Breeders - I am a bit confused here......................

[Rosella moggy]

On paper, I did a terrible thing when I got my beloved tabby Jameson... I fell in love with this creature and when she told me she was about to sell him, I took the plunge and said I'll take him... BECAUSE, it would've broken my heart knowing he would have to leave his safe surroundings go to just another random home, and who knows, maybe get abandoned or sold on again. .......it doesn't take away the fact if it wasn't for me offering to buy Jameson I wouldn't be sure he would have gone to as safe and loving home that I'm giving him,  I love him with all my heart, and I don't care about anything else, ......Many people will probably disagree with my actions and say there were other ways to have done it, I can't see how though..

Jamieson is lucky to have such a caring mom but he is a hunk  . Not a chance that I would have done anything differently  . Must be horrible to have such a neighbour though 

I think it's safe to say you are thought of as reputable Linda.... also a little Bengal crazy perhaps?    Now come on, Velvet does have "his own indoor pad". Nuff said!

[Linda (Bengalbabe)]

I am one of the breeders on this forum and hopefully considered a reputable one.  I dont keep my cats in pens outdoors, indeed even my stud boy Velvet has his own indoor pad.  I can assure everyone on this forum that i DO NOT make money from my breeding.  I dont plan to go into personal financial circumstances but it shouldnt be too difficult to work out that the costs involved in responsible breeding are significant.  I have invested lots in my cats not only financially but emotionally which is exactly as it should be.

I do accept that there are lots of breeders out there who quite simply shouldnt be breeding.  I also accept the view of those in rescue who are against all breeding full stop.  I dont however believe that as a responsible breeder you are excluded from loving all cats whatever they are and therefore being supportive in one way or another to those in rescue situations.  Indeed I do agree all breeders should do something to support.

Im very much of the view that people are entitled to gather facts and then make their own decision as to whether they have a rescue/pedigree/moggy in their lives.  The most important thing is that any furbabe is loved and cared for 

[Desley (booktigger)]

I think so Kirst - the breeders on the American forum I use also either volunteer in time or money too, so they are still helping rescue cats. So in some ways, that makes them better than Joe Public, as not everyone who owns cats volunteers.

[caledonia]

I don't have any opinions either way. All my cats have been pedigrees but they have all been rescued cats - so I am an inbetweeny!!!

The only view I do have which was mentioned earlier is I don't really agree with cats being kept in pens outside for the sole purpose of breeding for their entire life or at least a big majority of it. It would be ideal if a cat was used for one litter but it is the Queens that are used twice a year regulalry - well to my 'know nothing about breeding' self that seems a lot and very tiring for the poor mite! Likeise the 'studs' that are shipped around for the soel pupose of mating - well it all just seems a bit clinical!

I know nothing about breeding I just think it would be nice if some breeders treated their cats like one of the family too!

p.s I know the above is not everyone!

[Kirst]

Maybe a real case of you cant tar everyomne with the same brush?? On the Ragdoll rescue site I was looking at earlier there were some breeders who also vounteered at shelters.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Well, you are entitled to your opinion Michelle, but reputable breeders aren't worse than Joe Bloggs, from a rescue point of view - we dont pick pregnant peds up off the street cos they have either got lost while finding a mate or cos their owner allowed them to get pregnant then dump them, so we don't have to go through the experience of said pregnant cats having difficulties and losing the kittens. Also decent breeders do checks for things, so they are limiting FIV/FeLV being spread. They also do it for good reasons. I actually dont think they can make money off it, but that is going off our costs as a rescue, I dont know how much the tests, stud fees etc are. I did come across an article once about how much it costs to breed, I shall see if I can find it again, as it was informative. And the breeder I spoke to last week has worked the whole time she was breeding as she couldnt afford to live otherwise.
Obviously none of this applies to non reputable breeders, they are probably worse than Joe Bloggs.

[Kirst]

Chav ped! Do you kit him out in burberry with a bling collar?

Thanks for everyones views - I have decided that if at all possible my next kitty will be e rescue one - the hunt is on!

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

Ok this comes from someone who does have a pedigree cat (a chav ped as he doesnt have papers lol) , aswell as 10 moggies !

