Question re: Blood results (Sad News - RIP Billy xx)

[BTC]

update:

Billy had his bloods done again and I am glad to report back that his levels are all good.  Nothing scary to report thankfully - very happy to add that his BP is back down to normal at last.  The amplodipine has done its job!

So glad that the meds appear to have done their job.  He still has a cracking appetite, even though he only weighs around 2.7kg...  So I take that as a good sign.

I hope to be able to keep reporting back like this for years to come!!! 

[clarenmax]

He sounds like he's doing just fine 

Good luck with the bloods, and hope his levels have stabilised a bit 

[Desley (booktigger)]

Glad to hear he is doing well.

[Janeyk]

Good to hear that Billy is still doing well  and best of luck with the bloods this week xx

[Mark]

Sounds good 

I had Clapton's bloods done earlier this year but unless he appears ill, I can't see the point as it is so stressful for him - he has had bloods done once in 3 years and I'm not going to subject him to 6 monthly ones for no good reason.

[BTC]

update:

touch wood all is going well.  seems that the course of meds he's on is working well.  he has his istin/fortekor at breakfast and his famotidine in the evening.  he has a couple of squirts of renalzin on his felix senior, which we intersperse with his renal food.  we've also found the cat food spray works quite well on the renal food - certainly makes it more appetizing for him it appears. 

the famotidine has really stopped his dodgy tum as he has hardly been sick since starting it, which is great.

back to the vets later this week for another blood test - its been about 6wks since the last so fingers crossed all's well.  I've read that you should treat the cat and not the disease, well if thats the case, then I'm happy with how things are as Billy appears to be doing very well, all things considered.  just hope his levels have come back to some sense of normality!

[Desley (booktigger)]

Glad to hear he is doing well - unless he had both thyroid glands removed, he could develop thyroid probs again in the future.

[Janeyk]

Good to hear Billy's doing well 

[BTC]

update:

Billy's been pretty good since my last update.  Generally quite happy and eating quite well.  His weight increased by 100gms when he had his last check done, about 1wk ago, so that's good news.  Unfortunately he's been sick on a couple of occasions and so the vet has put him on 1/4 tab of famotidine - he hasn't been sick since, so that seems to be working.   He like to play up with his food a bit, especially with me it seems.  Lorraine puts down his renal food and he eats a fair bit of it.  I try the same and he looks at me, almost in disgust.    I either have to mix it with Felix Senior, or just give him Felix Senior but with some Renalzin mixed in.  The vet noticed that his phos level was up at the last check, so we're making sure he gets the binder both with the Senior food and with the Renal food.

Creatine down to 260 now, and BP down to 190 (he doesnt really like it being done, so I think its elevated a bit more than normal when its taken), so both much better from before.  Am of course hoping to get both down further, especially the BP.  I think the Istin/Fortekor combination seems to be doing its job.  He has appeared to be in a much better mood generally, since starting on the Fortekor. 

Mark - did you try that food appetiser spray thing?  Did it work?  I was thinking of trying some on the renal food.  He seems to be on and off it at the moment - several varieties.

Hopefully things will calm down a bit now.  Just wish he'd not be so fussy with the renal stuff! 

[BTC]

thanks Desley!

Billy had his thyroid removed last year, so I think we can rule that out!

He's having his BP done this afternoon - he doesn't much like having his BP done, the machine makes him jump.  The wife's going to be with him this time as it calms him down a fair bit, and hopefully gives a better reading.  Hoping for around 180ish...  fingers crossed.

[Desley (booktigger)]

I am glad he is doing well, and when you get his repeat bloods done, i would get his thyroid checked just to be on the safe side.

