is vet assistance always right?

[Millys Mum]

Does he have his normal biscuits down too?

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Thanks for the onfo Janeyk but I would not be happy for him to have steroids unless the idea came from the vet as he really isnt that sick....this is whats making it si hard, he wasnt sick when all this started and now we are going through a nightmare presumable as an after effect of the GA and possible that he is just totally stressed out from all the meds, time at vet, travelling etc.

Today he has finally started to eat more of the kd biscuits, which really is they key to this as they are a complete food and the vet doesnt have anymore until next week! I have ordered them yesterday once he started to eat more but they will not arrive until next week either.

So the poor boy has been travelled for hundreds of miles, poked and prodded, been a pincushion. been on a drip twice, stayed at vets all last weekend and now he is starting to eat, they dont have the food!!

 

[Janeyk]

Can he not have a steroids Gill? the reason I ask is that Schui suffers alot with ill health he has no teeth (due to terrible gum/teeth probs) he has CRF and bad sinus probs (probably a growth in there).  He got very low about July time his sinus probs were bad and he wouldn't eat (that's when his kidneys were retested) we were going to have to have him in on a drip he was so low.  Luckily I am in alot of the time so could see to him, even coaxed him to eat, took his food to him and fed him.  Anyhow the vet gave him a steroid injection and said he can have top ups if necess.  Nothing happened for 2 weeks then we saw improvement he started eating again by himself and was a different cat considering we thought we may lose him.  He still has his sneezy, snotty nose most of the time but he's alot happier and hasn't needed a top up yet.  I know steroids aren't ideal with kidney probs but his quality of life is much better now - just a thought.

[Maddiesmum]

If he only wants his biscuits could you soften them in some warm water to get him going?

[Yvonne]

I wish you and Franta all the best.

When Cleo would not eat she could be tempted with warmed up tuna fish in sunlower oil.

 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

franta is having a lot of shut eye.......amost for 11 hrs now!

no its not metacam cos bad for kidneys, names is in kitchen and franta lying on me at mo.
i wanted to leave him untilnext week this morning but she wasnt happy about that, i felt he was just coming back but she said it was important for him to have more antibiotic cover
but also she feltthat him not eating enough could be cause liver damage.

the valium should have worn off by now so believe tat he has been given convenia and a combination of that, valium and stress is why he has flaked out.

he are ad this morning, not a lot and klicked gravy off renal pouch, he had jelly brfore he went to vets

since being home he has had a few kd biscuits, a drink from the big bucket and some more jelly. wouldnt touch ad.

so by his standards quite good for the day. what he is missing is a good bisciut nosh.

i dont have ant scales but he is now 4.1 kg so he has lost about 0.4 kg since the summer, mostly in last week and its a steady downward pattern. so he is not eating enough to maintain his weight which also worrying the vet.

the only pain factor possibly is his mouth but we dont know, so this is just to see if it helps for 2 days.

i put the 0.1 mil in his jelly so not to stress him by wrapping him in a towel to try and syringe it, its a minute amount and dont know if he ate it.

he is chilling now cos he has been kying on me for hours and i think that makes him feel relaxed. he is dreaming at the moment and twitching paws.

i am concerned about the other cats cos they not getting any attention and think misa not happy.

[Rosella moggy]

Oh dear Gill. Hope you and Franta feel a touch better after a bit of shut eye 

Where to start?  You know Franta better than the vet, no matter how caring or expert the vet is so really you just have to try very hard to relax and think things through. 

Do you have any decent weighing scales?  Instead of "thinking" he is losing weight, do you know for sure and, if he is losing weight, is it such an amount to really become a worry just yet? 

Considering his reaction whilst at the vets and on the trips there and back, unless there really is a serious concern that he could become very ill, ask the vet if you can agree to just leave him be for 5 days or so. There I've said it (nipped off the fence for a millisecond there  ) Could I also say (without upsetting you)  that he will almost certainly be picking up on your stress of such frequent vet visits.  You and all the furries need some chill out time. It's not as if he's not eating at all. Isn't the valium helping him to eat a little more today?

Obviously it could be something is wrong that the vet hasn't yet picked up on but is that likely if she's had so many opportunities to examine him? 

What painkiller is he on? Metacam?  Coz think that usually needs to be given with food to stop it coming back up but, like you say, what makes anyone think he is still in pain so long after the op?

Oh dear!  I so wish he could have Noni B's appetite for 10 minutes 

[Teresa Pawcats]

Gill only just catching up so didnt know Franta was poorly, I so hope he picks up soon.

