What is the right thing to do for my Phoebe?/Healing vibes for Phoebe please, sh

[madkittyrescue]

I'm really sorry to hear your having such a rough time.  Not much I can add as the others have summed up my comments already.  

 I'll keepmy fingers crossed that things at Myahew come through for you hun. xx

[Gillian Harvey]

One of my cat sitting customers has been crushing the felimazole for her cat for the past few years, as it was the only way the cat would take it. Vet ok'd it apparently.

[clarenmax]

Clare - that is interesting about crushing the Felimazole, as I have some here that says you can't crush them.

Hmmm, not sure about that then!  My friend crushes them and puts them in liquid to syringe if her cat won't take them hidden in chicken?  Maybe its more a case of get the medication inside him than anything else?

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Thanks for the info cos I said I know very little about how this works. 

[Desley (booktigger)]

Clare - that is interesting about crushing the Felimazole, as I have some here that says you can't crush them.

I hope Mayhew can help PAv.

[pappilon]

Gill, in Phoebe case i think is best for her to remove them because for some reason from the very begining every time she was put on medications, after few days or like this time weeks she simply refuses to take any food with tablets in !! I have tried crushing them, hiding them in fresh meat, every thing but once she taste one then that is it, she just wont eat.

I was also told if they might be able to remove only one now but the problem will come back and then they can do second op in a year to remove the other one, but is best if they can do both at the same time and then she wont be needing anymore thyroid tablets, thats why i was considering it when we discussed it with Caroline in October.

I still have to give her the steroid for her other condition , but i think  wth steroids they can give injection which lasts for weeks .

I know the thyroid can cause many other conditions thats why Caroline wanted to stabilise her thyroid first and then consider doing the full biopsy for her intestines, so basicly if they remove the glands one problem is sorted .

[Millys Mum]

Gill if you have the thyroids removed then the cat doesnt need to be on medication any longer but there are issues with parathyroids and calcium levels.
Hyperthyroidism is caused by a tumour on the thyroid gland/s making them produce too much hormone so you need to control the hormones with tablets or surgery or you have problems with a very fast heart rate

http://www.fabcats.org/owners/hyperthyroidism/info.html

http://www.darwinvets.com/cats/hyperthyroid.htm

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

i am not a vet and also know very little about cat biology but i think there needs to be reason to remove the thyroids. yes cats have two, one more than humans and kocka had one removed due to a tumour.........my questions are, what is the problem with the  thyroids and what happens if both are removed......surely they need one, or dont they?

would this put her on permanant necessary medication just for her to stay alive and what is the difference between keeping them and on meds or removing both?

what is the long term prognosis in each case?

[pappilon]

Pavvy that price is outrageous in comparison.    I hope Mayhew take her, sweetie.

I know sweet heart, but you know i have been paying it both for Boy and Phoebe in last 12 months, and if it wasnt for what happened yesterday i would have carry on , even though is been putting a lot of pressure on me. I always belived i brought Boy and Phoebe from Mayhew to give them a better life and like you, i used to have my old vet do home visits so Phoebe doesnt get streesed . Caroline is always been really good to Boy and has done so much to help him and i do understand that its not her surgery there and i am sure if she could she would operate on Phoebe , Its only after yesterday that i dont feel comfortable with the place any more.
This morning when i went there, Jamie was out in reception and when Phoebe was admited in October he and Sean treated her and then i asked for Caroline, but today he didnt even asked me why i am standing there or is there anything he can do, i waited until this really young guy called Adam came and told me that her white blood cells are still very low and there are no changes , also she is been on antibiotics injections, and i asked if i can take her home tomorrow he said if you do you have to give her Synolux tablets. So basicly now if she comes home i have to put her on antibiotics and felimazole and ...., he said call tomorrow at 9 am andwho ever is working will let you know if there are any changes!
I really dont think i am expecting too much after all they are going to give me yet another huge bill tomorrow for this 3 days and i am just really disappointed.
Ruth , i didtnt know how long it takes to Bromly, thanks. One hour in the car will drive her mad, poor girl.
I really hope the vets in mayhew agree to operate on her they have treated her before for broken jaws and atleast i know they wont keep her there more than needed just to charge, i am more than happy to donate to them knowing they look after her. Anyhow i see how every thing goes.Thankyou again.X

[Kittybabe (Ruth)]

Pavvy that price is outrageous in comparison.    I hope Mayhew take her, sweetie.

