Topic: Discussion on posts from Advertising Sites Split from Nottingham post (Read 41750 times)

Canterbury_cats (Sharon) · « **Reply #59 on:** July 01, 2008, 15:38:20 PM »

Angie i have a few notes i was going to put in order tonight.. but not a letter more bullet points. I see no problem giving out CPHQ neutering email or tel number and there is a great article that the Cat Action trust do on why to neuter as well...

Links to Purrs, Catchat, Freetogoodhome website and Hove perhaps as well...

But there has to be guildelines for points like that otherwise we are going to be swamped!

Angiew · « **Reply #58 on:** July 01, 2008, 15:21:12 PM »

Received the following reply from preloved -

Hello Angie,

Many thanks for getting in touch. Apologies for the delay in response.

We are keen to do whatever we can to encourage our members to act responsibly when rehoming animals and we currently just in the process of making some improvements in this respect. For example, we have just published an article encouraging people to use rescue centres, and have introduced rules for rescues advertising on the site to provide more information about the care they provide:

http://tinyurl.com/5xm72o

We have more plans for articles similar to this, including care sheets for different breeds, and an article about the risks of offering animals free to a good home. I agree that information relating to neutering would be very valuable and we will add this also. Do you have any specific advice relating to this that will help us?

The improvements will be in two stages - firstly getting the information available on the site, then secondly promoting it as much as possible to try and ensure it comes to the attention of all people using this area of the site. This process won't be immediate but we hope to make some solid progress over the coming weeks.

If you do have any further suggestions, we would be happy to hear them.

I'd like to respond to them - any suggestions?

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #57 on:** June 29, 2008, 23:49:23 PM »

Quote from: Kittybabe (Ruth) on June 29, 2008, 20:07:51 PM

I agree with Tan's suggestion, though if a new section is created I'd still like our current guidelines to remain with the inclusion of a step by step of "what to do if you see one of these ads before you start a new thread" added.

The problem I have with this is that people dont read the guides we put up, infact many do not even know they exist, just like all the helpful stuff in links.

How many times do you join a site or download something that says check the box to confirm you have read the terms and conditions, but you just check box and continue

, I know I do !

Kittybabe (Ruth) · « **Reply #56 on:** June 29, 2008, 20:07:51 PM »

Whilst a new section might resolve the visibility issue to a degree, some people will view new posts by section so could easily ignore if it they chose to, but others don't, they view recent posts added or all unread posts so will see them anyway, it depends on the user.

To be clear, we never banned posting these before, we just asked for people to take care about how they posted the information about where that ad could be found. The reason we started to moderate this a little more is that a past member (who no longer posts here) would, daily, review the free ads papers, and whether they could help or not, would start threads here which naturally became emotive and angry, and a couple times we were in danger of being targetted legally had we not moderated. So that's why the guidelines came about.

I agree with Tan's suggestion, though if a new section is created I'd still like our current guidelines to remain with the inclusion of a step by step of "what to do if you see one of these ads before you start a new thread" added.

Dawn (DiddyDawn) · « **Reply #55 on:** June 29, 2008, 19:45:50 PM »

Quote from: Desley (booktigger) on June 29, 2008, 19:26:49 PM

I still think people should be given CC links to their area first, in case there are rescues they dont know about.

Maybe that can be done as well as posting them on a separate section.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #54 on:** June 29, 2008, 19:26:49 PM »

It wouldnt help those of us who check the majority through e-mail. I still think people should be given CC links to their area first, in case there are rescues they dont know about.

Angiew · « **Reply #53 on:** June 29, 2008, 19:18:12 PM »

I'm afraid I'd have to go on and check the section!

Millys Mum · « **Reply #52 on:** June 29, 2008, 14:34:24 PM »

Hopefully a seperate section would please everyone, if thats possible!!

koscha (Ruth M) · « **Reply #51 on:** June 28, 2008, 23:41:00 PM »

I wholeheartedly agree.. and was thinking along the same lines myself earlier (wow scary!)

