What would you do ??

[Millys Mum]

4 wines Ela, is that bottles or glasses lol
As long as you can still open kitty food your safe!

I think all newly registered pets should be scanned especially when you think how many dogs & cats get stolen to order. Would help reunite so many.

[Ela]

(Can't get the hang of this quote business!)

Perhaos it is an age thing

[Ela]

Then it's a good job I'm known at my vets, as my cats aren't chipped!

You have to remember that of cats go missing it is not necessarily that YOUR vet would take the cats in.

[Ela]

Ela means when new pets are registered or seen for the first time.

Ela doesn't know what she means just now she has just had 4 wines with lunch.

[Millys Mum]

Ela means when new pets are registered or seen for the first time.
I keep forgetting to ask my practice if they do this.

[Hippykitty]

 l

Also remember that more and more people are adopting cats/kittens that are chipped and many others are getting their cats/kittens chipped. I understand a few vets are now startingnowadays  to scan every cat/dog that comes into the surgery to confirm ownership.

Then it's a good job I'm known at my vets, as my cats aren't chipped!

(Can't get the hang of this quote business!)

[Ela]

will stick a note on his collar

A wise decision. I always remember one of mums cat, She had everything her heart desired however, as she got older she became very thin, the vet confirmed that nothing was wrong just old age, but if anyone had seen her they would have though she was neglected. You cannot always tell. Having said that I think if you do think a cat is a stray or neglected we need to find out for sure and not just assume it has a home.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Ela has a point Lisa - you can't just take a cat to the vets and immediately get it de-flead and wormed, for all you know, it could have been done days before, in which case you could be making it ill. And if you dont know it's being treated, you could end up making it seriously ill - sometimes feeding what you think is a stray could have that effect on them, so you do have to be very careful. Sometimes having a word with an owner does have an effect, sometimes it doesnt - I have dealt with both, and with the owner that wouldnt' listen, I had to watch a cat suffer as this law wasn't in, they lived too close and the cat was an ex-feral who didn't like humans, so even if I could have figured out a way to sneak her out, finding someone who would take on a 17yo who wasn't human or cat friendly wasn't going to be easy. And the neighbours had what they thought were valid reasons for not going to the vet with her.

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

Still not seen Pumpkin !

He does do this from time to time (disappear) but as soon as he shows up again i will stick a note on his collar

[Baggy]

this means you are going to have to speak to the owner and he must do something about it, if not report him or you could advise him what you know and offer to take ownership if he does not want to cover the vets bills etc.

I know all situations are difficult and all different but this is really sensible advice, and exactly the kind of advice I got from you all on CatChat about the Proot, so thanks!  We kept talking to the Proots "owners" before we took him on officially even though things were really tense with them - nobody likes the suggestion they might not be looking after their cat properly.  We made them feel that taking him on was their idea although we had to bite our tongues at times.  As a result, we got a gorgeous cat to look after, he got the care he needed, and they learned the difference between feline dementia and hyperthyroid problems, which has got to be a good thing for their other old cat.

dont call helping a cat out whos not being looked after "underhand anyway"

All I am saying is you would have to know for sure.....Later I found it had an owner and was much loved and the owner had taken it to the vets as well. As you know certain medications for certain conditions if doubled could kill the cat.

Our family cat, Cheeky, was ill with CRF and diabetes for about 18 months before she died.  She didn't look pretty or well in her last few months but she was on daily medication and we adored her - we still let her out because she was an ex-feral and loved being outside, and if anyone had taken action without letting us know she would have become very poorly very quickly.
I agree you need to find out as much as you can before you act even if it's difficult because the cat looks to be in a poor way.

[Ela]

no doubt a certain someone would report me

I am sure if there was a cat in genuine need everyone would be happy for someone to help it.

[Ela]

dont call helping a cat out whos not being looked after "underhand anyway"

All I am saying is you would have to know for sure. I myself many, many years ago fed a cat for ages and when it had a bad eye took it to the vets, Later I found it had an owner and was much loved and the owner had taken it to the vets as well. As you know certain medications for certain conditions if doubled could kill the cat.

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

I aint considering doing anything underhand

but ur right id not post it here no coz no doubt a certain someone would report me 


i dont call helping a cat out whos not being looked after "underhand anyway"

[Ela]

id take it to a vet and get it checked over defleaed n wormed

If the vet knew it had an owner and you had no authority then the vet would not treat.

  then depending on the cat (wheather it would b happy with other cats and a dog) id either bring the cat up myself and look after it or id ring the cpl or rspca and ask them to rehome it (least it would have a chance of a half decent home that way ) 

 You would not necessarily know if the cat got on with cats and dogs immediately.

CP and RSPCA always have lists of cats waiting to come in so it would not be an immediate thing. Also if they knew you had borrowed the cat they would not be able to take in anyway.