[Mark]

<insert link to vet uk here>  mark 

 

http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_223&products_id=3264

[Millys Mum]

<insert link to vet uk here>  mark 

[Mark]

I am going to try spraying this on renal food to see if it helps. It says it is suitable for CRF cats so nothing (Well £3.90  ) to lose

[Janeyk]

Hiya 

Glad to hear you've had a good honeymoon and that Billy is doing well!  Regarding the weight, with Schui I asked the vet this as he was a quite a tubby cat before and he lost weight especially round his back end, the vet said that this does tend to happen and it is good if they eat well be it renal food or their normal food.  Glad to hear that Billy is enjoying his food 

[BTC]

thanks - we had a great time, mostly because we knew we weren't leaving a sick little man behind.  We had even discussed the possibility of postponing the honeymoon as we would have been sooo miserable if he was still ill when we left.  Luckily it didnt come to that - maybe that was his wedding present to us!

Apparently the vestibular thingyme - something to do with an inflammation of the inner-ear.  They still don't know why though.  But it apparently doesnt generally come back and it passes quite quickly.

Yes, the weight thing is a bit worrying, but as long as he doesn't keep losing weight and continues to eat etc. then I think we'll be ok.  Definately noticed it around the rear end - his back legs have lost a bit of muscle/fat and his spine can be felt when you run your hand along his back - not massively, but it can be felt now, whereas before this all started it wasn't really too noticeable.

But it doesn't seem to bother him in the slightest now - thankfully. 

[clarenmax]

Hiya, welcome back, hope you had a lovely time 

He certainly does know how to worry you though, I know nothing about vestibular syndrome, but hopefully it was a one-off 

So pleased he's taken to the renal diet as well, it can be very hit and miss, so this is great!  You will find that getting him to put weight on though might be tricky,  cats with renal issues do tend to lose weight, and often its more noticable around the rear end more than anywhere else, its certainly where it was visible with my boy Max.  Just make sure he's eating and drinking a good amount, and you'll be surprised how long they can stay fit and healthy, even without gaining weight 

[BTC]

update:

Well he certainly knows how to play us!

The very night we got back from our honeymoon we had to take him to the vets.  He was fine when we got in, but 1hr later he began to lose his balance and his pupils went wide and kept flicking from left to right.  Scared the life out of us, and him!
Thankfully, the vet diagnosed Senile Vestibular Syndrome - said that it was common in old cats, and that luckily it should only ever happen once (if it happens at all).  Sure enough within 24-48hrs Billy was back to normal.

Since we've been back (since 18th), he's been excellent.  Eating lots - and whats more - all renal food, without prompting.  Even enjoying the odd funny 5 minute sprint around downstaires.  Only thing that slightly concerns me is that he doesnt appear to have put back on any weight (he's only around 2.8kg) - even with his greatly improved appetite.  But he's eating well, and is far more perky so I don't think theres much more I can do.  Thank god for small mercies and all that!!

The missus is getting some more Istin for him this afternoon, and is going to take him for a BP check on friday.

Am hoping that we are out of the woods now for the forseeable future. 

[Christine (Blip)]

That sounds better!

[Desley (booktigger)]

Glad he has perked up

[clarenmax]

Good news that he's got his appetite back 

[Janeyk]

I am so pleased - that is great news I think that you are right the injection and tablets should make him much better fairly quickly   

[Gillian Harvey]

Thats good news  sounds like the meds are kicking in, and you will be able to enjoy your honeymoon. By the way, Billy looks lovely - what colour is he? can't quite tell from the photo - I've got persians (9 to be exact LOL!) my Sam has HCM and CRF, but he's doing pretty well at the moment on Fortekor and diuretics.
 

[BTC]

I got back from work this afternoon and BTC was in the bedroom.  He meowed at me! (sometimes it takes the smallest of things!!!)

I took him downstaires and put some fresh food and water down, said a quick prayer and put the food down...  He ate - and then ate some more!!!!!!!

5mins ago I got up from the settee (he was on my lap), he got off and came into the kitchen with me (on his own steam) and ate some more!!!!

You know how you can just tell when your kitty is not right - well I can sense that he is on the mend now - he's got a fair bit of spark back in him this afternoon.  Fingers crossed he's pulling through - Im hoping it was nothing more than possibly some kind of minor infection.  I think the vit b12 shot yesterday might have helped him get over it.  I guess the BP tabs might have also started to kick in (he had his 2nd this morning).