I don't go on the sites myself as I just get angry and upset by it all, but I occasionally get people email me asking if i'm still looking to rehome- they really don't read my posts on CC well

I direct them gently to come to this site and explore CC and put thier case themselves.... the last woman who contacted me sounded interested but I've yet to see her turn up.....

I got a catchat advert with my t-shirt today that I plan to put in my car for all to see.... If anyone else would like to use my car for free advertising (how about a poster on neutering?) PM me so I can drive it round the south, never know we might catch a few peoples attention

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #50 on:** June 28, 2008, 23:15:41 PM »

Its funny cos while I have been away tonight I was wondering if something like that would work , within the current guidelines of course.

madkittyrescue · « **Reply #49 on:** June 28, 2008, 23:10:26 PM »

Fab idea MM... as the other have said at least this way if we have time, fimances and or space we can look or those who don't then don't have to look.

If we can incorporate a post at the top of this for guidelines for folks trawling these sites who come across such ads, i.e. such as standard email, etc then that may also be useful ??? yes??

Michelle (furbabystar) · « **Reply #48 on:** June 28, 2008, 22:09:53 PM »

Quote from: Millys Mum on June 28, 2008, 20:50:11 PM

Why not create an extra section for these types of ads so that those who dont wish to view dont have to, that way people like Dawn who have a network of contacts through email can continue to put out appeals and those who cant bare to read anymore ads just dont.

If its made so it can be 'folded' up people can forget its there, thats what i do for the instructions/help section on the main board, one click and i forget it exists.

I can see why purrs rescues feel obliged to help out when its shoved under their noses, out of sight out of mind and all that.

yes good idea (i had suggested it before funny enough)
What do peeps think ?

I really think it was be wrong to ban all posts like these because so many times someone on purrs has come up trumps and helped a cat from these sites

Dawn (DiddyDawn) · « **Reply #47 on:** June 28, 2008, 21:00:00 PM »

Brilliant idea MM

As I said, I can't always help but I do have a fab contact group and it would be shame if they were in the position to help but I couldn't pass the info on

Yvonne · « **Reply #46 on:** June 28, 2008, 20:56:18 PM »

I think that is an excellent idea Milly's mum and one that I would support wholeheartedly

Millys Mum · « **Reply #45 on:** June 28, 2008, 20:50:11 PM »

Why not create an extra section for these types of ads so that those who dont wish to view dont have to, that way people like Dawn who have a network of contacts through email can continue to put out appeals and those who cant bare to read anymore ads just dont.

If its made so it can be 'folded' up people can forget its there, thats what i do for the instructions/help section on the main board, one click and i forget it exists.

I can see why purrs rescues feel obliged to help out when its shoved under their noses, out of sight out of mind and all that.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #44 on:** June 28, 2008, 20:49:13 PM »

That is a really good post MCR, and I think posting a link to CC is a really good idea - not everyone knows of all the rescues in their area, we are a small home run rescue, and the amount of people who live in in Shaw who have never heard of us, despite us being htere for 13 years is unbelievable, I only found out about us through CC. So it could be that a rescue place can be found closer, it is just they dont know of the rescue, which would also help the pressure on here. It could also help in other ways, such as people telling friends/family about them if they mention wanting another cat, or maybe they might even offer to help.

Dawn (DiddyDawn) · « **Reply #43 on:** June 28, 2008, 20:47:14 PM »

Well I've still got mixed feelings, Hels posted one for the pregnant Essex cat who then had her babies, she is now going to a lady in Hertfordshire with her babies, also from the same woman, another heavily pregnant cat is being handed over so in this case, everythings worked out brilliant but wouldn't have done without some gentle persuasion

madkittyrescue · « **Reply #42 on:** June 28, 2008, 11:46:20 AM »

I can see everyone's point of view on this topic and it is quite a sensitive topic as it is an area that tugs a lot of heart strings for us all. I realise that they are not posted in a bid to put pressure on rescues to help, but I think we put pressure on ourselves too that we feel as it is in a public forum we feel impelled to show we are trying to help even when we know we are stretched to breaking (forgive me if I'm wrong on this point) .