Think  you need to trust your gut instinct and see if the vet is in agreement with you.

[maryas]

Yes Gill, I too wish they could talk to us and it would be easier for us to help them.  I really don't know what to suggest.  Have you expressed how you feel to the vet?  It's just so annoying how he has gone down hill since having the teeth out but maybe it's just a coincidence.

He is bound to be stressed out after all the car journeys and the Valium and  can't believe they put him next to a dog in the vet's.  Has he always been a fussy eater?  How about grating some cheese and seeing if he will eat that?

You must be feeling so down in the dumps Gill, I am truly so sorry for you both.

Love Mary and Bonnie xx

PLEASE GET WELL FRANTA

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

thankyou all for your very wise words.

he has been lying asleep on me almost since i wtite the post and i fell asleep too.

at present there us nothing to suggest the the good kidney has a problem but she wanted him on abs for a while to try and stop ot getting infected after the mouth op, she is more worried i think about damage to his liver from on off eating. i think the problem is she doesnt know why he wont eat but doesnt want to take any chances.

i being quite simple over this feel that he is now not eating cos he associates food with bad things and vets and feeling bad. as he does car trips.

i know that he will be tired because of the valium but she said it would wear off in up to 4 hours and the abs should not make him tired. so we are 8 hrs on and he is still flaked out and i thinknthat is stress, valium or not.

i feel that i cannot put him through anougher weekend of drips and forced feeding while he is totally stressed out cos surely stress will also have an effect on everything.

i so much dont want make my franta ill either way or shorten his life dramatically because i refuse to do what the vet says is best but my feeling is that this way he will never get back to what for himm was normal eating. whether the vet thinks its enough or not.

he has been eating his fur cos of the stress and i think he is just starting to lose weight.

ok he has eaten today but still not what one could call a normal amount and thats even with the valium.

this is so hard and they say that a little knowledge is bad and a;though i am sure that his mouth must be better the birman soul isnt. this is the reason why i am so against lots of tests of older cats, cos now i have a little knowledge which is stopping me do what maybe i feel is best.

my next prob, well the immediate one is do i try and syringe this painkiller into him, stress him some more or maybe help him cos we dont know if his mouth is sore!

oh i wish he could talk to me 

[CarolM (Wendolene)]

This is the awful dilemma that most of us who choose to share our lives with animals have to face at some time or other.  We have to listen to the advice of vets because they are the experts and we accept that.  But we know our animals better than anyone else and the vets have to accept that too (most good ones do).  The problem arises when the vet's advice and what we know about our pets point in different directions.  
Some years ago my cat Rosie had breast cancer.  She was operated on but the lump came back very quickly and the vet wanted to operate again.  The surgery had stressed her a lot and as she was asymptomatic I wanted to know what made the vet think a second op would be more successful than the first before putting her through another trauma .  He couldn't answer that and actually said that if I wasn't going to agree to the  surgery then I should have Rosie pts so I left.  After a couple of weeks I was overcome with guilt in case I was denying Rosie her chance of life so I took her elsewhere for a second opinion.  The young vet I saw was wise beyond her years.  She said she couldn't guarantee success of the second op but would automatically recommend it because that was what she was trained to do.  Doing nothing was not part of a vet's training.  Clients expected the vet to do something and so something was what they did.  She acknowledged, however, that refusing a further op and doing everything within my power to maintain quality of life for Rosie was an equally valid option and she gave me a lot of advice on what to look out for as the disease progressed.
Whatever we decide to do we are always left with nagging doubt that the 'other' course may have been the right one.  The truth is, in a lot of  situations there is no absolute right and wrong.  If there were, it would be easy.    
Yes we have to do what is best for our pets but when it is far from clear what is best for them we must realise that having considered the options we have a duty to ourselves as well.  We will have to carry on living if it all goes wrong and our pet suffers.  It may not work for everyone but I always try to decide what would make me feel worse if the unmentionable happened - having accepted the advice or having refused it.  The answer is different for everyone and only you can decide.
I am going through a similar process right now with Korky and his CRF so I really know how you are feeling  

[Gillian Harvey]

he has a small kidney on the left with a stone in it and possible crystals blocking the way in/out but the right kidney is normal and his tests are moreorless normal too.


 just feel thay all of this is making him worse than he was before i went to the vet and the added knowledge about the kidney is making everyone so worried.

when does one say to the vets, noooooooooo i am not putting him though any of this anymore cos its making him miserable and stopping him eating (maybe).

