Wishes for Rosie please

[Mark]

Has she tried Felix senior - the foil trays?  That has a relatively low phosphorous content, Tiggy was on that for a few months happily until she realised she could hold out for Gourmet pearl 

Funny but mine won't touch the senior alutrays but they will eat the senior pouches 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Has she tried Felix senior - the foil trays?  That has a relatively low phosphorous content, Tiggy was on that for a few months happily until she realised she could hold out for Gourmet pearl 

Awwwwwwwwww cats and I so agree that if eating is one of her few pleasures, then its best to be a panda 

[Tiggy's Mum]

Has she tried Felix senior - the foil trays?  That has a relatively low phosphorous content, Tiggy was on that for a few months happily until she realised she could hold out for Gourmet pearl 

[Bazsmum]

Aw....its a shame she wont eat the sp diet food but if they all did what they were all supposed to would'nt life be a doddle!  I know that it is better for Rosie to eat than not eat whether it is the recommended food or not at this point is really immaterial....the main thing is she still has her pleasure's......

Good luck with finding her something she can tuck into that hasnt got too many naughty ingredients in! 

>Rosie 

[Desley (booktigger)]

Well, Rosie is off the renal food, she acted starving when I got up yesterday as she had barely eaten her tea, and I put just the tiniest bit in her normal food, 40 mins later she was still acting hungry, as she didn't want to eat it, so I took it away and gave her her normal food. She tucked in, and I got the first clean bowl since I started trying to change her food on Sun. Last night she ate loads of food, and seemed that bit livelier. I am going to try the dry renal food, to see if she can tolerate that, and if so, that might be a bit of a compromise, and I have bought Whiskas Senior - my Asda is poor for that though, but I have to go to PAH on Sat, they might have a better selection. I have mixed some in with HiLife chicken for her this morning, just been into check, and she has eaten more HiLife than Whiskas, so we will just have to see what she eats during the day.

[Tan]

Can we keep this thread an a calm level and related to the topic which is wishes for Rosie please. 

With so many members and many different Rescues with us, we are bound to get different views and advice and they are best kept on a polite level to give the best help possible.  When any advice is given with many different opinions, it is up to the individual to take on board all that is said and act.  All our rescues are recuses cause they care very very much about cats in their care and at times we may have to agree to disgaree with different methods or care chosen. From knowing many of you in rescue for years on CC and here, i know it's soo not easy at all in rescue and it is good to exchange your differnent points of view as many of us can learn alot from those threads and start to understand just what hard work and care you all do. 

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

I think there needs to be a balance between airing views and respecting someones decisions. I dont agree that mixing fcov cats with so many others is in anyones best interests but i let that thread lay. 

And who mentioned anything about ANY of mine having FCOV, I certainly didn't.  If you read back the posts, I stated that most cats in a rescue situation, breeding establishment whatever, would have it.  At no time did I say any of mine did so that's you jumping to conclusions which is abit different than airing ones views.  If you read up on FCOV, you will find MOST cats have the Corona Virus.  Up to date, I haven't had any reason to test any of mine for the virus, the only one I tested was Vita, she was kept separate when she came back positive and up to that point, she was in a dog cage most of the time because she didn't like other cats.  She was rehomed in a single cat household where she wouldn't pose any risk to others.  And seeing as you are fit to comment on me so called mixing, have your cats been tested for the virus, I doubt it very much.  You will find most rescue cats have this virus, if any had health problems that would indicate they had it, then they would be tested.  As far as airing views, Des stated Rosie wasn't happy, I'm sorry if no one is allowed to pick up on that point but tough, I did and so did many others. 

[Millys Mum]

Desley, whatever you do with regards to Rosie I know it will be for the best. You see her every day and care for her, so you're the one who can read the situation better than anyone.