I don't think anyone is saying (correct me if I'm wrong) not to post them at all... the urgent cases yip I can understand. But how about creating a guideline for the people who use these sites providing a list of steps to take prior to posting the info straight onto Purrs??? I know there are some of you who do this already but there are also those who don't.

i.e. a sample email that can be sent to the poster on said sites providing a link to the relevant areas list of rescues on Catchat and providing information about neutering / use of local rescues.

They can also ask the person to visit Purrs themselves perhaps to post the details as a personal plea to rescues that may be in their area and generally point them towards the many rescue services that are available in their area / online.

In short, guidelines to allow the 'finder' to take the initial steps to resolving the situation without passing the whole process directly to rescue to do the above steps and /or then step in and take the cats or make alternative arrangements.

I, like any of the other rescue peeps on here believe it is a good thing that as many people as possible get involved in getting the message across but perhaps also, as rescues we should be providing these guidelines so as to ensure that those people looking for these ads can take the necessary steps prior to posting on purrs about a situation. As has already been said we are under a great deal of pressure to deal with cases in our own areas as well as the pressures of finances, time, travel etc. The biggest factors (to me) being time and money yet despite this if a cat in need comes up we will still go out of our way to help the cat regardless of the fact we have not a penny and are run off our feet that we have forgotten what sleep is or that it is not in our area.

Yes, post the information and we will help if we can but please use guidelines (when available) or your own emails / info to direct these people to resuces in the first instance before posting the initial ad straight onto purrs. This would help all of us in rescue a great deal by saving us the time of sitting down, finding ads, emailing, etc. If you can identify if they are willing to accept rescue help prior to posting ad details as it does take a great deal of time and organising to make arrangements for transport / accommodation for these cases.

I hope this makes sense!!

JackSpratt · « **Reply #41 on:** June 28, 2008, 11:39:35 AM »

Being one of the individuals that posts about some of the cats on those sites I feel I should post why.

When I crosspost from the sites in question the post is not specifically aimed at a rescue. We all know supplies aren't limitless - after all it's the same in a home environment. Replenishing supplies costs money and have space is most definitely a key factor.

I don't post every advert I find, mainly I redirect the poster to free to a good home site (if I can - I don't have an account so the advert has to be over a week old on a lot of sites) or I send a list of local rescues in their area.

People are only trying to do what's best for the cats in any small way they can. I know for a fact I'm not trying to put undue pressure on anybody. There's only so much everyone can do.

Bazsmum · « **Reply #40 on:** June 28, 2008, 11:19:39 AM »

The only thing I can accuse you for in my mind Michelle is for having a heart!

Given the resources Im sure you would be doing more....but even one kitty saved in my eyes is worth a pat on the back!

>Angie....That sounds fab!

Angiew · « **Reply #39 on:** June 28, 2008, 11:17:10 AM »

I've just emailed preloved the following so lets hope they reply to me or even this thread.

Hi, I know you must get loads of complaints regarding your pet rehoming section.
As a rescuer, it is causing us a lot of pressure as we try to mop up some of the animals. For example, please visit the thread http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,16081.0.html

Would it be possible for you to work with us to be able to point out some guidelines and offers of help - especially encouraging people to seek assistance in getting their pets neutered or pointing them in the direction of local rescue centres.
I am paer of Coventry Cat group and have taken several animals in from your site - mainly mums and kittens to ensure the mum cat is then spayed.
Rescues are really in a desperate situation at the moment and it would be fantastic if you could help us.

Michelle (furbabystar) · « **Reply #38 on:** June 28, 2008, 10:58:20 AM »

I am guilty of posting about cats needing help BUT i do email people on these sites and have had some good results.
Sharon posted about the white cat who was up for sale and wasnt spayed, It was Me who made the phonecall and had a chat with the women, I gave her Celia Hammonds number and the end result was the women got her spayed and kept her !
I feel awkward as I am not a rescue and cannot take cats in BUT i will help where i can. IE i have made phone calls and got spaces at FoalFarm, I met someone half way and took an FIV cat there, I did a home check, I went and got the pregnant cat from London.....I know its not alot, infact its nothing compared to what you guys in rescue do BUT The point i am trying to make is i dont want anyone in rescue to think that when i post about a cat in need that i am sitting back and putting pressure on them.

