Topic: How on earth do you discipline a cat? (Read 20797 times)

Den · « **Reply #69 on:** November 02, 2008, 22:31:12 PM »

No it would not be an assault as assault is person to person whether physical or verbal. It does not relate to animals .. that is cruelty or abuse.

Animals are certainly not children with less intelligence, they are animals. You cannot treat a cat like a dog, a dog like a cat or either like a child, it doesn't work. An animal cannot rationalise like a child.

andyturner · « **Reply #68 on:** November 02, 2008, 22:13:28 PM »

Ok, my blood is now boiling

1. Read my latest posts very CAREFULLY. I am advocating that Lynds seeks PROFESSIONAL HELP FOR BEHAVIOURAL PROBLEMS - NOTHING ELSE.

2. “There is no comparison between disciplining a child and an animal”. REALLY? I always thought of animals as children with less intelligence. Before you poo poo this notion show me one animal as intelligent as Einstein, Newton or Hawkings.

3. "The cat did not "assault" the other cat, since assault is an act of violence towards another person" – THIS DEPENDS ON YOUR DEFINITION OF ASSAULT. WHAT IF A HUMAN INFLICTED INJURY ON AN ANIMAL – WOULD THAT NOT BE ASSAULT?

Den · « **Reply #67 on:** November 02, 2008, 21:51:29 PM »

So I've kept quiet, but I'm annoyed now

There is no comparison between disciplining a child and an animal. The cat did not "assault" the other cat, since assault is an act of violence towards another person. I am seriously disturbed about this advice of "punishing" poor Nobo.

Poor Nobo needs his thought processes and behaviour changed, not a spank on the bottom

andyturner · « **Reply #66 on:** November 02, 2008, 21:43:30 PM »

Quote from: Lynds on November 02, 2008, 21:30:36 PM

Andy I appreciate your help but I really would never punish a cat. He's been given a firm no, with a little tap on the nose and then put in the kitchen and dining room area to have some "time out".

Lynds, I'm not telling you to punish the cat or follow my advice, just pick the phone up and speak to a professional specialist in cat/pet psychology.

andyturner · « **Reply #65 on:** November 02, 2008, 21:40:23 PM »

Look, I don't like punishing or disciplining people or animals – but there is a line. This poor women is having to medically treat one cat because her other cat assaulted it. If you came home and found your child had assaulted your other child to the extent that it needed surgery what would you do? At this point all your “No”, “Awe no”, “Don’t do that” is about as effective as firing ping pong balls out of a cannon – I.E. A WASTE OF TIME.

WHAT I HAVE ASKED HER TO DO IS…
A. NOT FOLLOW MY PREVIOUS AMATUTURE ADVICE.
B. SEEK PROFESSIONAL ADVICE.

I SEE NO PROBLEM WITH THIS, DO YOU?

Lynds · « **Reply #64 on:** November 02, 2008, 21:30:36 PM »

Andy I appreciate your help but I really would never punish a cat. He's been given a firm no, with a little tap on the nose and then put in the kitchen and dining room area to have some "time out".

Lynds

bunglycat · « **Reply #63 on:** November 02, 2008, 20:48:06 PM »

Why has this guy Andy - got a thing about "punishing " cats ????

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #62 on:** November 02, 2008, 20:35:36 PM »

You never punish a cat!

andyturner · « **Reply #61 on:** November 02, 2008, 20:02:30 PM »

Hi Lynds,

1. HAVE YOU CONCIDERED MY PREVIOUS ADVICE ABOUT SEEKING PROFESSIONAL ADVICE?

2. Please confirm, Nobo was the original and Izzy was to be a playmate for Nobo?

3.
a.   He's playing aggressively with me and my OH.
b.   He seems to do things just to spite me. He screams to get out then screams to get in.
c.   He crawls all over us to eat our food while we eat.

In my opinion, this cat wants attention and lots of it.

4. Going back to my other “Previous” “Previous” post, in reaction to his behaviour what is the most extreme punishment that you have administered?

Regards
Andy

PS. Speaking of attention, Judo is sat on my belly and biting my hands as I type

Lynds · « **Reply #60 on:** November 02, 2008, 18:49:57 PM »

Yes they were lol..