Michelle, having lived where Pav does and visted friends in Bromley from there, in London traffic, even using North Circ etc its an hours drive in good conditions. Phoebe would go mental wish your vet was closer just this once 

[Janeyk]

the Vidalta caused a drop in white blood cell count, so Pheobe can't have it anymore. Vidalta is Carbimazole and Felimazole is Methimazole -  they are different drugs.

I was wondering what Vidalta was, both my cats (and myself) took Carbimazole, they are very tiny I would have thought they could be crushed into the food but yes they do cause drop in wbc although that's not always too bad so long as they keep a check on it.  Anyway, whatever you decide to do I wish you the best xx

[Dawn F]

good luck hun, I know you love her very much but you shouldn't have pressure on you to find that sort of money, I hope the mayhew will help

[pappilon]

I know she doesn't like the carrier but are there any other vets locally you could ring and ask - the difference in price is outrageous

Dawn, thats what i am going to do all they tomorrow.
First i am going to Mayhew and then if they dont agree to take her in,i will start searching.
The other thing is last 3 times that Caroline examined her she couldnt feel her thyroid glands, but she said it some times happens , but also she said it may be that they are ina position that can not be removed then i can take her for Radio active Iodine therapy, but i dont want to put her through that first the places are all outside London and also then she has to stay in for one month , but i think if they glands can be removed then is the best option for her in long term .

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

Thankyou Michelle.

Hi Hunny,

Between £250 - £300 !!
I will have an exact figure for you later
My Vets is in Bromley.

Thankyou for finding out for me, the price they gave me includes the 3 days after op care as well,cos i was told if they manage to remove both thyroid glands then Phoebe has to stay in for 3 days to monitor her calcium levels. But still the difference is huge, and i always knew this vet is more expensive than others but not this much, i guess is to do with where they are, i cant see any other explanation, or may be i dont know much about these things.
The problem is i cant take Phoebe to Bromley , i leave in NW London and its a long drive, she will hurt herself in the carrier, but i really appreciate you finding out at least i have some idea now. x

Even with 3 days in the vets the price is a huge differnece
NW london to Bromley isnt really that far hun but understand your concerns.
I would, however, ring some other vets closer to you....£2000 is a  take !

[pappilon]

Just catching up with this thread Pav, and sorry to hear you're having such a dilemma at the moment.

How long as Phoebe been on the Vidalta tablets?  I ask as Max is on the same ones, he was originally on one tablet a day, which is now one every other day as his levels dropped too low.

Not sure of the difference between Felimazole and Vidalta, apart from V is a time release tablet so has to be  taken same time every day, whereas F sometimes has to be taken 2-3 times a day, but can be crushed up.

This is all very new to me as well hun, wish I had more info I could pass on 

Hi Clare, Phoebe was put on 10 mg Vidalta in October and then her level came down from 182 to 80, but it was still high so then they changed it to the 15 mg one and i was told she should take them for one month and then go back for more blood test, today i went to the vets and i asked them if they got the result from yestrday but they send the test for thyroid to different lab so they said it takes few more days for result to come back so right now i dont know how low is hers.
X

the Vidalta caused a drop in white blood cell count, so Pheobe can't have it anymore. Vidalta is Carbimazole and Felimazole is Methimazole -  they are different drugs.

Gillian thankyou for the information.x
Today when i went there they said if she goes on Felimazole then she has to take 2 a day, but i dont know how can they say that if they havent got the blood results back yet!!

[Dawn F]

I know she doesn't like the carrier but are there any other vets locally you could ring and ask - the difference in price is outrageous

[pappilon]

Thankyou Michelle.

Hi Hunny,

Between £250 - £300 !!
I will have an exact figure for you later
My Vets is in Bromley.

