Advice on ending suffering :(

[JackSpratt]

I'll lock this thread now if people are in agreement. It's a terribly sad situation and not one I think any of us wants to dwell on. if any of you feel it needs to be unlocked, please PM me and let me know.

[blackcat]

I think we would all react in our own way and for me, logging into the internet would be the last thing I would consider, but as Michelle says, the episode is passed, so perhaps if we can all agree not to post on this thread any more I for one would appreciate it. Also if a mod could please lock the thread that would also be appreciated.

[Janeyk]

Wow I'm abit shocked at some of the resposes on here -

As there was a cat that was screaming in pain and an owner who was scared to death i didnt feel it was the right time to ask "why she had a cat" "why the nearest vet was 3hrs away" "why she didnt have a gun for times like this" "why she didnt have a back up plan" or tell her "that she shouldnt have a cat with no vet near by". I also didn't have time to google where she lived and point out there was a vet there !
All i could do was reassure her and comfort her, believe Me it was horrible not being able to do anything..and knowing that her cat was dieing on her lap !!!

Anyway,
Sadly I haven't heard back  

I don't think it odd at all some of us wondering how people cope with animals and no vet nearby I didn't read this thread until the next morning but it was one of the first things I thought of tbh,  a terrible situaltion, unbearable, (I also could not do any of those things suggested so for me knowng how to cope would be important). I do however think it odd the woman not contacting to say how the cat got on she must know that the person advising her would be very worried and wondering what a happened the next day.  I would certainly, if I'd exchanged emails let the person know.

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

And I am afraid I am not ashamed to have provided such advice for a painless passing.

And i thank you for your advice BC as the only thing i could think of was to shoot the cat but she didnt have a gun.
Hubby agreed with your suggestion, as he said thats how muslims kill their meat.

Shall we all just closed this thread now girls ??
I turned to purrs as i didnt know whatelse to do but it does seem that the problem (for want of a better word) has been solved now
Thank You for the advice that was given xxxx

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

It is a terrible choice that none of us would want to have to face, but I would hope with all my heart that we would all have the courage (and love) in our hearts to ease the suffering of a dying animal by whatever means we had to hand. And I am afraid I am not ashamed to have provided such advice for a painless passing.

Perfect words, bc. I'd like to ad my signature to this post. 

[blackcat]

Totally understand Sam. I think in this instance we were looking for a way that would achieve the result without pain and in a way that could be administered by the poor owner. Sadly that involves considering a range of options. Some of those discussed I know I would have a hard time doing, and I also know that if not done well, can lead to further misery. But everyone has their own limitations as to what they feel able to do, and so I guess we each have a view on which one works for us (so to speak) - erk, not a conversation you can have without creating further room for misinterpretation - going to bed now ... and giving my babies an extra hug, knowing they are safely tucked up inside ...

[Sam (Fussy_Furball)]

I think i may have expressed myself incorrectly ... I agree that it is the kindest thing to do but I don't think it's something I want to give too much thought to ... I think it is something you have to "just deal with there and then" ... buy discussing all the options available makes it all feel a little bit "premeditated" if you understand me.  

[blackcat]

It is a terrible choice that none of us would want to have to face, but I would hope with all my heart that we would all have the courage (and love) in our hearts to ease the suffering of a dying animal by whatever means we had to hand. And I am afraid I am not ashamed to have provided such advice for a painless passing.

[Feline Costumier]

I'm not shocked. Noone wants to see anything they care about suffering. I have to admit I personally couldn't do anything like that, but I do see that this lady had very limited options.

I'm not shocked either. It's very easy for the majority us to sit here and judge with 24 hour vet access and never having been confronted with a situation as awful as this one. All over the world people live rurally where access to all amenities is restricted and these people deal with this sort of thing quite often. We are the few in the UK who live very close to one another, not the many.

Nature is not always fluffy and sterile and easy, it means that we as humans with the capacity and ability to help ease the suffering of an animal in distress. I for one can only hope if I were confronted with this I would have the unselfish strength to do something to help, even if it did mean breaking my own heart and going against every natural instinct I have.