She's still the same. Each time she sees him, she runs a mile - he chases. Sometimes she'll sit next to me on the bed and he'll come in but she won't run as she feels safe with me, but he'll still jump on her from the floor. The attacks are more frequent and intense now. I've tried separating them but Nobo learned how to open doors and I had to put a bolt on the kitchen door! It's just chaos and I'd do anything for it to work, but I also have a very busy job that has me travel the world (on average one big trip every 8-10 weeks) and I can't leave this mess with my mum and dad etc.

Izzy is such a social wee thing with other cats (scared sh*tless of humans, except me now) and wants nothing more than for him to like her. He's having none of it.

I wish someone had a magic wand.

andyturner · « **Reply #59 on:** November 02, 2008, 18:00:49 PM »

OK, sounds like they were were a bunch of

censored grapes

,

1. Have you concidered what I said about professional help?
2. How have they been behaving over the past 2 days?

regards
Andy

Lynds · « **Reply #58 on:** November 02, 2008, 13:35:33 PM »

They were a complete waste of time Andy.

She hadn't spoken to her husband about getting another cat and I did say to her that she should have before talking to me, or anyone else for that matter.

It left me very deflated.

andyturner · « **Reply #57 on:** November 02, 2008, 13:16:49 PM »

How is it going withe people you found a few days ago?

Regards
Andy

Janeyk · « **Reply #56 on:** November 02, 2008, 13:03:33 PM »

Lynds · « **Reply #55 on:** November 02, 2008, 12:34:17 PM »

Indeed Helen, but it makes me feel like pond scum just doing this.

I've posted in the re-homing section in the hope someone will help me there.

Lynds

Tiggy's Mum · « **Reply #54 on:** October 29, 2008, 12:22:05 PM »

You know deep down that you are doing the right thing for him, even if that means putting yourself through the pain of having to let him go

Lynds · « **Reply #53 on:** October 29, 2008, 10:03:50 AM »

Well it looks like I've found my Nobo a home already. They sound perfect. Mum, Dad and two girls (Nobo is great with kids). They had their last cats for 14 and 15 years respectively and love moggies. I was on the phone to her for an hour last night and I ended up in tears to the women. She said I could visit anytime if they take him, but realistically I won't visit as it would be too painful, but it's nice that they offered.

They are coming over to my house at the weekend and then I'm going to theirs to check it all out. It sounds ideal though. They have a front and back door, nice secluded garden with lots of trees; quite a bit away from the main road etc.

She started asking me what he likes to eat, his personality and all the things a cat lover should ask.

I know I should be delighted that I may well have found the perfect home but I feel sick as it's all very real now.

I can't get out my bed today as I feel so low and can't stop crying. At least I'm home office today and can sit with the laptop, working away. I feel like I've failed him and that he will think I don't want him, which couldn't be further from the truth. Funny how we think our wee moggies can be capable of such thoughts when the truth is, he'll be fine. It's me that won't.

CurlyCatz · « **Reply #52 on:** October 28, 2008, 14:11:04 PM »

In answer to the question

WITH A BIG STICK

Oh incase you don't know me I'd better add that I'm joking lol.

andyturner · « **Reply #51 on:** October 27, 2008, 22:29:17 PM »

Lynds,

I’m very sorry and sad to hear that you are in the process of re-homing Nobo. I can only imagine that this has been the hardest decision you have ever had to make. My heart goes out to both You & Nobo.

With regard to my previous post, I was not joking. With the exception of murder, Nobo has committed the most serious act of GBH. I believe that this is as an extreme case where one cat needs Guidance, the other cat needs Security and both need tonnes of Love + Reassurance. That said this is only my armature opinion.

We here are on the Internet are neither professionals nor specialists; we are simply a bunch of well meaning animal lovers. This means you will get lots of loves and support but not always the best technical advice. Unless you have already re-homed Nobo then I urge you to employ a professional specialist. Talk to your vet about animal psychologists and trainers.

Furthermore, because this issue is complicated and not clear-cut you will get a difference of opinion. I therefore recommend that you employ at least 3 reputable professional specialists and make decisions based on a conscientious of opinion.

There is hope. Whilst searching for Gizmo, I found Judo a 3 month old Tom dumped in the woods. 3 weeks ago he was a Savage & and very scared. Today he is still a bit twitchy but is helping me to write this email by jumping on the keyboard and chewing my arm ;0)

Please give it a go. You have nothing to lose and Nobo has even less.

Stay strong, Good luck, Lots of Love & Big hugs for all of you
Andy
PS. Please keep me informed and feel free to PM me.

