TNR advice needed from experienced peeps plz.

[Desley (booktigger)]

i am sorry that you think it is too much for you HK and I do hope that you can find a local rescue able to help. Good on you for not just turning your back like others have done though.

[Millys Mum]

The only time my vets do midline is if the cats are pregnant    These are the ones you have to worry about most on release making sure they have healed, the skin is much thinner underneath and also dissolveable stitches aren't as strong.  I usually use a hospital cage for the females and get my kids to hold it up whilst I check the cats underneath to make sure they're healing ok but it's a bit more difficult on your own 

I use a similar method except i use a cheap trap that is wire on the bottom not metal like the MDC traps, best way to get cat spit in your eyes 
One would insist on hunching herself up to obscure the view 

Sorry to hear you feel you cant organise it HK, i really thought the financial aid you had been offered would have sealed the deal as its normally money that holds up people. I always find it a princess to get transport but i always manage to pull it off, once you get a plan established it becomes a much less daunting experience

[LesleyW]

It's not fair to say that I let you down last time, as I managed the trap neuter adopt myself. All I did was decide that I didn't want them to become farm cats.

I'm sorry that you feel I've let you down.

I understand that you find the whole thing a bit overwhelming for one person, unfortunately that is normally the case, especially with feral colonies,  but this must have been obvious to you from the outset and you must realise that Dawn, and many of the rescues on Purrs are one man bands and, in the present climate, with the huge amount of kittens etc, their time is stretched beyond all imagination.  

Please think carefully before posting again for help - all rescues are stretched to the limit at the moment, but especially the small independents, and unless you can commit yourself, you cannot expect others to drop everything, especially out of their own area.  We all feel guilty that we are unable to help every cat but Dawn is one of those who will go out of her way to try and I hate to see her time being wasted.

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

It's just extremely frustrating knowing these poor cats are out there and will be dropping kittens like flies in a few weeks, if not sooner.  I do tnr on my own and I am run ragged and also have a family to support.  I don't do this for the fun of it, I do it partly because it  me off that people don't get their pets neutered, and they then end up living rough and they are left to fend for themselves without a lot of help.  I also put myself through it because I love animals, and I feel I can make a difference.  My health isn't brilliant, I have back trouble, have really bad problems sleeping and get totally stressed out because of everything I'm having to deal with as a one man band, so we all have the same problems, only I don't get any help whatsoever 

[Hippykitty]

Sorry, Dawn, but I never intended to take this on single-handed, but to inform a 'nice' ie not RSPCA animal welfare org about the problem and to help with locating the cats. Somehow I've been cornered into doing this myself, so I thought about going down this route, but know it's not a good idea.

Looks like I have a problem with Sam, who is badly constipated and may need debunging. This will cost a small fortune.

It's not fair to say that I let you down last time, as I managed the trap neuter adopt myself. All I did was decide that I didn't want them to become farm cats.

I'm sorry that you feel I've let you down.

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

As you can imagine I'm not overjoyed at this news, this is the second time I've busted a gut to get stuff sorted, and twice you've decided last minute not to do it    Leave it with me and I'll try and get someone else onto it, I'll pass your details on, that's all I can do.

[Hippykitty]

Have sent you a more detailed pm Dawn, giving my reasons.

Basically, after lots of thought, I've come to the decision that I can't cope with such a massive task as TNRing the local ferals. A combination of poor health, the stress on P and S (already having to deal with Vic and Fred moving in) and the scale of the task has led me to this decision. I'll try to find an organisation with the resources and willingness to do this; I can liaise with the locals to find out where the colonies are centred etc.

I'm really sorry for letting the cats, and you, down. Thank you for all the information, it's something I'm interested in, but not capable of in current circumstances. 

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

The only time my vets do midline is if the cats are pregnant    These are the ones you have to worry about most on release making sure they have healed, the skin is much thinner underneath and also dissolveable stitches aren't as strong.  I usually use a hospital cage for the females and get my kids to hold it up whilst I check the cats underneath to make sure they're healing ok but it's a bit more difficult on your own 

[Millys Mum]

Glad your getting some help HK 
A more accomodating vet sounds good, checking midline wounds on an angry cat is more difficult, always found it amusing checking how the milk was drying up 

Its a bigger cut so yes but its still minimal loss.

Talking to one of the vet nurses about it today, she said the other vet that used to be there used to cut it straight across and there was significantly more blood loss so I'll stick to the V shape if I get them done 

Your choice Dawn 
Il stick to the more foulproof slice.

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

Now I need to get the cages, organise transport,

I've had a couple more offers of help for transporting to and from to the vets if needed, I'll pm details tomorrow 

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

Its a bigger cut so yes but its still minimal loss.

Talking to one of the vet nurses about it today, she said the other vet that used to be there used to cut it straight across and there was significantly more blood loss so I'll stick to the V shape if I get them done 

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

One of your contacts, Dawn, offered help with finance, which should help me to keep the females for a few days.

That's fantastic news, glad to be of help 

[Hippykitty]

Thanks for the great advice. Ear-tipping it is. One of your contacts, Dawn, offered help with finance, which should help me to keep the females for a few days.

Thanks for the great link MM, have bookmarked them all.

I may be changing my vet to one more accommodating who will do the ear-tips and has a less jobsworthy attitude. I have a poor memory, especially for faces, so wouldn't remember individual cats who've been in my care for a few days/week. Because the problem here will be sorted on an occasional basis (in June, there's always a new batch of strays turfed out by students, usually unneutered), no way will I remember who's who. Also, my current vet spays underneath, which makes identification of spayed females difficult.

Now I need to get the cages, organise transport, get a good vet, and evict Fred and Victoria from the back room. Fred is turning into a wonderful character. He played with my toes - which I wiggled for him - yesterday, and ran off with my specs today. Little monkey. Polly is in love, Sam is unimpressed.