[JackSpratt]

I'm not shocked. Noone wants to see anything they care about suffering. I have to admit I personally couldn't do anything like that, but I do see that this lady had very limited options.

[Sam (Fussy_Furball)]

I have to say I am truly shocked that any of you could even think of ways to kill an animal yet alone a pet ... sorry, I mean member of the family!

I know that faced with the siutation I can honestly say hand on heart there would be no way at all I would be able to finish off one of my lot however severe the injury ... all I would be able to do would be to try and hold my baby and offer some comfort. 

[Maddiesmum]

I think with hindsight people realise they need a back up plan but I think this woman was in a terrible situation with a cat she had obviously nurtured and cared for for 22 years.  I hope she is ok.

[blackcat]

yes I am afraid some of the methods suggested seemed to be something that could cause more harm than good. I know i could not use a hammer, for instance, as I know I would 'pull' the blow at the last minute in a reflexive gesture. A terrible situation and I would not be chasing her for an update, she is probably in pieces right now ... Well done Michelle for helping a stranger in her hour of greatest need ...

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

Last night Hubby suggested holding cat by back legs and smashing its head up a wall 

I really don't know what I would have done if i was in that position, I did suggest to her holding a pillow over the cats head and mouth....think this would have been the only thing i actually could have done myself (apart from shooting)

[Wibblechick]

Only just read this thread - what an awful situation to be in ..... Advice I was once given to put out of its misery a very,  very badly injured grey squirrel.  It was run over and mashed into the road .  Cover squirrel with black plastic sack.  better still - put squirrel in black plastic sack.  Hold bag tight and insert CO2 fire extinguisher .  "Fire" extinguisher.  Now - i appreciate this is a bit grim but those of us who have cars (I don't) may well have co2 extinguisher in the car and if we come across something very, very badly injured with no possible hope ....
Lets hope no-one is ever in the situation to need to do it

[Yvonne]

Thanks for that Michelle, yes I agree some of the comments are a little over the top.

Please keep us informed if you do hear anything.

Take care  

[JackSpratt]

Michelle, it's likely you won't hear back for a while,if at all. The inevitable is likely to have happened and the lady will be dealing with her grief.

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

Wow I'm abit shocked at some of the resposes on here -

As there was a cat that was screaming in pain and an owner who was scared to death i didnt feel it was the right time to ask "why she had a cat" "why the nearest vet was 3hrs away" "why she didnt have a gun for times like this" "why she didnt have a back up plan" or tell her "that she shouldnt have a cat with no vet near by". I also didn't have time to google where she lived and point out there was a vet there !
All i could do was reassure her and comfort her, believe Me it was horrible not being able to do anything..and knowing that her cat was dieing on her lap !!!

Anyway,
Sadly I haven't heard back  

[Yvonne]

Is there any update here yet ?

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

I hope the cat has passed its suffering and is now at rainbow bridge 

Here here.

[Millys Mum]

Cant believe they live in an isolated part of canada and dont have a gun  Surely they could find a farmer quicker than a vet, they would have a gun or would at least be skilled in killing proficiently.
I hope the cat has passed its suffering and is now at rainbow bridge 

[Janeyk]

I agree that ending an animal's suffering is the priority, but unless one can do that with confidence and knowing exactly what they are doing, they could end up just causing more pain.  I think anyone living so far from veterinary treatment needs to acquire the knowledge of how to put an animal to sleep painlessly so that they can do it when the need arises.  Discussing that with a vet before the need arises is necessary imo and making sure the drugs are at hand if ever needed. Along with other basics like antibiotics.

In that situation, I think I would have given what I could to sedate the animal and then actually set off for the vet.  The reason I would have set off for the vet is because animals can linger longer than we expect and if the animal died on the way there, then at least that would be an end to the suffering.  If not, then the vet could end the suffering. 

I agree totally Susanne

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Well, the subject of the thread was to offer advise in an horrific but unavoidable and extremely urgent situation and as far as I'm concerned, that's what I did.   We may all have our feelings about what we're being asked for, and anyone is free to comment or to keep quiet, but we do have to treat all pleas for help as genuine even if we suspect they may not be.  