Canterbury_cats (Sharon) · « **Reply #37 on:** June 28, 2008, 08:43:52 AM »

I havejust had a thought!!
A few threads back Adel CP posted something on advert sites about neutering... etc. and i think it worked that people where guided as to where to get their cat neutered for redcued costs.

So what about all those peeps that have accounts with these sites to post something about rehoming through a rescue etc and words to that effect, some advice and information.. Not sure if sites will allow that but surely some will... If it was worded correctly and not to forceful some may get the message.... ! Just a thought!

ginge66 · « **Reply #36 on:** June 28, 2008, 08:21:58 AM »

I also agree with Tans thinking, at the end of the day if it results in helping any animal in need it must be good

I also realise you cant help every needy case and think those in rescue do a fantastic job, it never fails to amaze me the lengths people will go to here if they can help

Canterbury_cats (Sharon) · « **Reply #35 on:** June 28, 2008, 08:14:19 AM »

I have very glad that this thread has been seperated from the one i hijacked and glad that this is now an open discussion.. I have no issue at all with people (rescue or otherwise) cats that need to find a placement as the rescue local to them has (for whatever) reason no room. I do it myself.. and have along with help from others rehomed and relocated two FIV cats and also rehomed 2 kittens and a few adult cats...

My point was the issue of the adverts... because the posts have increased so much lately.....I like Tans idea... The rehoming section on Purrs does work.. but the "Homes available" section is currently unused, and that's probably becuase homing generally goes quiet this time of year.. However... we could encourage people to post their it doesnt take too much effort and then we know the offer is genuine...

There is no easy answer and i personally didnt post with the intention of "them and us like". Indeed without Michelles assistance lately... two lovely kittens wouldnt be off to their new home next week.. or indeed would Melissa the Siamese be in a loving home.. All i wished to do was to think about the implications of posting these threads...

I do wish someone would answer my Rehoming line calls for at least a month and help me decide where every single call about a puss cat in need is going to go.... Because i have run out of ideas....!

MBll · « **Reply #34 on:** June 28, 2008, 01:36:11 AM »

I plead guilty for posting these ads either for any help or suggestions ? I do try & contact the person by email asking if they have tried the rescues or are they on a waiting list & let them know about the rescue sites with the network of fosterers etc. I would be willing to provide them with contact numbers of rescues & sites if they wont. And point out the dangers of giving aniamls away for free ...but i guess when they stick an ad for 'free' especialy on freecycle they dont give a dam where the aniaml goes ...its the first person that turns up

I either get replys back with atutide & abuse or ignored. The 3 emails i sent this week re free to good homes i have been ignored.

ccmacey · « **Reply #33 on:** June 28, 2008, 01:02:01 AM »

Good plan

I agree you may think you cant help because you dont have a space for the cats but if you could maybe find a space and spread info about them then you are still helping.

I think people should try to put aside feelings because its all about the cats, and if you can help in anyway its a bonus. And you know Purrs never fails.

Tan · « **Reply #32 on:** June 28, 2008, 00:53:42 AM »

I also agree that many of these posts do put much extra added pressure on our rescues or leave them worried that they cant help with no room available. On the other side, i do also see that if there is an urgent situation we maybe able to help.

I do like the idea that if anyone does see an advert on the advertising sites, that maybe if they could contact the advertiser 1st asking if they are willing to go through a local Rescue to ensure the safety of the cats and if so guide them to their local rescue. Or to pass the info to Jodie at Free to Good home forum where they do the job of contacting the advertiser themselves to use rescue. If the advertiser is genuinely concerned about their cats, then i hope they would be pleased to get advice about their local rescue.
If say the advertiser is wanting the best for their cats and they have infact tried hard to get the cats into a local rescue and for any reason cant, then we can give them the option to come on to here and Catchat to post an urgent rehoming thread to see if anyone here or on CC can help.

Will this be a way we can help do something and also find out if the advertiser is caring or a back street breeder who only wants the money and wont touch rescue!

