PETITION - RSPCA PLEASE READ AND SIGN.

[Ela]

That is very bad Ela and I would tell the correspondents to write to the leader of their party and complain

I understand that they have contacted the local paper and it should be in today.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

That is very bad Ela and I would tell the correspondents to write to the leader of their party and complain.

Its driving me mad Ann and today I have got as far as **********ious correspondents 

[Ela]

When a question is raised to a minister or local MP he or she goes to the relevant organisation for an answer

We used to have Tony Benn (who adores cats) for our MP (as indeed does his son Hillary) and like him or not if any constituent contacted him, he would always ensure that you received a personal reply and that if necessary action was taken. Unlike now our MP is from  different Political Party and is as much use as a healthyfood teapot and I know loads of people who have contacted him, I have yet to find one person who has received a reply.

[Ann Clarke (Tabby cat)]

Being a civil servant Gill I should know this and I can't remember either but have had many an experience with that type of person and BC is right about the way letters to MPs get answered.

[Ela]

Please see part of an e-mail I have received from another part of the county, All I will say it is south of Watford Gap:-

We rescued a cat from the RSPCA in 2003. When we picked him up we were told
that he had been checked by their vet and was a little pale but fine to be
re-homed.
we took him to the vets after 2 days as he has a bad ear. Our vets were
disgusted at the poor state he was in. within a week he had, 5 teeth taken
out as he had abcesses and most of his teeth were rotten, he also had an
incredible ear infections in both ears due to polops, which were removed and
the ear infections never returned.
whilst he was at the vets they offered to have a blood test done, which we
took up. later that day we found out he had FIV and the start of kidney
failure. I contacted the RSPCA as he had came in with 6 other cats, and
thought it would be an idea to inform the new owners of the risk of FIV. I
was told to mind my own business and not to cause any trouble other wise
they would remove him from our care.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Oh no there is a special name for them here and its used throughout Whitehall and No 10.

Everytime I write something about it, its on tip of tongue grrrrrrrrrr.

[blackcat]

Don't know what the Civil SErvice calls them in the UK, we would just call them 'mischievous complaints' and place them in circular file.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Yes as I posted when I recieved the response. this is a typical type of answer and bc is right.

I am pleased it is not going to be allowed to die but I suspect a new petition which is worded much more to the point will be needed with care that legal action cannot be taken.

One also has to be careful if writing to the PM cos is you keep on badgering you will be given a civil service label.........help me bc cos I have forgotten what they call em           and once it gets to that point they will cease to reply...................its on tip of my tongue grrrrrrrrrr and I always wished some of the pains that wrote in banging on about the same thing even when they had had a very good response with all known info given to em, would be put on the list LOL.

[blackcat]

speaking as someone who has worked in Government and quangos all her life, the answer WAS written by the RSPCA. When a question is raised to a minister or local MP he or she goes to the relevant organisation for an answer, the answer is rarely checked unless it puts government in a bad light. Sorry guys, but thems the facts ...

[Sam (Fussy_Furball)]

I have been asked by Roger to post the following update:

could you do me a favour and put the body of this email on purrs as I know there have been questions asked about it .....................just to let them know I have not given up.

thanks  roger.


I have given the prime ministers office an answer on the feedback page of their site.

the response was somewhat demeaning to those who work in animal welfare and who have signed the pettion and smacks a bit of "take it or leave it" the response had nothing to do with the petition which asked for an inquiry into the policies  and asked for an independent watchdog  neither question was answered  in fact the answer was so pat you might be forgiven  for thinking it was actually written by the RSPCA  it really was not  good enough  we all know about how the RSPCA cherry pick their prosecutions  to ensure  they get what they want.

Looks like we will have to start another petition on another site where the pettion is sent to the people concerned

regards   roger

[Lindyloo]

Thanks Gill but I really do not want to start a thread about the RSPCA. I will just reply to any comments about them I feel are unfair.
Lynn

[Bazsmum]

Read & Signed 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

An independent study would need to be set up.

I do not think that this thread is the place to argue about the rights and wrongs of RSPCA actions, this thread is just to draw people attention to the petition, which many support.