Thankyou for finding out for me, the price they gave me includes the 3 days after op care as well,cos i was told if they manage to remove both thyroid glands then Phoebe has to stay in for 3 days to monitor her calcium levels. But still the difference is huge, and i always knew this vet is more expensive than others but not this much, i guess is to do with where they are, i cant see any other explanation, or may be i dont know much about these things.
The problem is i cant take Phoebe to Bromley , i leave in NW London and its a long drive, she will hurt herself in the carrier, but i really appreciate you finding out at least i have some idea now. x

[clarenmax]

the Vidalta caused a drop in white blood cell count, so Pheobe can't have it anymore. Vidalta is Carbimazole and Felimazole is Methimazole -  they are different drugs.

Ah I see, thanks Gillian 

[Gillian Harvey]

the Vidalta caused a drop in white blood cell count, so Pheobe can't have it anymore. Vidalta is Carbimazole and Felimazole is Methimazole -  they are different drugs.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Thats the kind of price I would have expected too Michelle.

I think Pav has a problem getting tablets into Phoebe cos she is a semi-feral and looking at her post the vets were too scared to administer them!!

[clarenmax]

Just catching up with this thread Pav, and sorry to hear you're having such a dilemma at the moment.

How long as Phoebe been on the Vidalta tablets?  I ask as Max is on the same ones, he was originally on one tablet a day, which is now one every other day as his levels dropped too low.

Not sure of the difference between Felimazole and Vidalta, apart from V is a time release tablet so has to be  taken same time every day, whereas F sometimes has to be taken 2-3 times a day, but can be crushed up.

This is all very new to me as well hun, wish I had more info I could pass on 

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

Thankyou Michelle.

Hi Hunny,

Between £250 - £300 !!
I will have an exact figure for you later
My Vets is in Bromley.

[Desley (booktigger)]

i think you are doing the right thing by just giving her the meds Pav, it is too stressful on her otherwise. Good luck with convincing the vet

[Janeyk]

Hi,

I think I'd be tempted to get her on meds for the thyroid and see how she goes rather than pay for the op straight off.  I know with people, having been hyperthyroid myself they would try drugs first and even if operating get you stable with drugs beforehand.  That's just my opinion though, I would think you've nothing to lose by doing that.

[pappilon]

 Thankyou Michelle.

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

Sorry but that price sounds ridiculous !!

I am in London too and I'm quiet sure it wouldnt cost that much at my vets (infact i am going to email my vet and ask)

[Kittybabe (Ruth)]

Oh sweetie, you do what you feel is right. 

[Maddiesmum]

Oh Pav I am sorry you are having all these dilemmas and especially when you are not feeling too well.  If you are not comfortable there is a reason for it, your subconscious is pointing something out to you so go with your gut feelings.  Best of luck to you.  How is BOY doing and did Mr Tramp ever come back?  

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

 

[pappilon]

Gill,I know in London the Vets are more expensive and this surgery is more expensive than others, but  its close to my home, 10 min drive and Phoebe as soon as she is in carrier ,starts chewing the wire to the point that some times she bleeds from her mouth so i cant take her to long distance vets and Caroline has been really good to Boy the way she handels him so last year i transfered Phoebe here. I have never mentioned how much they charge but when ever i read other peeps tread about blood tests and other charges, i thought to my self wow they are charging me so much but accepted it, today i mentioned the charges cos something didnt feel right and i wanted others opinion, as i said there was no arrangement for operation but the first thing the owner said was leave her for 5-6 days here and then we do the op and everything happened and decided in matter of minutes in reception thats why it didnt feel right.

Ruth, sweetheart i know Caroline is her own boss but the respond i got from her in reception the first time today was sharp NO, when i said but arent you going to do the op on her, only when i went back after 2 hours and said i will pay the charge of consultaition because i need to ask so many thinks thats when we went to room and she convinced me that the head of surgery is the best and does this op all the time,i just want to do whats best for Phoebe. Now the thing is i dont even want to insist on Caroline to do the op because even if she does, then Phoebe has to stay for 3 days after the op and other vets have to monitor her so i am not sure how everything works just dont feel right .
This evening i was asked how Phoebe takes her med again cos they wanted to give her her blood pressure tablet and i told them she wont take it in her food but if some one put it in fresh meat and hold it she will take and i was told  they dont want to risk their nurses finger so they leave it ! I mean she does attack and scratch but she doesnt take the finger off.