Janeyk · « **Reply #50 on:** October 26, 2008, 07:27:06 AM »

that's sad, but I agree it may be for the best, probably he would be better as an only cat?

bunglycat · « **Reply #49 on:** October 25, 2008, 23:29:59 PM »

Scruff or spank their bottom!!!!????
I would never in a million years do that to an animal - a child maybe !

Tiggy's Mum · « **Reply #48 on:** October 25, 2008, 21:33:33 PM »

Sorry to hear things are no better, must be heartbraking for you to have come to the decision to rehome

Balfie · « **Reply #47 on:** October 25, 2008, 20:36:58 PM »

Aw, Lynds, so sorry for you. What an awful time you have been having and what a tough decision to have to make. But you know you have tried your best and that it will be for the best for both your kitties in the long run.

Quote from: lilynmitz on October 22, 2008, 19:28:31 PM

I know Nobo is making your life a misery but I think Andy's system would just end up with an angry, resentful and fearful cat. How can you improve your bond with a cat if you treat them like that?? I just don't believe cats respond to punishment in the way that kids and dogs do. I wouldn't even do that to a horse. And I would never scruff a cat. It terrifies them and is very painful.

How sad lilynmitz that although you dont agree with using smacking for cats and horses (and quite rightly) you seem to agree with it for dogs? Punishment is just as wrong for dogs as it is for cats. I hope I have misunderstood what you have said and you arent really advocating smacking dogs....

Lynds · « **Reply #46 on:** October 25, 2008, 20:10:22 PM »

I thought I'd reply and let you know things have a got a lot worse. So much so that I've decided to foster Nobo until he finds a new forever home.

My nerves are shattered.

Last night was the worst attack to date. He clawed her face then climbed on top of her to force her down while he tried to rip chunks of fur off her. Thankfully my friend was there to help pull him off her. When I finally found her, she was beyond frightened, had a bloody face and had peed herself through fear.

I cannot take this anymore. I've cried all day over giving my baby boy up as he's the best cat in the world, but only when she's completely out of the picture.

They have been separated for over a week now and it has made things worse. I take shots at keeping one of them confined to the big kitchen and separate dining room, but it doesn't matter what I do, he turns crazy to get at her (even if he has full run of the house while she is shut in). He's now quickly learned how to open doors and I have to use a chair to wedge the door shut so the handle cannot move. This is no way to live, especially with my job being as busy as it is. Thankfully I've been home office for the last 3 months to deal with this but my next bout of business trips start in two weeks.

I never ever thought that I'd have to give a cat up, but I really can't take this anymore.

Lynds · « **Reply #45 on:** October 25, 2008, 20:04:43 PM »

Quote from: Dawn F on October 21, 2008, 16:41:00 PM

I think picking up a cat by the scruff could be painful, especially as some of mine would have our 5kg of body weight pulling down on them

I agree. I was rather appalled when I read that.

lilynmitz · « **Reply #44 on:** October 22, 2008, 19:28:31 PM »

I know Nobo is making your life a misery but I think Andy's system would just end up with an angry, resentful and fearful cat. How can you improve your bond with a cat if you treat them like that?? I just don't believe cats respond to punishment in the way that kids and dogs do. I wouldn't even do that to a horse. And I would never scruff a cat. It terrifies them and is very painful.

To "discipline" my lot I always use same words, same tone of voice, for each cat. With some of mine I've barely had to whisper "no" in a stern voice and they stop immediately. With others I have to bark out "NO!" or their name, to get their attention. You have to learn what works with each cat and stick with it. Follow it up by removing them from whatever they were about to do, possibly into another room for a few minutes to break the moment, then let them back in before they start wreaking havoc elsewhere, and repeat as necessary. My Mo was a b*gger for doing whatever he could to get attention, good or bad, but he did learn my warning "nooooo" or "Moseeeees" in a low tone, which made him think and pause, and then if he decided to go ahead anyway he got the loud "NO!", or "MOSES!" followed by me removing him from whatever he was about to do. It didn't always work, but it certainly improved things a lot. He hated being shut out so was usually fairly contrite when I let him back in, and had usually forgotten what it was he was about to do that got him into trouble.

Good luck. I really do sympathise. You're obviously a great mum to your lucky pusses, but he really is determined to push the boundaries!

PS - he may be responding to your stress over the impending house move. Just a thought.....

