Author Topic: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns  (Read 9960 times)

Offline MrsR

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2008, 18:55:06 PM »
 :hug: :hug:

Offline Angiew

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2008, 18:33:17 PM »
Mrs R, I'm just tired and worried as most of us get from time to time (usually Jan - Dec!) and if you are worried about what you see then you should act. Only you know what you saw.

It's a shame there is no regulatory body that can keep an eye on standards with the view to helping improve things when necessary as opposed to beating up - but of course that would need money and resources and would no doubt get lots of flack from the rescues it visited!

and I know there are 'rescues' that shouldn't exist - we've heard about them from members here who have gone to them and have shared sadness when the poor cats involved have died.


Offline blackcat

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2008, 18:24:22 PM »
Mrs R there is rarely a subject that comes up on this forum that is not potential to cause a heated debate. Some of us enjoy that. You have raised an important issue and I think that you have definitely done the right thing. You were the person who saw what was going on so only you are in a position to assess the situation. As you say, you have considerable experience of visiting rescues so are as well placed as anyone here to form an opinion. Well done you for caring for these animals and for taking action where, from your description, it was clearly needed. :hug:

Offline MrsR

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2008, 18:10:19 PM »
Me starting this thread was in no way meant to start heated discussions and possible rows, I do not want to cause upset at all on the site as I couldn't bear that.

Offline Angiew

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2008, 17:27:53 PM »
If they have a stud then it will pong.
I don't know why a cosher rescue would have a stud mind you.....

I do feel cross when everyone moans about the states of rescues though - perhaps if more 'normal pet owners' could see it to do a bit more (even if its just taking responsibilty for thier own animals! :mad2:) then rescues wouldn't be swamped and hygiene standards compromised.

Ela  re your "Although I don’t like to say it or even think it. Perhaps sometimes it would be a kindness to be PTS than placed in a bad rescue."

Do you really think this? >:(

 Bad rescues can rehome hundreds of cats a year.

 I do get tired of the old CP spouting how good they are routine - the standards the CP set may be ones that us normal folk aspire to but TBH if I have to put 2 lots of kittens together and risk an outbreak then I will probably always do so and face the consequences when it happens. We're not talking about a cattery full of cats here but a spare roomfull and any outbreak with compromise one household and a limited number of cats.

Though having said that , if these 4 litter litter and four-litters-to-be from the farm all end up here then I think I'll have to call out the RSPCA and report myself - but then of course the alternatives are to either PTS the kittens as they are handed over or refuse to help and let the cats totally overrun the farm. If anyone has any answers out there the please PM me!

I need to go and lie down and get some new hobbies......
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 17:56:01 PM by Angie (covcats) »

Offline MrsR

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2008, 16:06:30 PM »
Thanks guys, if they are just overwhelmed or need a hand at least an Inspector can point them in the right direction and help and the animals can be helped as this is about the animals welfare isn't it, no harm will come from me reporting them if they are a good shelter.

I have visited a lot of different shelters over the years, both small and large and have never seen anything this bad.

Offline Meezer Mum

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2008, 15:13:57 PM »
you definitely did the right thing. if the windows were filthy and there was a bad smell coming from the window (not even in the same room as you!) then there is definitely a lack of hygiene.  there is just no excuse for not keeping pens (home made or not) and the surrounding environment clean.  if there is a lack of basic hygiene, then you can guarantee that the people running that place lack in a whole load of other areas too...!

Offline Jennifer

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2008, 13:17:10 PM »
Well done on reporting this. It's never a bad thing for the RSPCA to have a look and see if anything bad is going on. Even if it turns out that you just saw them on a bad day (which I doubt) at least it'll encourage them to sort it out, and the RSPCA will do a follow-up check to make sure they have. If, on the other hand, they were ill-equiped to take care of so many animals, the RSPCA will sort that out as well.

