raynard ans suzanne

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I dont know where the pink slip is, so cant see what that says

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

On Mosi's transfer certificate is says that he's on the non active register and no progeny to be registered.  He's registered with the GCCF.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Yes he has lol

He is called Adouzlo Napoleon Devere and was callled Napoleon when he arrived with me and I have added Franta to his Naps LOL, closewd I could get to french ina czech   

However Ducha is Adouzlo Boromir, called Wellington when he came to me and I added Ducha (Doo-ka) onto his Wells 

So they were Napoleon and Wellington, now Franta Napoleon and Ducha Wellington 
I was keeping up the czech names that started with Kocka, but when I saw their papers I was amazed to see Boromir in Duchas name cos that is a czech name, also the sire has what looks like a welsh name.......Abergwr Delph!!!!!!!!! Incredible coincidences 

There parents were a seal point and a blue point.

The sires mother was a champion and her father was a grand champion.
The sires fathers parents were both champions.

I did a trace on the Champions on the card and going back to the Gt Gt Grand parents , there are 7 plus a grand champion and some quite impressive cats have been bred but sadly in Franta and Duchas cases the are well below show standard. But they are gorgeous even so. 

[Team Svartalfheims]

Ahh right guess it's totally different with them then. It might say things like that on the transfer slip you get then if that has lots of info on it (we don't get one of those, the ped from FIFe has all the info on it)

Oooo I bet Franta has a lovely posh name lol.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I dont think it mentions anything about the register on the birmans stuff, they are GCCF

[Team Svartalfheims]

i am going to start by asking them if mango is on the active register or reference

GCCF Pedigrees might be different but on Bilbo's it says on it that he is on non active register and no progeny to be registered so there might be something similar on Mango's.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

It may be better to write to the GCCF to avoid the risk of getting the wrong person on the end of the phone who doesn't know what to do and maybe doesn't care.  If you write I think it has a better chance of reaching the right person and getting a response.  If no response you can then follow up with a phone call, email or further letter.

Before you do either I'd sit down and write down all the individual things that you want to complain about - eg not correctly described (sold) to you, not being shown paperwork and pedigree at the outset and the long wait for registration documents, if Mango had fleas or anything when you got her and any other health problems.  Try to keep it factual and don't forget to include the breeders name and address and the registration numbers for Mango and both parents.

[COSMIC CREEPERS]

thankyou all so much you are very kind people to go to the  time and trouble thankyou 

i was a little worried about ringing gccf as i am a honest and friendly person and do not like causing trouble but i feel i need to do this and am going to

thankyou again

i am going to start by asking them if mango is on the active register or reference i just hope they do not battle me with science the last time i rang them it was to ask for help with regards to getting a persian kitten and they were quite abrupt and unhelpful

does anyone know who i need to ring and what number i really dont want to ring the wrong one 

[Reynard]

I ran this past someone who is on the Exotic breed advisory committee and she replied as follows:

In GCCF, longhaired kittens from Exotic matings are registered as Exotic variants - NOT as Persians. (the majority of Exotics carry the longhair gene). So it sounds like this registration was perfectly correct, but the breeder was not quite accurate in describing the kitten as a Persian - at least not if it was registered with GCCF. Exotic variants cannot be shown in GCCF. Howver - in other registries (FB and TICA), longhairs from Exotic parentage can be registered as Persians and shown as such.

I think that you should certainly take this up with the GCCF if this is the body that Mango is registered with, especially since she should be on the reference register rather than the active register and was wrongly described by the breeder. If you had bought her to breed or show, you would be in a lot of hot water now if you had tried to do either.

Hope this helps you

[COSMIC CREEPERS]

thats right i couldnt check out the registration cause the slip took 6 month to come 

anyway i love mango but think i will ring gccf just to get it off my chest
i just dont know if they will care 
but i think i owe it to other people and the cats 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Susanne if I understand this, Cosmic could not check on the registartion slip cos she could not get her hands on it for six months and I seem to recall this from CC, cos I have the birmans registration slip with their heritage right back to the beginning. Although I have not got round to transferring them to me cos the papers go back to the owner before last and they have not been signed when they arrived.

I do not even know if i have the contact details of the woman, who was the original owners daughter, to get in touch with her and she was quite a slippery character on the phone I have discovered.

In Mangos case I would definately get in touch with the GCCf cos I think Cosmic has been totally misled by the breeder and so is anyone else who is buying their cats.

I do love Mango though 

[ccmacey]

So is she now admitting there is such a cat as a longhaired exotic, as that web pags says the only difference is genetic, did you have a read of it cosmic?