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #43 on:** October 21, 2008, 23:29:23 PM »

I assume that was a joke Andy?

My vet says never to scruff a cat, especially a scared one cos it will make them worse.

My vet and now the other new ones there just do not scruff cats and interestingly the vet I had to take Sasa to before Christmas as an emergency, also did not do this and she bit him.

I think you have to stick with one way of doing things and not chop and change, its no point keep confusing them.

If I remember rightly Nobo was there first and you should not be sacrificing him for Izzy. He sounds like he really wants your attention and hates it when he doesnt get it. Izzy is a threat to him.

Topsy Turvey · « **Reply #42 on:** October 21, 2008, 16:53:16 PM »

I use a loud clap with ours if they are doing anything wrong and it does seem to work but they are very chilled out cats. Have been babysitting a 6 month old kitten for a friend whilst she was on holiday. It was amazing how quickly my three took to her but she got a bit over excited a couple of times so I used the "time out" with her and put her in another room. It seemed to work. Good luck honey it must be heart breaking for you x

Dawn F · « **Reply #41 on:** October 21, 2008, 16:41:00 PM »

I think picking up a cat by the scruff could be painful, especially as some of mine would have our 5kg of body weight pulling down on them

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #40 on:** October 21, 2008, 14:15:14 PM »

Quote from: Lynds on October 18, 2008, 21:54:39 PM

Well it's not great for me at the moment. Nobo attacked Izzy only he really hurt her this time.

I swapped things round today and gave Nobo run of the house and kept Izzy in the master bedroom. Izzy was quite content there and Nobo came for Mum time most of the day. From the advice I've received via PM's, I should keep one of the cats in one area and slowly let them go in to other rooms etc, but I just can't do this right now as it's amazing to see Izzy exploring. I'm basically giving one half of the day to one cat with me and then swapping them over. Am I screwing this up? I move house in a few weeks and I''m stressed enough, without this on top of it.

I think I'd continue doing the 'timeshare' thing you're doing now, especially as Izzy seems comfortable exploring. I would then only have them in the same room when you are able to keep your eye on them the whole time and are able to prevent any attack by Nobo before it starts, (i.e. distract with toys/food) but I wouldnt push the face to face intros too soon.

Quote from: andyturner on October 20, 2008, 19:27:55 PM

a. Pick him up by the scruff of the neck.
b. Spank his bottom, hard enough to let him know who is boss and that he has done wrong - BUT TOO HARD AS TO RISK INJURY.

I wouldnt do this, (I don't agree with spanking cats or picking them up by the scruff anyway) either to reprimand him for his naughty behaviour or with regard to the already very shakey relationship with Izzy, I think you would risk your relationship with him, and if you reprimand him like this if he attacks Izzy, he may just associate her with punishment and make him want to attack her even more.

andyturner · « **Reply #39 on:** October 20, 2008, 19:27:55 PM »

Hi,

1. I know this sounds harsh and not loving, and I don't want this to be misinterpreted - I AM A HUGE ANIMAL LOVER, but he is causing physical harm to your other kitty and this needs to stop immediately. Try this...
a. Pick him up by the scruff of the neck.
b. Spank his bottom, hard enough to let him know who is boss and that he has done wrong - BUT TOO HARD AS TO RISK INJURY.
c. Look him in the eye and tell him off extremely assertively like an Army Drill Sergeant.
d. Lock him up some where safe for an hour. If he kicks off again then repeat a. to d.
e. Firmly stick to this approach consistently each time if he seriously misbehaves. For minor offences use the Assertive voice.
f. When you let him out again talk to him in a normal calm rational voice, i.e. firm adult to adult but not angry, and explain what went wrong, why etc. He'll get the picture that he is not under threat but needs to behave in future.
g. Resume normal loving living, but don't let him get away with stuff and cause unhappiness
...as I said this may seem harsh but in the long run - it will be in his interest, other kitty’s interest and your interest.

2. What is a Da Bird?

Best regards & good luck,
Andy

Lynds · « **Reply #38 on:** October 18, 2008, 21:54:39 PM »

Well it's not great for me at the moment. Nobo attacked Izzy only he really hurt her this time. Her eye was swollen and she couldn't open it. I had to take her to the vet and thankfully there's no major damage. I spoke to the vet about Nobo's bullying and crazy behaviour and she has put them both on Zylkene, which is some natural anti-anxiety medicine. I've also separated them too.