Just me thinking out loud and to see what you all think the best way to go on here for all of us so your opinions are greatly welcomed.

ccmacey · « **Reply #31 on:** June 28, 2008, 00:41:33 AM »

I agree with both rescue and non rescue. I do think posting them is ok, as Dawn says sometimes help can be given just by letting a few others know.

Tan · « **Reply #30 on:** June 28, 2008, 00:23:03 AM »

I am really pleased this is being discussed. I have noticed a large increase in these posts and i have been worried about the pressure on our rescues as i know they would always want to help.

I am going to pop all the related posts re this into a sep topic so we can continue to discuss this and come to an agreement everyone feels happy with about these ad posts.

Dawn (DiddyDawn) · « **Reply #29 on:** June 27, 2008, 23:55:29 PM »

I'm not sure what I think tbh, the 16 year old cat that Mags posted about, I've had 2 offers of help for that one and that was with just posting a plea out. All I know is yes it upsetting and frustrating to read these post, but it's great when it all comes together and they get sorted out

Michelle (furbabystar) · « **Reply #28 on:** June 27, 2008, 23:51:48 PM »

Quote from: Lesley (Eight Lives Left Kitten Rescue) on June 27, 2008, 23:42:26 PM

I find it awkward when it is non rescue looking at these sites and posting. I know they are just wanting to help in theiir own way, but I feel they are not helping the rescues who are already full to overflowing, they are just adding to their plight.

I don't mean to have a go at anyone and I honestly don't take too much notice of who posts what thread, though if rescues are posting for help I do specifically look to see if I can assist, and I don't mean to make the rescues "closed and clicky"

Sadly I do feel it is becoming "closed and clicky" because it seems its ok if someone in rescue posts an appeal (and that is no way a dig at anyone in rescue who has posted one) , Fair enough....got the message xx

LesleyW · « **Reply #27 on:** June 27, 2008, 23:42:26 PM »

It's a very grey area, I suppose. If Dawn or another rescue asks me for help, I can understand that. We are here to help each other in all sorts of ways and if one rescue is full and another can help, that is great.

I find it awkward when it is non rescue looking at these sites and posting. I know they are just wanting to help in theiir own way, but I feel they are not helping the rescues who are already full to overflowing, they are just adding to their plight.

I don't mean to have a go at anyone and I honestly don't take too much notice of who posts what thread, though if rescues are posting for help I do specifically look to see if I can assist, and I don't mean to make the rescues "closed and clicky" - the more people who get involved in the rescue side of things, the merrier, but unless you are involved in rescue I don't think you can ever understand the pressures we operate under 98% of the time and that pressure as Dawn says is financial, emotional, space wise and timewise.

Dawn (DiddyDawn) · « **Reply #26 on:** June 27, 2008, 23:11:35 PM »

We all know getting cats into local rescues is better but sadly a lot won't take them so what happens then? The Derby cats for instance, the poor woman has been going out of her mind trying to get help and to no avail, it was only through posting on CC that she felt she had some support. Yes less travelling is better for the cats in question but sometimes the only way to save them is with travelling into other areas. And Lesley has already said, she would have still taken them but again, it adds more pressure and we all know what that's like

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #25 on:** June 27, 2008, 23:07:34 PM »

of course they are in need, but if say LEsley had taken in the Derby kittens then what would have happened to the mum and kittens she has just picked up? I do think sometimes rescues closer to the cats should be contacted, not only in case another cat in need comes up, but sometimes cos it is better for the cat to do less travelling.
I have also recently posted for help with adult cats and loads of people read it, but no one offered to help, fortunately Rachel had volunteered as a fosterer or who knows what would have happened to them, as the person was moving 2 days later.
I agree LEsley, and it reminds me of something a lady on hol said to me last year, there were a lot of strays there, and she said 'doesn't it make you want to take them all home' - no, I only need to sit and wait for the phone to ring, think I have had nearly 20 cats since then, and rehoming has been slow this year.