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

She said that she had recently sold 3 females on the active reg to a man who wanted to breed

I'm always wary of judging without knowing all the facts, but she really doesn't sound like a very good breeder.  A reputable breeder will be very careful about selling cats on the active register.  It's not just a case of whether the cat is good enough to breed from, but it's also about questioning the prospective owner as to their breeding plans and experience as well as their knowledge of the breed and showing experience.  I plan to breed one day, but first I will show and become more familiar with my chosen breed.  I would not sell a cat on the active register to anyone unless I knew a lot about their breeding plans and they had already showed a neuter to gain experience of the breed etc. and had a mentor (either me or another experienced breeder).  If she sold 3 cats on the active register to one person at one time I'd hazard a guess he's a backyard breeder.  If they're all long haired and are bred to persians or long hair variants then the offspring will all be longhaired (the long haired gene being recessive to shorthair - therefore the cats can only pass on the long haired gene), but I'm not sure what they will be registered as.  There's a good chance he won't care

I do think it's worth taking this up with the GCCF if you can - they do suspend people for things like selling sick kittens, not supplying correct paperwork etc.  The question is what you could report them for - if breeding persians and exotics together isn't prohibited and the cat was healthy the question would be whether they've got money from you by false pretences by telling you you have a persian when you actually have a longhair exotic variant.  The flip side of that is they could argue the breed number is on her registration slip and it was up to you to check that out.  I'm really not sure exactly what you could report her for tbh.  Did you say in another thread that she hadn't been wormed, de-flead etc?

[COSMIC CREEPERS]

thankyou so much , when i rang th breeder a couple of weeks ago she said that there was no such thing as a longhaired exotic and mango is a persian . It just annoys me that she needs to get her facts right . The only reason she bred her female persian to a exotic is to get a mixture in the litter.
It has also annoyed me that she said that mango was so expensive as she is a persian on the active reg ( she is on the active reg ) but why would anyone want to breed a longhaired exotic . She said that she was a persian varient and could not be shown .
She said that she had recently sold 3 females on the active reg to a man who wanted to breed ( he will get a shock when he sees that the kittens are actually longhaired exotics) or maybe he wont mind
 as they still go for the same money as mangos dads breeder advised me  when i rang her i pretended that i wanted to mate mango with her male exotic and she said that people were none the wiser wether they got a lh exotic or persian . maybe i am overreacting and maybe people dont mind

im not against breeding and have thought about in the future maybe going into showing and breeding but i cant  see the point in breeding a lh exotic  female wi a persian as they will only produce lh exotics and i think breeding should be to improve breed standards ( they will of course be cute kittens like mango, but there are plent of them around ) it really has wound me up

i think mangos breeder does not have a clue although she has been breeding persians for 30 yrs she doesnt understand about exotics

although i did have to ask her for mangos transfer slip 5 times and got it when she was 6 months old , i wonder if she was trying to hide something

you would think that gccf would question why she is breeding  LH exotic varients but is that because the SH exotics in the litter are not varients and also why would they want to reg LH exotic varients on the active register it puzzles me . Do they not care this is going to end up in loads of varients on the gccf reg i can understand it for the persian male to be bred with the exotic female to keep breed type but shurly this would be better on a pure bred show persian !!!!!!!

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

I'm guessing that Mango is registered as a longhair exotic variant rather than a persian, but unless you bought her with a view to showing (and told the breeder you wanted to show her) they are essentially the same thing.  Where the breeder seems to have misled you is in not explaining properly what the difference is, and that exotic variants are on the reference register and cannot be shown.  She should have explained it all to you, including why she bred her persian to an exotic.


edited to add - just checked - the breed registration nunber you gave for Mango - 70 15dv - makes her an exotic varaint.  70 15d is the breed number for a red self exotic.  I'm guessing the v added on the end means variant.  Mango's registration number is not listed among the acceptible numbers for registration with the gccf.  She will be on the reference register which means she is a registered pedigree and there is nothing dishonest about selling a variant, just that she can't be shown.  She isn't a Persian although the difference between her and a persian is academic really.  I can understand why the breeder would describe her as a persian, but really it's rather insulting to assume owners don't know the difference and don't care - she should have described her as a longhair exotic variant.

[Reynard]

I hope you don't mind, have run this past a few breeder / cat fancy friends of mine and will see what they come up with.

I can understand how you'd get kittens with long hair out of Exotic matings but how that impinges on the registration of the progeny, I really don't know beyond the utter basics. I do suspect that Mango is actually on the reference register rather than the active if you did a check - is she GCCF registered?

[ccmacey]

http://www.centralpets.com/animals/mammals/cats/cat552.html

Have a look at this. Obviously she was just trying to get the money out of you.

[COSMIC CREEPERS]

hello there you 2 brainyacs   

av a look at post argggghh -poor cats and tell me if im right about her been  a longhaired exotic please