I just want to say thankyou for the replies when i came home cos of crying all day and being tired and not well i couldnt think or decide but now that i am thinking it and talking about it i started to think that i will leave her till her blood cells are back to normal in next 2 days and then will tell them i dont want to do the op till new year, mean while i am going togo to Mayhew home thats where she is from and i will ask them if their vet is happy to do it because they handel cats like her all the times and if they agree then i will donate the money to them or ask them if they can recommend a different vet  

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Yes I understand that Ruth but think the price that has been quoted for the op is outrageous and also the treatment that Pav is getting.

[Kittybabe (Ruth)]

Gill, Caroline is her own boss, she has her business as a travelling vet, so she has an affiliation with this surgery. Overall, if Phoebe is interned there (just like Lexy was) she is a patient of both the clinic and Caroline's, however, the clinic is the one that gets paid for the surgery (as its their practice), Caroline if she performs the surger I believe gets a percentage. (I think).

[Kittybabe (Ruth)]

Pavvy 

I agree, first find out the results then make the decision. Caroline is her vet not B..  If you want Caroline to do the surgery (if its needed) then insist on it. The politics between who does what is between them and should not affect you. If you want I can have words with Caroline  do not allow B to bully you into leaving Phoebe there if you are not comfortable with it.

for you. xx

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

This really worries me and I mean really.

Kocka had a thryroid removed and the cost was nothing like that and I think they definately have £ signs in eyes. Why cant Caroline see Phoebe , this makes no sense.

If Caroline said she would do an op then why should she be overruled.......dont they think she has the knowledge or is it the head of surgury costs more?

I have a semi feral and its a nightmare should she need medication and if it was on a temporrary basis , I think my vets would offer to do it because she had to be sedated so she could be looked at.

I could not medicate Kocka at all, except the blood pressure meds which a 1/4 of a tab could be crushed and she would eat off my finger in ad diet.

I wish I could offer some words of advice because this situation seems out of control cos they have you dangling on the end of  money and your love for Phoebe. Meee, I would look for a vet that was more sympathetic to cat and human and was willingly to be more sensible and also was cheaper. I know that isnt always possible and do not know what your travel arrangements are but I just cant believe the size of the amount they are wanting to charge for what is I believe a straight forward operation.

I would also want to know in private what Phoebes prognosis was if she had that operation (Kocka had a non-malignant tumour) considering any other ailments she has and her age. I would want a private discusion with the vet incharge of her health and expect to be able to go back to the same vet and ask questions in person.

I also cant believe that they will not let you see the vet you had an appointment with and why they abuse your rights by discussing this in public.

[pappilon]

Hi Gillian, yes we have been having a hard time.

Sorry i forgot to say after the second admission, when they prescribed Vidalta(10 MG), Phoebe was on for 6 weeks and then they did another test and said her thyroid has come down to 80, still high so they increased the dose to 15 mg. I am going to ask them tomorrow to see if its lower now, but i was just told that the low white cells is because of the Vitalda and since she hasnt been taking them for last 2 days by fridays she might be ok. I am sorry if my post is not clear , just toomuch to take in, emotionally and financially
AS for the biopsy and ultrasound they said they can only see that the wall of her intestines is thickened but they cant say for sure if its cancer unless they do full biopsy and i know Caroline mentioned some times the thyroid causes so many other problems so she said not to worry toomuch abot that till her thyroid is stabilised.
Thankyou for your advise.

[sheryl]

Hi Pav - so sorry that you are having such a rough time Hun. 

I have to agree with Gillian and if you are in any way unsure or uncomfortable with surgery then go with your instincts.

Take care - love and huggles for Phoebe xxx

[Gillian Harvey]

Hello Pav - poor you and poor Pheobe, you have both been having a time of it havent you? 

If it was me I'd want to bring her home with meds to get her stabilised before deciding on the operation. Obviously her white cells need to be right, but once they are right, I believe that they also then have to stablise the thyroid before doing the thryoid operation anyway, so she would have to be on felimazole for a  few weeks, then blood tested to see if the thyroid levels have stabilised..  Am I right that you havent had the results of the biopsy and scans? because if not, I really think you need to know the results of those before you make any decision about the thryoid op.

