Query on cat food !!

[Gillian Harvey]

Gillian, what would you do to increase fibre on a meat-only diet?  Or haven't you had to?  I'm getting some Nutrifyba from MillysMum for Blip to try: that is plant-based too, of course.

No, I havent had to increase fibre and mine have bones (either whole to crunch up - or those with little or no teeth, minced up with the meat) which provides some fibre, and they have tinned as well. Psyllium is sometimes recommended for extra fibre in homemade diets - plant again of course!

[Christine (Blip)]

There is another thread running about high fibre diets which people might be interested in too.  I've just ordered some Applaws and Porta 21 for Blip to try as well as Orijen dry food (plant-based but non-cereal).

Gillian, what would you do to increase fibre on a meat-only diet?  Or haven't you had to?  I'm getting some Nutrifyba from MillysMum for Blip to try: that is plant-based too, of course.

[Angel cake]

I spoke to the vet, and he recommended a dry food diet, although I am not convinced by this. He wouldn't recommend a brand though !! 

Very interesting. Do they do hi life in kitten pouches ? 

[tigerbaby]

Can anyone recommend wet food?
I'm considering switching him to something that has a higher percentage of actual meat, however part of me thinks I'm being unnecessarily cautious as plenty cats throughout the country lead normal healthy lives on the basic 'supermarket' stuff.

Hi Life Essentials is a winner in our house. It has a high meat content and little else added. In Asda you get 12 x 85g pouches for £2.88, while the Whiskas (with only 4% meat content) costs around £3.50 for 12 pouches (although the pouches are 100g). For us it doesn't make that much of a difference as Jameson usually don't finish a whole pouch.
We also buy tins as they are more economical. I feed him a standard good quality wet food in morning (Whiskas) and a high meat content wetfood in eve (Hi Life).

Natures Menue proved successful here too, but a bit too pricey for my poor wallet!!

[Angeladeedah]

Lol - oh right, that would explain the weight gain then.  Thank you for that.  I've lowered their calorie portion so I will see how they get on.  One of my cats is ok but the other one is seriously overweight.

My other problem is that the one who is overweight won't eat wet food - not even fresh meat like chicken or fish.   I dont like them just having a dry food diet especially as Harvey wasn't well for a couple of months last year with FLUTD.  I would love to make my own food for them but one of them just won't eat meat.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Angela - you actually need to feed for the weight you want them to be, not the weight they are to help them lose weight, and also bear in mind that the guidelines are on the high side so you will buy more.
Hannikat - that is in line with the adult and senior Hi-Life - mine are really fussy with it, I have given so much away it is unbelievable - dont think they got through one box of the 5 I bought. They have always liked HiLife though, so I dont rate the new recipe!!

[Tiggy's Mum]

Anyway once you open up the temtations box your back to square one ...

   Too true!

[barney]

I think if you have 10 nutritionists in a room you'll get 10 varying opinions of whats good and whats bad, with not one giving a straight forward clear answer. Anyway once you open up the temtations box your back to square one ...

[Mark]

That is why I didn't bother enrolling Kylie onto the weight loss course at the vets as it is sponsored by Hill's 

[Gillian Harvey]

What is even more weird is that it's no longer a product of the EU but is instead made in Thailand
Any ideas if it is indeed improve or not?
   

Don't know to be honest - a lot of cat foods seem to be including Tapioca in their recipes now - don't understand why, its another type of grain. I don't see why they've added sunflower oil as well as fish oil - fish oil is perfectly fine on its own without a 'plant' oil added as well.

I'm really surprised by the comments regarding Hill's dry food - I never connected it to his weight gain but there's maybe something to be said there.   The only thing is, I think this nutritionist will also recommend Hill's food (as all vet's do!) but then maybe there is a right way to give it. 

No cat is going to lose weight on a carb filled dry food - theres no right way to feed it - just don't feed it LOL! If the nutritionist recommends Hills dry - then I despair  Try feeding a high meat/no grain, cereal, or veggie wet diet - or a homemade diet.