Offline Janeyk

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2008, 12:18:23 PM »
Well of course you should report anythiing you are concerned about. It never does any harm.  :)

I'm afraid, though, that some of our fosterer's pens might be thought of as looking like avaries. Some are adapted sheds with wooden frame chicken wire runs attached. Everyone would love the nice plastic purpose built ones but funds are not available.  :(

If I saw homemade pens I wouldn't think badly if they were clean and the animals looked well looked after
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Offline madkittyrescue

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2008, 11:04:06 AM »
you've definately done the right thing MrsR.  The rescue concerned will have the opportunity to explain themselves and if there is a need for assistance and re-education I would like to think that RSPCA will help them get back on track if required....or take action if necessary.
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Offline Ela

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2008, 10:23:59 AM »
Quote
m afraid, though, that some of our fosterer's pens might be thought of as looking like avaries. Some are adapted sheds with wooden frame chicken wire runs attached. Everyone would love the nice plastic purpose built ones but funds are not available

That would not be a problem, as long as the pens and runs are clean and cats have everything they need to ensure their wellbeing.
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Offline Teresa Pawcats

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2008, 10:11:59 AM »
You have done right to report this, a genuine caring rescue always welcomes critism and inspection;whilst I cannot comment on the one you have seen, I will say that there are many bad cat collectors/back street breeders who go under the guise of rescues and need to be stopped.
Could you visit a few other rescues ? get a better all round picture.

Offline Pinkbear (Julie)

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2008, 09:34:40 AM »
Well of course you should report anythiing you are concerned about. It never does any harm.  :)

I'm afraid, though, that some of our fosterer's pens might be thought of as looking like avaries. Some are adapted sheds with wooden frame chicken wire runs attached. Everyone would love the nice plastic purpose built ones but funds are not available.  :(

Offline Janeyk

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2008, 09:03:11 AM »
You have done the right thing, we are an animals only voice.

exactly, you had to do it, I would have and lets hope they sort it out.
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Offline Ela

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2008, 08:27:00 AM »
Don't worry MrsR you did the right thing, I would have done exactly the same had I seen what you and your husband did. What you saw was not acceptable for a rescue or even a private owner.
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Offline MrsR

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2008, 08:11:23 AM »
I hear what you are all saying but the owner did say it was her husbands stud and the kittens were not in proper pens like you see at a CP but the large avarys you see parrots in and there were a lot of kittens and I mean a lot together, the smell was bad enough for my husband to notice and we have cats and he has smelt bad litter trays when one has done something funky.     The windows were so dirty and I mean dirty, so many things, so so so many things were wrong it was only the tip of the iceberg I mentioned.

Offline Ela

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2008, 07:38:33 AM »
Quote
About not being allowed to see the kittens except through a window, well that would seem a standard hygiene precaution to me. Especially if there's flu or ringworm going around. In fact, I can't think of a single rescue I've dealt with that allows folks to handle kittens without first making a special request. And if a litter of kittens are all sharing one tray it can look rank within half an hour of being changed.

Although I appreciate what you say. I do not think for one minute in this case  it is a well run rescue. One thing that shows that immediately is the fact that the were many kittens together. no well run rescue mixes litters of kittens. If there was ringworm or  cat flu the kittens would or should have been isolated, and the rest should not have been up for adoption until the problem had been resolved. The hygiene in our rescue is high but we do allow people to go in the pens and see the kittens. We welcome people to handle the kittens. We have hand sanitizer for people to use first. RE the dirty litter trays, you can just tell by the state if things have been left for long and also any one in rescue as indeed owners need to check on a very regular basis. I am constantly going into my pens to check the trays and also I quickly soon learn the bowel habits of the resident of the pens so learn to know when to check.

Quote
rescues can seem bleak places. Very often they are! But they are often, quite literally, the last place these animals are welcome and the alternative is PTS.

