Cruel to make cat stay outdoors?

[Liz]

My outside ferals are all short hairs except for Big Red and they can be found in our single garage at night snuggled up on the armchairs with the electric heat pads or in the wendy house at the other end of the garden with the snuggle safe The dogs and I put out every nioght no matter what the weather = this does include blizzards and the odd foot of snow - all their food has a bit of sunflower oil added to the wet food - it doesn't freeze to fast for the late arrivals

I have no idea how they coped before the Clan moved in here but they are at least safe, dry and warm if they want to be now

I have the odd one who won't go back outside and are now housecats!

[JackSpratt]

It's possible that he wouldn't, yes. But to be honest I agree with trigger; anyone that dearly loved their cat could not leave them outside in this weather.

[Kay and Penny]

I suspect you're on a loser here - if these people really cared for their cats they would not have dumped them outside in the first place

they obviously prefer to have a cat free house, and any suggestion aimed at getting the cats back in is likely to be met with negativity, and you  will probably be resented for offering solutions

my bet would be that there was nowhere to house them outside in their previous place, otherwise they would have been put out there

my neighbour's excuse for shutting a cat up in a tiny porch 24/7 was that she was 'funny' in the house

[Lottie (Team Svartalfheim's)]

Ooo that is totally unacceptable to not spend time outside with them 

Even if she just got something like this: http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dog_houses_flaps/dog_houses/niko/33083 + http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dog_houses_flaps/dog_houses/niko/80775   and put a snugglesafe heat pad in each night for them it would make life much more pleasant for the cats and wouldn't cost her a fortune if she remains adament that they have to stay outside

[carolynl]

Lottie,

They have got accommodation but it is in a cold farm building that used to be a cow shed.  They have got a 'bedroom' inside this building which is a box made from insulation material but I would not go as far as to say it was comfortable or cosy or even clean.

They also, as far as a can tell, don't get a lot of company from their humans who profess to love them dearly

They are not longhairs or even semi longhairs like wegies (I have a wegie and she loves being outside, but still likes to come in to sleep and get cuddles).

Jackspratt,

Apparently he started spraying at their old house, when another one of their cats (a male) died.  He hasn't sprayed in their new house because he has never been allowed in there.  Do you think that maybe he wouldn't even spray in the new house because the other male, the one that died, has never been there?

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

We often find that people who tells us puss is fowling in the house don't actually supply a litter tray. The would be a the first thing to rule out.

I didn't ask them about the litter tray but I know where the cats are slleping at themoment there is only one tray and it is always dirty.

Do you think I should suggest they try providing a tray each for their cats and that they should empty them daily.

The golden rule is one tray per cat plus one spare. So technically 2 cats need 3 trays. You could get away with 2 if they are changed regularly and solids removed promptly. And yes they need changing regularly or the cat will just soil elsewhere - spray or no spray.  Also... I have known problems where the mother/daughter mother/son thing is the cause. Not all cats live happily with blood kin. Worth considering as a possible reason.  I think it would be interesting to establish if this spraying is actually a behavioural issue or the poor soul lacks adequate toilet facilities. Given what you've said I suspect the latter and I think proper toilet facilities (both freshness and correct location of the trays) to put an immediate stop to the house soiling. 

Meant to add... of course it's not acceptable to exclude a pet from its home at any time of year, let alone mid winter. But maybe if this problem is solved they'll be allowed back in? 

[carolynl]

I think the sad thing is that they were allowed indoors and aren't anymore, if they were used to being outside then they would know no difference.

I agree, if they were used to being outdoors all the time I wouldn't have a problem with it, but I know they aren't and I know they just want some love and warmth because of the fact they are always trying (and sometimes succeeding) to get into our house.  They come in through the cat flap and then are confronted by our cats who see them off, but it doesn't seem to put them off trying again.

[JackSpratt]

Oops - assumed that part about it being two males. So, have they moved recently? That can be another reason males get insecure and start spraying everywhere. (And females on occasion, has to be said.)

Definitely they'd benefit from two (regularly cleaned) trays to see if that helps matters. Zylkene is another thing meant to relax cats so might be worth looking into.

