Topic: AM I GOING MAD (Read 7117 times)

COSMIC CREEPERS · « **Reply #28 on:** February 15, 2007, 21:58:25 PM »

oh gill

mi hubby has gone to bed early again !!!! anyone would think he didnt want to sit with me

i will deffo post it tomorr and it can be your fri treat

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #27 on:** February 15, 2007, 21:53:18 PM »

I would defo report her to GCCF, as she has been registering kittens with them, and they need to know that her, and the sire's breeder are conning people - I better shut up, could rant about that for ages!!

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #26 on:** February 15, 2007, 21:42:44 PM »

Nowwwwwwwwwwwwww where are those Mango pictures

Not midget ones please , I want to see her in all her glory

COSMIC CREEPERS · « **Reply #25 on:** February 15, 2007, 21:38:12 PM »

ohh that is sad gill

your right about getting attached , i coud never in a million yrs swop mango
she has just shared my chrispy duck from the chinese ( and i never share chrispyduck ) so i do love her

mango is and was in good health apart from a little flea and she was very well socialised and not kept in a cage or special room or pen the kittens were all playing around the clean house

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #24 on:** February 15, 2007, 21:08:36 PM »

I think you should go to the GCCf about this cos these two breeders are deliberately misleading people and conning them out of a lot of money. Your breeder doesnt seem to know much about cats health so you are right to them it is just for the money and they are not much better than those you see advetizing on the free ads places but because thay say they have been doing it for so many years people are not usually in a position to argue with them and believe what they say.

As with you , if they get round to looking at the papers and think about showing cos they have a gorgeous cat, most would never take the cats back cos by then they love them too much. Consequently they continue to rake in the money.

My brother got a Maine Coon from a similiar kind of breeder, who was not registered and poor Chester spends so much of his time ill and he was never socialized properly. So now he is a toothless undersize boy who was a beuatiful kitten but probably has quite a limited lifespan.

COSMIC CREEPERS · « **Reply #23 on:** February 15, 2007, 17:33:39 PM »

we are looking for a new house at the mo ours is up for sale i really want somthing with a big enough garden for a small cattery as i am really interested in showing also would like to let mango out for freshair this summer

i have found areally lovely breeder pkd neg , persians and himalayans and she said that she will have a litter ready for probably july time so i have to work on mi hubby
i now know what to look for in a breder and persian and will stand for no messing

you live and learn

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #22 on:** February 15, 2007, 17:11:23 PM »

I'm sorry you've been let down by this breeder, it really annoys me because there ARE really good and caring breeders out there, but they get a bad name because of these dodgy ones

Of course your kitten should have been treated for fleas and wormed before she came to you and she certainly should have been vaccinated against cat flu and enteritis, that should all be part of the package. It sounds like you have been misled - and perhaps you could take it up with the GCCF.

Ela · « **Reply #21 on:** February 15, 2007, 15:24:19 PM »

Quote

my breeder did no flea or worm as she said indoor cats cannot get fleas ( well she had them when i got her ) ( they get worms from there mother ) and that she didnt innoculate against fealine luk as it was a con the vets trying to make money

I am LIVID at there attitude but maybe im overreacting and some people dont mind what they spend hundredsof pounds on , i feel conned

I know absolutely nothing about breeding and have no interest but I do wonder is there not someone or a body to whom this breeder can be reported.

It is also quite obvious she has no idea of the basic needs of a cat/kitten.

COSMIC CREEPERS · « **Reply #20 on:** February 15, 2007, 14:30:12 PM »

I have rang the exotic breeder ( mangos father )

i asked her if mango was a lh exotic varient and she said that she was a persian , i said yes but shes a lh exotic isnt she and she agreed !!!!
She said that she sells them as PERSIANS as thats what they are really they are the same standard and look exactly the same and in america can be show under persian

She said that if people come to her for a pet that she sells them as a persian and that people are none the wiser untill the paperwork comes through and most dont even look at it !!!!

I told her that i bought mango as i was told she was a persian and she was expensive as she had been registerd on the active register ( i am not breeding her ), so i said that that is more than been mislead

she said that i could breed mango the same and that i could sell the kittens as persian and for good money , or breed with a exotic and the exotics in the litter could be reg show

i told her that i could not mislead people the same way and that if i was going to breed, it would be to improve breed standard and show

it is obviously about the money
my breeder did no flea or worm as she said indoor cats cannot get fleas ( well she had them when i got her ) ( they get worms from there mother ) and that she didnt innoculate against fealine luk as it was a con the vets trying to make money

I am LIVID at there attitude but maybe im overreacting and some people dont mind what they spend hundredsof pounds on , i feel conned

anway we love mango i just needed to know what she was

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #19 on:** February 15, 2007, 13:14:08 PM »

Ahhh, well thats where my expertise on persians falls down a bit! I don't know much about that side of it really, because I've never shown any of mine, nor bred from them. My friend who bred some of my persians was a persian colourpoint breeder, and I've only ever had colourpoints and 1 red solid/self from her.