If you are considering doing anything underhand you would not post it anywhere even on here for all the world to see. Also remember that more and more people nowadays are adopting cats/kittens that are chipped and many others are getting their cats/kittens chipped. I understand a few vets are now starting to scan every cat/dog that comes into the surgery to confirm ownership.

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

Id take the law in to my own hands if i knew of a cat that wasnt being cared for properly ,
id take it to a vet and get it checked over defleaed n wormed and then depending on the cat (wheather it would b happy with other cats and a dog) id either bring the cat up myself and look after it or id ring the cpl or rspca and ask them to rehome it (least it would have a chance of a half decent home that way ) 

[Ela]

According to the Defra link I read (it's on the Animal Welfare reforms thread), anyone, not just the RSPCA, can take action if they feel an animal is being neglected

I have not read it all yet, but no reason to doubt it is there if you say so. However, you would have to be pretty sure  and almost know for sure it is not on any treatment already. Also you would need to take the pet to the vet immediately to prove your case otherwise I think you would be skating on very think ice and possibly  be done for theft.

[Hippykitty]

According to the Defra link I read (it's on the Animal Welfare reforms thread), anyone, not just the RSPCA, can take action if they feel an animal is being neglected. Maybe this is one of the faults of the law? Or it could be a loophole for Michelle.

[Ela]

Wouldn't the new laws make it legal for Michelle to take over the care of this cat?

No, you cannot just taken someones cat because you think it is not being cared for. One needs to go through the proper channels.

Say you had a cat who was not looking  the best of health, but if was receiving vet care and being fed properly. How would you feel if someone picked it up and took it way because they thought it looked neglected or ill? Also it may not then get the medication is needs and a few missed medications could cost its life.

[Hippykitty]

Wouldn't the new laws make it legal for Michelle to take over the care of this cat?

[CurlyCatz]

but then again yes he could have fiv or felv which we all know can cause cancer..in any case alls cats could get cancer anyway which normally causes quick weight loss, if hes around that age it could very well be his thryroid though but i'll stop there coz the list is endless ... either way i think you are right to be concerened and this cat needs veterinary attention.

this means you are going to have to speak to the owner and he must do something about it, if not report him or you could advise him what you know and offer to take ownership if he does not want to cover the vets bills etc.

[Ela]

Just thought, if he was FIV positive could that be why he is loosing weight ?

Not necessarily, as you know we have a FIV unit and most of the FIV cats you really cannot tell by looking at them. Some of them look healthier than me.

Chances are he does have FIV as he was an un-neutered cat until then![

Although it is wise to get males neutered at a young age for other reasons apart from FIV, by no means are all or most of  the late neuters FIV, my goodness if they were we would be in dire straights. We take in loads of neutered toms who are Neg thankfully.

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

Update

Havent seen Pumpkin for a couple of weeks (he will be back though)

Lynn,
when i spoke to the owner he said Pumpkin (or Indie as he calls him) was 9yrs old and that was last year.
Chances are he does have FIV as he was an un-neutered cat until then!

I have wormed and flead him for the last couple of months or i doubt the weight loss and over eating is done to worms.

Just thought, if he was FIV positive could that be why he is loosing weight ?

As soon as he turns up again i will put another collar on him with my phone number again

[Hippykitty]

As his owners had a "it's just a cat" approach, I would assume they either didn't care or need educating. It doesn't seem that this cat is being taken to the vet when necessary.
It would be nice to hear an update from Michelle.

[Desley (booktigger)]

No, they probably arent, but there are better ways of getting around it - especially on the legal side for Michelle, would hate her to get into trouble for catnapping one of her neighbours cats!!

[CurlyCatz]

yes i suppose you are both right, just doesnt sound like they are very caring given the original condition michelle got him in 

[Desley (booktigger)]

I agree with Ela that shutting the cat in and pleading dumb truly isn't teh best way to go about things, talking to the owners would be the best thing - I had to do that last year, turned out they had thought their cat was thin due to age (15ish), I explained that there is normally a health condition involved, and was stopped a month or so later in the streets by his owner who told me they had taken him and he did have a thyroid prob. Admittedly not everyone will take notice, but it is the best option than effectively catnapping - and while it would help Pumpkin, they might just go out and do the same to another cat.

[Ela]

does the owner know where you live ?? if not i'd shut pumkin in and make him an indoor cat and plead dumb !!

A huge risk Lynn when Michelle has already overstepped the mark (in the owners eyes). This time if she did something and the owner did find out he/she may not be so forgiving.