Although I don’t like to say it or even think it. Perhaps sometimes it would be a kindness to be PTS than placed in a bad rescue.
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Offline blackcat

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2008, 06:27:14 AM »
I agree with all that is said below, but sadly in this case the owners themselves have indicated that the ponies are part of the husband's breeding 'programme' and that the children were observed shoving random food at the animals. Neither of these is consistent with a well-run, or informed organisation. 'Well-meaning' people who accumulate animals they are not qualified to look after on the pretext they can care for them better than others are collectors, sorry.

Offline purrlover

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2008, 01:23:58 AM »
Totally agree with you here. I have owned my own horses for 32 yrs and can take months to get condition on them after illness / abuse. Litter trays can have been emptied an hr ago and look like they haven't been done in hrs.I know I had two fosters in and would empty their litter tray and they were weeing that much that within an hr they looked lie I hadn't done them in ages and I was meticulous as I have children who would have waded in with the shovel if I hadn't and I didn't want that. (trust me it takes longer to clean up once the kids have tried I am sure they think they are on the beach making sandpies :P :P :P :P :P

The best test is to get the rspca in (I am not a fan but they do come in useful sometimes) and if they have nothing to hide they will welcome the visit and that will either put your mind at rest or sort it out. I would have been distressed as well but sometimes we don't see the full story.

Offline Pinkbear (Julie)

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2008, 01:00:34 AM »
MrsR, if they are a genuine rescue they won't mind you being concerned about their animal's welfare. But they do deserve a chance to explain.  :sneaky:

Did you ask if the foals were new arrivals under vet supervision?  :shy: Horses and ponies are notoriously slow to recover from neglect and often look really rough for months after being removed from bad situations. Overgrown hooves sometimes need to be left while medication deals with infection, for example.

Was the lady's dog a recent adoption who arrived pregnant?  :innocent: Was she just telling you it was her dog because she didn't want you to ask about adopting it?  :shify:

About not being allowed to see the kittens except through a window, well that would seem a standard hygene precaution to me. Especially if there's flu or ringworm going around. In fact, I can't think of a single rescue I've dealt with that allows folks to handle kittens without first making a special request. And if a litter of kittens are all sharing one tray it can look rank within half an hour of being changed. (That's why rescue gets through so much litter! :evillaugh: )

I'm not saying what you saw wasn't good practice and wasn't distressing but sometimes at first sight, rescues can seem bleak places. Very often they are! But they are often, quite literally, the last place these animals are welcome and the alternative is PTS. :( What you have to balance is whether these animals are being abused or are merely being cared for by folks struggling with poor resources and poor knowledge of animal husbandry. The RSPCA will be best to judge that.

As Christine says, they are collectors out there and they need to be educated but they also need support and to be encouraged into better regimes. Rarely this kind of set-up is intended to abuse, and it usually starts by the owners heart felt desire to help animals and make a difference that was executed poorly and under resourced.  ;)

Offline Meezer Mum

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2008, 21:53:55 PM »
Good job!  There is no excuse for dirty litter trays - sounds like these people don;t actually know what they are doing.  Well done x

Offline Millys Mum

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2008, 20:52:23 PM »
You did the right thing, keep on top of the RSPCA to get a result  :hug:


Offline Kittybabe (Ruth)

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2008, 19:18:26 PM »
:hug: I agree you have done the right thing.

Offline MrsR

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2008, 18:45:36 PM »
Thanks guys and I will follow up x

Offline Ela

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2008, 18:02:39 PM »
You have done the right thing, we are an animals only voice.
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Offline Sam (Fussy_Furball)

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2008, 17:47:04 PM »
Well done for reporting this.  It may be just a case that these people need a bit of education and assistance  ... and at least if it is anything more serious by stepping in now you will  hopefully have stopped these animals suffering.

I would definitely follow up with the RSPCA.  Give them a few days and then ask for a progress report.

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« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 18:05:36 PM by Sam (Fussy_Furball) »
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Offline MrsR

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2008, 17:35:42 PM »
Thanks everyone for your support on this it means so much, just wish I could have brought all the animals home to a clean environment.

I think the eyes on some of the kittens will haunt me for a long time.