Those who have a history with Cat Chat will know that the originator of the thread has fought long and hard to try and get someone from RSPCA to come onto a forum and answer questions about their policies, and this means someone from the top of RSPCA responsible for their policies.

Lindyloo should you wish to start a new thread about the RSPCA, please do and I am sure many will wade in and tell you exactly why many support this petition. i dont know if there are many links on other posts concerning RSPCA which may give you background but it may be worth doing a search on Purrs. There was much info on Cat Chat but the saearch is no longer working and that would have given you a lot of info Lindy.

[JackSpratt]

Completely off topic of what you're all debating. I was wondering who'd be looking into the RSPCA if this petition was successful?

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

When an "injured" animal is found, the first port of call the vets phone is the RSPCA, even the posters in the vets and the advertising on TV tell you to do this........no other reason, I didn't sit down and think now who do I call.........   Yes, I am talking about one cat and yes there are hundreds out there but I was dealing with ONE injured feral.  And I really don't know how I've got myself involved arguing the toss about this as when I made my post about the feral, I was mentioning about the wrong information that was given out by the call centre............nothing else!!!!! 

[Lindyloo]

Dawn,
The point I was trying to make is - we are not talking one cat are we. You have one, but what about all  the other people with their one cat. Added together it is a huge number. Also you have not answered the  question why RSPCA not CP. I am trying to understand why it is expected that he RSPCA should help but not any other charity even if another charity might be more appropriate.
Lynn

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

Dawn,
 I don't dispute that helping an injured cat is a good use of RSPCA funds but we are not talking about one cat. Of course you want to help the cat you know about but there must be hundreds probably thousands of other people just like yourself, at any one time, all wanting a cat they know about to be helped. The RSPCA has tremendous demands made on its funds and it could never help every one.
I admire you for what you do but I cannot agree that entitles you to RSPCA funds.  Why The RSPCA? why not Cats Protection they are there specifically to help cats did you approach them?  If not I would be interested to know why, not why is it always the RSPCA that comes in for criticism.
Lynn

I'm talking one cat........a feral cat that needed help at that time, and as already mentioned, I am not a bottomless pit and have taken in numerous cats that needed help and money spending on them that the RSPCA have said they will help, and the people who have reported them are still waiting    I do know the demands they have on their funds, as again already mentioned, I am on their local committee so I do know where the money goes.  I approached the RSPCA because why not??  As far as criticising the RSPCA, you obviously haven't read my post..........my criticisms lie mainly with the call centres and HQ not local branches so please don't put words into my mouth.  I admire a lot of the work the local branches do and I know the animals are their prime concern.

[Lindyloo]

Ela,
I do know what animal rescue is about I have done it for 32 years. I have fostered hundreds of cats including ferals, taken the phone calls, done home checking, vet visits, helped with fundraising, etc, etc  and yes I did it and still do it on a voluntary basis, though on a much smaller scale now,  but it has not brought me to the same conclusions as yourself . Which just demonstartes there is more than one point of view. I still cannot think of another charity that covers such a broad spectrum of work as the RSPCA. Every charity has the right to decide their own manner of operation.  I believe no charity can help every animal they come across there are simply too many. Some may refuse to take an animal when full and hope it finds help elsewhere. Some charities take more than they can cope with and the animals may possibly suffer as a result. Some will choose to euthanase in some cases, not an easy or  desirable option but sometimes there is no alternative. Isn't the vet just giving you the option to take the cat if you want to knowing the circumstances?
I would be interested to know how many cats your charity helps in a year and what you do apart from rehoming.

Dawn,
 I don't dispute that helping an injured cat is a good use of RSPCA funds but we are not talking about one cat. Of course you want to help the cat you know about but there must be hundreds probably thousands of other people just like yourself, at any one time, all wanting a cat they know about to be helped. The RSPCA has tremendous demands made on its funds and it could never help every one.
I admire you for what you do but I cannot agree that entitles you to RSPCA funds.  Why The RSPCA? why not Cats Protection they are there specifically to help cats did you approach them?  If not I would be interested to know why, not why is it always the RSPCA that comes in for criticism.
Lynn

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

If it is finance you want I do not know what the procedure is or in what capacity you were asking but it is not reallty what the call centre is there for is it?