I agree, Janey.

[Janeyk]

I think the sad thing is that they were allowed indoors and aren't anymore, if they were used to being outside then they would know no difference.

[Lottie (Team Svartalfheim's)]

My views on cats living outside totally depends on the cat (age, reason for living outside etc) and what their outdoor accomodation is.

What is the cats outdoor accomodation like? Is the owner of the 2 cats spending plenty of time outside with the cats giving them cuddles, grooming them etc?

My stud boy lives outside due to the fact he hoses everything with spray however he has a 2 storey cat house with lighting that has got his toilet and kitchen facilities downstairs and his bedroom/play area upstairs with a 10x8ft run attached to it so he can choose whether he wants to sit outside or play on his cat playstations in a snow blizzard or whether he wants to lounge around in his house if it's tipping with rain. My cats don't need it due to their breed but most people with other breeds, particularly shorthairs, also have heating in their cat houses for when it is cold so that the cat stays nice and warm.
I also make sure that I spent time outside with my boy every day come pouring rain, sunshine, blizzards or gale force winds  cuddling him, playing with him etc and for when I'm not out with him if he doesn't have a girl in with him for company he has got a radio to listen to (he's a radio 1 fan!) and our next door neighbour always has a quick chat to him when she's going in and out of her bck door lol.

[carolynl]

We often find that people who tells us puss is fowling in the house don't actually supply a litter tray. The would be a the first thing to rule out.

I didn't ask them about the litter tray but I know where the cats are slleping at themoment there is only one tray and it is always dirty.

Do you think I should suggest they try providing a tray each for their cats and that they should empty them daily.

[carolynl]

Personally I think its really cruel, poor pussy cats out in this weather, if they aren't used to it they won't have their winter coats.

If they don't want them indoors then maybe they should consider giving them up altogether, whats the point of having pets if your not going to have them as part of your family??

These were exactly my thoughts 

[carolynl]

Legally, they are obligated to supply adequate food, water and shelter by the Animal Welfare Act - although don't expect too much from the RSPCA. (Sorry any RSPCA supporters....)

You could recommend Feliway. The young male is likely to be feeling he has to assert himself if there are two males, hence the spraying.

They already tried Feliway at their old house and they say it didn't work. Personally I don't think they gave it long enough.

There is only on male. The other is female and she is his mum.  They do have shelter, food and water -  we live on a farm and they have one of the out buildings -  but is isn't warm like they are used to.

[KrazyKatLady]

Personally I think its really cruel, poor pussy cats out in this weather, if they aren't used to it they won't have their winter coats.

If they don't want them indoors then maybe they should consider giving them up altogether, whats the point of having pets if your not going to have them as part of your family??

Or maybe they should get them a kennel of some sort? I'm sure there are plenty of solutions out there these days, they need a warm safe place to sleep.
 

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

We often find that people who tells us puss is fowling in the house don't actually supply a litter tray. The would be a the first thing to rule out.

[JackSpratt]

Legally, they are obligated to supply adequate food, water and shelter by the Animal Welfare Act - although don't expect too much from the RSPCA. (Sorry any RSPCA supporters....)

You could recommend Feliway. The young male is likely to be feeling he has to assert himself if there are two males, hence the spraying.

[carolynl]

Hi everyone

I need a bit of advice here and I'm not sure if I have put this in the correct area.

We have new neighbours who have 2 cats.  Where they were living previously the cats were allowed in the house. Now they have moved here they have stopped allowing the cats indoors even in this really cold weather we have had recently.  The reason they have given is that the young male sprays and they don't want their house to smell (He has been neutered). One cat is very old and the other is about 5 years.  My point is they are both really sweet cats and are used to having a nice warm place to sleep and lots of attention.  Now they have to stay out in the cold and they are obviously craving attention as they always come and fuss us and are constantly trying to get into our house.

A. this is upsetting our own cats and I am worried they are becoming very unsettled.
B. can anyone tell me in an expert capacity if my neighbours are being cruel and this is not good for the poor cats?
C. is there any advice I can give them about stopping the male from spraying?

Any help gratefully received