Topic: Wanted to see what popular opinion was in the UK on indoor vs outdoor cats.... (Read 20206 times)

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #85 on:** December 13, 2009, 20:26:55 PM »

I can't vote either, as none of them apply - I do allow my cats to go out, but not my fosters, although it does depend on the cat - the girls dont even come downstairs these days, never mind see the front door, Molly even spent all last summer chattering at birds from inside the house, although Zi came out the odd time. I couldn't keep Sam as an indoor only cat though, he sprays in front of you if he wants to go out and you refuse. He does wander and bully other cats though, and will also go in people's cars, hence his collar (the girls only wear them if they go outside). I have lived here for 8 years, and only known of 2 cats been hit by cars, one survived, one didn't, but I approved the one who didn't to adopt another cat from the rescue i volunteer for, as I still believe it is safe, and was just a tragic accident. I dont agree with people like my new neighbour who leaves her cat outside in all weathers, seemingly regardless of what the cat wants. I wont have a catflap though, cos of the cats that live round here, i only know of two that keep theirs indoor only.

Bazsmum · « **Reply #84 on:** December 11, 2009, 00:59:03 AM »

Voted! I really think its up to location, cats character etc....

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #83 on:** December 10, 2009, 21:11:49 PM »

They have a red squirrel sanctuary near Blundlesands in Lancs

Mark · « **Reply #82 on:** December 10, 2009, 21:09:42 PM »

We did that in conservation the other week. They are in Pockets - NE Scotland, Anglesey, Isle of Wight and a few other places.

Liz · « **Reply #81 on:** December 10, 2009, 20:50:26 PM »

We have an awful lot of red squirrels in our woods and also about a mile away we see them most days - not seen any grey ones since moving here so they are alive and kicking in the North east of Scotland

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #80 on:** December 10, 2009, 17:49:31 PM »

Ahhhhhhhhhhh right didnt know the origins of the Savannahas,

CoolCyberCats · « **Reply #79 on:** December 10, 2009, 17:45:03 PM »

Oh God that is sad!!

Serval are wild cats, but a Savannah is a cross between a Serval and Domestic cat. The F rating is generations removed from Serval, so higher the # the smaller the cat, till it is just about house cat size. Some breeders here will sell off the Servals when they are no loger good breeding age.

At least I have read of a few.

Quote from: Gill (sneakiefeline) on December 10, 2009, 17:37:41 PM

The poll is definately skewed cos it wasnt the right question for us with outdoor cats LOL

You will have to forgive my ignorance but thought Servals were wild cats?

The breeder shown on that site I believe has supplied bengals to Linda who breeds them and she has an F1 bengal I believe but he is neuatered,

She sadly lost her house in a fire this year and also one of her beautiful bengals, Minerva, such a tragedy

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #78 on:** December 10, 2009, 17:37:41 PM »

The poll is definately skewed cos it wasnt the right question for us with outdoor cats LOL

You will have to forgive my ignorance but thought Servals were wild cats?

The breeder shown on that site I believe has supplied bengals to Linda who breeds them and she has an F1 bengal I believe but he is neuatered,

She sadly lost her house in a fire this year and also one of her beautiful bengals, Minerva, such a tragedy

CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls · « **Reply #77 on:** December 10, 2009, 16:52:09 PM »

There was no option for me as I dont allow mine out- but would love it if they could go out safely, I think this could only happen in an ideal world. Sadly I have had to cat proof my garden for safety issues

Fire Fox · « **Reply #76 on:** December 10, 2009, 16:41:56 PM »

I'm fascinated by the results of the poll, not sure if it has been skewed by the fact that quite a few of us have posted by abstained?? Surely 30% of us don't think deaf or partially sighted cats should be allowed to roam free, or perhaps they mean should be allowed into a cat proofed garden or adopted to an isolated farm?

The problem then is that some rescue cats would never find a forever home - Noah is not suited to hard surfaces, other cats, dogs or children, so finding someone with grassed outside space but none of the above would be a real challenge.

