Asbo now called Andy the Stray Tom! Has a forever home

[wharfevalley catsprotection]

Just to clarify Adel (Leeds) policy on FIV...

All long term male strays and females from high FIV population areas are tested at the vets. If they're FIV we re-home them as indoor cats although there have been instances where people have ended up keeping strays they've found as outdoor cats, but we check that there's a low cat popluation in the area and the temperament of the cat.

If they are truely feral we do PTS rather than neuter and return to stop the spread of the disease in the feral colonies.

[Millys Mum]

Tan im glad asbo is being helped  (i hope he lets you!)
Are there any other rescues your way who will rehome him? Hes done well to avoid the road so far but may not remain lucky?
If he doesnt have a proper home/territory then he may continue fighting as he will still want what others have got.

Julie i dont think people were condoning the disease but vets with the opinion of pts positive cats to clear the population are wrong, a neutered well fed positive cat is v.unlikely to continue spreading it and in many cases would be kept in anyway.

[Ann Clarke (Tabby cat)]

As Sharon says we do have guidance in the branch manual that we are all supposed to be operating under. That was put together to try and eliminate all the variations in branches as some "do their own thing" as it were, especially if they have been going a while. As far as I can remember the advice is that we should try and rehome FIV + wherever possible and only pts on vets advice if they are sick and unlikely to recover. It is different with ferals that are FIV+ I think as it is more of a problem. I have the manual at home so will check what it says and post it here. We never PTS FIV+ unless under vets advice and fortunately our vets are quite up to date on things so we don't have any issues with them. We are lucky to also have a specialist FIV fosterer who has 3 FIV cats of her own.

We are thrilled today because we have just rehomed an FIV boy who has been with us since November 2008. He went to his new home yesterday and is apparently already making himself right at home. I will post on the Rescue and Rehoming section later so you can see how gorgeous he is. 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Thanks for that link Moira , will add it to our links section 

[Angiew]

Tosker's vet added the Coronovirus test himself, as he felt even more strongly about halting the spread of FIP

and having lost a kitten to it I understand very much how wonderful it would be if it could be wiped off the face of the earth

Yes but then what? A large % of cats show positive for coronavirus and only a few go on the get FIP?

[moira]

FIV is a much misunderstood condition often met with fear and panic. For anyone not familiar with it or wanting more information the Glasgow University Vet School has produced a good overview:

http://www.gla.ac.uk/faculties/vet/cad/informationforowners/felineimmunodeficiencyvirusfiv/

[JackSpratt]

But we MUST believe that FIV is not a desirable thing to have roaming out there in the general cat population. 

It's most definitely a horrible illness for a cat to endure that doesn't have someone caring for it and monitoring it. But it's an illness that exists, and can be controlled if the cat is lucky enough to be given a chance, so surely the policy should encompass a certain time frame in every rescue?

If only.. IF ONLY everyone would just  neuter their cats BEFORE they go out and we wouldn't have to go through this, would we?   

Agree wholeheartedly.  Must be very frustrating being on the "front line", Julie.

Have attached a picture of Thomas, my friends cat. He was posted about on here two Christmases ago. He's FIV positive and was a stray at a Sheffield Veterinary Practice - if my friend hadn't taken him the vet would have had no option but to PTS as noone was available to care for him. This is what my friend said recently when I asked how he was doing: We LOVE Thomas the Christmas cat - he makes us so happy!

[Canterbury_cats (Sharon)]

Rescues, vets and "us" know which area are pockets of FIV.. so its probably not a good idea to publish them.. Also why scare people, we want their co operation to help.

Mark mentioned about no policies on strays, ferals etc. The latest News and View has a good article and all branches now have an Operational book where vets and welfare is covered. its guidelines to follow and gives advice. we have rarely had to consult it though which is a good thing..as we seem to get similar stories and situations and all are dealt with on the same basis..

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Well we don't wish to add to the hits for it then, do we?  Not everyone who reads purrs does so for the same reasons we do.  We know that there are idiots out there sniggering at us and who would wish our puss cats harm.  For an FIV stray, a bored thug with an airgun and an FIV regional map would be just the icing on his cake. 

[CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls]

I cant find it anyway, but its on here somewhere 

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

CC and myself were told about FIV seems to be in certain area's also! 

I do have a link that shows the high risk areas for England, will post it if I find it 

Please don't do that, CC. There are thugs out there who use such information as a justification to shoot stray cats on sight.  We picked up a stray which had been shot with an air gun after the local paper published an FIV story in his area. 

[CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls]

But we MUST believe that FIV is not a desirable thing to have roaming out there in the general cat population. 

I dont believe its a desirable thing to have out there in the environment but should every cat found to have it be pts? Its not the fault of a cat and if more people and vets were to learn more about FIV, then maybe it could be managed better and somewhere along the line be eradicated. I dont think its a good opinion for a vet to have that just says pts every cat with FIV.

