Frustrated over Jaffa spraying - latest - he has cystitis

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

No more spraying so fingers crossed we are past this little episode.  Trouble is, Jaffa's a friendly little lad and walks around with his tail up most of the time.  He also does the pleased to see you, quivery tail thing so he often looks as though he might spray when he in fact has no intention of spraying.  Every time he's backed into a corner with his tail up, I think he's going to spray.  But of course he doesn't.  I try to distract him if I think he might be as I think spraying can easily become a habit if they do it a lot. 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Yes definately stop the panicking cos he will pick up your stress 

[alisonandarchie]

Poor Jaffa  

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

I  must stop panicking that he's spraying all the time though.  Last night I couldn't see where he was and immediately assumed he was in a corner somewhere spraying    I called his name a few times with increasing urgency and the poor lad came bouncing out of the litter tray with a "I came as quickly as I could" look on his face.  When I looked in the tray, he'd done a poo which he normally covers but he hadn't covered this one and let's just say it was a little scattered    I must have called him as he was mid action and the poor thing had got it out as quickly as possible then come out of the tray and trotted up to me without bothering to cover or anything.  Poor lad!

[alisonandarchie]

Good news,long may it continue

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

You mentioned having a new tray and I wonder if that could have been a trigger

Parki was most upset when her litter tray was put inn new place and started peeing on the sofa cushions and clean washing. She has been ok ever since litter tray returned to normal place

Not a new tray, new litterl.  I actually think he's fine with the litter now.  Touch wood (famous last words) there's something about him at the moment that seems a bit more settled.  He seems to be using the tray ok and doesn't come to use it when I pull it out as much (presumably because he doesn't need to go and isn't holding on waiting for me to pull it out).  I am still going to get the 2nd tray but it will be a week or so before I can get all the stuff in the bathroom shifted and the new tray in place.  I am also going to get some feliway and am thinking of getting some cystease as it did occur to me that he might have had mild cystitis (he has had cystitis in the past but then he was making frequent trips to the litter tray) and it won't hurt to give him that.   

[alisonandarchie]

You mentioned having a new tray and I wonder if that could have been a trigger

Parki was most upset when her litter tray was put inn new place and started peeing on the sofa cushions and clean washing. She has been ok ever since litter tray returned to normal place

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

THis sounds like a plan and hope it works 

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

just a long shot, but you say he isn't shy of using the tray when you pull it out

I had a cat who hated to use an enclosed tray or one pushed into a corner, so I had to keep it out in the open

would it be worth investing in two or three cheap trays and leaving them around in different locations to see which he uses?

You could be on to something there.   I use a covered tray in the corner of the room.  This morning I cleaned the tray as soon as I got up to give him an opportunity to use it when it was pulled out into the middle of the room and with the lid off, and he used it straight away.   think he is worried that Mosi is going to ambush him.  The past day or 2 Mosi has taken to ambushing poor Jaffa from his cat cube.  I actually flattened it before I left the house today so that he couldn't pull that trick for the rest of the day.

I am going to keep an eye on him and if he does it again I will take a sample to the vets.  He is due a general check up soon anyway and I think he would benefit from a visit.  But I don't like taking him to the vet unnecessarily because it really stresses him out.  I am also going to get another tray to put in the bathroom and will get one without a hood.

I a

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Plus what trigger said yes I would try going back to the original litter.

It may not be attention seeking , that may just be down to timing. One of mine missed the tray today which was a pain but they sit so close to the edge!

[Kay and Penny]

just a long shot, but you say he isn't shy of using the tray when you pull it out

I had a cat who hated to use an enclosed tray or one pushed into a corner, so I had to keep it out in the open

would it be worth investing in two or three cheap trays and leaving them around in different locations to see which he uses?

[Dawn F]

do you think you should see the vet as its happened a few times in short succession?  I know my friends cat was doing it and had a low level bladder infection

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Jaffa strikes again    Last night immediately after his supper (so can't be for food).  I was in the bathroom taking my face off  and he came in then walked along the edge of the shower and behind the curtain.  Now he doesn't normally go there so I suspected given that was his place of choice last week and was able to distract him before any action.  But then I continued what I was doing and he went into the hall and sprayed the front door.  I caught him before he got much out which is helpful with the clean up but still frustrating.  I wondered if it was the litter he doesn't like as he spent some time sniffing the tray before he would condescend to use it afterwards.  I hadn't cleaned the tray since the morning (and was actually leaving it a few minutes as Mosi had done a bit of a smelly poo  ).  Maybe he didn't fancy using it after Mosi had stank it out, although he's never normally shy at climbing into a dirty tray when I pull it out to clean it.   The frustrating thing about all this is that I still think it's attention seeking.  I dont' want to tempt fate by saying it, but he's never done it when I'm out.  He uses the tray happily then.  And he always does it when I'm close by (when he went under the bed this morning I ran into the kitchen and made a noise out there in the hope that he would abandon any ideas if I wasn't close by  ).