Loving the rosetted Bengals.

Den · « **Reply #75 on:** December 10, 2009, 16:35:41 PM »

Troy is an F2

CoolCyberCats · « **Reply #74 on:** December 10, 2009, 16:32:59 PM »

Quote from: Sabrina (Auferstehen) on December 10, 2009, 16:27:19 PM

Main coons are around.

The only Serval I know is from http://www.gayzette-bengals.co.uk/html/serval.html

God! What a beautiful cat!

Out here you hear about people who raise bobcat kittens a lot and then when they grow they freak because they are so large and wild. You hear some real horror stories of them declawing and defanging them!

Sabrina (Auferstehen) · « **Reply #73 on:** December 10, 2009, 16:27:19 PM »

Main coons are around.

The only Serval I know is from http://www.gayzette-bengals.co.uk/html/serval.html

CoolCyberCats · « **Reply #72 on:** December 10, 2009, 16:21:24 PM »

Quote from: Den on December 10, 2009, 15:56:00 PM

Maine Coons are a popular breed here. Not sure how popular, but they aren't rare.

As for Savannahs and Servals - they are very rare and expensive. My friend (in Georgia) has a Savannah called Troy and he's gorgeous before you ask .. He's an indoor cat lol.

Was not going to ask.

Most breeders out here who sell Savannah's make you sign a contract that you will never let it out on it's own. Of course most good shelters make you sign that you will never declaw the adopted cat, but that does not stop people at all.

Any idea what F rating your friends Savannah is? I would LOVE to have an F1 near Serval size except I won't buy a cat from a breeder and will only take in strays and rescues. Ahh, but I can dream of the day a stray F1 somes to my door and decided to make a new home.

CoolCyberCats · « **Reply #71 on:** December 10, 2009, 16:13:25 PM »

Quote from: Tan on December 10, 2009, 15:19:38 PM

Quote from: CoolCyberCats on December 10, 2009, 15:10:00 PM
except in the fall as we have a few black bears that like to break the poles and feeders and take our trash.
I presume you let the bears have your trash!! I can just see you running after them in your dressing gown to get your trash back!

I have learned to take the big can into the garage at night from October to late November. This year I forgot once and found that one of the bags was removed and brought way up the mountain side where it was opened and there was trash all over. It took me quite a while to chase it all down.

Last year one snapped a 3"x3" post in half to bring a feeder down! So we also stop all bird feeding in the fall now.

Karon · « **Reply #70 on:** December 10, 2009, 15:59:27 PM »

Definitely red squirrels still in Scotland and the north west of England, and I think some in the NE too? I thought it wasn't just disease but also a general loss of habitat that was killing reds off too? I can't see the point in a grey cull for most of the country, reds won't move back if they haven't got anywhere suitable to live, but do understand the need to stop the greys encroaching on areas where the reds still live. We did have two red squirrels where I used to live (still in Shropshire) about 15 years ago but again, loss of habitat and the fact there only seemed to be two of them probably got them as there weren't many greys, either.

When we got our two oldest, as kittens, the plan (as I said on another thread) was to get an older cat and that would have been an indoor cat. Strange how plans go wrong - but I adore the two we've got (and one of them has now taken it upon himself to be a house cat anyway!).

Den · « **Reply #69 on:** December 10, 2009, 15:56:00 PM »

Maine Coons are a popular breed here. Not sure how popular, but they aren't rare.

As for Savannahs and Servals - they are very rare and expensive. My friend (in Georgia) has a Savannah called Troy and he's gorgeous

before you ask .. He's an indoor cat lol.

