He's always cold.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Sorry the vets weren't more proactive CC.

[ccmacey]

I asked the private vets how much roughly would it be and they said it goes on the time it takes and they said it would take longer as his teeth are not falling out or breaking.

Believe me if I could do more for him it would be done, I think the treatment he's getting at the moment is better than getting no treatment at all.

[Millys Mum]

I saw a bank advert yesterday where they round all your debits up to the next pound and then put that in a saving account, maybe you could do that for Ollie. And do a carboot for him as the weather improves.

Its a shame all the bad payers at the vets make them refuse credit, the people that suffer are those who are honest 

Have you had a quote for cheek teeth removal? So you know what your aiming for.

[ccmacey]

When I have the money I will get his teeth out, but for now this is the most I can manage. 

[Ela]

Out of interest Ela, how many cats that have been in your care have had the op and its totally,  I mean 100% cleared up and there has been no further problems

We have over the years dozens of cats who have had all teeth (apart  from fangs) removed and no further problems. Of course we just don't know what is causing your little ones problems,  but perhaps it is worth a go if everything else has failed. Cats manage remarkably well without their teeth. My Lucy's gums and mouth was in a terrible state no amount of medication would help, her gums were almost mushy, she had her teeth removed and was fine after that with no recurrence of any problems.

[Millys Mum]

I know of 5 and all 5 are better   

I would be interested to know about the long term dosage of preds too Lynn.

[ccmacey]

Trust me if I had the funds I wouldn't be putting Ollie or myself through this, we don't need the stress.

Yes he will be on steroids for the foreseeable future, he cannot come off them.

no teeth have been removed, and its mostly the gums and lining that is inflamed, I noticed that his teeth had gone a yellow brown colour and the change has been quick, they were sort of white a few months ago.

Out of interest Ela, how many cats that have been in your care have had the op and its totally, I mean 100% cleared up and there has been no further problems?

I asked about his life expectancy and vet said it would be shorter as his body is working harder than a normal cats.

Ollie is 3 this year, how much longer will I have my baby.

[CurlyCatz]

ive got to tidy away kids toys and unload a boot load of grocery shopping but when i get a minute or two i am going to try and find out what dosage of preds is deemed acceptable with minimal side effects/contraindications

[Ela]

so is this vet going to leave him on 5mg preds everyday for good then without even considering alternate dosing etc

The question is Lynn how long is for good, possibly not long at all.

[CurlyCatz]

well what an enthusiastic go getting through vet she seems to be NOT.

personally i'd go to a private vet hun and pay for the treatment and service you want.  so is this vet going to leave him on 5mg preds everyday for good then without even considering alternate dosing etc

No ela i dont think any teeth have been removed yet and anyway the inflamation isnt just in his gums but all his mucous membrane linings of the mouth if i remember rightly.

[Ela]

He has been on antibiotics which seem

Can you refresh my memory, has the little one had its teeth out?

[ccmacey]

Back from vets and no blood tests were done, vet had a look at his gums and eyes and said you would be able to tell if he was anemic by looking at them and they would be pale, which they wernt.

I said could he be tested for Calcia virus and vet said there is no point because even if he has got it there is no way of treating it so all I would gain from that would be knowing he's got that virus, and she said many cats have it.

We talked about treatments that could be done to improve his mouth condition and vet said about interferon, she said its very costly treatment and in all the cases she has worked with using this it has never made a difference.

Vet said if he's eating and drinking he's ok at the moment, and he's just being himself and not excluding himself from the others and generally he's doing fine.

He has been on antibiotics which seem to help him more than others have but this condition can only be controled and will never go away.

[CurlyCatz]

the nurse would have held him cc.

they would / should be more than happy to do it whether you are in the room or not

(ps have you been yet , ive been out )

[ccmacey]

Omg, who's going to hold him while I faint?

Ollie is a small cat, he's only 8lb and has been that weight for years.

Im really put off now may have to go out of the room while its being done.

[CurlyCatz]

If its from his throat then he gets held and his head tilted gently upwards, the other person then clips a wee bit of hair off and takes the blood out of the vein in his neck.  Its often less painful than the leg vein actually and the blood flow is much better so its quicker and less chance of the blood clotting before they get it into the tube.

they might do it from the vein in his front leg, simalarily someone holds him and raises the vein (does the job of a tournique on humans) and the vet or nurse will take the blood sample.  if hes a good sized cat they might just do that, often those veins are smaller and theres less blood and the veins can bruise more easily..either way both are very routine.

[ccmacey]

What does it involve Lynn, so Im not too allarmed at what they are doing, Im squeamish.

[CurlyCatz]

no they dont often need to be sedated and you could get the bloods taken and return home with ollie then they could contact you later in the day with the results.

He may get the sample taken from his jugular so dont be alarmed, it is the best place to take the bloods from.

good luck.

[ccmacey]

Right my plan of action today is to get Ollie blood tested and swabed for Calci virus, Im just going to ask them to do it and hope I get a good response, the PDSA are on resources and dont seem willing to do anything else other than treat the cat at the time. And another reason its difficult for me is that when I suggest things they look at me like where are you getting this from, Well he is my cat and I care for him greatly and Im not going to be fobbed off anymore I want something done.

Oh do they have to keep the animal in for the day when doing blood tests? Do they have to be sedated?

[Desley (booktigger)]

Good luck.

[ccmacey]

At vets tomorrow. I take Ollie to the vets at least once a month so he is being checked over constantly.

