Anyone up on alternative remedies?

[Mark]

Also, given that I am doing animal science, the lecturer ask us for input on things we would like included. I suggested nutrition and he said no can do.

I'm not surprised - its a very complex subject.

But we are at university so surely we should? - I'm sure things will change next year when we start our individual subjects. We are all doing the same class this coming year regardless of whether we are doing Biosciences, Animal Science, Environmental Science, science teacher training etc.

[koscha (Ruth M)]

It's not that I think natural substances are ineffective: far from it.  Aspirin is a good example (and my own pain reliever of choice).  I use tea tree oil on minor cuts and alcohol as a recreational drug.  If I felt depressed I would self-medicate with St John's Wort as a first step.

My frustration is that many people seem to believe that 'natural' equals more gentle and with no side effects.  But other natural substances include cocaine, nicotine and arsenic.  I could go on.  If something has a therapeutic effect, it is likely to have side effects in susceptible individuals, whatever its provenance.

My other frustration is that there are too many charlatans out there preying on people's distrust of pharmaceutical companies.  I'm no apologist for the latter, but primary benefits of modern pharmacology include isolation of active ingredients and standardisation of dosage.

I've been plugging exactly that message for years Christine but sadly it seems to fall on deaf ears  .

Mark I would be extremely cautious about taking the advice of someone who is not is not trained to give advice on animals. 

Damn right guys! I wince whenever someone advocates herbal remedies as 'side effect free'...I use herbal products but can say first hand that they have side effects...for example the time I mistakely took 3 times the dosage of Gingko Biloba (used for improvement of memory via increasing blood flow to the brain) and shot my blood pressure thorough the roof!  

St. Johns wort increases the skins sensitivity to sunlight and knocks the contraceptive pill on the head and valerian and skullcap will tranquillise in high doses just like a big dose of sedatives.....so is subject to the same no operating heavy machinery or driving rules!

I always advise humans   to never dismiss their doctors advice and to always buy a high quality standardised product (most of holland and barretts products are subject to this) and I would always give the same advice to a pet owner (I'm not personally qualified re feline nutrition so wouldn't dare do so anway!   )

I just hope that Claptons not a 'psycho' when it comes to Valerian  ......as in my experience it produces an effect in individual cats that is identical to thier catnip response! *winces in rememberance*

Do we have a animal herbalist on here at all?   apologies in advance if I missed the blindingly obvious.....

[CarolM (Wendolene)]

Also, given that I am doing animal science, the lecturer ask us for input on things we would like included. I suggested nutrition and he said no can do.

I'm not surprised - its a very complex subject.

[Mark]

I'm sure my vet would recommend Hill's light for obesity which sums it up.

Also, given that I am doing animal science, the lecturer ask us for input on things we would like included. I suggested nutrition and he said no can do.

[CarolM (Wendolene)]

TBH, I trust nobodies judgement.

A bit extreme but I know what you mean.  Sadly there are times when I think even my vet doesn't really know what he's talking about.

[Mark]

I wouldn't just randomly give a cat anything. I know some tea tree products are sold for use with cats but I wouldn't use them. TBH, I trust nobodies judgement. Even on here I have been recommended things that I wouldn't use.

[CarolM (Wendolene)]

It's not that I think natural substances are ineffective: far from it.  Aspirin is a good example (and my own pain reliever of choice).  I use tea tree oil on minor cuts and alcohol as a recreational drug.  If I felt depressed I would self-medicate with St John's Wort as a first step.

My frustration is that many people seem to believe that 'natural' equals more gentle and with no side effects.  But other natural substances include cocaine, nicotine and arsenic.  I could go on.  If something has a therapeutic effect, it is likely to have side effects in susceptible individuals, whatever its provenance.

My other frustration is that there are too many charlatans out there preying on people's distrust of pharmaceutical companies.  I'm no apologist for the latter, but primary benefits of modern pharmacology include isolation of active ingredients and standardisation of dosage.

I've been plugging exactly that message for years Christine but sadly it seems to fall on deaf ears  .