CC and myself were told about FIV seems to be in certain area's also! 

I do have a link that shows the high risk areas for England, will post it if I find it 

[Shirley]

It's the same in Greece apparantly! Last year 2 UK vets went over there and neutered 58 feral cats. A local then wanted to take the animal welfare people to court as he believes they should meet their maker intact!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just ridiculous! The girl who told us this on Catchat, lives there and has just taken on 2 blind kittens, found a pup  with terrible sores all over him,dumped by the bins and last year, 2 more stray kittens in terrible condition, but now beautiful! I think this now brings her total of rescues living with her to 11 cats and 5 dogs!!! She's brilliant!!!   

[snarf]

the number of times ive been told im cruel for having my 2 done!
its crazy, some of it seems to be males that misunderstand the procedure (and think something else is chopped off) i was argueing for weeks with a girl from work (who was from spain) who was convinced that i could be prosecuted for neutering them as its stopped them behaving naturally!

[Shirley]

Thanks for that Julie!

Tan, i started a petition on neutering-i had so many negative comments and only about 60 signatures-couldn't believe it!!!!

[Tan]

If only.. IF ONLY everyone would just  neuter their cats BEFORE they go out and we wouldn't have to go through this, would we?   

so agrre with that hun.

If the "owner" of the tom we have around had been a responible and caring owner he would not be making other cats pregnant causing more kittens in this world and have a home and care! I so think we need to bring in neutering law !!

He's not been in the garden for a couple of days now. Hopefully the neighbour can get him into a basket soon and we can get him to the vets and go from there.
He is a very good looking Tabby  

[Kay and Penny]

Tosker's vet added the Coronovirus test himself, as he felt even more strongly about halting the spread of FIP

and having lost a kitten to it I understand very much how wonderful it would be if it could be wiped off the face of the earth

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Liz, excuse my ignorance but what's ACP?

A very strong sedative often used to sedate horses. You mix it with food, wait 10 minutes after din-dins then ZZZzzzzzzz..... or that's the plan.  It does have to be said it's for specialist use and hence why my vet won't let me have any. 

[Shirley]

Liz, excuse my ignorance but what's ACP?

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Yeah.... sorry, I really didn't mean to lash out and really didn't mean to wish bad thoughts about all the wonderful FIV puds who do find love and security in indoor homes.  Please excuse the tantrum. 

If only.. IF ONLY everyone would just  neuter their cats BEFORE they go out and we wouldn't have to go through this, would we?   

[Liz]

PB any of ours put back have been to very well managed colonies and if they need help they get it

If anything here test positive I would play it by ear as to what to do - some adapt to being inside - Holly and Sailor in our cases and neither was a fighter but had issues with humans both cost a lot in their time with us but were safe and cared for which sadly isn't the case for a lot of the cats we all know and care for

Like FIV - FIP is a distressing illness and I know how hard you fought for the Cinque port kittens same as we did with Gem and her kids - I was lucky I have 1 of 5 left

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Excuse me for pointing out the  obvious??

FIV is a nasty, vile and evil disease which should be wiped off the face of the planet!  Stabilised and pampered FIV cats are in the minority, mostly life for FIV strays who by definition don't get proper health care or diet, involves dying alone and in great pain and suffering. Anyone who doesn't believe me about what FIV is capable of is welcome to the photos of my little Cinque Ports angels that didn't make it - fortunately I didn't record sound files of what a 6 week old kitten screaming in pain as it dies sounds like. That sound will live with me until the day I die myself.

Don't wish to upset anyone... or maybe I do. But we MUST believe that FIV is not a desirable thing to have roaming out there in the general cat population. 

[clarenmax]

It is a stupid idea as there are indoor homes for FIV cats and not all cats fight. I wonder how many of our rescue cats would be positive if tested.

Indeed, I'm sure its way more prevalent then people realise.

[Liz]

Julie - our Old vets gave us ACP after some of our young ferals did serious damage to vets and surgery - we spent a weekend painting it for them after a Pebbles and Storm visit and they were only 16 weeks old - Pebbles is now in a normal cat box and Miss Stornm all 2.75kgs is still in a crush cage she is like a Bengal Tiger in fetching grey and white covering!

 We wouldn't have tested all of ours barring the FIP incident but even if any had been found to be FIV it would have made no difference they have all been together as the Clan for a good many years now and we don't have fighting issues - the odd chase and a couple who hate all cats but are left well alone by the others in fact its my nice domestic cats that are the hooligans!

[puggy1975 Zoe]

I think its quite sad that FIV cats get put to sleep as there are indoor homes they could have long and happy lives

[Mark]

It is a stupid idea as there are indoor homes for FIV cats and not all cats fight. I wonder how many of our rescue cats would be positive if tested. For all I know, Willow was FIV as kidney failure is one of the symptoms. I'm sure she wasn't tested.