What is the RSPCA there for then if it isn't to help an injured animal in need??  Why do people make donations if it isn't to help injured animals and animals in need??  His bill came to over £150.......this is money I haven't got, I work part time, all my money goes on the cats in my care which includes food, vet bills, cat litter and whatever else they may need.  I do this on a voluntary basis and at the moment my bill in the vets is in excess of £500 which includes the outstanding payment for the ferals treatment.  I don't have a bottomless pit, I am not a charity and I do this because I love cats.........sadly, if my vet wasn't so good with me, this poor cat would not have got the treatment he needed and would probably be dead by now through infection.  I don't know where you get your ideas from but the RSPCA do enough advertising saying if you see an injured or stray animal to contact them............and for your information, I do not begrudge a penny I pay out for the cats in my care but sometimes I struggle like everyone else and I'm sure a donation from the RSPCA for treatment for a feral isn't too much to ask, they could quite as easily been expected to pay the full bill.

[Ela]

Well I can see views are firmly set here.

That is not true, when praise is warranted it  it is given.

is more complicated to deal with. I have dealt with feral cats and in my opinion they are not necessarily some thing the RSPCA Inspectors should be dealing with

As all cats are considered equal. I personally cannot understand why they are not all treated with the same compassion.

Regards the resenting taking cats in I have seen several posts on this and another forum from people saying the RSPCA would not take the cat in so we had to or words to that effect. I am asking why they think the RSPCA should take it rather than them.

Ela makes a comment about the RSPCA only paying £60 towards treatment and then goes on to say her group has to pay any balance. Yes so

I don’t think any rescue resents taking in but are not too pleased when another rescue takes to the vets then they have to take it on after the initial fee has been paid. All rescues could do this many times a day if they thought another rescue would then go on to foot the bill and take on the little one. Your comment ‘Yes so’ I find amazing. Also if another rescue does not take on what will happen to the little ones.

While some charities may be a bit broader than just rehoming(in the sense they also do what else goes with it neutering etc)  which other charities do anything like the RSPCA?

To be honest and I don’t wish to be rude but if you think the other rescues just re-home and neuter you do not have the slightest idea about the functions of a rescue. Also please remember that most rescues are run by unpaid volunteers and many work round the clock.

Again if you are a cat rescue charity why is you think the RSPCA should pay all the bill but your charity should not?

I expect each rescue to pay for the animals it rescues. As previously advised we could all rescue hundreds a day if we expected others to pay.

Please note my replies are as a direct result to your posting and not getting at the RSPCA as a whole.

[Desley (booktigger)]

In regards to them only paying set amounts - both my local branches will pay hundreds to try and save cats in their care - some have come through, some haven't, but they have to be able to take them in first, and if they can't, then there is a prob - if no cat rescue can take in an injured cat, and the vet doesn't have the facility to keep them, then who can advocate treatment knowing there isn't a chance of a home and happy ending for the cat? (that might not have been worded quite right, I know what I meant though, but not explaining myself well!). My local branch mainly does TNR with ferals, they have took one in - yet the rescues' local one does a lot with ferals, and has feral kittens in at the mo being fostered. Both have told me how much the branches cost to run, and I can't comprehend having to try and raise that kind of money each year, esp as they dont have high adoption fees - one is only £40, I forgot to ask the other branch, and they dont get help from HQ, they even have to raise wages themselves. i know the rescue's local branch have issues with the call centre, and I do think that is the biggest thing they have to sort out as a charity - but on the taking in cats side, they have a licence for a set amount of cats, which is decided on how many staff they have, and how many they can adequately care for - and if they go above it, they are in trouble, and if they are closed down, that is x more cats needing spaces (in my branches case, that would be 60 spaces less in the area), which doesn't help anybody out, and the cats will then suffer. As a centre where people can drop in, they get a lot of hassle from the public, moreso than we do as we are appointments only and address isn't advertised, so I do think there job is harder than ours.