Maybe I should give up with the WB litter and go back to using clay plus get another tray.  But he did start doing this way back when I was still using clay.  And he does still use the tray.  And he doesnt do it if I'm not present which does imply it's a message specifically for me except that I don't know what he wants.  I cant' give him more attention than he already gets.  Maybe he's a bit p'd off (excuse the pun) now that I'm back at work after xmas and new year.  Given the bad weather, I was at home a lot then and the week before last when we had the heavy snow so he had round the clock attention.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Jaffa doesn't really care if a tray is clean or not.  He'll come and use it when I'm cleaning it (before I've scooped anything out).  I am thinking of adding another tray in the  bathroom and getting some feliway, but I don't really think he's doing this due to litter tray avoidance.  I think he's just being a stroppy  and trying to get my attention.  It works.

[Millys Mum]

Does he like a clean tray to pee in, is mosi beating him to it for first wee?
If you cant trial food then try other things, extra tray, offer another litter type, feliway etc

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Oh dear LOL

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

I have a catmate double feeder which runs off a battery for the clock and the dishes just pop open when the time is right.

That's what I used to have but it's not Mosi proof 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I so agree with the last sentance and always wished that JKOcka coukd talk to me as I do with all the current cats.

I wish I could tell Sasa that she doesnt need to runaway from me and that strokes are nice, Misa I wiould tell that other people can be nice too especially when he is with me.

As for the birmans I would love to know why they wont eat and what they would prefer and that pills can help cos think both of them are pre or crf now but no point upsetting them with blood tests and vet trips cos cant pill either of them and neither eat enough regualarily to put anything in food. Franta and pron Ducha would have to be sedated and thats a very bad idea for Franta and probably Ducha.

I have a catmate double feeder which runs off a battery for the clock and the dishes just pop open when the time is right.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Mine make a noise as they rotate.  Other feeders I've tried dont' work as Mosi just nudges them around the kitchen.  These are heavy duty digital ones.  The kitchen isn't far away from the bedroom so I'd hear them unless I was deeply asleep.  I left dry food down when Jaffa was a kitten but by about 6 months he was gobbling the day's supply for him and Magpie before I'd even left for work.  He will eat and eat.  If there's food down he will scoff it.  I might have to try it but I try to avoid them when possible as it is because I need to make sure Jaffa doesn't eat the wrong stuff.  I'm conscious of his age and the fact that his kidney values were borderline a few years ago (due to dehydration before a dental) so I'm careful not to give him anything bad for an older cat.

This is one of those occasions when I just wish they could talk.  I'd love to have a chat with him about it and just ask him what he wants!  I hate to think of him being unhappy or wanting something and me being too thick to understand what he's trying to tell me.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

mine dont make a noise opening

[Christine (Blip)]

I think you are probably right about the food but I'm not sure I want to go down the auto feeder route yet.  Apart from anything else, it's a small flat and I would be woken by the sound of the auto feeders opening. 

One thing I can say is that the one we have is very quiet and would have to be in the same room to wake you up.

[clarenmax]

I wish I could suggest something hun 

[Janeyk]

.  Jaffa doesn't have dry food, but if I left any food out overnight it would all go in one go before bedtime.  Jaffa is not a grazer!  Plus, with 2 cats on different foods, I can never be sure who is eating what if I leave food out.  Jaffa has a mix of senior and all stages food whereas Mosi obv doesn't have the senior and is allowed some stuff that Jaffa isn't allowed cos it's high in phosphorus (eg hi life).

Have you tried Susanne? it may initially but once he knows that there will be food there all the time he may not bother wolfing it all down.  It is difficult though when cats can't eat the same foods and sometimes difficult trying to fathom out what is going on too and must be frustrating   

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

He's done it again - grrrr!!**  This time it was in the bathroom in the shower.  better place for cleaning at least.  Same situation.  I woke up just before 6am and the pair of them were on the bed snoozing and not agitating for anything.  Obviously they stirrred when they sensed movement from me so I gave them both a bit of fuss, with Jaffa getting the most.  My alarm was set for 6.10am so I fussed Jaffa until then and got up as soon as the alarm went off.  I then gave them more fuss in the living room.  Went into the bathroom and Jaffa was mooching around as usual so I talked to him and fussed him everytime he came close enough for a fuss.  While I was washing my teeth, he walked along the edge of the shower so I stroked what I could reach of him (only really his tail).  I talked to him for the next minute or so and actually thought he had walked out of the bathroom.  But when I looked around the shower curtain, he was spraying the back of the shower unit    He didn't agitate any further for food or anything and actually sat nicely on the bed beside me while I got dressed.

