Feral Cat with Kittens! Need Advice Please

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Wow you are certainly going to be busy and what gorgeous little kittens 

[bonnielass]

What gorgous little bundles of fur you certainly have your hands full now but im sure they will come on in leaps and bounds

[HaneyHarperIndyMum (Val)]

Thank you so much everyone for all your advice.  I am feeling a bit more comfortable with caring for my feral mummy cat and kittens. 

You won't believe what happened to me yesterday!   I had to take my dog into the vet's yesterday.  The staff all know me down there and my vet even gives me a reduced rate to spay and neuter my domestic rescue cats and kittens.  Love my vet! Well, one of the vet techs was so glad to see me, because she had a litter of 5 feral kittens in her garden who's mother had not returned for them.  This lady had known that the feral cat had her kittens in her garden for weeks now and was setting food out for the mummy cat.  Then last Friday, the feral mummy cat did not return to her kittens.  So after waiting for the mummy cat to return for over 24 hours, this lady decided to take the kittens into her home and begin syringe feeding them KMR.   By Tuesday, this vet tech lady realized that she could not care or keep the kittens and she knew I had an appointment with the vet that morning.  So when I walked in to the office, she asked me to take them home with me.  Good Grief!  I now have 5 more feral kittens who appear to be about 5 weeks old.  They are taking KMR very well with the syringe and this morning I mixed some wet kitten food with a bit of KMR to see if they would eat from a dish.  Yippee, three of them lapped it up!  The kittens are adorable!!  There is one orange tabby and four Siamese looking kittens.  What are the odds that I would have 9 feral kittens and a feral mummy cat all in one week! lol    

Sadly, the lady thinks that the mummy cat may have been killed by a coyote since she lives by a canyon with wildlife.

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

I've not read the whole thread but have read Angies post and would agree about the cage set up.  Personally I always leave kittens with the mum until they are weaned properly........they have more chance of going downhill if taken away too early and if still feeding mainly off mum, she will be full of milk making her more susceptible to infection as there's no babies to feed off her, at least when kittens are weaning, she can dry up gradually.  I've had a few naughty mum's in and yes they are scarey but it's adviseable to leave mums with babies until they are at least 8 weeks.......when the kittens get a little older, they will be more inquisitive, I usually start letting them out a little when they get to this stage and start handling them, this can usually be done at about 4 weeks so they get used to you, I had some in the other week and it took me a few attempts before I could sneak the kittens out without being attacked by mum   

[Millys Mum]

just to say mm - I personally don't like ear tipping. The ones I've seen around here have almost half an ear missing. I prefer to chip while being done and if you want a visual sign shave off a panel of fur - it will only last a month or two being the downside but at least it doesn't disfigure the cat.

OK, I know I'm shallow!

Its excessive to take half an ear  my lot lose about a cm and they heal very quickly, how do you manage to scan the real wild ones onsite to let them go again?

[HaneyHarperIndyMum (Val)]

What a great story and such a beautiful kitty!  I love the picture!  Looks like a nice place to rest to me, all comfy and warm!  One of the feral kittens I have has been named Hope!

[Liz]

Just to give all you feral cat lovers hope -

This is Miss ragamuffin she is now 9 and came to us 14 months ago feral to boot - she has now been to the vet had all her injections and her ID chip and now at least likes human company on her terms but add a fluffy cat to a radiator bed with teh heat on and I have one happy little lady I also have her Mother who is 15 and a right old lady cat and her brother to!

[HaneyHarperIndyMum (Val)]

also to say i also have joined up two pens before now. the one being the sleeping area and the other the litter tray and food compartment for easy access.

as in piccies at start of thread

http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,25300.50.html

Wow!  What a beautiful feral cat!  Thanks for the piccies of joining the two cages together.  I think I will give that a go.  Seems like the best solution here and it would give feral mum plenty of space to move about.  

When it comes to tipping the ear, the "Feral Cat Coalition" here has been helping us with some free spaying and neutering so we really don't have a choice as this is their policy to tip the ear.  I do like the idea of tagging better.   It's the 5 months and younger kittens that my rescue has been spaying and neutering at our cost.  Therefore we are not tipping the ears of these younger kittens in hopes of socializing them and getting them adopted into loving forever homes.

[Janeyk]

just to say mm - I personally don't like ear tipping. The ones I've seen around here have almost half an ear missing. I prefer to chip while being done and if you want a visual sign shave off a panel of fur - it will only last a month or two being the downside but at least it doesn't disfigure the cat.

OK, I know I'm shallow!