I actually think breeders are worse than "joe bloggs" who's cat gets pregnant !
9/10 joe bloggs cat gets pregnant through an accident or through ignorance - where as a breeder is deliberately adding to the population of cats and deliberately putting their cat through pregnancy, labour, bringing up the kittens and then giving them away !
Ok so a breeder checks that the Father is clear of FIV/FeLV/FIP, that is really the only difference.

Alot (not all) of breeders also keep their breeding stock in outside pens, they arnt 100% indoor family pets. And i dont care what anyone says, they DO make money out of it.

Well thats my view on things, my PERSONAL opinion

[Kirst]

I guess that you just have to be very very careful if you choose to use a breeder where they come form and check them out carefully! I think that a rescue kitty is next on the cards tho , if I can find the right one!

Fred-cat doesnt really count - he chose us!

[Desley (booktigger)]

I personally am not against reputable breeders, they are not the reason there are so many cats in rescue, that is down to people allowing their moggies to breed. I have spoken to some nice breeders, in fact i spoke to one last Sun, who does take back her cats if the owner can't keep them, her theory is that she is responsbile for them, and thinks all breeders should do that. She also spent quite a few years doing the rescue side for the breed. I think it would be nice if all breeders had to spend some time helping at a rescue though. I also dont think that if certain breeds died out, that it would gain more homes for moggies - a lot of people love a breed for a certain reason, and some would rather not own a cat than own that breed. And lets face it, a lot of the breeds have been around for longer than anyone on this forum (although probably dont look much like the original ones), so why should they die out cos of irrespsonsible people?

[Gillian Harvey]

I have rescue moggies, I have rescue Persians - I also have 5 persians that I've had since I bought them as kittens, 4 from a lovely breeder (she's since stopped breeding) who has become my very good friend, and 1 from another great breeder who has been breeding gorgeous colourpoint persians for over 20 yrs. Neither of them keep their cats cats in cages, the cats are part of the family in the home and once retired, all the ex-breeding cats, male and female, are neutered and spayed and continue to be part of the family, they are never re-homed. However, I am totally against 'backyard breeders' who unfortunately give breeders a bad name.

All cats are wonderful wherever they came from. 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I second what others have said and you need have no fear here cos we all love cats.

Rescue is our business and we support rescues on here but many members have pedigrees , some from breeders and others as rescues.

We also have breeders on here who have the most fantastic cats, so we cover a very wide spectrum but what we also do is hold events where the money goes to help our rescues like our annual auction and the forthcoming cat show.

We urge all members to support these events because the money goes to helping needy cats.

I have two moggies from Cp and two birmans who were not wanted by their owner anymore and despite Angies tough stance, she loves all cats in need, she helped to transport the birmans to me 

So dont feel you have to hide from us cos you dont Kirst, we will give advice to anyone with a cat to the best of our ability 

[Kirst]

http://www.birmancatclub.co.uk/welfare.htm

http://www.birmancatclub.co.uk/specialhome.shtml

Hope this helps 

*Edited as found latest version of special home needed page*

OMG the first one is the  absolute spit of Oscar - unfortunately he needs to be an only cat so not the puss for us - but when the time comes I shall be in touch and see if there is anyone who needs a good home who will fit in with our family!

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Hi Kirst, I have had both pedigrees and moggies and have even been a breeder at one time in my life. I can see both sides of the argument, and can completely see where the people involved in rescue are coming from. But I would be disappointed if exposure to the various views on this forum were to make you feel guilty for a well-researched and considered decision taken many years ago. Stick with us long enough and you will hear various stories from both sides of the fence, and will be able to form your own view.

I agree with that. 

Like many have already said, the primary purpose of this site is to support and raise funds for rescues.  Those who are actively involved in rescue are more acutely aware of the number of homeless cats that are in rescues and on the streets, so many are opposed to any sort of deliberate breeding.  Others are ok with reputable breeding.  We all have our own opinions on this and there are varying opinions among members.  Many of us on here own pedigree cats (myself included) - some rescue cats and others bought from breeders.  We also have a couple of good breeders who are members.  Every one is welcome here, regardless of their stance on breeding and whether they own pedigree cats, rescue cats or both (or none).  Don't feel bad about having bought a pedigree cat.  You sound like you did a lot of research first and found a good breeder.  Maybe your opinion will change and you will decide not to buy another pedigree.  Or maybe it won't and you will feel happy to buy another cat from a reputable breeder.  That's totally up to you.