I know just what you mean about them sometimes seeming worse after a vet visit, I felt the same about Sam, it is stressful for them, no matter how laid back they are (and Sam is so laid back he's normally horizontal LOL!) and also it definitely takes older cats longer to recover from anaesthetics etc.

With regard to the kidney - I think you can take some comfort in the fact that his blood tests for kidney function came back more or less normal, in spite of the physical state of the left kidney, but what does the vet think is the problem with the right kidney?

As the others have said, Franta is your cat, and you go with your gut feeling about him and what you think is best for him. I think Lesley hit the nail on the head in that vets will often continue with tests and meds because its what they think the owner wants. 

[LesleyW]

You know your cat best Gill and know when he is stressed and unhappy more than the Vets.

I know most of them are just trying to do the best for our animals but sometimes I feel that the stress only makes the illness or condition worse.  Just as there are owners who carry on with treatment for their animals when they are ready to leave for the Bridge, (I met several of these "caring" owners when I worked at the Vets) I think there are vets who continue tests and diagnostics even when the results will not assist the cat and the stresses being put on it; sometimes I think they have trouble communicating with the owners and are carrying on tests etc for the owners rather than for the pet.

If you feel Franta is best at home with you trying to improve his appetite then that it where he should be.  I know alot of cats refuse to eat and toilet when they are at the Vets anyway so do what YOU think is best for your cat, not what the Vet says you should necessarily do.

  to you and Franta.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

i didnt want to take him today but she persuaded me.

we have been there twice this week and think 3 times last week and once the week before and he has spent 4 nights there so far. each trip is 40 miles and he shoutsall the way there and back.

also the dogs in the cagesare upsetting him.

[Maddiesmum]

I was in the same situation with my Dragan (RIP) He was 17 and had 17 visits to the vet in just over a month staying over two nights.  It was awful knowing I was putting him through much stress that unless I was absolutely sure he needed to go I would not take him I would talk to the vet on the phone.  It is a terrible situation to be in

[Mark]

I feel the same. I know what Clapton is like and a vet trip can upset him for days. When he starts to go downhill, we will have to make a decision based on his happiness.

I think as has been posted on here before. Asking the vet "What would you do if it were your cat" is the way to go.

[Dawn F]

its a difficult one Gill, we have to trust them but like anyone else they aren't always right - I think you've done what most of us would have done, I really hope he starts to perk up soon

[blackcat]

Gill, I think anyone who owns and loves their animal reaches a point where they realise that sometimes a non-intrusive approach is the one that will get the best result for their pet - prolonging life when that life becomes an unhappy round of medication and interventions and intrusions, is not kind to our cats. Only you can make that decision, and at least, having had the visit to the vet, you are armed with information that will allow you to make it informed with the information from the tests. If they show a need for further medication and treatment that will cause distress, with no long term benefit, I know I would hesitate about the choice.

The important thing is always the welfare and happiness of the animal, not that of its owner ...

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

this is worrying me and i know in many cases assistence in the form of meds and stuff is what is needed to make a cat better and is essential.

however franta was a happy boy before i took him to the vets to have hos mouth and tests done. he was chomping his biscuits and lickin his jelly and drinking.

now he is unhappy, angry, not hardly eating and not drinking enough.  he has been on antibiotics for over a week , been pumped with valium to try and get him to eat. now i have liquid painkiller for him incase..........one week later ....his mouth is hurting him.

he has a small kidney on the left with a stone in it and possible crystals blocking the way in/out but the right kidney is normal and his tests are moreorless normal too.

it is likely that the left kidney has been like this for ages but the vet is worried about the right one.

franta is 15 years old and i love my cuddlebum dearly, but after having two teeth out he is not my happy little cat and every trip back to the vets is stressing him so much and now we are waiting for his xrays to be seen by specialist in bristol.

io just feel thay all of this is making him worse than he was before i went to the vet and the added knowledge about the kidney is making everyone so worried.

when does one say to the vets, noooooooooo i am not putting him though any of this anymore cos its making him miserable and stopping him eating (maybe). i want what is the best for franta but not at the expense of ruining his happy little life, which i feel is happening at the moment.

i know that the vet is doing all she can for him in order to help but if he still is not eating more tomorrow then he may end up back in the vets over the weekend again and when i brougt him home on monday he was exhausted and has taken till before the vets today to feel he was coming back.

just dont know what to do and do we allow the vets to overmedicate?