Claire_smc · « **Reply #68 on:** December 10, 2009, 15:33:55 PM »

There are a few reds dotted around the UK I think, I know a couple of parks I've been to have signs up stating that there are a couple, and if you spot them to ring a number so they can be trapped. They are massively endangered though. The grey squirrel is a massive pest, in fact there is talk of a huge cull of them with hopes of reintroducing the red squirrel. And then there's the black squirrel which is threatening both the reds and greys.... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-561946/The-pack-mutant-black-squirrels-giving-Britains-grey-population-taste-medicine.html

Feline Costumier · « **Reply #67 on:** December 10, 2009, 15:27:37 PM »

Just had to slope off to check my facts about the red squirrel but turns out I was right. We still have a fair few in scotland and apparently the Highlands are the place to be to spot them. Even if you don't spot the red squirrel, the surroundings will still be beautiful

Here is a list of places to spot them. No mention of the Isle of Wight though.

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/website/wildwoods.nsf/$$SearchMammal?Openform&OP=Mammals&PS=(FIELD+Form+Contains+AccessPoint+or+Forest+or+Wood)+AND+(FIELD+Mammals+Contains+Red+squirrel)

Edited to add that I think the grey squirrel is in fact now considered a pest here?

Tan · « **Reply #66 on:** December 10, 2009, 15:20:40 PM »

Quote from: Claire_smc on December 10, 2009, 15:13:53 PM

Yep, the grey squirrels were introduced from the US, and pretty much wiped out our native red squirrels as they brought over diseases which the reds couldn't cope with, and were also bigger and stronger so took all the food and the ladies away from the reds!

Is the Isle of Wight now one of the only places we have the reds?

Tan · « **Reply #65 on:** December 10, 2009, 15:19:38 PM »

Quote from: CoolCyberCats on December 10, 2009, 15:10:00 PM

except in the fall as we have a few black bears that like to break the poles and feeders and take our trash.

I presume you let the bears have your trash!!

I can just see you running after them in your dressing gown to get your trash back!

Claire_smc · « **Reply #64 on:** December 10, 2009, 15:13:53 PM »

Yep, the grey squirrels were introduced from the US, and pretty much wiped out our native red squirrels as they brought over diseases which the reds couldn't cope with, and were also bigger and stronger so took all the food and the ladies away from the reds!

Tan · « **Reply #63 on:** December 10, 2009, 15:13:27 PM »

Me again

I justed wanted to add. That think there isn't really a right and wrong and agree that it's down to each different cat personality and health also the area you live.

CoolCyberCats · « **Reply #62 on:** December 10, 2009, 15:13:12 PM »

Quote from: dolcetta46 on December 10, 2009, 13:03:42 PM

sorry I am not British, though I have lived there also in the Us (now living in Rome Italy for almost 7 years), maybe my opinion doesn't count but I would stick to this opinion wherever I may happen to live...

dolcetta46, It does not matter where you are, your opinion counts as much as anyones.

And yes, as you said, it is a personal choice. I never meant to tell people to not let out their cats. In the end people will and can do what they personally feel is best for their situation.

Rome? I would love to see Rome! I was born in Naples!

CoolCyberCats · « **Reply #61 on:** December 10, 2009, 15:10:00 PM »

Quote from: Pinkbear (Julie) on December 10, 2009, 11:22:18 AM

Actually we do have problems with introduced species in the UK such as Mink and the Grey Squirrel... what can I say? If only people had NEUTERED them before they turned their backs.

P.S. If you got Sparrows over there please can you send them back? The Carrion Crows (thriving due to increased human refuse scattered around) are eating all the chicks and we have very few Sparrows left. Not sure where the Carrion Crows came from though.

Wow, did the grey squirrels come from North America? The east here has tons of them! Out here there are some, but more red squirrels.

And English Sparrows? Oh, come get them! Sadly they were introduced (if I remember right) in Central Park NYC in the early or mid 1800's to help with some infestation I think. They took over and like Starling spread everywhere, having no natural preditors, and caused great harm to the native black bird populations. But, I admit I feed all the birds that come by our home with a lot of feeders, except in the fall as we have a few black bears that like to break the poles and feeders and take our trash.

CoolCyberCats · « **Reply #60 on:** December 10, 2009, 15:05:05 PM »

Quote from: Den + Memphis on December 10, 2009, 10:59:22 AM

That is fine. I myself like to believe there is no such thing as a dangerous dog .. only bad/dangerous owners. They are the muppets who would allow free roaming.