[pappilon]

Hi , I havent been here for a while due to my own health and few other reasons, but i really appreciate your opinions.
For the one who doesnt know Phoebe she is a rescue cat very nervous , dont like to be touched, dont like people and never plays and basicly get stressed by everything, she came to me 18 months ago and has improved, i can touch her some times but after few stroke and she attacks I dont mind i love her somuch and i leave her to do as she is comfortable.

Two months ago i noticed she is loosing weight rapidly and i made appointment in vets with Caroline (THe vet who treats my other cat Boy)
to see her , but she is in surgery only on Wednesdays so i had to wait few days but over night Phoebe stopped eating and looked really uncomfortable so i rushed her to surgery and they admited her, did full blood test, Ultrasounds, fine needle biopsy and in the evening they called me to collect her, i was told the results will be back in a week time but they can see she has inflammed intestines but they wont know if is cancer or not unless they do full biopsy and first they want to see the other results, well we came home that was a tuesday, by Thursday morning she got so weak that i had to rush her back and this time they kept her in for 4 days under drips and they did more blood test but didnt sent away! When i went to collect her i was told her thyroid level is 182 in normal cats is about 50, so they put her on Vidalta, also i was given stroid for her intestines and tablet for blood pressure and Xanax to keep her calm. At this point i reminded them that its going to be very difficult to give medication to Phoebe, the onlyway is to put it in her food but last time she needed antibiotics after few days she spoted the tablets in the food and refused to eat for 2 days and then for days was just leaking the food first, and they said they know for long term she is not the type to take meds but first we have to bring her thyroid level down before doing anything.
Since then i have been taking all the food away early evening to make sure she is hungry in the morning and by 5 or 6 am cos she is starving i can hide the tablets in fresh meat somedays it just doesnt work and i have to try and she get stressed, it hasnt been easy Two days a go she stoped eating again and no food means no tablet so this morning i called Caroline and she was due for blood test soon anyway when we got there Caroline was in surgery and i had to waitand the owner walked in asked if some one else can see her and i said no, she is under care of Caroline so he checked the computer and asked what is the problem? I explained and hesaid well you should leave her for 5 or 6 days here we give her the med and then we can operate on her, i discussed a while a go the option of removing her thyroid with Caroline and she said its best for a cat like Phoebe who dont take tablets easy and she said she has done the op before and she will do it if we decide, but this morning when the owner was talking to me and i said i waite for Caroline then he went downstairs and she came up and said she was about to start, and out in reception we discussed everything and she said its best to operate but she is not going to do it and the head of the surgent can do this, tomorrow and the cost is going to be around £2000 I agreed signed papers but for some reason i wasnt comfortable, i just think the owner told her that some oneelse should do the op cos she doesnt work in that surgery only use it once a week to see paitient and some op and when the owner was talking to me and reading her file i could see the £ Sign in his eyes may be i am wrong but in last 2 months i have paid more than £2500 for her tratments and tests and today i just didnt feel comfortable so after walking for 2 hours in the streets i went back and said i have changed my mind i want the blood test and ultrasound done and see the results first and then decide, so Caroline came to see me and i told her i a not comfortable for some one else to do the op but she assured me the woman who does it is the best and that is the best thing to do for Phoebe and still after opening her the position might be in her chest and they might not be able to remove them i agreed but still thinking why the first time we discussed this she sgreed to operate and today she said she cant i am sure is to do with the money and the ownerwants his team , well i just had a call from her that Phoebe pre op results are back and they cant op cos her white blood cells are very low andits to do with Vidalta tablets so now they want to keep her untill she is better with her blood cells and then operate so it means at least one week in there, she is going to be so stressed and depress, i am sorry if its such a long tread but i had my op last week and am not feeling well and cant think whats the best thing to do! Thats when Phoebe's blood cells are back to normal , do i let them do the operatio or shall i try to put her on felimizole and see how she gets on? With Vitaldai can not crush the tab in fod but with Felimazole i can. Appreciate your thoughts and advise.