However I do know that exotics initially came from Persian longhairs crossed with British shorthairs, although now exotics can be bred to exotics or exotics to persians and indeed persian longhairs are used in an exotic breeding programme to keep type, conformation and quality of coat. But I don't know about persian breeders using exotics in their breeding programmes, I wouldnt somehow have thought that was encouraged.

Susanne (urbantigers) · « **Reply #18 on:** February 15, 2007, 07:16:34 AM »

Do you have a breeed number for Mango? It will be on her registration papers. Mosi, for example, is breed 63f - 63 for a Somali and f for his colour variety. That might help! The difficulty with persians is that persian incorporates lots of different colours most of which are considered a different breed, for registration purposes. Makes it a bit harder to find information on the internet! However, the registration guidelines for self persians does seem to indicate that Mango would be classified as a persian, but because she has another breed (exotic) in the previous 3 generations she is registered on the reference register rather than the full register and cannot be shown. In which case she's a legit persian, just not allowed to be shown because of her exotic genes.

http://www.gccfcats.org/regpols/selfpersregpol.pdf

We need someone like Gillian in here - she has lots of persians so may know a bit more about breeding and registration.

COSMIC CREEPERS · « **Reply #17 on:** February 14, 2007, 23:20:56 PM »

i have also decided that although i am going to ring the studs exotic breeder i should also ring gccf to ask them what she is , do you know what number i should ring and who to ask for ? i have had a look on the site but can only see a nmber at the bottom on the contacts page but not sure if i should ring a different one

Susanne (urbantigers) · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2007, 23:15:31 PM »

Quote from: COSMIC CREEPERS on February 14, 2007, 23:04:12 PM

i dont know what i have got , except a stunning cat

Yup - whatever she is technically she's a stunner

COSMIC CREEPERS · « **Reply #15 on:** February 14, 2007, 23:04:12 PM »

susanne i would appreciate it if you would look into it for me cause you have got me thinking again and i dont know what i have got

, except a stunning cat
and i was going to re-reg her with TICA too

Susanne (urbantigers) · « **Reply #14 on:** February 14, 2007, 22:59:26 PM »

Quote from: COSMIC CREEPERS on February 14, 2007, 22:33:02 PM

shes a very kind womanbut obviously not the brightest button

I think you've hit the nail on the head there!

Esp if the woman has actually registered Mango as a longhaired exotic!

The bit that's puzzling me and which I'd like to find out about is whether it makes a difference whether the sire or the dam is an exotic. If an exotic breeder mated an exotic female with a persian male then resulting long haired kits would be long haired exotic variants. But I don't know how it works the other way round - when the dam is a persian and is mated to an exotic - esp when the kitten is longhaired. Apart from not knowing whether that's acceptable in persian breeding, I would have thought that going by the convention of naming variants that would be a persian variant rather than an exotic variant. Or at least a short haired kitten would be a persian variant. But I would actually expect a long haired kitten to be a persian. But like I said - I don't know anything about persians and exotics. If I'm bored at work tomorrow this could keep me occupied!

Quote

she said that she only bred to a exotic cause she fancy having a mixture of exotics and persians in the litter

That rather worries me. If you have a pedigree breeding programme you don't breed together 2 different breeds on a whim just because you fancy having a mixture of both in the litter. You would only do it to improve type and further the breed. Esp as it seems they are 2 very separate breeds and not merely a longhaired and short haired version of the same breed.

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #13 on:** February 14, 2007, 22:53:11 PM »

Looking forward to the pics tomorrow

COSMIC CREEPERS · « **Reply #12 on:** February 14, 2007, 22:51:37 PM »

i will post one tomorr cause i am computer illiterate and hubby having a early night ,seen as its valentines night i was supposed to join him

but can now here him snoring so wont bother

she is lovely mango ,she is very special to me she is very loving and does not meoww but makes squeeky noises especially when she jumps onto the floor ,i think that is a trait from the exotic , i am glad shes a exotic in a way cause she has the funny ways of one like retreving a ball , squeeking, coming when called and sleeping next to me and is sooo gentle with the girls

my daughter age 4 told me to come into her room today and she had been playing dressing up she told me to look at mango on her bed and there she was laid on her back with 5 sparkly clips in her hair and socks on her feet

she didnt care she was fast asleep

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #11 on:** February 14, 2007, 22:41:52 PM »

Yes that sounds like the best way to go.

We need some pictures of Mango cos I havent seen one for ages and I know she is gorgeous.