[tigerbaby]

As much as I love pedigree cats like persians, bengals etc I don't think I'll ever buy one from a reputable breeder anyway. Not only because I know nothing about pedigree and breeders (really) but also because pedigree cats (aswell as dogs) generally are more expensive to buy, to maintain, to insure and if I understood it correctly, are prone to more health problems than a mixed breed/moggy. I also believe in cats having the freedom to come and go through a flap as they please, and if I bought a pedigree cat I would be worried to let them go outside in fear that someone would steal them. A pedigree bengal seems much more exotic and attractive than a 'normal' moggy to some people

On paper, I did a terrible thing when I got my beloved tabby Jameson... in that, my neighbour is that kind of person who buys and sells animals on (dogs, cats, rabbits) etc and I am very much against that (volunteering at Mayhew opened my eyes to that!) - although when we moved in to our house, this gorgeous tabby kept coming to visit and pretty much moved in with us. I fell in love with this creature and when she told me she was about to sell him, I took the plunge and said I'll take him... BECAUSE, it would've broken my heart knowing he would have to leave his safe surroundings go to just another random home, and who knows, maybe get abandoned or sold on again. To me, I rescued him, I took him under my wing. But obviously on paper, I 'supported' someone who cares little about animal welfare, and I did feel terrible when she bought another kitten the very same night (!) for the small amount of money I gave her.. only for that black kitten to be sold on a week later. But it doesn't take away the fact if it wasn't for me offering to buy Jameson I wouldn't be sure he would have gone to as safe and loving home that I'm giving him,  I love him with all my heart, and I don't care about anything else, and I am very proud to have taken him into my home, especially as we didn't plan to even get a cat - and I had to learn all about being a cat-owner pretty much overnight! Many people will probably disagree with my actions and say there were other ways to have done it, I can't see how though..

Still, I would love to adopt a cat from a rescue, and I'm working on convincing my partner (who is a cat-lover too, but thinks 1 cat is enough!).

[Team Svartalfheims]

http://www.birmancatclub.co.uk/welfare.htm

http://www.birmancatclub.co.uk/specialhome.shtml

Hope this helps 

*Edited as found latest version of special home needed page*

[Dawn F]

I volunteer at the Lewknor branch so if I hear anything.....

there must be a birman rescue set up???

[Kirst]

Well later on in May I would like to get a little kitten friend to keep Beavis company - I dont want one before that as we are going away for a week and I want to be sure I can spend the time with it to settle it in!

We would ideally like another Birman , but would happily take in any other kind of kitty as long as he fitted the bill - he needs to be a homey cat , we have a fairly busy road nearby and my catkins get closed in at night so anyone that wants to be a night prowler wouldnt be happy !

I will of course be searching the rescue centres first - Burford blue cross is close to me but if anyone knows of some kittens available at the beginning of June who want to share a home with a very fluffy , soppy and loving Birman please do let me know!

[sheryl]

Dont feel guilty Hun, we have got both Peds and rescue cats.  We have had rescue cats for the past 20yrs and have loved and cherished each and every one of them and miss each one that has gone to the Rainbow Bridge every day.

I have always wanted a Bengal and last year my OH bought me 2 for my Birthday, then last month we bought a Snow Bengal kitten - all from the same breeder.  She is what I would call a good breeder, all the cats are kept in immaculate condition, she only lets her queens have 2 litters and she is always there to give help/ advice if needed.  There are no dark rooms or small pens and whist I can see the other side to this please do not Tar all breeders with the same brush

[blackcat]

Hi Kirst, I have had both pedigrees and moggies and have even been a breeder at one time in my life. I can see both sides of the argument, and can completely see where the people involved in rescue are coming from. But I would be disappointed if exposure to the various views on this forum were to make you feel guilty for a well-researched and considered decision taken many years ago. Stick with us long enough and you will hear various stories from both sides of the fence, and will be able to form your own view.

[Kirst]

Ok , thats opened my eyes a bit.

Just as a note , the lady I bought Beavis and Oscar from (for not an extortionate amount of money I must add!) actually works at the vets , and the cats came fully vaccinated.

