A healthy diet for our cats ?

[CurlyCatz]

herbal essence shampoo then the conditioner makes my dogs coat lovely too lol

[Lindyloo]

Hello Swampmaxmum,
Yes the shampoo made my dog's coat lovely and glossy and smelt nice too.
Burns is another natural pet food similar to Denes but I think they only make dry food no tinned.
I haven't tried it because I am happy with Denes.
Lynn

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Has anyone heard of Orijen dry food?

Zooplus sell it but I've never noticed it before as I don't usually bother looking at the dry foods since my boys are mostly wet food eaters.  But someone pointed it out so I took a look.  It's grain free and contains 75% meat.  Mine don't eat very much dry at all and I'm pretty happy with JWB for what Mosi eats but I might still try this when I next order something from zooplus.  There are always times when I need to leave food in auto feeders and if it's hot weather I don't like to leave wet down for too long.   I'm also interested in the texture since it's grain free.


http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/dry_cat_food/orijen

[swampmaxmum]

I I did try therir dog shampoo which is great.

Did it make your hair nice and glossy and shiny?   

thanks for the info on Felidae. I will try it one of these if the l/d goes too sticky to eat (currently sticking to his teeth like peanut butter and he even tries to clean his mouth with his paw....horrible....vet not sure if I can add any oil to it - prob not - water just makes it runnier but just as sticky).

What's Burns please?

[Lindyloo]

I think Denes reccommend their Older Cat recipe for liver/kidney problems. All their products are free from preservatives, flavourings/salt I beleive but have added herbs. There is a detailed analysis of ingredients on their website and there is a lots of info about health problems on their website
They also supply various herbal remedies but I have not used them myself. I did try therir dog shampoo which is great.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

I don't think that either felidae or denes are specifically for cats with liver or kidney problems, and I don't know if they'd be suitable. 

This is what it says about the felidae original.

Multi-Meat, All Natural Formula for All Life Stages. Rich in Antioxidant Vitamins and Amino Acid Chelated Minerals.

FELIDAE® Chicken, Turkey, Lamb & Fish formula is formulated to meet the AAFCO Cat Nutrient Profiles for all life stages.

Benefits
Natural Skin and Coat Conditioners
Balanced Omega 6 & 3 Fatty Acids
Cranberries for Urinary Tract Health
Essential Taurine for Feline Health

Calculated Caloric Content
ME (kcal/kg) 1215
ME (kcal/per 13.2 oz. can) 442
ME (kcal/per 5.5 oz. can) 188

All Natural Ingredients


Chicken, Turkey, Chicken Broth, Chicken Liver, Herring (Source of Omega 3), Lamb, Brown Rice, Eggs, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Dicalcium Sulfate, Potassium Chloride, Guar Gum, Flax Seed Oil (Source of Omega 3) Choline Chloride, Salt, Kelp, Cranberries, Rosemary Extract, Carrageenan, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Taurine, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Niacin, Lecithin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydro-chlride, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Sodium Selenite.

[Desley (booktigger)]

I know Burns is suitable for cats with liver and kidney probs, dont know about the other two. They shouldnt need extra taurine if it is a complete diet though

[swampmaxmum]

sorry to hijack the thread but are either of Denes of Felidae suitable for cats with liver disease or kidney disease?
how much taurine do cats with these need a day pls?

My french bought l/d is very sticky and apparently changes in texture are caused by temperature changes so by the summer I may have to think yet again.
How palatable are the foods and is there a detailed ingredient list?
(sorry PC overheating so websurfing is limited to 10 mins at a time until it's fixed; would do a websearch otherwise).

[Millys Mum]

Oooooo Felidae!!
I was wanting some of that ages ago but couldnt get my hands on any. I just ordered from Zooplus but i shall take a look...

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

I think PAH sell Denes - some varieties at least.  I know I've looked at it but can't remember why I didn't buy it.  Think it might have been low meat content in the ones I looked at.  Will take another look next time I'm there.

[Lindyloo]

Denes have a website which is worth a look - it gives advice on natural remedies and diet. They make varieties of food that are beef free or cereal free for cats who are allergic. They also make dog food which my dog loves.
Lynn

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Someone on another forum has posted a link to a german supplier of holistic, grain free cat food.  It sells felidae, natures variety prairie and greenfish foods which the poster personally recommends.  The forum is primarily a US forum and these brands are often mentioned as premium foods, but as far as I know are unavailable in the UK.   This supplier now ships to the UK.   I was going to order some stuff from zooplus this weekend but I think I'll look into ordering some stuff from here instead now to check it out.  Will let you know how I get on.

https://ssl.kundenserver.de/www.cats-country.co.uk/sess/utn;jsessionid=15461cd8f13d4af/shopdata/index.shopscript

[Gillian Harvey]

I've read all of this with great interest and some guilt as my kitties' diet is mostly tinned catfood, with the odd meal of cooked meat (chicken, heart, liver etc).