I think you are probably right about the food but I'm not sure I want to go down the auto feeder route yet.  Apart from anything else, it's a small flat and I would be woken by the sound of the auto feeders opening.  And if he got used to them opening at 5am or 5.30am then I'm sure he'd start agitating for it earlier.  He didn't have his supper (a full pouch) until 11.30pm last night so while he might want something to eat, he can't be overly hungry.  Jaffa doesn't have dry food, but if I left any food out overnight it would all go in one go before bedtime.  Jaffa is not a grazer!  Plus, with 2 cats on different foods, I can never be sure who is eating what if I leave food out.  Jaffa has a mix of senior and all stages food whereas Mosi obv doesn't have the senior and is allowed some stuff that Jaffa isn't allowed cos it's high in phosphorus (eg hi life).

Gill - Jaffa is 12.

** this is driving me mad but Jaffa is still my purrfect boy and I love him unconditionally.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Franta is a whiner and an attention seeker and due to him being ill I have tried to make sure he has food available all the time and Ducha too cos he doesnt eat enough.

I leave food down in bedroom overnight, both wet and dry and water and up to about 3-4 weeks ago was having to get up at around 0530 to put new food down but this now has stopped , so food goes down when I go to bed, couldbe 0200-0300 and then no more until I finally get up and right now is working fine, maybe cos its dark until late and also cold.

How old is Jaffa now. my guess is that he is around 10? If so he is moving into a time of life where this will get worse not better and agree with Christine this is food oriented and he is telling you he is hungry, not unreasonable at this time of the year.

Another thing that has changed is your heating situation and this may have confused him a bit.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

No re-occurance but I confess I've reverted to shutting them out of the bedroom the minute they wake up while I go back to bed for a little longer as I know I couldn't relax lying in bed dozing with Jaffa wandering around the bedroom.  Poor boys suffered with this on friday evening as I was very tired so decided to go and have a lie down about 8pm.  The boys followed me as expected but then Jaffa went under the bed and started sniffing at the same place (I did clean it with biological washing powder and surgical spirit) so the pair of them were ushered out into the back room.  I expected to just doze for a bit but next thing I knew I was woken at 11.30pm by crying.  Poor lads had been shut out all that time.

This is one of those occasions when I wish I could talk to him and ask him why he does it.  It's so frustrating not knowing why but I suspect you are on the right lines with food.  But Jafa always wants food.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Now that I come to think of it, it is usually in the mornings before breakfast that he does this so it is probably food.  Although he has done it in the evening a couple of times after eating, so not food then.

Trouble with a timed feeder is that I can't be sure which cat eats what, and tbh I dont want him having breakfast too early.  I'd have to feed them again before leaving for work as they don't get another meal until I'm back from work.  Most of the time they are fine.  While I've been off work over xmas, they've not been waking up until nearly 7am and I'm happy to get up at that time to feed them then go back to bed.

We all woke up at about 5.30am this morning (not sure who woke who) and I'm afraid I shut the pair of them out the back.  I am in work today so had to get up 6ish but no way was I getting up at 5.30 and I knew I couldn't relax while Jaffa was mooching about after yesterday.  To his credit, he didn't moan or whine about it at all and I ended up sleeping in    In fact, we had no whining or crying at all about anything even when I got up.  It was as though the little lad knew he had to make amends, bless.

[JackSpratt]

Yep, was going to suggest a timed feeder.

[Christine (Blip)]

Based on this, my hunch is that Jaffa wanted food.

Maybe.  But how do I stop it?  I'm not leaping out of bed at 6am to feed him.  esp as that would just cause him to whine earlier and earlier.  As he has wet food, leaving it in a feeder is a non starter.  He has his supper at 11pm or sometimes a bit later so it's not like he's starving.

I usually put Blip's wet food breakfast in an automatic feeder with an ice pack beneath it and it's fine.  I do this because Blip also likes to eat early (04.00 in her case).  She hasn't agitated for food any earlier and we've been doing this for about nine years.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

And he's only sprayed 6-7 time in three years?

Yes.  Maybe 7 or 8 but it is just an occasional thing.  He never did it before then and I know Mosi is the ultimate cause.  But I'm a bit baffled as to why he would do it this morning when he was receiving cuddles and was purring away and seemed like a happy contented cat.  But he is demanding and has a special attention seeking whinge that he uses several times a day and which means "I'm here and I want attention.  Get out of bed/off the chair and come over to me and fuss me".

Based on this, my hunch is that Jaffa wanted food.