[Millys Mum]

Its a bigger cut so yes but its still minimal loss. The main thing is we both get rid of the important bits 

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

When the ear is cut straight across, there is a lot more bleeding, my vet uses Electrocautary which basically seals it as it cuts so much less blood loss 

[Millys Mum]

http://www.mdcexports.co.uk/?p=traptransfer trap transfer restrainer is its proper name, which sounds nicer. Much better for the cat as it doesnt have to be handled until its out of it 

I ear tip my ferals, i prefer this over a v as it can rip at later date. I guess it aso depends on where they are going back and how many. My feeder knows them all personally bless her but i opt for the complete tip removal as i have a feeling someone has tried these cats before, they are very trap aware 

My ferals havent had any problem with their ears, they heal so quickly and look nicer than the spay scar! I really see its essential to stop the cat being retrapped and given a GA for no reason.

http://www.fixourferals.org/index.php?pager=ears

Ear tip info http://www.alleycat.org/pdf/eartip.pdf

Pic of healed ear tip http://www.flickr.com/groups/feralcatswildlife/discuss/72157601886710515/

I found this site really helpful when i started out http://www.catactiontrust.org.uk/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=3&MMN_position=3:3

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

I can't afford to keep them longer than the GA recovery time - I haven't the space and don't want this to became another trap, neuter, adopt.

I wouldn't release females in less than a week.  The reason being, if the stitches come undone, you will have the job of catching them again which could be a nightmare.  Also, I have heard of a case where a cat was pregnant, spayed underneath, released after 2 days, stitches came undone which resulted in her getting septacaemia, took a week to catch and she had to be put to sleep      I really can't understand rescues etc releasing the cats too early, it's defeating the object if the cat then dies because of lack of care.  If you are doing tnr, you have a duty to those cats to make sure they are fit enough for release and that includes the wounds are knitted together    I would also ask CP if they will cover worming/defleaing when they go in for neutering, all my ferals are done whilst they are under.  I also get them to check teeth, ears, anal glands etc so they have a full bill of health on release.

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

With a crush cage, you can transfer cats from the trap into these.  Basically it's a small cage with a piece that can slide squashing the cat to the side, it sounds awful but the idea is a vet can sedate a cat whilst in one of these so they don't have to be handled so less stress. 

Ear tipping I never liked but I had the last few done from the stables.  I get Sean to do a very small v shape in the tip of the ear and they don't even notice, I've had no problems whatsoever and it doesn't even look sore.  I think with some vets, they slice the end off and this will result in a lot of blood loss.  Sean has assured me when he does it, it's minimal so I suppose it depends on the vet.  The good thing with the ear tipping is you know who's been done and you're not stressing the same cat twice by taking them for another vet visit.  I've only had the ear tipping done when there are a few in the colony or a lot of the cats are similar.  If you can guarantee you'll get them all within the space of a few weeks, the other thing I've had Sean do is to shave the sides on the males as well so at first glance, if they go in the trap, I know they've been done 

[Hippykitty]

What's a crush cage? How do you use them?

I have a kittening pen which I decanted the last lot of ferals into, but they weren't taken to the vet until several were caught, allowing me to re-use the one trap I'd borrowed from WellCat, who are also dealing with a big feral problem. I don't have the trap now, gave it back to Pauline. Taking them to be neutered was a problem. I tried to open the top of the kittening pen to scoop the cat out, but they'd get lose in the room and I'd spend half an hour trying to catch them, getting scratched.

Was hoping to make this a quick turn-around, rather than keeping the cats for a while. That way, I can get more done in a short time without them getting too trap wise.

What do you think about ear tipping? I would like it done, but my vet won't do it, saying they lose too much blood. I may sporadically do sessions of TNR locally and I wouldn't want to catch some I'd already neutered.

I can't afford to keep them longer than the GA recovery time - I haven't the space and don't want this to became another trap, neuter, adopt. But TNR seems a logistical nightmare. 

[Millys Mum]

I use crush cages to 'decant' in to if i want to reuse the traps, my lot are naughty tho and you only get one at a time    crush cages are easier for the vets too  if i keep overnight they have a large dog cage with crush cage in it, they hide in the carrier and the end door slides down so it elimates handling them  this is how they are housed after ops and during recovery time.

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

Males can be released the following day, females need to be kept a few days to make sure stitches don't come undone but make sure vets use dissolveable stitches.  I'll put another plea out to see if anyone can sort traps, I've got another offer of transport so that will help.

Keep the cat in the trap, cover over and I usually squeeze a litter tray in with them, a kitten one, the females I use a hospital cage as it's bigger and will fit a bed and litter tray in, I'll see what I can do anyway.  With the hospital cage, cats can be transfered straight from the trap into them so there's no handling.

[Hippykitty]

Hi, I'm hoping to start doing some TNR on the growing local feral population. I've done trap neuter and rehome, but not return and was wondering what the strategy usually is.
Do you trap them, take them straight to vet in trap, pick up after op, then keep in for 24hrs before release? Or do you wait till several are trapped then somehow try to get mad ferals into carriers to go to vets? The former seems more sensible and less stress to trapper and cats, but requires lots of feral traps. Trying to get ferals back into carrier cages would be a bloomin' nightmare. I have enough problems with the increasingly friendly Fred and Vic, especially Fred! Don't fancy looking like I self-harm and dripping blood everywhere. Ouch!

What do you do?
Where would you advise I borrow the traps from.
I've had some offers of help, but just manpower and transport. Was hoping for someone with lots of traps too, such as one of the cat welfare orgs. The local CP are useless, except for vouchers.

Thanks for any advice you could offer.