This is what I can't understand with this thread    Des has stated quite categorically that Rosie is not happy and that was the main reason why she wasn't going down the treatment route.  If this is the case, why is everyone supporting that by leaving her be in a situation she obviously isn't happy in, is in Rosie's best interest 

I think there needs to be a balance between airing views and respecting someones decisions. I dont agree that mixing fcov cats with so many others is in anyones best interests but i let that thread lay. 

[Mark]

I got a pill down him this morning in a piece of fish that I cooked last night. The strange thing is, I expected him to be poorly this morning but he was jumping around the garden chasing a leaf  - Last night he was hunched up in a ball. It's difficult to give him pills. He isn't at all agressive but he goes limp with fear and cries like a baby. It is so pitiful  - he plays dead at the vets as well - it is really upsetting to see.

I know tonight won't be a problem as I have a cornfeed freerange chicken and Clapton won't even notice the pill in the parsons nose 

[Ela]

I do hope Clapton soons starts on his medication again, perhaps I could lend you my index finger in my right hand, it seems better than any pill popper I know. Works every time even with the most agressive cat. My problem is that my Jeannie parrt from her Felimazole and Fortekor also has to have 1/8 of a very small tablet once a day now that is hard as it seems to go round and round the mouth and if it comes out it is so so  I cannot see it on the carpet.

[Mark]

I have found the new whiskas senior "Fishermans's Choice" seems to go down best - they are 2 boxes for £5 in Sainsbury's at the moment. I believe they are around 1% phosphorus compared to regular being around 1.4 and renal 0.4. I don't know why some vets are against binders.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Fingers crossed for him Mark - I am struggling with Rosie and Renal food, even a small amount mixed with her normal wet isn't going down that great, yet she did eat a smal amount on its own last night. Ovrenight she hasn't eaten up, so was starving and preferring to eat dry than wet, which is probably worse than her eating normal food. Got to get a couple of phosphorus levels to work out which alternative to use - one of the reasons I rarely feed senior food is I haven't found one wiht a decent meat content, but I have bought some of the 'normal' brands for her.

[Mark]

[quote author=Gill (sneakiefeline) link=topic=13933.msg241404#msg24 He also advise to let her eat what she wanted cos anything was better than nothing and she had a history of refusing to eat and would starve herself rather than eat what she didnt want!

[/quote]

I was just reading the same thing a moment ago on John Burns website (I assume it's person that does the food?)

Quite a good and straightforward site http://www.holisticpethealth.co.uk/health_management_programme.htm

Wild horses won't make Clapton eat renal food so I have to compromise. I have managed to medicate OK for months but for the last 2 days he has spat them out - I can see him going downhill already. He is sleeping now but I am determined to get him back on them as they are doing him so much good.

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

Dawn may be you should read every thing Desley posted about Rosie and then you will see why people are supporting her and her decision.

I have read it Pav over and over again and I still stick with my views.   The posts seem to contradict themselves when reference is made to Rosie being happy.  I think if anyone put themselves in her situation, she would tell a different story 

I'm glad you're trying the food now Des, and I think what CS was saying was even though Fabes didn't appear dehydrated, when checked by the vets, he was so may be worth getting her checked out.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Thanks CS, but already spent hours on that site over the weekend, the food she is guaranteed to eat with no tummy issues isn't on there. I cant' actually find phosphorus on packaging, never mind work it out!!

[candyshandy]

Check out this website it has a list of foods and their content:

felinecrf.org

I can't get on it at the moment so there may be a temporary problem with it.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Some food for thought there Gill - fortunately she isn't bothered by travelling, I think SAturday's visit was more stressful for me than her. Vet is very insistent on special food, but she isn't eating as much with it, so we shall have to see - she hasn't had much of it yet though. i need to figure out how to work out phosphorus of the other foods she likes to eat - she isn't a picky eater (well, her owners said she was), but she does have a runny tum with certain foods.
CS - I do keep doig the snap test on her neck -  not brave enough to check her gums!! Defo no constipation issues yet, although there are 2 things I know have the opposite effect, so if she suffers with that, I do have ways round it.