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

The father of Issey's kittens tested positive for FIV and the local CP insisted he was PTS.

My old vet was also for PTS as "in the interests of trying to eliminate FIV from the cat population"

[Mark]

I wish CP would have a proper policy regarding FIV. There is nothing on the site. The HO Homing centre itself does rehome FIV cats. I don't know if they send the branches guidance notes at least - I would hope so. I can understand it could bring some branches to a standstill if they were unable to rehome though.

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Out of interest, Liz, where'd you get the ACP from? We have a few stubborn ferals we've been trying to trap for the snip over 3 years now.  The vet won't let us have ACP so I was wondering if there's another source I hadn't concidered. 

[Liz]

Sharon its hopefully going to be the new Deeside Branch if we can get enough folks on board - I'm seemingly quite a catch for them as I have more gear than they give for start up - I have my own traps and crush cages and of course kitten pens, mother and kitten pens and 2 isolation wards!

I will be truthful in saying none of my colony cats were tested before we trapped and moved the whole lot with us 3 years ago - Ace is the only one not tested as we can't get near him and he has beaten a large dose of ACP!

If a colony is managed then we have put back in the past but all have had regular feeders and watchers - with our outside crew all the ones trapped haven't been tested but have spent the night in the downstairs study before window opened to release them - of course Blue and Smmy didn't go after 5 days so are now house cats and have fitted in

Ferals aren't for the long haul I am well aware I have a unique setup and 12 years of loving ferals and having the time and space to let them do whatever they can be - some of mine are now lap higgers and sleep with us on the bed at night but it has taken alot of love and time and sadly its not possible in the majority of cases but hopefully the "new" branch will have a good policy we are also going to be involved in Wild cat spotting if it all takes of as some of the large estates in the area have Wildcats and are worried about the cross poulation with ferals.

[Bazsmum]

CC and myself were told about FIV seems to be in certain area's also! 

[Canterbury_cats (Sharon)]

I have only just seen this thread. Liz what branch are ou helping to set up?
I think as a general rule, we get alot of stray cat calls and are unable to take them all it at the same time. So we do try to encourage the person ringing to help us, we usually offer to neuter the cat if they do all the running around. But we do not routinely test if the cat is going back to the place it was found.. However, i am sure the vets inform us if a stray that we help neuter seems to be ill and we would investigate further.. Generally it all relies on people helping us to help them.

If the cat goes back and eventually comes into our care we would then test (if we knew it was a stray).. Owned cats that we have veterinary history are usually not tested..

Any cat that is coming into our care though is tested, but we do not have a PTS policy on FIV. and actually do well on rehoming them. However, ferals is another issue and thats a situation that Julie mentiones it hard to jodge until you get a cat in a trap and at the vets.

On a side note FIV is probably more prevelant out there in strays, feral cats then we perhaps think. But it is often found in clusters and is something a rescue gets to know about what areas are pockets of infection. ...

But i think i am right in saying CP rules state if a feral proves to be positive then it is PTS.. without second testing required as its unfair to wait for the 2nd testing results to come through if they are sent away. Many vets are not keen to board ferals..

[CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls]

After the op do they go to a foster to recover or get released straight away?

I would say this would be left to the person taking him to the vets- to pick him back up and let him recoup for a while when he was home, this is what I done with Seb 

[Janeyk]

 

I still believe they are assuming he's feral as what they are offering seems to be the standard TNR. The kind of service CP offers does differ a lot between branches. So I can't say what your branch can or can't offer, only what WE would offer should you live in our patch....  If no one in the branch is interested much in trapping for instance, they can't offer you that and you will have to trap for yourself and do all the running around. 

Yep, I guess that is what they are assuming too, or that he is a stray and they have no room to take him on so hope you will care for him.  That was case for me I trapped them took them to, and collected from the vets  (it was a case of TNR) I kept them until late that night in my garage then released them.   

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Tan, it depends on what their foster situation is and whether they have fosterers prepared to work long term on a cat. Some fosterers love the grumpy ones.

I still believe they are assuming he's feral as what they are offering seems to be the standard TNR. And to be honest, until he's in the trap and at the vets a lot of the time it's hard to judge whether they will come round or not. Even then, some of them you think will come round with a bit of intensive work actually prove to be a lot worse once in care! I do recall one such Tabby I swore was a softee in the making as he was very good with his feeder, she could tickle his ears and even rub his tummy... but the minute we got him in a pen he turned into a Panther!  Turned out he only liked his lady whose garden he chose to squat in and on one else would do.  We took him back to her after 2 weeks and he still lives next to her bins and won't leave. 

