org/symptoms.htm#body_fluid_regulation - also explains about why cats with CRF are dehydrated despite drinking 'excessively'.

http://www.felinecrf.org/just_diagnosed.htm#weakness

http://www.felinecrf.org/index.htm

If your cat (what's her name by the way) does have CRF it really need not be the end of the world. My cat Tiggy was diagnosed at the age of 17, I lost her recently 20 months after diagnosis. It was not the CRF that took her in the end as it was extremely well managed but she had cancer

I'm sure you'll have lots of other replies soon, perhaps tomorrow now as we tend to nod off around this time! Please keep us updated on what happens.

Lizzie · « **Reply #1 on:** March 28, 2007, 00:17:11 AM »

Hi there, can anyone give me some advice re my 16yr old female cat? She's been drinking loads of water and urinating excessively in her litter tray. Litter tray is absolutely saturated after 2 days. Has been twice to vet who did blood test and confirmed that she has a high red cell blood count which can denote dehydration (but she's drinking loads and always has access to plenty water)? Vet couldn't feel any lumps or bumps due to cat being a fatty and vet didn't seem to think there was much of a problem. It's not cystitis, she's not constantly going in or out of the litter tray, it's just when she pees it seem like a hell of a lot of urine coming out of her. And it's very stong smelling. I asked the vet if it could be the starting signs of kidney failure but vet said blood tests showed kidneys were fine - only thing showing was this high red cell count. The vet thought she also had a 'bit of a wobble on her back legs'. I know my cat well and I know that something's not right. I've registered her with another vet and will make an appointment for later in the week. Cat seems happy enough, doesn't seem in pain and seems to be eating ok but sleeping more than usual.

Anyone else out there experienced anything similar? Are there any tests, other than blood tests, that can pick up kidney failure? (Vet also tested her urine - was ok).

She's a oldie who's a bit of a handful and I really don't want to put her through loads of invasive tests/procedures at her time of life. Thanks.

Author Topic: Excess Urinating/Excess Drinking/High Red Cell Count (Read 8491 times)