Referring to the question posed though.
I don't think a comparison could be made between the two. It is in the mindset of people here that cats can free roam and dogs can't. It is a way of life. All other pets are kept where they don't roam. I know what you are getting at, but it is one of those things that you aren't going to get an answer to. The best you are going to get is dog people will say no pet should free roam and cat owners who say cats should free roam and dogs shouldn't. Then you get everyone in-between and the ones who say dogs shouldn't be allowed out full stop, even with a lead and under control.

Hi again Den + Memphis,
Good response. I like it.

So, are their many Main coon, Savannah and Serval cats in the UK?

Tan · « **Reply #59 on:** December 10, 2009, 15:03:58 PM »

Quote from: Manc Cat on December 10, 2009, 14:18:03 PM

I think as long as the cats happy it does not matter, and my opinion is final and all that matters!!! lol

I wish Ronnie would decide which one he is as Im sicking of getting up to open the door!

But that's what we are here for ie Hoomans to serve cat at all times!!!

CoolCyberCats · « **Reply #58 on:** December 10, 2009, 15:00:05 PM »

Quote from: Den + Memphis on December 10, 2009, 10:14:13 AM

Can we please not go down the dogs are vicious creatures who maul people to death route.

Den + Memphis, I never meant to imply dogs are vicious at all. On the contrary, they can be wonderful and loving. Though like any animal owned, they will be shaped by how they are treated and trained. Sadly some people are just jerks and I am always so sad when I hear of animals having to be put to sleep because of how they were brought up or trained. I with the people who did that to them were put to sleep too sometimes.

CoolCyberCats · « **Reply #57 on:** December 10, 2009, 14:57:04 PM »

Quote from: 925dancer on December 10, 2009, 10:02:48 AM

Your own experience of being attacked by a cat is the only one I have ever heard of and cats also inflict a lot less damage than a dog. You don't here of people being mauled to death by cats do you?

I do know that that cat attack was rather rare, not meaning to imply it was common place. More that it can happen. And yes, a dog can do a lot more damage based from it's size. Though I did have to get some stitches and rabies shots after the cat attack. And I have no idea why that happened. Of course in my life I have been attacked by far more dogs, and strangly all 3 times were Irish Setters, which now give me the creeps.

Rosella moggy · « **Reply #56 on:** December 10, 2009, 14:41:43 PM »

I would agree with an option that said:

"I allow my cats outdoor access but believe other people should are perfectly entitled to deny such access to their cat in the interest of the cat"

Manc Cat · « **Reply #55 on:** December 10, 2009, 14:18:03 PM »

I think as long as the cats happy it does not matter, and my opinion is final and all that matters!!! lol

I wish Ronnie would decide which one he is as Im sicking of getting up to open the door!

Claire_smc · « **Reply #54 on:** December 10, 2009, 14:08:44 PM »

Quote

I think each cat is very different and there is no set rules you have to go along with and compromise on what the cat wants and what is best for them. I have had people comment on me our situation and how it is wrong, but I know my cats and what works for us

I'd say that this is the most important point when trying to decide on whether a cat should be indoors/outdoors. I could quite happily state that I think all cats should be kept indoors but I know that this isn't practical and it would be cruel for cats that are used to being freedom to go wherever they like, which is why I chose the first option. Although I think the best way is what most people here have been saying, cats that live mainly indoors, but are allowed out into a secure garden to have a bit of a sniff around, and enjoy the sunshine and the fresh air. Sometime in the future I hope to move to a house that has a nice little garden so I can try putting a harness on Pepsi and letting her have a wander around to see if she likes it, as stated in my previous post that isn't possible now but I don't think she's any worse off for it.