Ours are all ear-tipped but only the tip infact sometimes it's been hard to tell which have been done and which haven't.

thats what i thought it would be like but the last two I've seen it has been the top half 

that's seems a bit harsh/needless

[Angiew]

just to say mm - I personally don't like ear tipping. The ones I've seen around here have almost half an ear missing. I prefer to chip while being done and if you want a visual sign shave off a panel of fur - it will only last a month or two being the downside but at least it doesn't disfigure the cat.

OK, I know I'm shallow!

Ours are all ear-tipped but only the tip infact sometimes it's been hard to tell which have been done and which haven't.

thats what i thought it would be like but the last two I've seen it has been the top half 

[Angiew]

the older kitties of my feral are taming down very well, though they are used to being fed by the lady. They are between 4 or 5 months - i can now get 3 of the 4 to purr and two actively join in being fussed so i am very hopeful of them being domestic - albeit to quieter homes with people who will understand how to bring them on.

[Janeyk]

just to say mm - I personally don't like ear tipping. The ones I've seen around here have almost half an ear missing. I prefer to chip while being done and if you want a visual sign shave off a panel of fur - it will only last a month or two being the downside but at least it doesn't disfigure the cat.

OK, I know I'm shallow!

Ours are all ear-tipped but only the tip infact sometimes it's been hard to tell which have been done and which haven't.  They have also been released either very late that night or the day after and have always returned at the latest the day after for food and continued returning they have all been fine.

[HaneyHarperIndyMum (Val)]

Yes we had the adult feral cats ears tipped too.  The ferals that were less than 5 months old, we did not have their ears tipped.  It is the hoped that those younger than 5 months can be socialized and adopted into loving homes.  That is what the lady who owns the rescue said.  Truthfully I wonder about that even being possible?  What do you think?

if you can can Mum get out for a little while to somewhere else in the room so you can see to the crate - we ended up letting a feral Mum out for a while and she became a different cat in fact Miss Diva is still with us and is now a Daddies girl - looks at me with that sort of look to say you trapped me but I love Daddy!!!

What a great ending....I love Daddy!  I thought about letting feral momma cat out of the crate and just let her have the whole room to herself but I don't know how I would ever catch her again when it is time to spay her?  Plus I usually use that room for my foster kittens (which I now have in a different room) but the flooring is carpeting.  I worry that if I let the feral momma cat run around the room that she may have diseases or other health issues that may become embedded in the carpeting fibers??  I wish the room was tiled so I could disinfect the flooring.  I've been thinking of buying a room size sheet of vinyl just to lay over the top of the carpeting so I can use bleach and disinfection solutions but that is sometime down the road.

[Angiew]

also to say i also have joined up two pens before now. the one being the sleeping area and the other the litter tray and food compartment for easy access.

as in piccies at start of thread

http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,25300.50.html

[Angiew]

just to say mm - I personally don't like ear tipping. The ones I've seen around here have almost half an ear missing. I prefer to chip while being done and if you want a visual sign shave off a panel of fur - it will only last a month or two being the downside but at least it doesn't disfigure the cat.

OK, I know I'm shallow!

[Angiew]

hi, we're on line together!

when we trap large colonies we have found that the trapped ones do go back in the traps while the clever ones stay away.
If you have the space to to keep them for a while then it does make things easier in my opinion.

Glad you managed to change the tray at last! perhaps you can get some help to put up a barrier. if you have bits of string attached it doesn't take more than a few seconds to pass them through the pen or as MM says , you can try a carrier.

[Millys Mum]

I dont cover up 100% as it doesnt help the kits living like that, its getting the balance right between mums need to hide and the kits not being total hermits lol
Its good they have a fresh tray 

I always keep them post op but wouldnt keep until entire colony trapped as what iv found is there is always one that takes ages or just plain wont be trapped 
I would also worry about upsetting the group by complete removal. I have ferals ear tipped when neutered so if they do go back in the trap its obvious they are done (the feeder can also ID them for me )

[HaneyHarperIndyMum (Val)]

Is her cage still uncovered? Have you a sheet you can wrap round it?

Why have the other now neutered ferals not been released yet?

Yes Milly's Mum, I do have a sheet placed over the cage but only on three sides.  Should I cover the cage completely?  I do have a bit of good news here....I finally was able to remove the old dirty litter box and place inside the cage a nice fresh litter box.  I used a big piece of cardboard as a shield.  Feral momma cat did hiss and growl but retreated to the far back of the cage and did not lunge out to strike me like she did the last time I put my hand inside.

