FREEDOM FENCE!! - is this the answer???

[Dawn F]

as a person who gets static shock off almost everything i'd say it must be pretty horrible

[Ela]

Katzecure?

I always think that may well keep cats in but I wonder if it could keep other cats out. I suspect not.

[Den]

I really do believe that they shouldn't be used often but they have their place, kinda like a sharp tap on a childs hand is less painful than being burnt on a stove, but teaches a repeat offender that the stove is associated with shock.

If they had a place there wouldn't be so many organisations petitioning to ban them ... Dogs Trust, The Kennel Club, RSPCA, APDT (Association of Pet Dog Trainers). Wales has already banned their use.

[Indys Mamma]

7 years training with our dog (from 4 different behaviourists) and our dog was on last chance from police on put down list for getting fighting mad, he was a labrador, never mistreated in his life, no reason to be violant and if you let him dominate he was calm... until challenged.

As I said, last ditch effort and we took it rather than destroy a 98% perfect dog... only if we challenged him when he was charging after sheep was there a problem. and as soon as we used the spray collar (couldn't afford the shock collar, which as I mentioned before I have used on my own wrist. no pain just a buzz) within 2 weeks he would still bark at a sheep but come back when called and was once more useful in his working life... and alive

I have also seen both spray and buzz collars very successfully used to deter a dog from dangerous items such as venemous snakes/fox dens etc.

I really do believe that they shouldn't be used often but they have their place, kinda like a sharp tap on a childs hand is less painful than being burnt on a stove, but teaches a repeat offender that the stove is associated with shock.

[Millys Mum]

Have to agree with Den, I am afraid. Shadow had obedience training and if I tell him to wait, he waits. The first time he saw a mob of sheep when off leash, he was with an english pointer, who as you know will be off like the wind after anything that moves. Shadow thought long and hard about following while I stood there reinforcing the order to wait, then come to me, but come he did, and this despite the fact the other dog was still running around like a mad thing. Any dog can be trained by positive reinforcement, they don't need pain-threats to get them to obey ... Those are just quick fixes for people who are unwilling to put the time in, IMO

I agree, whether its pain or discomfort theres not much difference to me, humans are smarter than animals so why resort to those kind if "training aids".

[blackcat]

Have to agree with Den, I am afraid. Shadow had obedience training and if I tell him to wait, he waits. The first time he saw a mob of sheep when off leash, he was with an english pointer, who as you know will be off like the wind after anything that moves. Shadow thought long and hard about following while I stood there reinforcing the order to wait, then come to me, but come he did, and this despite the fact the other dog was still running around like a mad thing. Any dog can be trained by positive reinforcement, they don't need pain-threats to get them to obey ... Those are just quick fixes for people who are unwilling to put the time in, IMO

[Den]

so 'treat training' with a dominant dog will normally fail/dog can stop obeying just cos they are not hungry.

That is SO not true!! Positive training can be done very successfulyl with all types of dogs from aggressive, dominant to submissive. The dominance theory training is also very outdated.

No animal needs a shock collar to be trained.

[Indys Mamma]

we have a water spray collar that we used when training our dog... we pressed a button and it squirted water at him... we resorted to it after we could not stop him chasing sheep whilst off the lead... not much use in a gun dog

We figured that since general obediance training wasn't working and he was perfect on the lead as you could distract him that we had to do something, he wouldn't adapt to just being a pet/away from the country. All it does (and all the shock collars do) is distract him, I wouldn't use the invisible fence thing because it is just scary and to the animal it isn't related to anything, but for a last resort training tool and used in combination with vocal commands it is very useful. Using dog psychology... if you give up food to the dog.... you are weaker, less strong (in treat form) it is why as a rule you should eat before your dogs at meal times etc, so 'treat training' with a dominant dog will normally fail/dog can stop obeying just cos they are not hungry.

I do however believe that you shouldn't be able to buy them willy-nilly, you should only get them under a trained behaviourist and learn 'how' to use them first.