[Pooky]

Can anyone recommend wet food?

I've tried my cat on a number of different brands but the clear winner (as far as he is concerned) is Sheba - specifically the essence pouches.

I'm considering switching him to something that has a higher percentage of actual meat, however part of me thinks I'm being unnecessarily cautious as plenty cats throughout the country lead normal healthy lives on the basic 'supermarket' stuff.

[Angeladeedah]

We go to see a nutritionist next week to try to sort it out

I will be interested to see their recommendations. Will you let us know how you get on please ?

Hayley x

Yes, I definitely will!  Be interesting to see what she recommends for him.  Will be right on here though to let you all know.

I'm really surprised by the comments regarding Hill's dry food - I never connected it to his weight gain but there's maybe something to be said there.   The only thing is, I think this nutritionist will also recommend Hill's food (as all vet's do!) but then maybe there is a right way to give it.  It's funny because Harvey has been on their prescription diet w/d dry food and yet he still put on weight.  I always went by the weight it said on the packet for all brands of dry food but when I went to the vet she told me I was giving them far too much yet I was going by what the company had told me.

I think one of my problems is that I weigh their food out for them and then it gets left out but I have 2 cats - so there is no way of knowing who had what amount so pretty sure that Harvey probably has way over what he should have as Ollie is the correct weight for his size.    Think I'm going to have to put their food down to them then take it away after half an hour so that I have better control of their food weight. 

[Mark]

Good that they don't use pork as it isn't good for cats. My vet told me not to give it to the cats at all as the molecules are too big to pass through cats tiny capillaries.

[Hannikat]

interesting thing about hi life. I bought two boxes of the kitten-junior pouches today because I ran out. When I got home I noticed that the consistancy was completely different to normal- more mushy. Anyway when I looked at the box I noticed that one was a new and imporved formula andthe one I had opened was an old one. Anyway looking at the boxes the ingredients had chnaged a lot!!!

Old hilife kitten - junior
Chicken recipe - Chicken (min 26%), poultory, pork, minerals, fish oil
Turkey recipe - Turkey (min 26%), poultory, pork, minerals, fish oil
Poultry recipe - Poultry (min 46%), pork, minerals, fish oil

Typical Analysis - all varieties
 Protien 11.0%, oils and fats 9.5%, Fibre 0.2%, ash 1.8%, Moisture 78.0%, Vit.A 2,600 IU/KG, Vit.d3 260 IU/KG, Vit.E  20 MG/KG, Taurine 300 MG/KG. Phosphorous 0.24%, Magnesium 0.5%, Calcium 0.3%

New improved recipe hilife kitten - junior recipe

Chicken & Turkey - Chicken & Turkey (in variable proportuins, min. 60%), Sunflower oil, Fish pil, Vitamin & Mineral Supplements, Tapioca.

Chicken & Lamb - Chicken & Lamb (in variable proportuins, min. 60%), Sunflower oil, Fish pil, Vitamin & Mineral Supplements, Tapioca.

Chicken & Liver - Chicken & Liver (in variable proportuins, min. 60%), Sunflower oil, Fish pil, Vitamin & Mineral Supplements, Tapioca.

Chicken & Duck - Chicken & Duck (in variable proportuins, min. 60%), Sunflower oil, Fish pil, Vitamin & Mineral Supplements, Tapioca.

Typical Analysis - all varieties
 Protien 11.0%, oils and fats 3.5%, Fibre 0.5%, ash 2.0%, Moisture 82.0%, Vit.A 2,200 IU/KG, Vit.d3 250 IU/KG, Vit.E  (as ox-tocopherol) 50 iu/KG, Copper (as cupric Sulphate) 1mg/kg

None of these anymore...........Taurine 300 MG/KG. Phosphorous 0.24%, Magnesium 0.5%, Calcium 0.3%

What is even more weird is that it's no longer a product of the EU but is instead made in Thailand
Any ideas if it is indeed improve or not?
   

[tigerbaby]

If you are looking for a great quality food but you're on a budget I can highly recommend Pets At Homes own premium dry food. It has very similar ingredients to JWB but much cheaper. If you go into a PAH store and ask for a sample they will give you one.