The reason we have not re-released the now spayed and neutered feral kitties yet is because we still have about 8 to 10 more to trap.  We thought it would be easier this way.  What do you think?  Personally I suggested we release the ones that we already spayed and neutered but the lady who owns the rescue said that we need to hold them for a week or so just to make sure that they are not having any problems with their stitches incision site.  FYI, all the ferals that we have trapped have been given their rabbies shot and vaccines plus dewormed.  I think it would be best to re-release them at this point since I don't believe they will go inside the trap again.  I've heard that ferals are very smart.???

I like your idea of using a carrier inside but the cage/crate but the size of crate I am using is only a 36", two door type.  If I put a carrier inside it, then there won't be much room left.  I do have another same size cage/grate....I was wondering if I could put them together some how so that momma cat has use of two grates?  That way I could put all her feed bowl and water dish and litter box in one crate and she could use the other to nest with her kittens.....what do you think?

Val is on the other side of the pond, cant remember whether it is USA or Canada.

Yes Gill, I am in the USA.   San Diego, California to be exact. 

[Millys Mum]

Is her cage still uncovered? Have you a sheet you can wrap round it?
What iv found the easiest, safest and cleanest way is to have a good size cage that you can fit an end opening carrier in. They can use this as bed and you can still get to dishes and trays and if it gets too mucky you just slide the door in and remove, fresh basket goes in and they swap over without having the stress of being handled A lot of it is nerve tho and they do pick up on this.
Obviously ferals vary and the lot iv had here are 'early generation' and have a human feeder so are not as wild as some others but iv found this a relatively safe way of doing house keeping for them.

Why have the other now neutered ferals not been released yet?

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Val is on the other side of the pond, cant remember whether it is USA or Canada.

[Liz]

Zylkene can be got on line form Vet UK and various other places - our vet prescribes it now

It really is so hard to see them in a dirty litter tray but after about a week they tend to use the bed and vice versa

if you can can Mum get out for a little while to somewhere else in the room so you can see to the crate - we ended up letting a feral Mum out for a while and she became a different cat in fact Miss Diva is still with us and is now a Daddies girl - looks at me with that sort of look to say you trapped me but I love Daddy!!!

[Angiew]

If she is staying in the tray when you approach then get a big towel or cloth and throw it over her. I had to do this the other day to a very scared cat - its actually easier to move them in a tray if you have to. If she is completely covered by the cloth she may stay still long enough for you to rig up a curtain (especially if you already have bits of string ties to the top to tie around the bars). you may even be able to tuck the ends under the tray so that she is quite secure in there which would give you more time to tidy the pen up a bit.

When you have finished, the last thing to do is to put a clean tray in the back corner, dragging the dirty tray and cat to the front (and of course making sure she can get out from under the cover!).

Close the pen and leave her for a while and she will move out and no doubt find the babies and hide there with them leaving you to be able to move the dirty litter tray.

Where abouts are you? can you not ask some help from someone local with feral experience? - sometimes it helps to have a second pair of eyes to make sure that mum is covered up - especially the teeth end!

edited to add - if you have not done so already, also make the one corner nice and cosy. make sure is is well draped with blankets so that it is more den like and more attractive to her. the Zylkene can be bought online - i ordered some from vetuk yesterday to try out. Such do a search for it.

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Val hunny, everything you describe is standard for an caged feral. They won't eat in front of you if they feel unsafe. An animal is vulnerable when it eats.  In fact, if she's an out and out feral and you intend returning her to site, I would be staying away from her apart from seeing to food and hygiene matters. You don't want to return an animal to the wild who has begun to trust people. The next person she meets might not be so kind to her. 

Can you get some gauntlets and change the tray? Mum and the kittens will become ill if you don't change it soon. Also the food bowl will have stale food stuck to it now.  She won't fly at you, she'd much rather back away and run off and hide. Feral cats avoid confrontation like the plague... only she can't run off, can she? So all she can do to make YOU go away is hiss at you. It seems to be working.   

You'll find it a lot easier if you try to focus on her motivations and it will help you predict her actions. Everything about a feral cat has a root in fear. How can you minimise the amount of things she could be scared of? I have to say I'm still nervous from reading your posts that the stress will prove too much for mum and she'll stop caring for her kittens. 

Also... mother cats are very smart about knowing if there's a problem with a particular kitten. Resources are limited and she can't waste energies on a kitten she knows will not survive. Nature is so cruel sometimes... but Val I think if an autopsy was performed you would have found the kitten had something seriously wrong with it, and mum abandoned it on purpose. I wish I had a penny for every feral kitten we've been handed that people have found abandoned by mum. They rarely survive more than a few days.

Zylkene is a pheromone. Designed to calm cats down in the same way Catnip perks them up.  I have no idea if you can get it in your country but the place to ask would be a vet surgery. 

