RIP Sam xx - Corneal Ulcer and vet problems.....Sad News

[clarenmax]

I agree with Mark, if she's not really taking to the renal, feed senior with a binder, the quantity of food eaten is more important, in my opinion anyway, as if they eat less, they will lose weight anyway regardless of what conditions are present.

[Mark]

I have read (and it makes sense) that renal food can cause muscle wastage due to reduced protein. Clapton virtually refuses to eat renal (although I try every day) and has senior or adult food with ipakitin binders in with extra water. Every cat is so different but Clapton seems as well now, if not better than when he was diagnosed 3 years, 4 months ago. If it were me, I would let her enjoy her food - renal food smells so disgusting and I suppose it tastes as horrible. Try senior first as it is lower phosophorus but if all else fails, give her adult food (with binders in either)

[Hippykitty]

Since she's been on a renal diet - recommended by vet - she's deteriorated. She walks as though on a ship in a storm and seems very weak. She's not drinking or weeing as much; don't know if this is the food or infection, though she's still taking synulox. I'm trying a variety of renal food: Hill kd dry, Hills prescription kd pouches, Royal Canin renal. She's not keen on any of them.

I'm getting very concerned as she seems like a cat at the end.

The vet thought the creatinine level could be explained by lack of muscle: she's thin and has been slowly losing weight for a few years (this has been mentioned to the vet and she's had bloods done before, which were ok). If she carries on like this I'll put her back on her old food with the stuff you recommended mixed in.

Am starting to come to terms with losing her. She's not been really happy since Polly died. 

[Desley (booktigger)]

I have only just seen this thread, but you have nothing to feel guilty about, she is a fantastic age. I agree with Gillian about her levels, Urea can be raised with infection, so her kidneys might not be as bad as the vets think, as that creatnine isnt' that high (although it does depend on your vets scale) - Zia's creatnine is higher than that, but her Urea is lower - my vet describes it as renal insufficiency, rather than failure. I am glad she is adapting to her eye removal and taking her meds well.

[Kay and Penny]

anyone who gets a cat beyond 18 years is doing something very right, in my book

[Gillian Harvey]

There's some concern about her kidneys because of the high urea and phosphorous levels; and it's been suggested that she go on a low protein diet. I know there are lots of Purrs members with CRF cats; I would appreciate advise about the cheapest place to buy this: the vets charge a fortune.

Her urea is quite high, but creatinine isnt - so its possible the infection has caused a spike in urea.

I'd stick with her current diet and add phosphorus binders like Clare mentioned - Ipaktine is a powder sprinkled on food http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=657, or there is Renalzin http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2598 . You want to reduce phos levels, but too low protein can cause muscle wastage, and changing her food at this stage probably isnt ideal. Wet food obviously is better than dry as she needs all the moisture she can get.

I'm sure she's going to feel much better without the eye once she's all healed and recovered from the op. 

[clarenmax]

Aw bless her, hope her check-up appointment goes well today, and do not feel guilty Mrs, you're the one who noticed the problem and got her straight to the vets, you could not do any more than that 

Renal food can be a bit hit and miss in terms of what they will eat, with Max the RC dry always went down better than the wet pouches anyway.  If you get senior food that's sometimes a good comprimise as its lower in protein and phospherous, and you can put a binder powder in too (ipakinine?) which can reduce the phospherous even further.

I can't remember the cheapest place now as I used to buy from a mixture of places, but its always pretty expensive to be honest 

[Janeyk]

  Bless her, I think she's doing pretty well for her age and good luck wiht the vet appointment today 

[Dawn F]

glad she is ok, don't feel guilty she is an old lady, without you she wouldn't have reached such a grand age 

[Hippykitty]

Samantha's bloods came back the following day and the vet rang with the results:
urea 35
creatinine 186
phosphorous 2.17
thyroid 52
neutrophils raised (infection)
no anaemia
not diabetic
liver fine

She had the eye removed and was on a drip throughout. She came home at about 5pm and had been on the drip since I took her in at 8.30am. The operating vet (neither the bad nor great one, but a vet who was very green 20 years ago but has improved greatly with experience) said she bled from her eye quite a bit and he'd packed the socket with wadding. She's taking Synulox as there was some concern about healing and infection. So far she seems fine: active and happy. She has a croaky purr which I suspect is from a sore throat where they put the tubing down - I've experienced this after a g.a., even though I don't purr!