Touch wood we can go on our honeymoon feeling a whole lot better about our little BTC 

[Janeyk]

Hi BTC,

My boy Schui had CRF and was like that on and off and it is a worry.  Like Mark's cat my Schui had to have steroids on and off to help his appetite but he had other issues too.  The cat I have now has high bp and is also on 1/8 of Istin dailly and Pep's bp was about normal last visit so hopefully Billy will feel better soon.  Staying at the vets sounds a good idea but if Billy is used to your dad and upset at the vets then maybe with your dad would be the best opton but I would have a word with your vet and see what they can suggest.  Hope everything goes well xx

[clarenmax]

In that situation, he'd probably be more settled staying at home, but on the proviso that you can get him into the vets if required.

You are definitely not alone 

[BTC]

thanks everyone.  it is so comforting to know that we are not alone in this.  I would imagine it would appear ridiculous to some, just how much we treasure our little bag of fluff, but both of us have always been moggy lovers!  god, don't they know how to tear your heart out though!!!
I will call the vet when I get home, with a mind to taking Billy back in.  I dont think it's fair for my wifes dad to be left in this situation.  However, with any luck he can then pick Billy up once he has had a bit of nursing.  Our only concern is that like most cats,  he doesn't generally like the vets.  I'd hate for him to think we'd gone and left him (her dad always stays around when we go on hols, so he has no experience of a cattery / boarding etc).

[clarenmax]

Hiya, defo agree another vet visit, or at least a chat on the phone with them, would help set your mind at ease a little.

CRF cats can defo have days where they won't eat very much, Max was very up and down, as the toxins etc can make then feel sick and a bit poorly.  Is he showing interest in his bowl then just not eating as much?  If thats the case then he probably is feeling a bit yucky  

The Istin can made them feel a bit weird as well, Max was on 1/8 tab a day and it took a few days for him to settle with that.  Its good that the high BP has been picked up and treated as this can lead to blindness, so pleased that your vet is switched on  

Try to enjoy your honeymoon, just make sure that they are fully briefed in what to look out for if there are any problems, and let them know that you have an agreement with your vets for them to take him in for a check-up if they are concerned, and that you have pre-agreed to pay the costs of any treatments which may ensue.  That way you're covered xxx

[Mark]

I was just about to post the same thing as Desley. At least he can be monitored at the vets. Apparently CRF feels like having a hangover when the symptoms are bad. increased toxins make them feel rough and dehydration more so. It's a vicious circle. I was in the kitchen cooking chicken at midnight the other night as I wrongly thought Willow would take her pill in ham. I was also crawling around on hands & knees in the garden at 1am this morning getting her to eat spiked chicken 

It is often described as the CRF rollercoaster. I know each cat is different but Clapton refused to eat when he was first diagnosed and he had a steroid shot to kick-start his appetite and apart from when he had a mouth infection the other week, he hasn't stopped eating since.

My vet said to give them any food they will eat if they aren't eating and worry about giving them the proper food when their appetite is back. If it means giving them adult food which is tastier, that is fie. You can always add some binders. Willow loves the Hi-life tinned fish which I know is high phosphorus but when she won't eat, I allow it but with an extra squirt of Renalzin in.

[Desley (booktigger)]

I would get him to the vets to be checked over due to your hol, CRF cats can have hit and miss days with food, but at least it would help put your mind at ease. It might also be worth seeing if your vet will board him while you are away. I hope you get to enjoy your holiday.

[BTC]

Update:

We are very worried 

Billy has been off his food and very quiet all weekend - he has mostly just licked his food.  We even tried him back on Felix (Senior) but he's the same with that.  He's so very quiet and sleeps a lot.  Is this to be expected of a CRF kitty?  Do they go on/off food for several days occasionaly?

I took him to the vets yesterday for a BP check the vet had requested - turns out he has high BP.  The vet has put him on a course of Istin.  He had his first tablet when he got home, and another this morning.