 But another site stated that cooking meat destroys a lot of taurine (reduces it to about a third of its original amount) so what to do? what to do? 

Hi Catjane, yest its right that cooking does deplete taurine levels, not completely, but probably to below levels that a cat requires. Raw meat is also easier for a cat to digest than cooked, but if you are happier feeding a fresh cooked diet, then you can always add taurine to the meal. I even add taurine when feeding raw, because processing (i.e. mincing) and storage, such as freezing, can also deplete taurine. I buy the NOW brand from this site http://good4you.co.uk/store.asp - it doesnt have any other ingredients apart from the taurine, which you have to watch with some brands of taurine, coz they add all sorts of other stuff in!

[CurlyCatz]

catjane i agree with what millys mum said and if you make sure the meat offered is very fresh and not left in bowl for hours on end i dont think most cats would have a problem.

With regard to bones again in the wild they will eat bones and fur etc but i am like you and would be wary..through previous discussions i'd say that many cats get raw chicken wings / chicks/ mice etc and seem to do very well on them without problems, personally i wouldnt give the other bones of a carcase that perhaps dont have so much cartlige in them and may splinter more easily..one thing for sure NEVER GIVE COOKED BONES of any type as they are brittle and splinter very easlily.

For me personally i feed commercial pet foods both wet and dry and within the past year i have discovered how much my cats love raw chicken so they get this as a treat when i am preparing chicken for tea anyway and have off cuts, take last night for example cody has a fair bit of raw chicken but i then didnt give him his normal wet food (the bulk of his diet is his dried food anyway)

[Millys Mum]

Iv tried Denes, i cant remember why i didnt buy it again, possibly not enough meat in it.

Catjane: the feline digestive system is a lot stronger than ours and also moves things through alot quicker. Im not saying that cats cant get things like Salmonella etc because i know of a few but its not such a risk to them like it is us. They are designed to eat it!

Chicken bones (or any other type) are dangerous if cooked, raw wings are fine 

[Desley (booktigger)]

i have seen it but never tried it, it always seemed quite pricey (although that was before I started spending more money on cat food) - there is only one supplier in my area I have ever found though, and one that until I got the car I couldnt' use.

[Catjane]

I've read all of this with great interest and some guilt as my kitties' diet is mostly tinned catfood, with the odd meal of cooked meat (chicken, heart, liver etc).

I found myself resolving to feed them raw meat, but one thing was nagging me ... what about meat disease?  I did a google search for 'salmonella' and this is what I found:  http://www.healthypet.com/library_view.aspx?ID=121&sid=1  (sorry, I haven't worked out how to post proper URLs yet )

Now, I know that that link is an American site, but even so, I know that we do get Salmonella in the UK too.  But another site stated that cooking meat destroys a lot of taurine (reduces it to about a third of its original amount) so what to do? what to do? 

I've also been told that chicken bones should never be fed to cats, but this is advocated in the raw meat diet!

Does anyone have any answers here?  Seems it's almost impossible to feed our cats what they need!

[Ela]

Has anyone used Denes cat food.

I have and my cats love it, although I don't see it very often round here.

[Lindyloo]

Has anyone used Denes cat food. I swear by it. I have been using it for years (about 20 years I think).
They make kitten, adult & Senior tinned plus bix called Options. It is quite bland compared to most brands so cats sometimes do not take to it if they are used to something like Felix or Whiskas.
When I fostered rescue kittens I always fed stray kittens on it and they never got "the runs". If kittens came in with a dietary upset tum I just fed them Denes kitten food and it cleared up. I also had a cat once with a serious digestive problem  - Denes was the only food she could eat without getting the most horrendous diarrhoea.
Worth a try if you have a cat that suffers with tummy/allergy problems. For it to work you have to feed them just on Denes absolutely nothing else.
Lynn

[Gillian Harvey]

That's funny you should say that about minced up raw, Gillian as the premade I give mine is minced and tbh they aren't overly keen on it.  They do eat it all up and lick the bowl clean but they eat it slower than a lot of their food and dont' attack it with the enthusiasm they do raw chunks of meat. 

I bought premade pet mince and they wouldnt eat it! It kinda defrosts watery, they like human beef mince tho 

Yes, to be honest I think there is a world of difference in the quality of the meat in the pre-made raw minces and the fresh human minces you can buy at the supermarket, and I found that too Millys Mum - that they are watery when they defrost. Mine like human beef/lamb minces too, so I sometimes give them those and add in some calcium.

[Millys Mum]

I bought premade pet mince and they wouldnt eat it! It kinda defrosts watery, they like human beef mince tho 

Mosi sounds like my Milly, its taken her 12 months to learn how to eat cooked meats and is now starting on small cubes of raw!  Sad really that our cats dont know how to chew!

Simon took to it like a duck to water and can now destroy a chicken wing in minutes 

[Desley (booktigger)]

I must try chicken wings now - couldn't do it before, as Ginger had no teeth - yet he was the one who preferred raw food. Can't remember what Tiger thought of it, so might get some kidney or heart at weekend and see. I do have a lack of freezer space though.