Best of luck.... we're all rooting for you! 

[HaneyHarperIndyMum (Val)]

Thank you all so much!  I've still not been able to put my hand inside the cage.  The litter box is getting pretty nasty.  In order to get the wet food into the dish that I have inside the cage, I have been spooning it through the cage bars.  I made a tube to pass dry food through the cage bars and am using a bottle with a bit of a neck to slip through the cage bars to fill the water bowl.

Angie (covcats) your cage set up is fantastic!  I wish I had thought about hanging a cloth on the inside to divide the cage.  It makes perfect sense.  That way I could scoop out the litter box and not be seen as a threat to feral momma cat.   Your cloth idea made me re-think how I'm going to get that litter box out so that I can put a clean one inside.  I've made a shield cut out of cardboard, about the size of the cage door.  I poked two holes in it so I could run a piece of rope through it and use it as a handle.   However, every time I have entered the room to try and change out the litter box, the feral momma cat is laying inside the litter box.  I don't want to disturb her by chasing her out of the litter box so I have been patiently waiting for the right chance.

I bought a broiled chicken and now every time I enter the room, I'm passing a tasty morsel of chicken through the cage bars in hopes that feral momma cat will soon associate me with yummy chicken.  She growls and hisses at me and won't touch the chicken until I leave the room.


Pinkbear (Julie) The reason I did not leave the kittens and feral momma alone outdoors is because the feral momma cat kept moving her kittens to different people's gardens and crossing a busy road carrying her kittens in her mouth.  She did this over 6 times over a weeks period and then the last time she moved them, she left the runt kitten behind and covered in ants.  The little runt was so sickly and it's only hope for survival was to rush him to my vets.  Sadly, the little runt did not survive.   I was so afraid that I would not be able to find the feral momma cat with her kittens since she kept moving them.  I felt I had no choice but to trap the momma cat while I knew for certain where her kittens were.  Plus there are raccoons in the area and I was told that the raccoons will eat the baby kittens.  Once the kittens are old enough to eat from a dish, hopefully 5 to 6 weeks, I will spay the feral momma and return her where I trapped her.  She is just miserable being inside that cage.

The Zylkene will have no effect on the kittens either - pop a capule - opened  and mix in to the food and she should staart to be a bit calmer :

What is Zylkene?  Is this a drug?  Where do I get it?  Maybe that is just what feral momma cat needs, something to calm her a bit?

[Liz]

I would pop Mum on Zylkene - I have my 2 latest adult ferals aged approx a year on it and it has worked wonders as Sammy is a slasher and Indie is a lunger at both mean business

The Zylkene will have no effect on the kittens either - pop a capule - opened  and mix in to the food and she should staart to be a bit calmer - sometimes thoguh TNR is the only way for Mum but she is gorgeous but then again 30 of of our delinquents are feral so they hissy slashy ones don''t tend to phase us now!

[Angiew]

Hi,

I am in the same position at the moment with a mum and 7 kittens.
The best way to alleviate some of the stress is to rig up some curtains halfway across the pen so that you can go in and do what needs doing. I also cover the whole pen front as well for long periods so that mum cat can come out away from the kittens and feel safe.
She still lunges as me but its mainly posturing and I can ignore most of it though try not to jump - which is instinctual when a mummy cat lunges and spits 12 inches from your face!

Feliway may also help ( I Keep forgetting) - if you have some spray all covers liberally.

If she is still too scary then use a bit of cardboard to hold against the curtain as a shield so that if she does a full lunge you are more confident that you are safe.

I am hand feeding mum cat roast chicken which she likes and will snatch off me with a snort. I just have to be careful how I retract my hand as I think once she thought my finger was chicken and that I was trying to take it away from her.

Also lots of talking in a low friendly voice as you approach the pen and do your business. No direct staring at her or the babies - she will see that as a threat so lots of side glances and slow blinkng. Slow movements and no sudden ones if you can help it 

I also close the door to the room when i'm doing , not that I think she would lunge past me but to stop other cats wandering around and upsetting her and me being in the line of fire.



I don't know if this is the 'professional' approach but so far I am unscathed (I shouldn't have said that should I  ).
If i lift one corner of the cutain I can change the food bowl and the other gives me access to the water bowl in her inner sanctdom (sp).

Can you see her head resting against the tray, I think she's on the look out for breakfast ... talking of which , duty calls!

[Janeyk]

Hi,

I don't know whether you've seen this link about ferals and taming feral kittens and cats from our Cat Care Guide section:

http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,26929.0.html

Mumcat does look scared in the photo bless her!
best of luck x

[Bazsmum]

Good Luck with feral mum and her stunning kittens...... 