It is really worrying us that he is not eating - he normally eats for England (although has never been a lardy pud).  Have tried about 5 different types of renal food and am back on felix senior - which is the only one he's even looked at - apparently he had a couple of mouthfulls this morning after I left, but nowhere near enough.  His urea/creatinine levels haven't changed (for the worse), so that's some relief at least.

It's killing us because we go away on our honeymoon tomorrow and my wife's mum/dad are going to be looking after him.  Whilst that is great, you can imagine how we feel about not being there.  We are no doubt going to thinking about him all the time we are away - which probably won't make, what should be a time to remember for life, the best of memories.  If he hasn't eaten anymore by the time I get in today, I think I might take him back to the vet's so that the vet can try to figure out what is up with the poor mite -- the only thing is we don't want to unnecessarily stress Billy out.  But I don't really see another option - if he's not eating / eating enough.


It's really not supposed to be like this so soon after your marriage day! 

[clarenmax]

Clare has a lot of experience with this - I will let her explain 

Indeed I do  and I ended up with much the same method as Kate 

The funny litter stuff they give you a nightmare, Max would never go anywhere near it and would just hold it in for hours 

So we devised a cunning plan, put the horrid litter down for several hours, then when said cat is doing a little 'I need a wee' dance, put their normal litter down and hover!  When they're mid stream, lift up tail, stick pot/glass under stream, and voila 

Be prepared to be given a kitty death stare though 

Seriously, for me it was the only way to get a sample 

[BTC]

Yikes!  Sounds like fun ahead...

I'll give it a go.  If I don't report back it's most likely because I've been scratched to death.

Thanks for the Kaminox info.  I agree that I think the Kaminox addition will be fine as I think its more of a supplement than a drug per se.  Just want to be sure before going ahead though.   I will try him on several varieties of prescription food before anything.  After all, if he is eating all his food then I guess there is no real reason to add extra protein to his diet.

Pic time (sorry for the dodgy quality - cameraphone in a low-lit room!)


He's a persian so he comes with the scrunched up face - but we love him even more because of it!!

[swampmaxmum]

Another question:  Urine sample - how on earth are you supposed to get one?  I've tried asking Billy, but I think he told me, in no uncertain terms, to go away...

What always works here is to get one of those shallow black supermarket meal pots (like have a curry side dish or dal in) and make sure it's scrubbed clean of any traces of food, then wait for the cat to start peeing and pop it under his bum. I've never failed to get enough for a urine sample as you don't need much at all. If all else fails, you could take Billy to the vet where they will express his bladder but I'd try the 'curry pot' method first. Good luck.

Btw I've asked my vet re kaminox as both of my boys always had normal potassium levels and I read all the warnings. He said that 1ml a day is entirely safe for normal range potassium levels in CRF cats.  Apparently in CRF the potassium markers can be masked in some way. It also contains amino acids, iron and vit B which are very helpful. But if Billy has higher than normal potassium, or very top end of normal, I think you'd have to be careful.

My vet vetoed any processed meats as they all have a high sodium content. He said if I want to give some fresh food, to cook it myself with nothing added, but not to give too much as too much protein is harmful.  If you're going to feed some protein though (as Mark says there is a discussion going on about this) make sure it is high quality protein, not junk food if possible. HTH and can we see a photo of Billy? 

[Mark]

Clare has a lot of experience with this - I will let her explain 

[BTC]

Ok, I've just put an order in for several different brands/flavours.  Will see which one's he enjoys most!

Billy had his thyroid removed early last year.  Touch wood he's been fine since. 

Another question:  Urine sample - how on earth are you supposed to get one?  I've tried asking Billy, but I think he told me, in no uncertain terms, to go away...

[clarenmax]

You can get 3 flavours of renal wet from Royal Canin, tuna, chicken and beef. There are like chunks in a light gravy.

If your new vets can get it, there's another one called Specific which is more of a pate style, and my boy Max ate this for a while.

He did go off all the foods eventually though, so I had to get inventive and mix it with same flavour ordinary foods, but that did also work as it made the food smellier and a bit more palitable.