BTW the training collars don't hurt if you use them correctly, it feels like one of those 'ab-master' pads, just causes a spasm

[tigerbaby]

Hmm I thought there was a reason why I hadn't hear anyone mentioned this on here 

Still weird though - as Rs mum was recommended it by their (countryside) vets. And, as far as I know it is a good vet clinic. Oh well!

[Mark]

Theres shock collars on ebay, are they legal in the uk? Didnt want to report if nothing could be done 

I think some vets sell them to stop dogs barking - I can't say I agree with punishment training 

[Millys Mum]

Theres shock collars on ebay, are they legal in the uk? Didnt want to report if nothing could be done 

[Ela]

A multi millionaire I know has this or similar round the property, only last week one of his cats was killed on the road.

[Gillian Harvey]

I agree with Mary, it would be worth having someone come round to see what could be done with your garden to cat proof it. What about Purrfect fence system - have you seen that? http://www.purrfectfence.co.uk/ or what about Katzecure? http://www.katzecure.com/index.php

[Den]

Is that the same thing they do for dogs ?

Yes it is.

[summerleft]

Is that the same thing they do for dogs ?

We move in two weeks would love to stop the kitties getting out but I dont think its possible the garden is so small and everyone elses so inviting LOL

[maryas]

Helena you might think your garden is impossible to cat proof but maybe you should have a word with a joiner and he could make some suggestions for you.  I've got a joiner I know coming to sort my garden out in the New Year for Bonnie.  Good luck.

Mary

[Mark]

I would also say that being approved by American vets means nothing. Don't forget a lot of them aslo approve of and practise barbaric declawing - they have totally different ideas about animals than we do.

[tigerbaby]

Oh, I see. That is so weird - R's mums local vet is recommending them. I got mega excited for a second - thinking this could be the answer.

[Baggy]

On holiday in the States once myself and my ex saw a dog loose on a lawn, no cars outside and no sign of anyone in.  Thinking it had escaped, we kept calling it over so we could look at its collar tag - every time it got within two feet of us it started whimpering and would back away.  We spent about 10 minutes going through this repeatedly until one of the neigbours over the road came over to tell us that they had an invisible fence up.  Poor thing, it got loads of shocks because of us .

The neighbour said the dog never seemed to realise where the boundary was and was always getting zapped  

[Den]

Does that mean it's cruel? Sorry if I sound braindead.. but it says on the website that it is not harmful to animals? Our garden is nearly impossible to catproof so if this worked it would be ideal for us.

I personally feel they are very cruel. They are basically shock collars. I know this is the dogtrust (apologise for that), but they are desperately wanting to ban them in the UK. The Kennel club are the same.

http://www.dogstrust.org.uk/information/poppysopinions/shockcollars/

[blackcat]

It's 'not harmful', in that it does not cause the animal any physical wound. But it will cause emotional distress so I would not be too keen on using it myself ...

[tigerbaby]

Does that mean it's cruel? Sorry if I sound braindead.. but it says on the website that it is not harmful to animals? Our garden is nearly impossible to catproof so if this worked it would be ideal for us.

[Kirst]

Im not sure I like the idea of my puss getting a shock - also is reliant on the collar , and we all know how easily they lose those!

[Den]

Nope, please, please avoid this. I hate these things with a passion. It's an invisible fence .......... a wire is placed in the ground around the perimeter. A box thingy on a collar is attached to the animal. If the animal crosses the boundary they receive a shock. The way its done is the animal learns if it doesn't cross the boundary it doesn't receive a shock. They are NOT full proof, some animals will run straight through them if they see something that they want to chase.

They are very popular in America and I REALLLLLLLLLLY hate seeing people recommend them.

[tigerbaby]

Robins mum just e-mailed us - asking us to look this up.. it's an invisible fence. I have seen everything now - does anyone know anything about it? It's even vet approved.


http://www.freedom-fence.co.uk/pet-containment/index.php