Dawn (DiddyDawn) · « **Reply #24 on:** June 27, 2008, 23:05:55 PM »

Quote from: Lesley (Eight Lives Left Kitten Rescue) on June 27, 2008, 23:02:54 PM

we are the "greenies",

"Greenies" and proud

LesleyW · « **Reply #23 on:** June 27, 2008, 23:02:54 PM »

Quote from: Desley (booktigger) on June 27, 2008, 22:43:32 PM

I personally think that there shouldnt be any posts from these sites, it just puts pressure on rescues, especially with the amount of them at the moment, it is always a bad time of year with being both holiday and kitten season, and while yes, lives are saved, it can be at the expense of others, and when you start moving cats around the country, it could mean a cat close to a rescue who is now full due to helping one out from here has to stay at risk due to no space, as could easily have happened to Lesley today, if someone closer hadn't been able to help.

I know if I had taken the Derby ones I would still have then taken these new ones but that puts alot of pressure on us rescues. If we see the posts on here we feel almost obliged to help, we are the "greenies", the rescues, it's almost as if they are somehow for our attention, although I am sure that is not the intention.

I just feel that if people want to look through these sites, they should be the ones to offer assistance, if you can't help, please don't look, or at least please don't post - there are thousands of cats that need our help that we don't even have to go looking for, they somehow find us.

Dawn (DiddyDawn) · « **Reply #22 on:** June 27, 2008, 22:57:03 PM »

Quote from: Desley (booktigger) on June 27, 2008, 22:43:32 PM

I personally think that there shouldnt be any posts from these sites, it just puts pressure on rescues, especially with the amount of them at the moment, it is always a bad time of year with being both holiday and kitten season, and while yes, lives are saved, it can be at the expense of others, and when you start moving cats around the country, it could mean a cat close to a rescue who is now full due to helping one out from here has to stay at risk due to no space, as could easily have happened to Lesley today, if someone closer hadn't been able to help.

Yes I agree with this to a point but by the same token, a cat in need is a cat in need wherever it is, so for me helping a cat in another area does not make me think another is missing out, I look on it as one/more less to sort.

Kittybabe (Ruth) · « **Reply #21 on:** June 27, 2008, 22:55:06 PM »

I can see it from both sides. I can't help seeing the frustration from our rescue members when we know it is a losing battle to help.

The "rules" mentioned are in fact guidelines for our members. We can't, nor won't, dictate to anyone about what sites they should or should not visit, however, the threads that are started as a result of these ads is where we ask members to take a step back and evaluate if they should start the thread at all.

Yes, if there is a genuine way we can help, because the seller has already been contacted by a member and might be swayed, then I don't see any harm, but of course avoiding any mention of names of the website or abbreviations, and links. As the guidelines state, if people search for a website our own Purrs will appear in their search as a result. They will come to us, if there is a link to that website on ours, they click it and suddenly we've just generated more sponsorship for the sites which of course we don't want.

If there is no hope of helping (ie, the seller refuses to consider rescue and wants to sell) then maybe that is one that we don't need to know about? Just a suggestion?

Dawn (DiddyDawn) · « **Reply #20 on:** June 27, 2008, 22:51:49 PM »

I will try and help where possible with the pleas for help, this goes without saying but I can understand the upset seeing them cause especially if we can't help. I posted 2 cats a couple of weeks ago, admittedly not off Freeads or anything but 15 years old, and no one came forward to help them. I didn't even like to phone the people back again because chances are they would have been put to sleep

The other thing we have to remember from a rescues point of view is the financial side when helping out these cats. I really haven't got the money to go back and to to help these cats and have on occasion gone overdrawn on my bank to help. I've had 2 trips lately and both costing me over £20 a time, I really haven't got the money to use but I also can't ignore the pleas for help. This is one of the reasons I've accepted Jane's offer with the cats as it would cost me to go to Derby to collect and then I'd have to meet Lesley at some point for them to go to Hampshire, and I really haven't got the finances. This week alone, I've gone overdrawn so I can order my cat food, the money has to come from somewhere and yes I'd love to help in most instances, but time, finances and also room also play a big part.

Author Topic: Discussion on posts from Advertising Sites Split from Nottingham post (Read 41750 times)

MBll

ccmacey

ccmacey