It's me who often makes these judgements about returning them in Canterbury as I mainly handle the ferals and I always allow two weeks for initial shock to go. If after 2 weeks they are still very hostile and it is plain to see we are doing them no favours by keeping them cooped up, back they go (so long as the environment is safe and someone is feeding them!) 

You can expect him to radically change his behaviour when the hormones go... but be warned it can take up to six weeks for that to happen. He should become a lot quieter after that. 

The kind of service CP offers does differ a lot between branches. So I can't say what your branch can or can't offer, only what WE would offer should you live in our patch.... it's ALL down to having sufficient volunteers interested enough in that particular niche of welfare work. If no one in the branch is interested much in trapping for instance, they can't offer you that and you will have to trap for yourself and do all the running around.  Other branches have really serious trappers and it's virtually a professional door-to-door service.  Also what contact they will maintain after returning a cat to site depends on the volunteers being prepared to do it... Again, you have to outright just ask them. 

Do give either me or Sharon a yell offlist if you like, hun. We'd be glad to do whateve is in our power. 

[Liz]

It does vary from CP branch to branch - Perth my old one isn't for PTS and have rehomed all their FIV with very little hassle - I had 2 of them one Sailor for 7 years and Holly died after 8 months aged 2 - All the Clan are FIV and Corona negative - we had then all tested after the FIP Loss of Gem - Beijing has the Corona virus but that has made no difference here as she is our baby gorgeous

I am currently involved in helping set up a new CP Branch and it will not PTS FIV+ cats - all the folks involved know my opinion on that already and also on the feral issue - OK not all ferals can have the chance to land on their paws like all the darlings inside and outside like my crew but have built up some good contacts as the local CP branch to me PTS FIV cats and know my opinion after they insisted Bl;ue was tested without my permission - Vets now know anything I bring in is destined to be ours on the inside or outside and all are ID Chipped to us just in case they go for a walkabout!

[clarenmax]

I think it must vary from branch to branch.  I know Woking are FIV friendly, as Max and Poot came from there, and I know of 3 other FIVs who have been rehomed as well.

They do take it on a case by case scenario though, and those who are capable of being rehomed to indoor environment are given the chance, if they are otherwise in good health.

I'm not sure about ferals though, as they are putting a risk out into that cat community, although saying that, the risk was there before they were caught and tested?

[Tan]

Thanks 

Julie do ya think then the CP would actually take him into Foster after the op at my local vets to see if he can be homed or do as they said on the phone that he would be released back here after.
Paula (CP) said the two things that would happen are either put back if negitive and netutered or PTS if positive.  Whats the standard policy for CP for neutering strays? After the op do they go to a foster to recover or get released straight away?

 If negitive, Would CP have an contact with him after the op or do we collect him and set him free or try to find a home?
We don't mind him around and would continue feeding him and i think the lady would continue to allow him shelter as long as her Sam is ok with that. I would hope that the neutering would help him not to fight my two as this is also a main concern for my boys, esp as they only have the garden as their outside space.  I wish i could take him in so he has a loving home himself but no way can i with Garf & Marl.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I am sure it is with you Julie but know at Bridgend which is one of the 7 or is 17 cp rehoming centres they pts all fiv cats and all are tested, cos have a friend who had a stray who went there only for her to find this out later. Luckily he was clear and rehomed after a long time.

I tried them for Tina on an off chance  but they were dar too slow and Tina would have been dead in another 24 hrs I reckon if I hadnt have picked up and taken her to Moira. She was tested and was clear because a possible home at the time depended on this.

I so agree that the question needs to be asked and answered without ambigatry..is that a word 

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Reading between the lines, Tan, and being one of those that would have dealt with your call if you'd phoned from this region, I think they are confused about puss's nature and suspect he may be feral from your description of him.  If it were here, we'd warn you he MAY have to be released back if he failed to come round in a foster environment. Often we find people just want rid of a cat, especially if he has caused trouble. So our envolvement in a case like this would depend upon you being willing to care for him afterward if we did have to release him back.

The FIV warning is a standard warning we are obliged to give people such as yourself when they call. Sadly it can sometimes happen with long term strays that a serious health problem comes to light when they do finally get a good vet exam. People reporting strays like this can often become shocked and upset when we tell them puss is suffering and can't be made better. When we do have to PTS such strays we then look like the villians which was not the intent - it's always the people who take the cat to a vet which get the blame you see! It helps everyone concerned if the worse case senario is discussed and accepted as a possibility right from the off so everyone is clear on what CAN happen. 

I would get back to them and ask them the question outright - "what is your policy on rehoming FIV cats?" It's better to ask than guess.  Branches do vary and there are no set in stone guidelines. 

By the way, Gill, it is standard operational proceedure that 'high risk' cats will be tested. HQ insist on it. The result does determine what kind of home we seek for them. So please don't think that FIV testing is a death sentence.... it's just a diagnostic tool only as far as we are concerned.