Whiskas renal wet food

[Desley (booktigger)]

Mark - just because they worked for Tiggy doesn't necessarily mean they will help Clapton, CRF affects cats in different ways.

[Mark]

The info I saw was to do with buildup in the brain but I would be willing to use them - they did the job for Tiggy so I'm sure they would help Clapton. Maybe if he doesn't agree, I will change vets 
I have started talking to the vet next door again so it would make more sense to go there anyway - less stressful for the cats - and they are cheaper 

[Gillian Harvey]

He didn't even ask what kind I had in mind - I have some alucaps. I read up on them and it said in some cases there can be a buildup and it can cause dementia. I may just try sprinkling on a tiny amount and not tell the vet.

Mark, as far as I know the concern about aluminium based binders such as alucaps relates to humans on dialysis (something to do with aluminium being used in the dialysis process as well) - and apparently even then, it takes years before it is a problem. It isnt a problem for cats, coz they don't have dialysis (is that how you spell it? - it doesnt look right!)

Glad he's eating.

[Desley (booktigger)]

I am glad he is eating something, even if it isn't what the vet would like him to eat, and glad that he is enjoying spring!!

[Mark]

It's funny that over the last couple of days where he has been eating what he fancies - Some hilife complementary + some chicken + a bit of gourment gold + a tiny bit of senior whiskas, he is like a new cat - he is back to hs ols ways, chasing a leaf around the garden, chasing a ball of paper round the living room etc - it's really good to see (might have something to do with the weather?) anyway I realised it's best to put the food out and leave it instead of trying to make him eat and hovering like mother hen 

[Desley (booktigger)]

As Gillian and Susanne have said, chicken is higher protein, but it is the quality of the protein. I would quiz the vet about phos binders again first before doing it without telling him, just in case.

[Mark]

He didn't even ask what kind I had in mind - I have some alucaps. I read up on them and it said in some cases there can be a buildup and it can cause dementia. I may just try sprinkling on a tiny amount and not tell the vet.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

The theory about feeding low protein diets for CRF came about because of studies done on HUMANS and RATS - not cats, so I don't have much faith in them seeing as cats are completely different and have such a high requirement for protein.

I agree.  From what I've read (limited I'll admit) good quality protein is more important than low protein.

re the phosphorus binders.  I remember now you saying that your vet was dismissive of them but I'd be temtped to try and have a discussion about them and ask the vet what problems he thinks they might cause and why he doesn't like to use them.  Most things have advantages and disadvantages and they may not be right for Clapton, but they just might and that may make feeding him a little easier.  But I agree with Desley also about quality of life and the important thing being that Clapton is happy and enjoys life.

[Gillian Harvey]

I think your vet's concerns about phos binders is to do with the calcium based ones, the aluminium based ones don't seem to cause too many problems, although constipation may be one prob. There are several different ones so its worth looking into.

Low phosphorus is more important than low protein, so something like chicken is a good quality protein but is lower in phosphorus than some other meats - theres a good site where you can check the phos content in many different meats and cuts of meat www.nutritiondata.com, you just key in the type of meat.

The theory about feeding low protein diets for CRF came about because of studies done on HUMANS and RATS - not cats, so I don't have much faith in them seeing as cats are completely different and have such a high requirement for protein.

[Mark]

Thanks everyone. I also think that he should eat (within reason) whatever he enjoys. Food, sleep, a fuss & play is all they ask for 

I have already spoken to the vet about binders after Helen's advice. I got some from boots before speaking to the vet but he was very dismissive and said they "can cause problems"

One thing Idon't indersyand is the renal foods are low phosphorus and low protein, yet the vet recommends chicken & fish which are very high protein ?

When I give him renal food, he looks at me really sadly - he really is an expressive cat. I think I will get him some good old chicken supermeat as he loves that 

[Desley (booktigger)]

MArk, I was in a similar situation to you, Snowy hated all the prescription food when she had liver probs - she liked the dry, but couldn't eat it all the time with being toothless. I ended up accepting that she wouldn't have as long with me cos she wasn't eating 'special' food, but it was nearly a year before her raised liver enzymes developed into something more serious (and that again could have been managed, but she hated meds, so I opted for quality over quantity again). I personally think in illnesses that can only be managed rather than cured, quality of life is much more important - no point buying them years with prescrip food if they hate eating it and dont enjoy themselves.

[Gillian Harvey]

it's so frustrating but I feel like I am slowly killing him letting him eat whatever he wants. Strangely though, he is chirpier and even slept on the bed for the 1st time in about a month despite kylies filthy looks 

Don't feel like that Mark, better that he eats something isnt it? The renal foods are lower in protein and low in phosphorus, and just aim to put less strain on the kidneys, they arent going to prevent the progression of CRF, so your'e not killing him by feeding him whatever he will eat. Maybe try the phos binders in whatever ordinary food he will eat, like Susanne suggested.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

It's a shame they don't give the % for whiskas senior.

Email and ask them.  I've obtained phosphorus values for a few foods, eg natures menu,  by contacting the manufacturer and asking.  A lot of foods don't print that information on the packaging.

I do hope you find something he likes and will eat.  Maybe now would be a good time to have a discussion with the vet about phosphorus binders if you're having trouble getting him to eat the renal food. 

[Mark]

I will ask the vet if they can get the purina one - they said they only supply Hills or RC but maybe I can get some online. Failing that, I will see if I can get him regular Hills wet, although it looks like it has nearly 2 x the phosphorus. It's a shame they don't give the % for whiskas senior. He was OK with that for a while but has been rejecting it lately (now I have 8 boxes in the cupboard!) - I don't know who makes "specific kidney support" but I will look into it. For the last 2 days, he is only really interested in Hi-life beef pouches "complementary". I am throwing away enough to feed 2 or 3 cats every day - it's so frustrating but I feel like I am slowly killing him letting him eat whatever he wants. Strangely though, he is chirpier and even slept on the bed for the 1st time in about a month despite kylies filthy looks 

[Desley (booktigger)]

Might be worth contacting them just to check then Mark. Ginger and Snowy were the other way round, they hated Whiskas adult, but loved Whiskas senior!! Have you looked at the list of foods on www.felinecrf.org ?

[Mark]

When I clicked on the link, it said "this item has been removed from our catalogue" and I can't see any other refs to it so I guess it has. Its a shame as clapton might have eaten it, although having said that he loved whiskas supermeat but he won't eat senior supermeat. Back to the drawing board! 

[Desley (booktigger)]

I didn't think Whiskas still did a renal food?

[Mark]

Has anyone tried this?

Clapton has always loved Whiskas but the vet prescribed Science plan and RC renal - neither of which he will eat. I am thinking of ordering some of the Whiskas Low Phosphorus/Low Protein.

Any info appreciated.

Thanks

Mark