Maybe.  But how do I stop it?  I'm not leaping out of bed at 6am to feed him.  esp as that would just cause him to whine earlier and earlier.  As he has wet food, leaving it in a feeder is a non starter.  He has his supper at 11pm or sometimes a bit later so it's not like he's starving.

[Christine (Blip)]

Blip's attention-seeking behaviour is to scratch soft furniture and she does do this from time to time in similar circumstances.  Based on this, my hunch is that Jaffa wanted food.

[JackSpratt]

And he's only sprayed 6-7 time in three years?

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

So Jaffa was on the bed when you both woke up, but jumped off after the alarm? He possibly wasn't trying to get fuss then, but food or maybe to be let out of the room/house? (I don't know the situation with regarding letting cats in and out at your home. )

He's obviously trying to train you.....the cat next door sprays if he isn't let out immediately when he cries at a door. He;s also started going into my shed and spraying as a territory marker unfortunately.....

No, he did want fuss.  He sleeps on the bed but when he wakes up he's not the kind of cat who will lie beside you being fussed.  He gets up and wanders around the bedroom, on the bed, walking around the bed, standing on the bedside table and knocking things over with his chin (just by rubbing his head against them).  He was on and off the bed.  He probably did want food too but he knows he doesn't get that until I've showered, done the litter tray and made my packed lunch!  He wants me to get up and follow him around and just generally give him my full attention.  My lying in bed half asleep is not good enough.  All the doors were open so he could go wherever he wanted and he doesn't go outside.

[JackSpratt]

So Jaffa was on the bed when you both woke up, but jumped off after the alarm? He possibly wasn't trying to get fuss then, but food or maybe to be let out of the room/house? (I don't know the situation with regarding letting cats in and out at your home. )

He's obviously trying to train you.....the cat next door sprays if he isn't let out immediately when he cries at a door. He;s also started going into my shed and spraying as a territory marker unfortunately.....

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Jaffa sprayed again this morning.  It's several months since he last did it, but I'm at my wits end dealing with it.  I just don't know what I can do to prevent it.   I'm certain he doesn't have a uti - in the past I have taken a sample along to the vets to test and it has always been negative and with his history of occasional spraying to get attention, I'm sure this is the same.  I dont' think it's the new litter either as he is using the tray fine and, again, it's not like he's just done it for the first time.  He has never done this when I'm out or in another room - it's always right in front of me.

I woke up just before my alarm went off and Jaffa woke up too and jumped down from the bed and started whining for attention.  I had no intention of getting up straight away so called him over to the bed for cuddles.  He jumped up on the bed and got a bit of fuss.  Jaffa tends not to sit still for cudldles often so as usual he walked around the bed, onto the bedside table etc and getting a fuss everytime he passed.  At one point he did sit down for a bit so that I could stroke him.  He started purring and seemed happy and content.  Then he went under the bed and before long I heard the unmistakble sound of him spraying.  I shouted at him (probably a mistake I admit, but understandeable!) and after a few "Jaffa No" he stopped and emerged from the bed.  I hadn't actually known where he was, I could just hear him.  I looked behind the bed and could see it was a bit wet on the wall and on the carpet.  Mosi was on the bed but at the bottom and lying by the radiator (ie not getting any attention).  I do think jealousy of Mosi getting attention can be an issue, but Mosi was not getting any and Jaffa was.

I'm so frustrated because it's like he just whines for attention whenever he wants it and if I don't leap up and give him 100% attention, he sprays.  This morning he was actually getting attention so why go and spray?   Last time he did this was several months ago and it was in the living room.  I'd come in from work, given him some attention and then fed him.  Then I put on the tv and ignored him and so he sprayed.  I've always caught him in the act and before he gets much out so cleaning up isn't a huge problem, but today it was a pain as I can't pull the bed out without moving half the bedroom furniture - not really what I wanted to do at 6am!  This is why I had the problem with him crying during the night and was scared to ignore him.  He doesn't do that now and generally sleeps through until a reasonable hour, but it seems that unless I jump to attention the second he wants, he will show his displeasure in this way.  Any ideas as to how I can deal with this?  I don't have any feliway at the moment, but I'm not sure it's anxiety related.  It really does seem to be deliberate attention seeking.  Normally I would try to ignore attention seeking as I dont want to reward the behaviour.  But it's instinctive to respond when he's spraying and I really don't want to just ignore him and let him continue when he's doing it.   

He has done this about 6-7 times in the last 3 years or so it's not a regular thing, but it's often enough to  make me anxious every time he's mooching around.  I will now be scared every time he goes under the bed (he used to do it against the wardrobe so now I have magzines down there so that if he sprayed it wouldn't go on the carpet).