I wouldn't wish this particular predicament on anyone but if someone did find themselves in this state again, I hope that we at Purrs can offer help if only provide someone to listen to them without prejudice or judgement. There but for the grace of God go I, etc...  

[bonnielass]

I agree totally with 925 Dancer the location shouldnt make a difference, but i also agree that people living in these locations should have a back up plan in case of emergencies . My heart goes out to this lady , she must feel so wretched ,i hope the poor little kitty has passed over peacefully and that she is no longer in pain

[JackSpratt]

Easy access to veterinary care does not make you a better pet owner.

hear hear! 

And I third that. When I first got reptiles I had a vet that specialised about a ten minute drive away. When I needed said vet earlier this year it transpired they'd left the surgery and the closest exotics specialist was 20 miles away! Does that mean I don't care about the reptiles I have or just that it happens to be difficult to get them to a specialist should the need arise?

[Sam (Fussy_Furball)]

Easy access to veterinary care does not make you a better pet owner.

hear hear! 

[Feline Costumier]

I am maybe going to sound harsh and judgemental here but forgive me that, it is not personal.

I honestly cannot believe how closeted some of you are being. Just because we in the UK happen to either live in an urban environment or relatively close to one and all the veterinary and medical facilities this offers does not mean we are the only ones who should be allowed the joy of having pets as part of our home. By the logic some of you are using we would stop tribal women having babies for fear of death of mother and child which happens quite a lot.

Complications, health conditions, death, suffering and accidents are all part of life. Yes we should do all we can to prevent it and do our utmost to be prepared for the very worst should it happen but a cat being hit by a car in a rural location is going to be a rare occurance and IMO not a reason for someone to never have a pet. I personally would much rather see an animal within a loving home for the long term in a remote location where vet treatment may be more difficult to access than someone in the middle of a city with no care for their animal not taking said pet to the vet even when they live on top of one.

I can only hope if this was a genuine situation the cat has passed now, surrounded by those they love and being cuddled and loved to the very end.

Easy access to veterinary care does not make you a better pet owner.

[Sam (Fussy_Furball)]

How awful for the poor lady and her puss cat.  I truly hope that kitty has passed quickly and quietly to the other side and this lady is OK.

Please pass on my sincere condolences to her.

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

I see... I thought this was someone you knew previously, Michelle.

Not sure how big this area is but it seems from a quick Google it is home to a conciderable vet association and college so perhaps they were puss's regular vets. It's a shame they don't seem to operate a 24 hour helpline.

http://www.svma.sk.ca/

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

I have just got up and checked my emails but nothing!
I sent her an email before i went to bed last night, I will email her again in a min.

I just hope it wasn't a hoax (i dont think it was) , she had posted on yahoo answers and got so many horrible replies that i send her a message, we then exchanged emails addresses. She lives in Saskatchewan, Canada.

I don't feel the lady is a bad owner, the cat was 22yrs old after all so she must have done something right for the last 22yrs old.

[blackcat]

Yes I certainly agree that if you live in the middle of nowhere you should be equipped and trained in dealing with such emergencies. Unfortunately that is something most people prefer to avoid confronting until the first time the occasion arises. I imagine this poor woman will be better able to deal with the situation if, heaven forbid, it arises again. She as nothing but my deepest sympathy.

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

I assume if it's OK for pets, should they be ready to hit their kids over the head with a hammer if the hospital is too far away?

Ohhh Mark, nobody is saying it's ok, I don't think it's ok by a long shot but what options are there in this situation if a vet is miles away?  I can understand what you're saying and I do agree to an extent, but I also agree with BC in that this is their way of life and no matter whether we agree or disagree we have to think of the animal in question and this one was suffering    To do things the right way would be as I mentioned in an earlier post and have the provisions in in case of an emergency, even a hand gun would be more humane than allowing the poor cat to suffer.  I don't think anyone would want to make this decision but a decision has to made if a vet isn't to hand 

[JackSpratt]

I think there's a difference between the lady Michelle was in contact with and someone just saying they were watching their animal suffer because they couldn't afford a vets fee.