I'm still a little bit funny about letting cats go wherever they want, as it seems like there's so many risks out there, I'd be mad with worry all the time. I do kind of agree with the initial question of outdoor cats having a shortened lifespan, not from a natural life point of view, but from an accident based death kind of point. An outdoor cat is more likely to meet with a fatal accident, whether it's being hit with a car, picking up an illness from another animal, being attacked by a dog etc etc than an indoors only cat, so although if none of these things does happen, an outdoor cat's life may not be shortened, there is more chance of it's life being cut short unnaturally IYKWIM? Again though it's all down to the cat and what their wants and needs are. I'm not condemming cats being allowed to roam completely, as like I said I know that some cats would hate being cooped up all day and being denioed this freedom, it's just not for me

dolcetta46 · « **Reply #53 on:** December 10, 2009, 13:03:42 PM »

I would say the ideal situation is to have a cat proofed garden for them to safely play in the open fresh air, but if that's not possible they are much better off inside the safety of your own home. While the traffic and cars are the most obvious dangers, there are so many other possible perils out there, your puds going missing and never to be found, being poisoned by a malicious neighbour, attack by a loose dog or some other predators, getting in fights with other cats and sustaining serious injuries, coming in contact or eating god knows what out there and picking up illness (and possibly fatal), to mention a few. At the end of the day it is a personal choice, but I would never let my boy go roaming around out there by himself.

----------------------------

sorry I am not British, though I have lived there also in the Us (now living in Rome Italy for almost 7 years), maybe my opinion doesn't count but I would stick to this opinion wherever I may happen to live...

Susanne (urbantigers) · « **Reply #52 on:** December 10, 2009, 12:55:18 PM »

I ticked the first option because I don't feel it's safe to allow my cats outdoor access due to living near a busy road. I also live in a flat so it would be difficult (though not impossible) to get around the practicalities as I don't have my own front door. I don't think everyone should necessarily keep their cats indoors though. It depends on the cat and the locality. It's a balancing act between total safety and total freedom. I think cats benefit enormously from going outside and it isn't easy to take the decision to deprive them of the advantages of an outdoor life. It's also not easy to keep them happy indoors as it requires a lot of effort to provide anywhere near enough stimulation. But it can be done and I wouldn't feel happy letting my boys risk the dangers outside where I live so I have chosen to keep them as indoor cats. I'm happy with my decision and think that they are happy and contented cats. I'm sure they'd enjoy the outdoors (esp Mosi) but I dont' think they're unhappy with the life they have. In an ideal world I'd go for a cat proofed garden so that they could have some safe outdoor access.

Karon · « **Reply #51 on:** December 10, 2009, 12:10:10 PM »

Quote from: Pinkbear (Julie) on December 10, 2009, 11:22:18 AM

Quote
P.S. If you got Sparrows over there please can you send them back? The Carrion Crows (thriving due to increased human refuse scattered around) are eating all the chicks and we have very few Sparrows left. Not sure where the Carrion Crows came from though.

It's us in Shropshire, we have all the sparrows. They are in huge flocks where I keep the horses, hundreds of them.

I've done my share of neutering feral and farm cats, too, so they don't add to the population and problem of feral cats breeding. But the ferals I've adopted have been very useful in pest control and without yard cats I'd have suffered a lot more damage from rodents to horse feed and equipment.

Leanne · « **Reply #50 on:** December 10, 2009, 11:33:24 AM »

Quote from: 925dancer on December 10, 2009, 10:30:01 AM

Sorry Den, I perhaps didn't make my opinion clear. I love dogs and with the right owners are fantastic pets and creatures. Unfortunately there are cases where dogs can be dangerous and as we were asked for our opinions on dogs being allowed to roam, my reasons for them not being able to are for those that have been reared and treated incorrectly and through no fault of the dogs own, do become dangerous. This is as sad for the dog as for dog lovers but it is sadly something that happens far too often.

I agree with this too. I work for a dog charity and I am still very weary of dogs I don't know.