[candyshandy]

I'm not sure how you can check this but Fabes was drinking a lot before he was admitted last week and he was dehydrated.  One side effect he had was constipation so perhaps you could keep an eye on her poos.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Desley, Kocka had kidney injections  and they caused her to limp badly and become very stressed, they were the alternative to tablets as she could not be medicated.

My vet in London said it was best to stop them due to her stress and to keep her away from vets as long as possible, again due to her stress. He also advise to let her eat what she wanted cos anything was better than nothing and she had a history of refusing to eat and would starve herself rather than eat what she didnt want!

I didnt know about cat chat until after Kocka had gone to the bridge so didnt know about any special foods I could have tried, its unlikely she would have ate them  but I never had a chance to try.

I hope Rosie has  a happy life now as you know her well and if she wants to be in one room, then thats happyiness for her. 

[Desley (booktigger)]

I would like to say one thing in response to Ela - I am doing the same with Rosie as I would if I had got the same diagnosis for Molly - and I did state that on Saturday. Admittedly it is cos Molly is more temperamental than Rosie is, but my vet is aware of my views, as I have a knack of getting cats that we can't do much with (although hopefully she will have a break from aggressive cats, at times I wonder if she likes seeing me!!). And sadly not all CP branches are like yours, when I fostered for CP, I did have to get permission to go to the vets.
Rosie doesn't like the Alutrays, but I really don't blame her, they looked and smelt awful. She wasn't too bad with the Chicken pouches though, although isn't eating as much as before I added the renal food, so I bought some of her favourite crunchies to try and entice her to eat more (not normally an issue with her) of it, and then wean her back off those. I have taken her outside again today, she stayed out longer today, and enjoyed a potter in the sun, and even wanted to jump, so certainly getting more interest in things!!When we got in, she got her catnip drop and crunchies, she was in such a deep sleep when I have just been in to see her, it took a lot to wake her up, so she must have tired herself out, bless her. Rolo is learning to walk away cos she goes mad at him, the vet did warn me cats would struggle with him though, cos they can't read him as well due to having no tail. I actually checked my records, and she has been here less than I thought, it is actually 5 weeks tomorrow (scary that I have lost a week or two!!), so hopefully Pav and Gill are right, and that she will improve in time, the poor thing has had one owner all her life, and then at 15, feeling crap cos of her kidneys (and she did have diarrhea when she came), having to come to a strange place, and Rolo is a bit in your face, bless him, so maybe I am just expecting too much.  
CS - I actually thought I had used the terms 'not truly' and 'not 100%', but I had miscalculated how long she had been here. Medication isn't being done following vet advice, although she did mention Vit B and K injections, as well as steroids - but she is eating well (or was, before I tried to introduce new foods - typical cat!!). Fortunately, her only symptom is excessive drinking and weeing, I Can't see any signs of dehydration,

[candyshandy]

There is clearly some confusion here.

In the first post it is stated that she isn't happy whereas further down the thread it says she is.  Is it perhaps the fact that Rosie has settled since the first post and is now content?

It would appear from the wording in the posts that there is a reluctance to 'treat' Rosie with either renal food or medication. 

I understand the problem re the medication - I am very lucky as Fabes actually cries for me to give him his tablets and I'm not sure how I would cope if he fought against it.

Fabes initially loved his renal food but as soon as he walked into the house from the hospital he decided that he would rather have his old biscuits.   I am now mixing the two foods as the vet said this is preferable to not eating anything. 

My own concern is that during CRF and if the cat is not hydrated then they will feel as if they have a constant hangover - that was why I suggested that perhaps the food could be introduced.  There may be more required to limit this though, unfortunately I am not an expert.  I am just thinking along the lines that no matter how long Rosie has left at least she won't be feeling as bad.