She's going back for a check-up tomorrow (thurs).

There's some concern about her kidneys because of the high urea and phosphorous levels; and it's been suggested that she go on a low protein diet. I know there are lots of Purrs members with CRF cats; I would appreciate advise about the cheapest place to buy this: the vets charge a fortune.

Thanks for all the help and concern. She's starting to adapt to lack of depth vision and seems happy now the wound is healing and she's no longer in pain.

I feel that this is my fault, somehow; that I must have neglected her, even though she was whisked to the vet as soon as I saw the problem. Eye infections do seem to be common in neglected cats. I don't neglect my lot: Fred and Vic are pictures of health. Samantha is 18 going on 19. I just feel guilty.

Samantha loves the extra fuss I'm giving her, even though she has a pill shoved down her throat every 12hours!  She was eating them willingly, amongst some munchies, but she's caught on!! 

[Bazsmum]

Good luck for the results HK! 

[clarenmax]

I'm glad the other vet was better 

I think doing bloods is a good idea, at least you know what you are dealing with, then you can see if the surgery is an option.

As Gill has already said though, aneasthetics are much better these days, and as long as Sam is on a drip then this will help.  When Max was due for his dental (which we couldn't do in the end as he was too poorly), they wanted to keep him in overnight on a drip as an extra precaution, so that could well be an option to suggest to your vet too if they don't?

[Janeyk]

Good to hear you saw a better vet and good luck for the results 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

So pleased that you saw a better vet yesterday. 

Have read what you have posted and assume he told you the eye would not recover?

How old is Sam, I cant see if you merntioned it?

I hope the bloods come up with good results and remember that any cat over 10 years should go on a drip for sugery cos this helps to alieve kidney problems and also make sure they can give Sam sufficient pain relief for after the op. Tghere are also very safe anesthetics they can use on older cats 

[Hippykitty]

I saw the good vet yesterday. He gave Sam a thorough examination: of her eyes and general well-being, including putting a thermometer up bum! He also asked LOTS of questions about her health. After this, he went through the options in a logical and sympathetic way. One was to go ahead and remove the eye, risking the g.a. Another was to run blood tests before the op to see what sort of state her health is in and what kind of risk it would involve. He thought she might have hyperthyroidism because of fast heartbeat, even though she was very nervous; he thought he could feel a node on her thyroid. If she was hyper, it would be best for her to take some pills for a week or so before the op.
He also put forward the chance that the eye would naturally atrophy; but said even if this happened she'd be at risk of infection and would be better without the eye.
He then mentioned pts; at which I said NO! He asked me to consider that she has failing kidneys and a painful eye, but he felt that it would be inappropriate without trying to do something to help her first, as she isn't a hopeless case.

I decided to have the initial bloods done, and see what the results are. I took her to have the blood taken this morning. I'm hoping she'll be okay for an op.

The two vets are so different. The first, bad, vet looked her over in about a minute, and the whole consultation lasted only about five minutes, for which he charged a small fortune. The second vet gave her eye and her general health a full exam (shining lights in her eyes etc) and the consult lasted around half an hour. He charged LESS even though it's the same surgery! 

If surgery is possible, I'll make sure the bad vet - Mr Sloan - doesn't do it. There is another vet there who's okay. When he started working there about 20 years ago he was awful, but he's improved with age and experience. I'd prefer him to do the surgery if Mr Bate can't.

Thanks for the support. Will keep you posted.

[Leanne]

Thats terrible behaviour from the vet, I hope you have a better time this time round.

[Gillian Harvey]

Stitching the third eyelid across to help the ulcer heal worked really well for my Cassie the first time she had it done years ago, although she was a bit younger than your Sam when she had it done, maybe 14/15 yrs old. However the second time, when the ulcer returned, the op wasnt so successful, so I opted for removal and she was so much happier, because ulcers are incredibly painful and drops just don't work for long enough. 

[JackSpratt]

Oh HK, what a horribly abrupt vet. The crazy thing is, he probably didn't even realise how upsetting he was behaving. The old chap who owns our vet still likes to "keep his hand in" but I do wish he wouldn't. His views on companion animal care are very outdated and he is obviously more geared towards caring for livestock, much like the vet you saw.

Although I don't dislike him, I always ask for a young Australian guy at our practice because I know he'll be honest, sympathetic and think of any possible options rather than the easiest and cheapest.