With a lot of these foods its trial and error.

Evetually I gave up with the renal wet and just gave senior food with the phospherous binder, and then gave him RC renal biscuits to offset any effects. 

His creatinine levels were stable during his illness, normally between 270-300, and that was without any actual drugs for his kidneys.

However my boy had thyroid issues too which hand in hand made treatment more difficult, so your treatment might well be different anyway.

I've probably confused you more now  Sorry 

[BTC]

The protein idea is not for everyone and I would imagine most vets will always say stick with the renal diet only but to me it makes sense that cats need protein. I wouldn't buy chicken slices as there are usually salts and nitrates added and often, the worst thing possible, phosphates - I think it unlikely any ready sliced chicken isn't processed in some way. The same goes for ham and any other processed meats. I do allow the odd bit of ham as they still  deserve treats but just trying to keep the balance.

Did your vet say Billy had low Potassium? - Tanya's CRF site says Kaminox is dangerous to use unless the vet says the cat has low potassium. Also, I saw a warning saying it should not be given to cats with a low water intake. This is the first time I have heard of a cat with CRF that doesn't drink much. In fact, I am taking Willow to the vet again this week as her drinking has increased a lot over the last few weeks.

Another thing I do is give them filtered water to minimize any nasties - especially as they drink so much.

Edit - I had a look in Sainsbury's today at their packs of Sliced chicken breast and they all contain diphosphates and/or triphosphates.

You could always cook it yourself and freeze small amounts in bags? _ used to do that with Kylie's fish. I wold take on out of the freezer each morning and put it in the fridge so it was thawed for the evening.

Thanks for the info Mark.  Good point about the processed meat / phosphates.  I will take a look at cooked drumsticks and see if they are any better, but we will probably end up staying safe and preparing chicken ourselves.

We don't know whether he has a low potassium level yet as the vet did not check (but was happy to put him on Kaminox!!)  When I asked he said I could bring Billy back and he would check - that somewhat annoyed me, and is one of the reasons I am taking Billy to another vet on Wednesday.   After speaking with the new vet we have only given Billy the new KD Diet food - no Kaminox or Fortekor.  After Wednesday, depending on the outcome we may introduce one or both.  Of course, I'm very much hoping that he won't yet require either but considering his initial blood test last week, it would appear that he will.

Question to everyone:  What diet food have you found your cat enjoys?  I need to get some other options for Billy as although he is eating the KD Chicken mince, I want to get a few options so I can rotate a bit.  (Desley - thanks for the info provided about this!)

I will put a pic of Billy up very soon.  Just need to get one put online first!

[Desley (booktigger)]

Fingers crossed he responds well to the treatment, and I am glad he is eating the K/D, my vet doesn't offer it anymore as she doesn't find many cats like it, but RC do a variety and there are also at least 2 CRF foods available through Zooplus, and 2 more available from VetUK.

[Mark]

The protein idea is not for everyone and I would imagine most vets will always say stick with the renal diet only but to me it makes sense that cats need protein. I wouldn't buy chicken slices as there are usually salts and nitrates added and often, the worst thing possible, phosphates - I think it unlikely any ready sliced chicken isn't processed in some way. The same goes for ham and any other processed meats. I do allow the odd bit of ham as they still  deserve treats but just trying to keep the balance.

Did your vet say Billy had low Potassium? - Tanya's CRF site says Kaminox is dangerous to use unless the vet says the cat has low potassium. Also, I saw a warning saying it should not be given to cats with a low water intake. This is the first time I have heard of a cat with CRF that doesn't drink much. In fact, I am taking Willow to the vet again this week as her drinking has increased a lot over the last few weeks.

Another thing I do is give them filtered water to minimize any nasties - especially as they drink so much.

Edit - I had a look in Sainsbury's today at their packs of Sliced chicken breast and they all contain diphosphates and/or triphosphates.

You could always cook it yourself and freeze small amounts in bags? _ used to do that with Kylie's fish. I wold take on out of the freezer each morning and put it in the fridge so it was thawed for the evening.