[Lindyloo]

Well I can see views are firmly set here. On a forum one cannot easily put a point across I know but situations seem to be over simplified.
To say a feral cat is no less worthy than a normal cat does that. I did not say a feral cat is less worthy but it is a different situation and is more complicated to deal with. I have dealt with feral cats and in my opinion they are not necessarily some thing the RSPCA Inspectors should be dealing with - they have enough to deal with. If it is finance you want I do not know what the procedure is or in what capacity you were asking but it is not reallty what the call centre is there for is it?
Regards the resenting taking cats in I have seen several posts on this and another forum from people saying the RSPCA would not take the cat in so we had to or words to that effect. I am asking why they think the RSPCA should take it rather than them.
While some charities may be a bit broader than just rehoming(in the sense they also do what else goes with it neutering etc)  which other charities do anything like the RSPCA?
Ela makes a comment about the RSPCA only paying £60 towards treatment and then goes on to say her group has to pay any balance. Yes so?
Again if you are a cat rescue charity why is you think the RSPCA should pay all the bill but your charity should not? Please remember scale the RSPCA are a huge organisation and if they had to pay full vet bills for every animal ( yes I am sure they also get lots of sick/injured dogs rabbits etc) the vet bills would be astronomical.  Some times hard decisions have to be made.
Lynn

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

The case of the feral cat is tricky.  First  do you think feral cat work is another area the RSPCA are supposed to deal with? Couldn't a local cat specific charity deal with it.

I personally think a feral cat is no less worthy than 'normal' cats and if you deal with cats then all should be treated equally.

I totally agree Ela.

[Ela]

On the one hand people are unhappy that theRSPCA do not want to accept responsibility for every animal they come into contact with, yet seem resentful about their own charity taking the animal.

I am not sure what you mean by this, I am sure no animal rescue is resentful about taking in an animal that needs help.

Why should the RSPCA who have a broader remit  take that animal rather than a charity who's sole funtion is rehoming

I know of no Charity whos sole function is to re-home.

The case of the feral cat is tricky.  First  do you think feral cat work is another area the RSPCA are supposed to deal with? Couldn't a local cat specific charity deal with it.

I personally think a feral cat is no less worthy than 'normal' cats and if you deal with cats then all should be treated equally.

[Ela]

Ela, I'm pretty sure it's gone up to £60 now but I'll check tonight for you.

Thats good £10 less for us to pay, often we need to add many hundreds of pounds to save the life but it is worth it.

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

The RSPCA are a large charity but they do not have limitless accommodation or funds plus they deal with many other areas of animal welfare.
The case of the feral cat is tricky.  First  do you think feral cat work is another area the RSPCA are supposed to deal with? Couldn't a local cat specific charity deal with it. Was it just a financial contribution you wanted or did you want the Inspector to deal with the whole thing?
Lynn

Why is the case of a feral cat tricky???  A cat is a cat, feral or otherwise.  All I wanted was a contribution, as already mentioned, the cat already had what he considers a "home", I had spent 2 and half weeks trying to catch him and I was quite happy taking him to the vets for his treatment which I did on two occasions.  I pay a lot of my own money out for feral cats when they need treatment, but I don't have a bottomless pit as I also have to buy food and pay the vet bills for the other cats in my care. 

My local branch are brilliant with the ferals........in some instances, these are the one's that need their help more.  According to the RSPCA, if a stray cat is injured they will help with costs towards it's veterinary care........it doesn't state anything about if the cat being feral then that's a different matter. 

And as Teresa has pointed out, like her I don't resent taking any needy cat into my care........and I have taken many that have been turned down by our local rescues.  As far as the petition goes, I haven't signed it, and haven't even read it to be honest.........I think local branches do sterling work and my problem lies with the call centre and HQ.

[Teresa Pawcats]

On the one hand people are unhappy that theRSPCA do not want to accept responsibility for every animal they come into contact with, yet seem resentful about their own charity taking the animal.