I feed Jameson two pouches of wet per day (Whiskas in morning mixed with a small amount of water, and Hi Life Essentials for dinner).  At the moment he will scoff the wet food first and pick on the biscuits, whereas in the winter he seems to be stodging up on the biscuits and leave the wet food, but most of the times he seems to get the balance right.

When it comes to buying wet food, or cat food in general, I avoid anything with ''EC additives/colourings and Various sugars''. I maintain that my cats food does not need to be coloured, nor have sugar in it. I also make sure he gets a wet food with a high meat content (Hi Life).

[Mark]

All I know is the two most popular dry foods are rubbish. They are full of grains which cats bodies aren't designed to process, then add all the artificial colourings etc and you end up with "McDonalds for cats" - a lot of other dry foods have much better ingredients - Orijen being the best as it is totally grain free. I have been trying to switch mine over to it totally but find they prefer it with some other dry they are familiar with with in - ie Royal Canin, PAH own premium (which is BOGOF at the mone so good value)

You may need to do the same with Whiskas dry - ie mix a bit of the new in to start then gradually increase the amount of good quality food until they aren't eating any of the rubbish one.

I've been concerned about the dry food I'm feeding Alfie for some time now.

Since I got him in December I've basically been feeding him 2 pouches of wet and some Hills Science dry food. All of a sudden he seemed to put on quite a bit of weight  and I realised I was giving him too much dry food so I cut the quantity right down to about 10g for through the day and 10g for his early morning munchies. I tried to get him down to 1 and a half pouches of wet but he doesn't seem keen on this!

A couple of months ago I switched him to Hills Light formula but he is STILL gaining weight. He has always been powerfully built but he has now got a hanging belly and I don't want it to spiral out of control.

I'm very strict about treats and although he is an indoor cat I try to give him a good 'workout' everyday with a variety of toys.

I'd never heard of Orijen until I read this thread, certainly in theory it sounds like a much better option than Hills. I think I'll order a sample size and see if his lordship approves...

It does smell quite meaty so in theory should appeal to them - I am curious about trying the fish one as I'm hoping mine will like it more. If it is smells like salmon. they won't touch it.

[Mark]

did we ever get to the bottom of which PAH dry food is "better" premium in silver bag or purely.................

The premium seems to have more "goodies" in it such as prebiotics. I suppose it makes sense at it's £2 more than Purely.

Anyway, the premium is BOGOF until 9am Thursday so get down there quick!!! - Purely isn't in the sale.

[Pooky]

All I know is the two most popular dry foods are rubbish. They are full of grains which cats bodies aren't designed to process, then add all the artificial colourings etc and you end up with "McDonalds for cats" - a lot of other dry foods have much better ingredients - Orijen being the best as it is totally grain free. I have been trying to switch mine over to it totally but find they prefer it with some other dry they are familiar with with in - ie Royal Canin, PAH own premium (which is BOGOF at the mone so good value)

You may need to do the same with Whiskas dry - ie mix a bit of the new in to start then gradually increase the amount of good quality food until they aren't eating any of the rubbish one.

I've been concerned about the dry food I'm feeding Alfie for some time now.

Since I got him in December I've basically been feeding him 2 pouches of wet and some Hills Science dry food. All of a sudden he seemed to put on quite a bit of weight  and I realised I was giving him too much dry food so I cut the quantity right down to about 10g for through the day and 10g for his early morning munchies. I tried to get him down to 1 and a half pouches of wet but he doesn't seem keen on this!

A couple of months ago I switched him to Hills Light formula but he is STILL gaining weight. He has always been powerfully built but he has now got a hanging belly and I don't want it to spiral out of control.

I'm very strict about treats and although he is an indoor cat I try to give him a good 'workout' everyday with a variety of toys.

I'd never heard of Orijen until I read this thread, certainly in theory it sounds like a much better option than Hills. I think I'll order a sample size and see if his lordship approves...