I know so often we are told about neglected cats and so often they really aren't. It is just that many cat lovers are pedantic (not a bad thing), when in reality the cat is fine and happy in its own home.  Only this week I know for a fact someone borrowed a cat because they thought it neglected. They took it to the vet it had a MOT full bloods, x/ray and scan there is absolutely nothing wrong with the cat is it is in purrfect condition. Now the person does not know what to do as the cat has been shaved to take the bloods.

[CurlyCatz]

does the owner know where you live ?? if not i'd shut pumkin in and make him an indoor cat and plead dumb !!

Re the thryroid..how old do you reckon pumkin is ??  I thought since he wasnt neutered he'd be fairly youngish ? but ive never seen a cat with hyperthyroidism in a cat under 7 or 8 ish years old and that cat was classed as being very young for it.

If he's losing weight/skinny but eats loads and is well wormed (drontal every month ?) then i'd be taking him to the vets for blood testing anyway and getting fiv/felv done esp as he was obviously a late neuter.

[Ela]

I understand your catch 22 scenario; but surely the owner (if they can be so called) is neglecting the cat in the first place. Doesn't this give Michelle some grounds to take over its care?

Sadly not. If you saw a neglected child in the street you would not think Oh! I will take that child  and look after it, would you? You may want to but it is not the right thing to do. The only legal thing that can be done is to have a word with the RSPCA Inspector once Michelle find out again where the owner lives. It could be that the owner is quite aware there may be a problem and the cat is already receiving treatment. I have known of  a cat that was on treatment for thyroid probs, a neighbour who thought she knew better took the cat and handed it to a rescue as a stray. The rescue took the cat to the vets for testing, as you know the test needs to be sent away and it usually takes 5 days for the results to come back. Anyway by the time the rescue had taken the cat to the vets and the results had come back the cat was dead as it had not been having its medication. The owner had been frantically looking for the cat and had actually asked the neighbour and expressed her concerns about the missed medication, Yet the neighbour still did not come clean and her actions lead to the cats early death.

[Hippykitty]

I understand your catch 22 scenario; but surely the owner (if they can be so called) is neglecting the cat in the first place. Doesn't this give Michelle some grounds to take over its care? This isn't my area of cat-care, but its an interesting and distressing predicament for the poor cat.

[Ela]

Did you take the cat to have his thyroid checked then pass the bill to his 'owners'? What was their reaction?

If you know a cat has an owner then you cannot do that, as you could be prosecuted. Indeed the vet would also be in big trouble, The only way you may get aways with it is if you say the cat is a stray, then of course you would not be able to pass the bill on to the owner.

In this case Michelle would not get away with it again as the owner knows she knows the cat has an owner.

[Hippykitty]

Did you take the cat to have his thyroid checked then pass the bill to his 'owners'? What was their reaction?

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

Why were they so annoyed that you neutered him? 

Well i spoke to the man and he was prob one of these stupid men that "love their bits and pieces too much" (like all men so lol) so didnt want his cat to loose his 

[Cheesecat]

Why were they so annoyed that you neutered him? 

[Baggy]

He is here most days but always wants to go out early evening and then he is back here in the morning. (he has just come in now, eaten 3 pouches of food and is now on sons bed asleep bless him)
His owners only live a couple of roads away and he is 10yrs old so he knows where he lives !

This sounds quite similar to what happened with the Proot - except he didn't go home at night and only lived 3 doors away!
As you're on speaking terms with them and they have the "it's just a cat" attitude I agree it sounds like a good idea to offer to take him to the vet for them (you could always say one of yours is going for a routine check up so they don't take offence) so at least you know what's going on.
We waited a whole month not knowing if the Proot had been to the vet or not after we initially tackled the neighbours, I wish now we'd offered to take him for them as it took them a full month to get him treated  .

You may well find them offering you a cat 

...and that's what happened to us afterwards....

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

He could gladly live with me but he goes home lol

He is here most days but always wants to go out early evening and then he is back here in the morning. (he has just come in now, eaten 3 pouches of food and is now on sons bed asleep bless him)

His owners only live a couple of roads away and he is 10yrs old so he knows where he lives !

I will try and get in contact with them , i am happy to pay for the vet treatment and will even fund the tablets (if it is thyroid)

[Mark]

It sounds like Thyroid to me as well - I would be surprised if they have done anything for him. If they call, you could suggest it to them and tell them you will bring the bill round for the treatment. You may well find them offering you a cat 

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

awwww poor cat
if the owner dont give 2  about him then if i was u id take over .

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

Is there any reason who you cannot put a paper collar on him now?

Ok i will buy a collar and put it on him, he goes home at night (well i think he does coz he isnt here!) so hopefully they would contact me quiet quickly

[Ela]

new flea collar on him

If he has a flea collar on he should certainly not have a flea treatment as well that is extremely dangerous.

Is there any reason who you cannot put a paper collar on him now?