Whilst I have no intention of publically stating my own complaints re any other organisation I would like to make it quite clear that Paws Inn never resents taking any needy cat indeed to the contrary All genuine needy cats taken and the more unwanted the more loved and welcomed they are.

[Lindyloo]

Okay  I won't disagree the call centre staff may leave a lot to be desired ( call centres are a pet hate of mine, ) but is this a policy issue? What is the petition trying to acheive? And is continually bashing RSPCA HQ helping animals?   I still don't understand why people are so critical of them as an organisation. On the one hand people are unhappy that theRSPCA do not want to accept responsibility for every animal they come into contact with, yet seem resentful about their own charity taking the animal. What is the difference? Why should the RSPCA who have a broader remit  take that animal rather than a charity who's sole funtion is rehoming?
The RSPCA are a large charity but they do not have limitless accommodation or funds plus they deal with many other areas of animal welfare.
The case of the feral cat is tricky.  First  do you think feral cat work is another area the RSPCA are supposed to deal with? Couldn't a local cat specific charity deal with it. Was it just a financial contribution you wanted or did you want the Inspector to deal with the whole thing?
Lynn

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

This is what I'm saying though, this information came from the call centre and just proves they have idiots answering the phone who haven't got a clue.  So if they're giving out the wrong info on something so simple, is it any wonder that animals don't get the help they need and the general public are fobbed off.  My advice to anyway who needs to phone up the RSPCA, is to keep trying until you get someone that is prepared to help and talk some sense..........don't take the advice off the first person who answers the phone if they sound as if they are talking through the backside.

Ela, I'm pretty sure it's gone up to £60 now but I'll check tonight for you.

[Ela]

I was told if they paid any money out to help this cat, the cat would then become the property of the RSPCA and an inspector would be sent out to the vets to collect him and he wouldn't necessarily go back to where he came from  Now I know this to be absolute poppy Banana, if

I agree bull  , so many times we are asked by a vet if we will take a RTA that has been taken to the vet by an inspector and after the first £50 they don't want to know. They are happy to pass the cat on to us then

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

Another instance where they don't know what they are talking about........I phoned them for a log number to get some help towards a feral cat that had a fractured leg, I was told if they paid any money out to help this cat, the cat would then become the property of the RSPCA and an inspector would be sent out to the vets to collect him and he wouldn't necessarily go back to where he came from  Now I know this to be absolute poppy fluffybanana, if that was the case, nearly every animal in the vicinity would be "owned" by the RSPCA.  This cat was a feral, already had somewhere that he called home and they are telling me, he could end up somewhere else.........why would any organisation take an animal out of his surroundings, and move him to the unknown    Sadly, I know if this had been the case, he would have been put to sleep as he wouldn't have settled elsewhere and what else would they have done with him 

[Ela]

I think 5 Inspectors may be a bit of an exageration, may be not, but continuing to use a cat up a tree as an example

I kid you not I saw that programme myself so know it was true. 5 inspectors definitely.

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

Banana ups are going to be made,

 This wasn't the way I worded it 

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

I am on our local RSPCA committee and we've had the discussion numerous times about how the call centre deal with the public, most don't know what they are talking about, they give the wrong advice and don't pass the information onto the inspectors..........in fact, most are useless.  This problem needs to be addressed and until such time, fluffybanana ups are going to be made, animals are not going to get the help they need and inspectors are not getting the right info.  I have spoken to people where they've made numerous phone calls to the RSPCA and nothing has been done, not even an inspector going round.........when I've mentioned this to our local inspector, he hasn't even had the info passed onto him.  I called them a couple of years ago about a dog that was in an appalling state, my friend had phoned them about 5 times and no one would go out.........I got onto them, threatened them with the papers if no one had called by the next day and low and behold the inspector went round.  This shouldn't have to be the way to go about helping animals..........the call centre needs a swift kick up the backside and they need proper training and yes, they should be genuine animal lovers as not all of them just see it as a job.