[Dawn F]

I think mark worked out the premium was a bit better than purely

[Liza]

did we ever get to the bottom of which PAH dry food is "better" premium in silver bag or purely.................

[Mark]

I still believe high carbs is more of an issue than high fat for cats as their bodies are designed to metabolise fat but not carbs. That's why I wish I could get Kylie to eat just Orijen + some grain-free wet.

[Gillian Harvey]

I agree that carbs are the main problem, but a higher fat food is going to be higher in calories and presumably that will mean that less needs to be fed?  So a high fat food that is overfed is probably going exacerbate the problem?

Yep, agree,  high fat + overfeeding, not good!

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Fat isnt the problem, cats actually have a fairly high requirement for fat as it is one of their main sources of energy (the other being protein), its the dreaded carbohydrates that are the problem

I agree that carbs are the main problem, but a higher fat food is going to be higher in calories and presumably that will mean that less needs to be fed?  So a high fat food that is overfed is probably going exacerbate the problem?

[Gillian Harvey]

Fat isnt the problem, cats actually have a fairly high requirement for fat as it is one of their main sources of energy (the other being protein), its the dreaded carbohydrates that are the problem and as you said Susanne, dry food isnt a natural diet for a carnivore. Dry food is often left out all day in the belief that cats need to 'snack'. In the wild they would eat several small meals a day, its true, but they would be species appropriate meals i.e. mice, other small rodents, birds, rabbits etc, not carbohydrate filled dry biscuits.

Cats werent designed to eat carbs, (miniscule amounts only in the stomachs of their prey - and then only if they actually eat the stomach). Carbs in the form of cereals, grains, veggies etc are in far too high amounts in the vast majority of cat foods.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

The trouble with all dry food is that it is very calorie dense and the amount you need to feed is very small so most people do over feed.  I think most people would get a shock if they actually weighed out how much they were feeding.  If a cat is getting some wet food too, then the amount of dry needs to be reduced even further.  When I fed my cats more dry food (when they were younger and I knew less than I do now about cat nutrition), I used to feed them about 40g James Wellbeloved a day plus one pouch of wet food and they maintaned their weight on that.  They were both quite large cats too.  Weigh out 40g of dry food and you'll see it's not very much at all!  I've never fed Hills but I believe it is quite high fat?  If that's the case then I think you would need even less.

[Lynds]

Your comments are rather interesting re: Hills food. My parent's cats eat hardly anything. They get 1 pouch of wet food between them in the morning, 1 between them at night and then one slice of ham or chicken each for supper. The Hills food is out all day for them. I look at Sam and Alfie and I can see they are overweight. It has shocked me more as my new moggies are so lean, and to be fair, 11 years younger. I know my mum and dad don't play with them that much, so they should get a little more exercise but it's still not right that they are that overweight. Perhaps Hills is to blame?   

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

I favour wet food over dry food for cats as I think the moisture in wet food is essential, and I'm not keen on the ingredients in dry food - not exactly a natural diet for a carnivore and so easy to over feed.  One of my cats eats wet food only and the other eats some wet and some dry.  For wet food I feed mainly natures menu, hi life essentials, bozita and animonda carny with some other brands thrown in for good measure (tesco finest, tesco luxury, schmusy, hi life complementary pouches, cosma, applaws, almo nature and a bit of felix senior for Jaffa cos he likes it  ).  I'm lucky in that my cats will eat pretty much anything and will eat the stuff with high meat content.  Mosi has a bit of dry - usually orijen (grain free) but he sometimes has James Wellbeloved or hi life dry.

[Angel cake]

We go to see a nutritionist next week to try to sort it out

I will be interested to see their recommendations. Will you let us know how you get on please ?

Hayley x

[Mark]

My Kylie was on Hills light for years and just gained weight on it.

[Angeladeedah]

I must read that ingredients section - I am really interested to know what's in them.  I've only ever bought the cheap stuff like Whiskas etc when my cats were babies - I never ever liked the look of them, they look so waxy and rubbish looking.