The cat Michelle posted about will have loved living in the middle of nowhere - all that territory that they didn't have to fight over, all the things to hunt. I agree it is terribly sad that the cat was suffering, and think Dawn might have a point about making sure you have the right medication to end suffering without a vets aid if necessary.

I'm hoping the little one has crossed over now and her owner is coping.

[blackcat]

As much as she loved her cat, there was obviously no back-up plan. I assume if it's OK for pets, should they be ready to hit their kids over the head with a hammer if the hospital is too far away?

Women in many countries do have to face that choice Mark. Where there is no hope of recovery and there is no means of relieving pain, the only altenative is to allow the person or the animal to continue suffering until the inevitable occurs. Try to use your imagination.

[Mark]

As much as she loved her cat, there was obviously no back-up plan. I assume if it's OK for pets, should they be ready to hit their kids over the head with a hammer if the hospital is too far away?

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

I agree with Jo and dont' think that people living in isolated, rural communities should not have pets.

I agree that ending an animal's suffering is the priority, but unless one can do that with confidence and knowing exactly what they are doing, they could end up just causing more pain.  I think anyone living so far from veterinary treatment needs to acquire the knowledge of how to put an animal to sleep painlessly so that they can do it when the need arises.  Discussing that with a vet before the need arises is necessary imo and making sure the drugs are at hand if ever needed. Along with other basics like antibiotics.

In that situation, I think I would have given what I could to sedate the animal and then actually set off for the vet.  The reason I would have set off for the vet is because animals can linger longer than we expect and if the animal died on the way there, then at least that would be an end to the suffering.  If not, then the vet could end the suffering. 

[Maddiesmum]

Well I have to disagree to an extent.  This lady obviously did look after her cat properly throughout it's life look how old it was.  I feel so sorry for her and her poor cat being in that situation and just hope that the cat went to sleep peacefully.  Hearing your animal screaming in pain when you have no easy access to a vet must be horrendous.  My thoughts are with her

[blackcat]

It is easy for people who live on a small crowded island to form views similar to these. But those who live in more remote places are frequently the people who are producing food for people who live in more crowded locations. When a population is sparsely scattered across a wide landscape, choices have to be made. I am sorry, and I know where you are coming from, but those people also have livestock and other animals, and that is necessary for their income. Try to think a little more outside the box before you rush in to judge people. Dark Moon, who has been a member of this forum for some time, has had to face similar choices in the past, as have I when I lived in the country. It is not a matter of being irresponsible, it is simply that they are living a little closer to nature (in her beauty and her horror). I would hate to have to face the choice Michelle's friend had to make last night. But it is one that is better made swiftly and humanely than by dithering around and subjecting the poor animal to a 3 and a half hour drive over goodness knows what quality roads in the back of a car ...

Sorry if this causes offence, but frankly, so too do some of the comments that have prompted this response.

[Janeyk]

Can I ask what this lady done if the cat needed to go to the vets for any other reason?

I know that's what I was thinking!!

the poor, poor thing, I do hope the cat didn't suffer too long 

I remember there was an American woman on here last year expecting sympathy as she said she was watching her cats die over a matter of days and couldn't afford to go to the vet. She got short shrift from me - unless people can take care of animals properly, they shouldn't have them in the first place. Having said that, the issue last night was ending the cats suffering, not lecturing the woman. I just hope she doesn't have or get any more animals.

exactly, that's what I said this morning to OH when I read the post, how can you look after pets properly if you live miles away from a vets?

[Mark]

Can I ask what this lady done if the cat needed to go to the vets for any other reason?

I know that's what I was thinking!!

the poor, poor thing, I do hope the cat didn't suffer too long 

I remember there was an American woman on here last year expecting sympathy as she said she was watching her cats die over a matter of days and couldn't afford to go to the vet. She got short shrift from me - unless people can take care of animals properly, they shouldn't have them in the first place. Having said that, the issue last night was ending the cats suffering, not lecturing the woman. I just hope she doesn't have or get any more animals.