[Kittybabe (Ruth)]

I should add, on behalf of Purrs, this site is a Supporter of Rescues and the goal of this site is to raise funds to help rescues function financially in what we know is a difficult Catch22 situation.

However, whether you have pedigrees or rescues, all cat lovers who wish to support rescues are very welcome here.

We also have a couple members who are breeders and again, they are very much part of our community and are welcome too.

We'll all have our opinions on breeding, however, I hope any one opinion whether for or against does not put off any current or future members who wish to contribute to our fundraising efforts..

[Mark]

I would say that primarily this is (or is supposed to be?) a rescue site. Every animal possible should be spayed or neutered in my opinion. There are millions of animals being euthanised as there aren't enough homes to go round. This is the harsh reality 

[Ela]

Your soapbox speech sound purrfect to me and my sentiments exactly.

I would also say that sometime  where you view the cats is not exactly where they have spent the time before you viewed. I know one breeder who keeps the cats/ kittens in a tiny dark room and others whose cats live their life out in tiny cages. .But when someone goes they see cats in a nice environment.

[Angiew]

I'm quite outspoken about my dislike of breeders. If you've been in rescue for a while then you get to see the true misery of unwanted cats and kittens and come up against the worse aspects of this.

Personally, I think even good breeders add to the mentality that cats and kittens are a commodity to be bought and sold, and more peddies means less good loving homes for the moggies who are just as nice.

There are also a growing number of peddies that come into rescue - sometimes when the owners can't cope with the breed, be it the persians thick coats or breathing problems, the bengals naughtiness or the siameses intelligence.

The whole pedigree thing encourages breeding animals for these looks - sometimes a the expense of the overall health of the cat (persians and the changng shape of siamese spring to mind).

I konw there are good breeders out there , but on the back of them come the not so good breeders, the totally dodgy breeders and the moggie breeder most of whom are out to make a quick buck and don't give a damn about the animals in their care. If they did, how could a breeder casually give away an old breeding queen? Some breeders who STILL claim to be hobby breeders, keep the cats in runs and the kittens are not properly socialised. Those of course with stud cats have them outside. I've met hobby breeders who don't realise that they have changed into something else and then go on to talk about a litter as being worth £2000 - sorry thats not hobby.

And as to breeds dying out, there really is nothing special about breeds , they are the result of selective breeding and if all we had now in the world were moggies then in 100 years time (or whatever) a good selective breeder with knowldge of genetics could probably recreate all the breeds we have today.

And the myth of no kittens being born is just that. There will always be strays and ferals out there who are having kittens. In a ideal world rescues would be able to have time and resource to get on top of these, socialise and home them - just look at what a brilliant job hippykitty has done with the cats she trapped last year.

Yesterday, I had an email via our website from someone who wanted her pregnant cat rehomed as she couldn't cope with new kittens as her other cat had a litter of 7 - now if this is a true situation (I'm waiting to hear back from her) then how sad - do people not know how kittens are created?

Anyway, someone give an old woman a hand to get off this soapbox...

[Dawn F]

I think you might be worrying for nothing to be honest lol! if you like cats you'd be welcome here if you had rescues, pedigrees or something inbetween!

[Kirst]

Dont get me wrong , I have had rescue cats in the past and Fred-cat was a stray that used to come into the garden , and once we managed to convince him we were nice people(honest!) and got him to the vets for de-dleaning , vacs , chipping etc etc he moved in to took over the house.

[Dawn F]

a lot of the people on here are rescue people and so obviously see how many cats needing homes there are - don't think anyone is against good breeders though

[Kirst]

Looking on here I get the imporession that buying form a breeder is a really bad thing - I bought my two lovelys from a registered Birman Breeder ten years ago (they have pedigrees as long as my arm but dont tell them that!) and when i went round to see them at her home it was a veritable cat paradise - More toys and treats than the pet shop!

I chose to get them form her as she was recommended by three of the vets in the area , and I wanted that particular breed as having done my research they were described as the perfect house/lap cat , who like  a bit of outdoor life but are not in general wanderers (got that right , they have never ventured out of the garden!)

Now Im thinking did I do a really bad thing?? I dont want to encourage animal mistreatment!!!!!