Good luck with the appointment and sorry you're still feeling so sad.

[Hippykitty]

I have a feeling that he would rather work with livestock than pets and doesn't understand the relationship people have with cats etc. So far, I haven't had a phone call cancelling the appt for this afternoon, so hopefully she'll see the good vet.

Thanks for the link Mark, I read it but much of the treatment seems to involve surgery, which I want to avoid because she's 18 and her kidneys are a bit wonky. Her urea levels are high; not sure of the exact count.

This morning, when I put her drops in, her eye looked very weepy, white and jellyish. I'm hoping she'll heal it herself. I'll discuss the options with the vet and will definitely NOT be pts! Will let you know how it goes.

Must find new vets! Mr Bate is the only reason I've stayed with that surgery but it looks as though he'll be retiring soon. A great loss.

I'm feeling very upset and stressed by Sam's problems, would hate to lose her so soon after Polly. She's not been quite the same since Polly died: depressed. They were good friends for years. Poor Samantha. She's being great at taking her antibio's and having drops put in her eye.
 

[Millys Mum]

How he can decide that after a few days is  ulcers take time to heal and i would think stitching the third eyelid up for a few weeks would be worth trying before even considering removing the eye 
I understand your dislike of this man, i hope your normal vet gives you some proper advice!

[Mark]

Poor Samantha - lets hope the other vet is better. This site http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/corneal.html is quite reliable for info but nowhere do they mention eye removal and certainly not PTS  - even for the worst kind of ulcer where fluid is leaking from the eye, there are treatments which may include removing dead cells or having the eye closed up during healing.

[clarenmax]

Good luck tomorrow hun, and lets hope your usual vet can give you some better idea of what's required.

That other vet sounds horrible, if you have no compassion, how can you do a job like that?  If it were me I would complain, but I know its hard in these situations 

[Janeyk]

Poor Sam  good luck at the vets tomorrow  x

[bunglycat]

Please get a second and third opinion if necessary -thats just not on -put to sleep for an ulcer !
Change vets if need be .
I had a vet or receptionist  tell me the  other day on the phone -did i want to let FiFi go as the bill was going to be big and they knew i was worried as didn''t have much money !!
I said no way ( was pretty upset at the time otherwise would have lost my temper ) said i would get the money somehow no matter what - she is absolutely fine now -think it was a blocked bladder !) and the bill has almost been paid -got the final one today and am taking it later this week .

Hope Sam is okay and continues to be for a long while yet 

[Hippykitty]

Sorry I haven't  been here for a long time, but since Polly died Purrs reminds me of her too painfully.

I've popped in to rant and because I'm worried about Sam. Last week, I noticed she wasn't opening her left eye, so I had a look at it. At first I thought she'd quickly developed a cataract, but thought this weird cos it developed almost overnight. So I booked a vet appt. Unfortunately, my favourite vet is ill (I think this is something chronic, because he's been working part time for a while), so I had to see another, less competent, vet.

He took one look at her eye, proclaimed that "this has been there for a while" as though I'd neglected her, and gave me a dirty look. I was mad at the implication. I had a friend with me, who sees my cats often, and mentioned that she hadn't noticed anything. It was obvious he didn't believe us.

He said she has a corneal ulcer, and put drops in her eyes. He prescribed antibiotics and told me to return in a few days. I tried to make an appointment with the other vet, but he was still off ill, so I had to return to see the same guy.

On my second visit, he quickly looked in her eye, told me she'd have to have it removed, then said she was unlikely to come through the op because of her age! I asked if there was any alternative treatment. He said she could be euthanised. He said this as though it was nothing. I was shocked. I'd gone in there expecting more antibiotics or something, and he was telling me she's terminal. I had to ask if I could sit down, and struggled to fight back tears. I made an appointment for an op to have her eye removed.

When I returned home, I got on the net and found loads of other ways to deal with corneal ulcers which are less radical than eye removal. I chatted to friends on the phone and decided to cancel the op and try to see the other vet. I have an appointment with him tomorrow.

Samantha's still alive, eating, taking her meds (synulox and fucithalmic vet). The synulox have given her tummy runs! She doesn't appear to be in pain, isn't rubbing her eye. Though the ulcer isn't much changed, it doesn't seem worse.

I'm hoping the vet she sees tomorrow will be more positive.