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Everyone forgets about me, Gill, even my own cats... until it's dinner time!   

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Thanks for responding Julie cos I regret had forgotten about you...very sorry 

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

I think you are quite lucky that mum hasn't rejected the kittens. She must be petrified. The ideal would have been to leave them where they were until the kittens are weaned at least.

The 'aggression' is a reaction to your own fear when opening the cage. Fear is infectious and crosses species with ease. You are both giving each other a fright and mum thinks you are coming to kill her. Try to appear to be confident when you have to intervene in the pen. Avoid eye contact. Speak softly and slowly. Maybe even a calming song to relax you both? Wear suitable gauntlets (welders gauntlets are best) and carry on about your business of changing bowls and trays. Try not to react when she lashes out.

As soon as you feel confident the kittens are eating well on their own, I would remove them and then poor mum can be on her way back to where she feels safe. This may be anywhere between 5-7 weeks old. Hopefully nearer 5 as every day after that it gets worse. 8 weeks is a crucial landmark as that is when the kittens learn to strike out. Before 8 weeks it's all mouth and nothing to back it up. 

After that have been removed from mum they need lots and lots of handling rapidly. Bribe all visitors into spending 10 minutes of kitten cuddling. The more people they meet the better. Can't have too much handling! You really do have a short window before it gets much harder.

There is a lot of good advise online about how to tame feral kittens. CAT77 have a few good tips. And you can always ask us. 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Its a bit late for our kitten peeps to be on but am sure someone will answer you tomorrow........2330 here 

I suspect that mum cat his hissing partly because she thinks you are going to take/hurt her kittens so she is warnig you away but dont know how you deal with food and litter tray but I am sure that someone will help.

I know all the rescues are very busy at the moment but it maybe worth pming  lesley at eight lives and Angie at the Coventry group, Liz up in Scotland maybe can advise too.

I know Teresa at Paws Inn would know but she is very busy at the moment nursing her own injuries and looking after hissy spits, so unless she replies I would suggest the others.

Lots of Luck , mum and kits look lovely 

[HaneyHarperIndyMum (Val)]

Hi everyone,

I really need some advice here. It's a long story of how this all came to be but I will cut to the chase.  I have trapped a nursing feral momma cat.  It took days and days of trying.  Her kittens are only about 13 to 16 days old, eyes are open and ears are just now starting to unfold.  There were 5 kittens, one of which was nearly dead when I rescued them.  So I rushed him to my vets for immediate care.  The poor little kitten did not survive despite giving him sub~q fluids.  I had no choice but to try and trap the momma cat and rescue her remaining 4 kittens who were covered in dirt and ants!

I now have them all inside a crate/cage in my spare bedroom.  I have had them now for 4 days.  There are a few sneezes and I have looked them all over and given the poor conditions of being born outdoors, they look fairly good.  Feral Momma Cat was very scared the first day and just stayed at the back of the cage.  I was able to place food and water and a litter box inside the cage with only her hissing at me.  By the second day, feral momma cat began to growl and hiss at me when I opened the cage, but at least I was able to place fresh food and water inside and scoop out the litter box.  Then by day 3, when I opened the cage door to place food and water, the feral momma cat lashed out at me growling and hissing like mad, so much so, that I was not able to scoop out the litter box for fear of being attacked and injured.

Now here I am at day 4 and feral momma cat has become more and more aggressive towards me when I try to put food and water inside her cage.  I still have not been able to scoop out the litter box now for two days.  Her aggression is scary, very scary.   I have been reading up on feral cats and have learned that I should remove the kittens from the feral momma cat at 4 to 6 weeks because if left any longer, that they too will be very hard to tame.  My goal is to keep the feral momma cat just long enough to get the kittens eating from a dish, then spay and re-release her back into her feral cat colony.  Meanwhile, I could use some advice or tips on how I am going to care for this feral momma cat and kittens since it appears that I can not put my hand inside the cage to clean it.  What should I do?  I have never encountered caring for a feral cat before so I really don't know what I am doing.  I just want to save her kittens so that they can be adopted into loving forever homes.  So far we have removed 8 other feral cats from this colony and have had them all spayed and neutered with the help of the Feral Cat Coalition, but we have not re-released them back yet since there are still 8 to 10 more to trap.  This feral momma cat was the only one so far with kittens therefore required special care.

FYI, I am a foster home and care taker for a kitty rescue so I have plenty of experience with domestic cats and kittens, but dealing with a feral cat is a new adventure for me.

Here is a picture I took of feral momma kitty and her kittens this morning.  You can see she is growling at me and by her eyes, she means business and could cause serious harm.