Offline Christine (Blip)

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2008, 17:27:12 PM »
How awful for you  :hug:

But you have done the right thing reporting it.  Too many collectors out there  >:(... 

Yes, I would guess you ring the same number again: if it is not the right one, I am sure they will advise whom you should call.
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Offline lucy

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2008, 17:13:49 PM »
 :hug:

Offline MrsR

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2008, 17:09:15 PM »
well done you. If you feel up to it, follow up next week and find out the results of the inspection.

Do I just call the same number that I called to check how the inspection went?

Its done me in, feel so broken hearted and destroyed.

Offline blackcat

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2008, 17:04:26 PM »
well done you. If you feel up to it, follow up next week and find out the results of the inspection.

Offline MrsR

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2008, 17:01:32 PM »
I have report it to the RSPCA now and they said an inspector will go and chick it out.

Offline MrsR

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2008, 16:40:58 PM »
Doesn't sound like you are fussing for nothing. Those foals feet need to be kept trim to help their legs grow straight. Sounds more like animal collectors to me and something that should be reported to the relevant authorities. >:(

I will do hun as couldn't believe it when I saw the hooves as they were starting to turn upwards  :(

Offline MrsR

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2008, 16:40:06 PM »
I don't think you are over reacting at all.  It certainly sounds like a strange set-up.  If you have have concerns for the welfare of the animals then you really have to report it the to the RSPCA ... they are the only people that have the authority to go in and do anything.  I would give your local RSPCA centre a call and explain that even though you do not suspect cruelty you feel they may benefit for an inspection and some education on animal welfare.

Thanks hun, I thought about the RSPCA but hubby didn't see the point but thought that at least if they had a complaint on record then if someone else rang it would help, just so upset by it and broke my heart leaving all the animals there.   Even took done bedding to donate and wish I hadn't now as they will probably sell it as it was new!  :(

Offline blackcat

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2008, 16:39:03 PM »
Doesn't sound like you are fussing for nothing. Those foals feet need to be kept trim to help their legs grow straight. Sounds more like animal collectors to me and something that should be reported to the relevant authorities. >:(

Offline Sam (Fussy_Furball)

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2008, 16:37:14 PM »
I don't think you are over reacting at all.  It certainly sounds like a strange set-up.  If you have have concerns for the welfare of the animals then you really have to report it the to the RSPCA ... they are the only people that have the authority to go in and do anything.  I would give your local RSPCA centre a call and explain that even though you do not suspect cruelty you feel they may benefit for an inspection and some education on animal welfare.
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Offline MrsR

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2008, 16:27:13 PM »
I am so upset by it all  :(

Am I over reacting?    I honestly don't think I am.

Offline MrsR

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2008, 16:02:50 PM »
There were 3 lab x puppies which turned out to be the owners own dogs puppies - so they were not rescue ones obviously!

Through a very dirty window I could see a hell of a lot of kittens which we were not allowed to go into but if we told the owner what colour we were interested in she would bring them out, I could see a lot of messy litter trays and hubby said the smell from the window was bad.

There were about 3 shetlands and the lady said they were her husbands stud farm with lots of foals - again not a rescue shelter thing! Plus the foals hooves we saw were quite long and the dirty coming off the adult shetlands was bad, they looked unkept and I couldn't see any water.

The owners kids kept pushing dog biscuits into the dog kennels - so who is monitoring the dogs food intake and the puppies - the kids were also going right into the puppies kennels.

I could go on and on!
« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 16:03:23 PM by MrsR »

Offline Sam (Fussy_Furball)

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2008, 15:59:04 PM »
Oh dear .... sory you had a bad time at the shelter.

What concerns do you have  ... you don't have to name the shelter.
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Offline Ela

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Re: Visited a rescue shelter today and have concerns
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2008, 15:58:11 PM »
Unfortunately if you don't say it is impossible for us to advise you of our thoughts. Is it possible you can say without mentioning the name?
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