[Paws]

I feed my cats Yarrah- wet and dry- which is totally organic and is 50% meat. They seem to my prefer it to whiskas etc that they used to eat. It does cost more though...

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

That's funny you should say that about minced up raw, Gillian as the premade I give mine is minced and tbh they aren't overly keen on it.  They do eat it all up and lick the bowl clean but they eat it slower than a lot of their food and dont' attack it with the enthusiasm they do raw chunks of meat.  Interestingly, when I first started giving them raw pieces of meat Jaffa couldn't cope with anything bigger than about half an inch square.  If it was bigger he'd try but end up just looking at it not sure what to do with it.  I gradually gave him bigger pieces and now he happily tears into a chunk an inch and a half by an inch.  It's like he's learning how to be a predator!  Mosi can only cope with small pieces at the moment.

[Gillian Harvey]

Yep, I feed all my lot raw, but mainly chunks and whole prey - such as mice and chicks, as opposed to the raw minces. The only problem I see with those minces on that BARF site, is that there is nothing for cats to work their teeth on if everything is minced up. They are quite a good idea as a 'convenience' raw diet, but I'd want to feed bigger chunks of meat/bones as well. Have a look at this site as well Nick http://www.rawfedcats.org/ - it goes into why minced up isnt ideal and gives you an insight into feeding even more naturally.

Commercial petfoods bears little resembalance to meat, nor even contain that much meat in many cases! The food is so over-processed that there are hardly any natural vitamins/minerals etc left in them - so the manufacturers then have to ensure they ADD BACK IN all the vital nutriients that disappered in processing - crazy! Why do that, when you could, at the very basic, give your cat a juicy piece of meat on edible bone that has all those vital nutrients still there!!

Are you going to try those BARF diets Nick?

[Millys Mum]

There have been posts on raw beef and liver but probably where a post has digressed!
http://www.chaptanservices.com/purrs/index.php?topic=1071.0

I feed my lot raw and meatier pet foods like natures menu & hi life. The chicken wings always go down a treat as they enjoy dragging them around and growling, they act like a pack of big cats and thoroughly enjoy it.
This website is a good read http://www.catnutrition.org/pictorial.html they did a nutritional breakdown at a lab to compare their diet to that of canned cat food standards:
http://www.catnutrition.org/nutritionbreakdown.html

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

There are a few on here who feed primarily raw - Gillian (Ambercat) for one.  I feed the occasional raw meal (premade raw) and give snacks of raw meat but I decided against going totally raw because it's so hard to do properly and there aren't a lot of premade raw foods available over here.  I dont' really have the kitchen space and fridge/freezer storage room to go 100% raw and I don't want them getting so used to raw that they won't eat anything else as that would make it hard when they go to the cattery.  I do think it's a healthy option provided you can get good quality meat and the cats like it and you make sure you provide a balanced diet.  Like Desley, I try to feed commercial foods with a high meat content and without artificial additives.

[Desley (booktigger)]

I dont think we have mentioned it since we moved actually - I debated with a raw diet, but would struggle too much, so I just stick to high meat content foods like HiLife and NAtures Menu. I dont feed my own cats proprierty pet foods, but they have to include all the necessary stuff or our cats would be very ill, as when they were first brought out, they didn't realise the importance of taurine and a lot of cats became ill. That said, I do think that dry food is contributing to diabetes and obesity in cats. Good luck with it Nick, and do keep us informed.

[Nick (Peanut & Boo)]

I came across this natural diet the other day and it was a real revelation to me. I did a search on Purrs but found no previous discussion so apologies if I missed anything.
Its the BARF pet diet  http://www.barfworld.com/html/learn_more/processed.shtml

After reading an excellent book on cat behaviour by R TaborI have for the past two years decided to feed my 2x muppets on natural food as far as is possible. I became really disaillusioned with packet and sachet pet foods often throwing away half of it. I could no longer eat quality tasty healthy natural foods myself and then feed my cats a mushy non discript coloured flavoured sludge of indeterminate content.
 We have all accepted for years that proprietary pet foods are healthy for our pets and include all the necessary daily  minerals, vitamins and elements required  for our pets nutritional health but do we ever really question this !???  After all who is it that claims these foods are the best option for our pets ?  well surprise surprise it is the pet food manufacturers and retailers !...


 I decided to start feeding my cats mainly on natural foods. This is not an easy direction as it is undoubtably considerably more expensive and still very contoversial. Its important to do a lot of research on your pets nutritional requirements as some foods we eat are quite poisenous and toxic to our pets even in very small quanties. (ie Dark chocolate) but I am convinced that natural foodstuffs are it  the only healthy and natural diet for our pets.The acid test is that none of the natural foods I feed my cats is left Its all completly consumed and they are very healthy cats.
 I'd be interested in other views on this subject.