Like you said not the brightest button

COSMIC CREEPERS · « **Reply #10 on:** February 14, 2007, 22:33:02 PM »

well good luk there suzanne cause its a tricky one

hey up gill - i have always wanted a persian and we bought mango after saving hard i was told that she was a persian but could not be show as she was a varient

its not till i wanted to look into why i could not show her then i noticed that on her transfer slip it said exotic longhair ! it just annoys me that shes still insisting mangos a pure persian except for been a varient she said that she only bred to a exotic cause she fancy having a mixture of exotics and persians in the litter , she obviously thinks that just cause they have shorthair they are exotics and longhair persians ( very simple )

shes a very kind womanbut obviously not the brightest button

i have got the number of the breeder of mangos father the exotic and apparently she shows and has done for 40 yrs so tomorrow i am going to give her a ring and get to the bottom of it , the breeders are friends though so i cant see why she hasnt explained it to her !!! i,m very puzzled

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #9 on:** February 14, 2007, 22:18:01 PM »

All I could suggest is that you print off the information and send it to the breeder. Its very wrong of her to sell a cat as something its not and as an experienced breeder she has no excuse.

is she registered with the breed club cos if so she should not be doing this and they would take a very dim view.

Did you buy Mango to show her and if so did you tell the breeder, cos if yoou did and she is not eligible, I think the breeder owes you some money back.

Susanne (urbantigers) · « **Reply #8 on:** February 14, 2007, 22:10:46 PM »

exotics didn't come from persians - the breeder is wrong there. They came from british shorthairs acc to the exotic cat club, although I assume persians are the "longhaired" cats mentioned in the link below. Exotics are a different breed to persians and aren't merely long haired persians so a long haired exotic isn't the same thing as a persian although they look very similar.

http://www.exotic-cat-club.org/aboutexotics.html

edit - found another link to another exotic cat club, and they say that persians should be used as outcrosses in order to maintain type. So the persiaon x exotic cross that produced Mango is an encouraged cross. What I don't know is whether persian breeders are allowed or encouraged to use exotics in their breeding programmes. I would assume they are since your breeder has the persian mother and bred her to an exotic father, but that does surprise be a bit tbh as persians are a well established breed and I wouldn't have thought they'd need to use other breeds in their breeding programmes.

Got me interested in this now! Must see what I can find out about persian breeding programmes.

COSMIC CREEPERS · « **Reply #7 on:** February 14, 2007, 22:02:28 PM »

the breeder said that all exotic sh came from persians and thats why she is a persian! well i though that exotics came from a mix of persian and american shorthair

ohhh i am very confused but not as much as the breeder is obviously
she did get a little abrupt and i do like her and do not want to offend her so after me saying yes she is exotic lh and her saying persian and it went on for a little while i thought i had better shut up

i paid a lot of money for mango and i feel like she has mislead me ( intentionally or not ) and she is still selling Lh exotics as persians
mango is exactly like a persian and reg gccf although she could never be show bcause of gccf rules she can be in TICA FIFE

I think i am right and she probably does not understand

Susanne (urbantigers) · « **Reply #6 on:** February 14, 2007, 21:44:28 PM »

This is the GCCF registration guidelines.

Longhaired exotic variants are registered on the reference register rather than the full register which is I guess prevents them from being shown. The breeder is clearly wrong to say there is no such thing as a longhaired exotic - there clearly is!

http://www.gccfcats.org/regpols/exoticregpol.pdf

COSMIC CREEPERS · « **Reply #5 on:** February 14, 2007, 21:43:11 PM »

Thats what i thought , i have reserched that mango would be good in breedin programs for exotics but cannot show under gccf rules

Sam (Fussy_Furball) · « **Reply #4 on:** February 14, 2007, 21:35:26 PM »

Maybe this will help: http://www.acfacats.com/longhair_exotic_standard.htm

Susanne (urbantigers) · « **Reply #3 on:** February 14, 2007, 21:31:16 PM »

I don't know much at all about persians or exotics or the rules and regulations surrounding variants but Mosi's grandmother is a Somali variant - ie she resulted from a mating between an aby and a somali and has short hair- she cannot be shown but can be used in breeding programmes. She is not an Abysinnian even though she looks just like one. I'm guessing the same applies to Mango. To be eligible to be shown both parents would have had to be persians. She is still pedigree and can be registered but cannot be shown under GCCF rules.

Linda (Bengalbabe) · « **Reply #2 on:** February 14, 2007, 21:24:17 PM »

This is a bit of a strange one as the breeder would normally stipulate the breed on the registration forms she submits to GCCF/TICA etc so certainly someone has it wrong. If both her parents are not of the same breed i.e. persian then it does seem unlikely this is what she is but I'm no expert in these breeds. Anyone else have a view?

COSMIC CREEPERS · « **Reply #1 on:** February 14, 2007, 21:19:56 PM »

hello i havbeen doing a lot of reserch on my cat mango who i though was a persian , i wanted to show her but she is a varient so decided to look into it further
her father was a exotic shorthair gccf and her mother persian gccf
therefore i have found mango is a longhaired exotic and this i swhy i cannot show her unless i re-register her with TICA instead of GCCF

but i have spoke to the breeder of mango and she said there is no such thing as a longhair exotic and that she is a persian , i told her that on her pink transfer slip it says LH XO and that is longhair exotic but she still says i am wrong

am i going mad

i cant tell a breeder of 30 yrs that she is wrong and she will not have it , have i got it wrong , i,m sure gccf havnt

Author Topic: AM I GOING MAD (Read 7117 times)