Mark I would be extremely cautious about taking the advice of someone who is not is not trained to give advice on animals.  You may get away with it if it was a dog you were treating because they are similar to humans but cats, as obligate carnivores, are very different in both their requirements and in the way in which their bodies metabolise 'foreign' substances. For example, a major route of metabolism in humans is glucuronidation but cats can't glucuronidate (which is why aspirin and many other common 'human' substances are toxic to them).  Similarly cats cannot convert the beta-carotene found in vegetables to vitamin A as dogs and humans do but they can produce endogenous Vitamin C which we humans can't.  Even their requirements for fatty acids are different because they can't convert linoleic acid to arachidonic acid. Thats just some differences that I know of and there must be many more that I don't know.  Add to that the fact that Clapton has renal issues which can affect how the body handles things and I definitely wouldn't go there.

[Christine (Blip)]

I have my doubts about things like rescue remedy but sure other things work - after all, aspirin is a natural plant (tree) extract?

OK, the inexorable draw of this thread is too much: I'm like a moth and a flame 

It's not that I think natural substances are ineffective: far from it.  Aspirin is a good example (and my own pain reliever of choice).  I use tea tree oil on minor cuts and alcohol as a recreational drug.  If I felt depressed I would self-medicate with St John's Wort as a first step.

My frustration is that many people seem to believe that 'natural' equals more gentle and with no side effects.  But other natural substances include cocaine, nicotine and arsenic.  I could go on.  If something has a therapeutic effect, it is likely to have side effects in susceptible individuals, whatever its provenance.

My other frustration is that there are too many charlatans out there preying on people's distrust of pharmaceutical companies.  I'm no apologist for the latter, but primary benefits of modern pharmacology include isolation of active ingredients and standardisation of dosage.

And of course I am steadfast in my opposition to the purveyors of snake oil and magic - but you are sceptical too so I'll leave that there 

[Mark]

They are qualified nutritionists and actually said they aren't really allowed to advise for animals.
-
I have my doubts about things like rescue remedy but sure other things work - after all, aspirin is a natural plant (tree) extract?

[Christine (Blip)]

She said it would be fine for cats but after the tea tree advice, I am not 100% confident.

I'll obviously keep away from this thread to protect my blood pressure except to say that shop assistants aren't usually qualified pharmacists (unless you're in a real pharmacy, where one might be  ).  If I want dermatological advice, I go to a dermatologist 

[Mark]

Thanks Angie & Gillian,

So many things - it's bewildering. I was bewildered in the nutrition shop today. It is how Holland & Barrett should be. She really swore by essential fatty acids.

[Angiew]

having just bought some pennyroyal shampoo for Ebony (to use as a fly epellent) dorwest have sent me a catalogue and they suggest their garlic and fenugreek tablets for any minor infections, mixed vegetable tablets to relieve irritation and cool the skin for a month. easy-green . They suggest a white meat diet or fish followed by a good quality biscuit. hair loss due to scratching kelp seaweed tablets and of couse evening prmrose oil.

www.dorwest.com

the above is from the brochure

[Gillian Harvey]

Black walnut is very harsh, too harsh to use for cats and no safer than chemical alternatives really. I know it is sometimes recommended as alternative parasite control, but I don't think I'd use it. The flower remedy is probably ok, but I'd go for valerian on its own, for pets, which you can get from Dorwest Herbs http://www.dorwest.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VAL (its liquid in a dropper bottle, which you can put on bedding, or even in food). Lavender is good for relaxing, more so than oats I would have though, and safe for cats too. 

[Mark]

I went into the nutrition shop down the road to ask about Clapton's skin. She recommended essential fatty acid - she showed me Udo's Choice but I told her I already have Viacutan  - She also recommended tea tea oil to rub in but I put her straight on that. As for tackling it at root, she recommended a flower remedy called "Highly Strung" it is made for animals so I am happy with that. She also said oats are good for relaxing and sold me an extract called Avena Sateva which also has Valerian in. She said obviously reduce the dose accordingly. Just wondered if anyone had tried it. She also recommended Black Walnut for internal parasites and another one with Black Walnut and something else to treat parasites and worms. She said it would be fine for cats but after the tea tree advice, I am not 100% confident. She said it is a good idea for people to take them once a year as well.

Anyone have any experience?

Edit - although it is called an oat extract, I just googled Avena Sateva and it is extract of cat grass seed