Pinkbear (Julie) · « **Reply #49 on:** December 10, 2009, 11:22:18 AM »

Quote

1. Non-native species not holding water. Well, perhaps not to you all there. I am not sure eon the history of introduction of a non-native species there, but here and in other places the consequences was the loss or almost total loss of a native species. In the USA I can think of a few that have been problematic, including the English Sparrow, Starlings, Kudzu, Buckthorn, asian muscles, Africanized bees and a lot more. Off the top of my head I believe Australia has a big problem with rabbits. There are some polar islands where cats were left when the post were abandoned and the came close to wiping out the native bird population. I do not fault the non-native animals for they are just living and surviving. I fault the people who introduced them, sometimes by mistake and others with intent to do something else. But history shows the introduction of species can devastate an area or animal population or country. How would you feel about the introduction of raccoons to the UK? I would bet over time it would cause a major problem. (since raccoons were native to North America I am assuming this has not been done there, at least I hope not) So my point is simply that in a more natural ecosystem the introduction of a foreign species can be very harmful in the long run.

Coolcybercats, you confused me there and perhaps I wasn't clear enough with my answer either. You said your opinion was not to allow cats outside because they are not native animals. You didn't state your concerns were about the problems of them breeding in uncontrolled conditions and 'escaping' from domestic situations that way.... well I volunteer a lot of my time and efforts in trapping, neutering and releasing feral and farm cats for Cats Protection. We have never subscribed to allowing unneutered cats out to mix with local animals and indeed without first being neutered. This is based on concerns for the cats and the suffering that ensues from an inadequate food source, lack of vet care, not enough safe shelter... not concerns for the local wildlife who, as you say, are most probably not 'native' in the first place.

Actually we do have problems with introduced species in the UK such as Mink and the Grey Squirrel... what can I say? If only people had NEUTERED them before they turned their backs.

P.S. If you got Sparrows over there please can you send them back? The Carrion Crows (thriving due to increased human refuse scattered around) are eating all the chicks and we have very few Sparrows left.

Not sure where the Carrion Crows came from though.

Den · « **Reply #48 on:** December 10, 2009, 10:59:22 AM »

That is fine. I myself like to believe there is no such thing as a dangerous dog .. only bad/dangerous owners. They are the muppets who would allow free roaming.

Referring to the question posed though.
I don't think a comparison could be made between the two. It is in the mindset of people here that cats can free roam and dogs can't. It is a way of life. All other pets are kept where they don't roam. I know what you are getting at, but it is one of those things that you aren't going to get an answer to. The best you are going to get is dog people will say no pet should free roam and cat owners who say cats should free roam and dogs shouldn't. Then you get everyone in-between and the ones who say dogs shouldn't be allowed out full stop, even with a lead and under control.

Karon · « **Reply #47 on:** December 10, 2009, 10:54:04 AM »

Ah, I didn't see the question about whether dogs should roam loose. Personally (having been prevented by going in my own front door by a neighbour's loose dog!) I'd say no - they are bigger, and therefore far more likely to inflict serious damage on someone if they did go for them. Of course, cats can cause injuries and I'd never dream of saying that all (or even most) dogs are likely to bite people but I think the potential for injury is greater with dogs than with cats. Also dogs hunt in a pack, and several loose dogs in an area would take on a pack mentality - that could cause problems with them attacking cats for a start. And, being a horse owner, the last thing I would want is to have loose dogs anywhere near my horses - it's bad enough coping with farm dogs.

LucynLuna · « **Reply #46 on:** December 10, 2009, 10:50:59 AM »

I am most certainly in the camp of cats should be allowed outside, however there are certain cats i.e injured/deaf/disabled/ill/very old or very timid that an indoor life may suit better.

It has always been my opinion that if you live in a flat without a garden or somewhere not appropriate to let cats out then one of the ones in the category above may suit best, I know I couldn't wait to be able to let mine out into the world so they could explore, have more room to play and act like a cats should

But that is just my opinion and don't wish to upset anyone with any other ideas

Author Topic: Wanted to see what popular opinion was in the UK on indoor vs outdoor cats.... (Read 20206 times)