[Lindyloo]

Yes Dawn but if you are a genuine animal lover you probably don't want to work in a call centre. They probably have to take who they can get. It is easy to say what should be done - not so easy to do it. They have to deal with the reality of the situation not theory.
Lynn

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

Sadly there is a shortage of inspectors within the RSPCA and sadly because of this, animals do suffer.  But alot of the complaints that I hear about on the forum to do with the RSPCA are not always personally their fault.  When you phone the RSPCA number, you are put through to a call centre........these peeps are nothing to do with the RSPCA, they are just doing a job and, it is then these peeps that "pass" the information on to the inspectors who hopefully can then deal with it.  When I have dealt with them in the past, if I've not been happy with what they've told me, I've phoned them again until I've got someone on the other end who's sole concern is the animals and not someone who can't wait to get home after doing a shift answering phone calls.  This is where the RSPCA get a lot of flak, they need to sort out their call centre staff and get genuine animal lovers in, then maybe the public and the animals, will get the service they need.

[Lindyloo]

This is obviously something people are never going to agree about. Re Rolf Harris I think it a little unfair to use this as an example that was hardly typical. I think 5 Inspectors may be a bit of an exageration, may be not, but continuing to use a cat up a tree as an example- One of our cats got stuck up a tree once in a neighbours garden, a very tall conifer. Did we call out the RSPCA? No the neighbour happened to have a very long ladder which he  lent us and my husband climbed up to rescue our cat. It seems to be the easy option to "call the RSPCA" rather than people doing something themselves. People view them as being there to deal with everything and anything that involves an animal. I could give numerous examples of instances when people have called the RSPCA about minor things or situations when (in my opinion) they could have made some effort to sort out the situation themselves.
You work in animal rescue as I did for many years ,surely you have been called out to "rescue" some "starving abandoned cat, in a terrible state". You know from experience this is almost certainly some very elderly but much loved puss who has probably just lost his bearings.
Can you get the caller to knock on a few neighbours door to ask if they know who the cat belongs to. No you can't. Instead you have to turn  out and travel to the other side of town to do just that and discover  the cat lives just a few doors away.
Some people expect too much from the RSPCA and too little from themselves.
Lynn

[Ela]

I wonder how some of the rescue people on this forum would feel if some disgruntled person asked for their charity to be investigated because of a difference of opinion.

I read what you say and I do appreciate that people do sometimes complain because they cannot get their way.

What I think a lot of the concerns is that the name RSPCA The P meaning Prevention yet when people call they are often told because it has not yet happened there is nothing that can be done. When we used to see Rolf Harris on TV he would  sometimes be surrounded by up to 5 inspectors to rescue a cat from a tree. The call may have been made about the situation less than an hour ago and the cat may have been up the tree a few hours.  If I called about a similar situation I would be told that unless the cat has been there for 3 days nothing could be done. I myself have rung about a far worse case and been told that there is only one inspector covering 5 counties on that day. Very recently 2 puppies were in a house opposite me for 5 days with only 1 bowl of water during the whole time,  I was told that as long as the puppies were still barking and running round the house nothing could be done. I think it is this type of thing that upsets people.

It is  for members of the RSPCA to decide how it is run not just any member of the public  - If you do not belong to or support an organisation why do you think you should have a say in what they do?

.

I agree it is not for members of the public who are not members to decide how the RSPCA should be run. But if members of the public have concerns about the actions or rather lack of actions they need to be stated. Also please remember there are many thousands of members of the public who donate to the RSPCA but are not  actual members of the RSPCA.

[Lindyloo]

The RSPCA is not a government body, it is a charity that decides its own policies like any similar organisation.  It is  for members of the RSPCA to decide how it is run not just any member of the public. I belong to the RSPCA ,as I have said before they may not be perfect but by and large they do a good job and I wish people would support them not endlessly criticise. If you do not belong to or support an organisation why do you think you should have a say in what they do?
 What policies are we refering to here that some people obviously do not like?  Even within animal welfare circles people have different ideas.  That does not  mean one is right, one is wrong  sometimes there are just two views.
I wonder how some of the rescue people on this forum would feel if some disgruntled person asked for their charity to be investigated because of a difference of opinion.
I will not be signing the petition and really do not know what people are trying to acheive by it.
Lynn

[Millys Mum]

1710!!