I normally buy mine Hill's, James Wellbeloved or Pro-plan - though they are currently on Hill's prescription diet w/d as one of my cats is overweight (the other one is underweight so guess which one is eatting all the food).   We go to see a nutritionist next week to try to sort it out as I'm a loss as to what to do.   They've always been on light/house cat dry food.  They very rarely eat wet food but every now and then I treat them to some anyway.

[Millys Mum]

Whatever you choose to do, just change one part at a time ie alter her dry food to a better one and then once ok on that start on wet, if you do both you wont know which is the culprit if her stomach gets upset.

Hills is similar to james wellbeloved and PAH brand except it costs more. It also seems to make fat cats, whether its higher in fat or just the taste that makes them eat more im not sure 

[Mark]

All I know is the two most popular dry foods are rubbish. They are full of grains which cats bodies aren't designed to process, then add all the artificial colourings etc and you end up with "McDonalds for cats" - a lot of other dry foods have much better ingredients - Orijen being the best as it is totally grain free. I have been trying to switch mine over to it totally but find they prefer it with some other dry they are familiar with with in - ie Royal Canin, PAH own premium (which is BOGOF at the mone so good value)

You may need to do the same with Whiskas dry - ie mix a bit of the new in to start then gradually increase the amount of good quality food until they aren't eating any of the rubbish one.

[Gillian Harvey]

Aside from the obvious preservatives/colourants etc, big red flags to me - would be cereals, grains, sugars, potato starch, beet pulp (sugars) and on the whole, most vegetables - ruling out all dry foods (even the grain free dry foods have some form of starch and/or veggies to help form the actual biscuit) and many canned/pouch foods.

You could always make your own Hayley  at least if you are sourcing the ingredients yourself you'll know exactly whats going into your cats food. This site is good if you were thinking about doing that www.catinfo.org

I like to feed part raw/part grain free canned diet - biscuits are just treats in our house - a bedtime snack for the gang

[Christine (Blip)]

A lot of us on here - including me - believe in feeding a predominantly wet diet to ensure adequate fluid intake.  I feed Blip two pouches a day and leave good quality dried food down for snacking.

As to brands, it can be a question of what your cats will actually eat!  In general, I would aim for foods with a high meat content if possible: Natures Menu is a good one, as is Almo Nature and lots of people on here feed Hi Life (Blip wont eat it).  A couple of members feed their cats raw food and I hope they spot this thread.

I am hoping to change Blip onto Orijen dried food* as she has been prescribed a high-fibre diet and also has arthritis: my point is that your cats needs will change as s/he gets older.

 

*for the dried element, that is

[barney]

I think all processed food products wether it's for animal or human consumption has muck in it we'd all rather not have. Even the so called healthy foods still need to put in additives just to preserve the shelf life of the product. Only way around it is to grow your own and breed your own free range sparrows and mice for kitties 

[Angel cake]

I haven't looked at hills ingredients. But I will.

I haven't posted the artical, or any links, as some of it was very shocking, and I didn't want to offend or upset anyone.

If you are intersted google red flag ingredients in cat food.

Hayley x

[Lynds]

Goodness. I'd like to know about this too.

I'm using Hills Kitten plan and they get a mixture of wet food too: Sheba, Felix, M&S cat food and they seem to love Tesco pouches (any variety with Gravy).

This is where you tell me that Hills shouldn't be used lol


Lynds 

[Angel cake]

Hi there. I was reading up about red flag ingredients in cat food, and I was horrified to find out what ingredients are actually used in cat foods.

I currently use whiskas complete dry food, as that is what Tiger was fed on, but apparently it is one f the worst culprits for red flag ingredients.
I want to change her diet, but she has issues with her motions at the moment. She will be going to the vet tomorrow.

I wanted to know some of your opinions on cat food brands,  and what would you would advise for Tiger, and indeed my other two adult cats. I want to introduce wet food into her diet also, but would like to know if an all wet food diet is best, or a mixture of wet and dry.  My other two have currently a mixture of dry, and wet food.

Any thoughts or advice will be most welcome

Many thanks

Hayley x