I was shocked how quickly Izzy progressed. I'm talking a day here! One day with Nobo confined to the kitchen, dining room and the great outdoors she's started coming down the stairs and generally exploring the house. She even jumped onto the sofa and went for a sleep. It's not the Zylkene doing this as I had separated them the day before taking her to the vet, and the Zylkene won't really kick in for a good few days (that's if it works!) Nobo is throwing temper tantrums when in the kitchen etc and it's breaking my heart but what else can I do?

I swapped things round today and gave Nobo run of the house and kept Izzy in the master bedroom. Izzy was quite content there and Nobo came for Mum time most of the day. From the advice I've received via PM's, I should keep one of the cats in one area and slowly let them go in to other rooms etc, but I just can't do this right now as it's amazing to see Izzy exploring. I'm basically giving one half of the day to one cat with me and then swapping them over. Am I screwing this up? I move house in a few weeks and I''m stressed enough, without this on top of it. It's just not feasible to do the big separation when I'm trying to pack my life away in boxes etc. I don't want to re-home my Nobo and I'll try anything but I fear I'm doing it all wrong.

Sorry for the long winded rant, but I just needed to write my thoughts down.

Lynds

Janeyk · « **Reply #37 on:** October 14, 2008, 22:17:03 PM »

I often do the loud clap too Phillip

Philip · « **Reply #36 on:** October 14, 2008, 22:12:40 PM »

With my Ragdolls I make a sort of loud SHHH noise and give them "the look". Then I click my fingers and point". If that doesn't work I clap my hands.

"what are you doing" I will say whilst some fluffy soul or two looks up at me with that naughty look.

Luckily with all my raggies that usually works.

Well.....when I'm around.

Lynds · « **Reply #35 on:** October 14, 2008, 22:10:00 PM »

Thanks for taking the time to reply everyone and Stuart - what lovely artwork: a story well told!

He's been evil again today, but I've done the Ah Ah Ah....he's still a wee crazy dude but I'll persevere.

I gave him his Da Bird fun and Izzy too; separately of course!

I'm now lying on my bed writing this and Nobo has crawled up to sprawl over my legs. He's being a mummy's boy tonight again, which is the first time in ages. The past few days has felt like he really hates me; just recently he seems so mad. He's usually so tactile but he's generally having none of it at the moment. Nobo has also been very clingy with my OH the past week or so. Perhaps he's just mad at me for something. Perhaps it's just a severe bout of jealousy over Izzy. I love them both so much but he's making the house a very unhappy home.

I swear he's going out of his way to do everything that's naughty. The funny thing is that this happened a couple of weeks ago too, then it just stopped. I thought it was a one off. Obviously not.

Stuart · « **Reply #34 on:** October 14, 2008, 18:44:15 PM »

Dont think you can

Misty used to be a right sod to Hamish, and I used to try and stop him (without physically separateing them)
here is the chronological method i used
started saying hoi! or no !
Misty would stop, but after a short while would ignore me
started shouting HOI! or NO!
Misty would stop, but after a short while would ignore me
started shouting HOI! and stamp my feet
Misty would stop, but after a short while would ignore me
Started shouting HOI! and get up and take two or three step's in Misty's direction
Misty would stop, but after a short while would ignore me
in the end I would have to physically break it up myself, I would do this only if Hamish was skirlling out with pain

Most of the time Hamish looked after and defended Himself pretty well, but that would be when Misty would get Mad and start getting more
aggresive.
there is only one time I remember when I left them alone, because Hamish was kicking Misty's ass ( I couldn't do nothing for laughing

)

the picture tells it all

Christine (Blip) · « **Reply #33 on:** October 14, 2008, 18:38:29 PM »

Good advice already and I'd say you need to pick your 'no' word(s) or sounds, say them very assertively and back them up with physically removing him from doing the naughty thing. It works for me....after a fashion.

Seeing parents in the supermarket failing to discipline their screeching brats, I can say that the assertive tone is probably the thing to work on.

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #32 on:** October 14, 2008, 18:23:49 PM »

Yes

Kirst · « **Reply #31 on:** October 14, 2008, 18:22:42 PM »

I think it must be - its very very effective tho isnt it!

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #30 on:** October 14, 2008, 18:20:56 PM »

Afraid Ducha is the same and does this when he wants more of my pillow!

Maybe its a birman thing?

Author Topic: How on earth do you discipline a cat? (Read 20797 times)