[CurlyCatz]

CC have you organised the bloods etc yet ?

[CurlyCatz]

iluvcritters.

what dosage has you puss been on ?  Lots of cats can be on long term preds but normally you can get the dosage down (please read what ive written in past posts on this thread)  I think its compulsary for any animal on long term meds they are blood tested at least every year and depending on the drugs/dosage perhaps more often than that.

I know for animals on long term meds they have to be seen legally every x months (usually 3 or 6 etc) before the vet keeps prescribing.

[Iluvcritters]

Can't offer anything but am very interested in the steriod induced anaemia as My Linx has been on oral pred for a year and a half and inhaled for more than 2 years now. Please keep us posted and me and my 4 send purrs & prayers!

[ccmacey]

I don't know Lynn, the owner of Ollie's mother wasn't very clean, had loads of kids, that sort of person, the other 2 kittens that were affected came from Ollie's sister but she didn't have it as she belonged to my neighbour and when I told her she checked it out.

I thought it could of been that bad because of what he went through as a kitten, he wasn't weened and the mother was allowed out while she was nursing, so thought it could of been through lack of nutrients etc.

I also had 2 other cats when I got Ollie and within 2 weeks they both got very sick and 1 of them passed. All very suspicious to me and Ive never got to the bottom of it.

[CurlyCatz]

hereditory ??? or have they been exposed to a virus or bacterial infection ???  ie did the mother have calici or chlamidia etc etc ?? sounds like she has passed something on if litter mates affected aswell.

[ccmacey]

Thanks for the advice Lynn, going to ask the vets if they will see about him being anemic. The strange thing is that 2 kittens that are of the same family have a mild gingivitis so i think it could be a hereditary thing and Ollie didn't have the best start in life, he came to me at 4 weeks old not even weened. He has had tests for fiv/ fivl at the private vets.

[CurlyCatz]

glad i had just finished my tea before i read that ela 

millys mum, ta i'll go and read now.

[Ela]

and explain exactly what a cat with a bum like a cows backside is like and what caused it LOL

She has a bowel problem and for many years had every test known to cat and beast and no definite outcome. When she goes into the tray she lifts her tail and it looks like a cow does when passing poo. Hope that is graphic enough for you.

[Millys Mum]

Lynn, this post explains Ollies condition http://www.chaptanservices.com/purrs/index.php?topic=1441.0

[CurlyCatz]

and explain exactly what a cat with a bum like a cows backside is like and what caused it LOL

[Ela]

preds is a funny one as it can cause adverse effect but at the same time a highly useful drug..and alot of time when used you have to weigh up the pros and cons ie cat with poor quality life due to illness of some sort V side effects of corticosteriods.

That is exactly what we have had to do about my Jessica (my cat with a bum like a cows backside) weight up the pros and cons, quite simple without preds she would not still be here.

[CurlyCatz]

not a high dose for the initial dosing but yes ela for it to be a permanent without trying the reduced dosage i am puzzled by, preds is a funny one as it can cause adverse effect but at the same time a highly useful drug..and alot of time when used you have to weigh up the pros and cons ie cat with poor quality life due to illness of some sort V side effects of corticosteriods.

i would have thought cc might have been advised to atleast try 1 every second day or even 1 once per day then 1/2 every second day or some sort of regeime along that lines.

CC dont worry too much but you do need to iron out a few things with your vet.  also has he ever been on a very extended course of high dosage antibiotics such as antirobe etc..this antibiotic is excellent for mouth  and bone infections etc and can be doubled in dose if need be and on a longer than normal course safely.

[Ela]

he gets 5mg a day.

I would have thought that is a lot for such a long time.

[CurlyCatz]

thats a strange one, i was expecting you to tell me he had dermatitis or asthma ?

has any invertigations been done for the cause of gingivitus ?? ie virus testing ? i'd say that for that condition im sure he could get the dosage reduced slightly and also what actually are the conditions of his teeth like ?? any suggestions to take them out ?

Are you in a postition to get the vet to do full bloods ?

if he has steriod induced anaemia its not something you'd want to ignore.

[ccmacey]

No he hasnt had his bloods done recently, he's on steroids because of the gingervitus and its bad.

[CurlyCatz]

defo full bloods cc in my opinion and if he were mine.

why is he on preds (not that thats nec a bad thing) and why does he need 5mg per day, often with preds they can wean it down to 1/2 every second day or 1 every second day etc and can often get the dosage down like that, ive known many an animal on preds but long term can get away with every few days.

also i'd be highly suspicious and curious as to what his blood test results would be, unless of course he's been done very recently.

[ccmacey]

He's been on steroids for most of his life now Lynn and he's 3 in july, he gets 5mg a day.

[CurlyCatz]

i disagree you can tell if your cat in anaemic by looking at the gums, altho this can be a good indication its not an accurate test by any means.

RE the steroids, how long has he been on them and is it a fairly high dose ??

steroids can cause thinning of the skin and also you can get a steroid induced anaemia so i'd be pretty much looking to have a haematology blood sample ran and often it may be wise to have full biochemistry done aswell if on any meds for a longish length of time.

hope this helps, of course it may just be your cats preference to be very warm...cody i think feels the cold more than other cats ive had and he does seem to have thinner skin (and alot less fat LOL) also coz of his breed there isnt so much of an undercoat.

[ccmacey]

His gums are pink, going to have a word with the vet next time im there.

[Ela]

You can tell if your cat is anaemic yourself, just look at gums etc.