I am a completely newbie in respect of CRF and have taken advice from Fabes' vet at Uni of Liverpool and of course Elaine who I consider to be a lay 'expert' in the condition.  In addition, my vet (who is a feline specialist in the UK) has recommended I join CRF forums and discuss worries/treatment/supplements etc with people who are 'going through it'.  Obviously I would have to run anything by her but I feel its refreshing to hear such an attitude.

Elaine may be able to advise on supplements which would make Rosie more comfortable without being too invasive - unfortunately there are some that Fabes cannot take due to his hypercalcaemia but I know B vitamins are extremely helpful.

[pappilon]

Dawn may be you should read every thing Desley posted about Rosie and then you will see why people are supporting her and her decision.

[Bazsmum]

By not happy here, I mean she lives in the bathroom and doesn't like seeing the other cats, she does seem content in the bathroom though.
Her owners described her as an independent cat who you barely saw, she is happy to sit on my knee, and I have taken her into the cat room the past two nights to save my legs, and she has settled on my knee and only moved cos I have made her - I had to get up twice while i was with her last night, and she happily came back on my knee, so at least she is different in a good way.

 

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

Desley, whatever you do with regards to Rosie I know it will be for the best. You see her every day and care for her, so you're the one who can read the situation better than anyone.

This is what I can't understand with this thread    Des has stated quite categorically that Rosie is not happy and that was the main reason why she wasn't going down the treatment route.  If this is the case, why is everyone supporting that by leaving her be in a situation she obviously isn't happy in, is in Rosie's best interest 

[CurlyCatz]

I know its not fair on them.  I have even heard of in the past of fosterers even using their own money which is quite comendable i think.

[Ela]

I do not know for sure but i wonder if that may be an issue and should imagine it must be very difficult for fosterers if it is.

If the above means what I think it does then all I can say is when I ask our fosterers to take in   cats they  have a responsibility to ensure they get every chance in life and all are treated as we would our own. It  is my responsibility to ensure the fosterer's have the financial support.  I think there is no point in rescuing if the fosterers could not then do everything that is needed to try to ensure  a cats wellbeing. All our fosterers are supported 100% by me and know I will find the money somehow and our vets know that whatever the cost we will do anything to try to ensure a quality life.

I would feel sorry for any fosterer who would  to ask a co-ordinator or manager for permission before any tests etc could be taken, then again I would feel sorry for myself as most of our fosterers are at the vets every day and I would receive even more phone calls.

[Felix (Caroline)]

Sending lots of love to you all

[JackSpratt]

Desley, whatever you do with regards to Rosie I know it will be for the best. You see her every day and care for her, so you're the one who can read the situation better than anyone.

I hope the dignified lady is doing OK today. Sending her fusses. (And the others too, of course!)

[Mark]

I don't think Clapton would be alive today if it wasn't for Fortekor. He needed a steroid jab to kick-start his appetite and the toxins were built up so much that he was really poorly and his stomach gurgled all the time. He was just wasting away.

[Ela]

Vet doesn't recommend Fortekor though, she says it only works for cats that either have protein in their urine, or a low appetite -

I really do not understand the vets comment. My Jeannie was diagnosed with CRF over 15 months ago and was immediately put on Fortekor she had none of the above symptoms. To be honest at the time she was diagnosed we thought she was on her way to Rainbow Bridge, as she went blind and was also diagnosed with blood pressure and thyroid probs also. Yet she has a very happy little life abeit on medication,  We also take in a number of cats in with CRF some of them at a very advanced stage. However, all are given medication and have survived with a quality life. One of our fosterers has a 'golden oldie' Ria who came in with CRF and  mammary tumours over 3 years ago and she has a nice little life although at the time no one thought she had long but we wanted to give her every chance. We also have another cat in with CRF she was diagnosed over a year ago, her owner gave her Fortekor for 1 month then stopped. Early January this year she came into our care and our vet  immediately put her on a drip for 4 days as she was so bad. The vet prescribed Fortekor and now she is a different cat and hopefully we will find her a home

I do appreciate however that what works for some may not work for others.

[Bazsmum]

I was told last year by my vets who gave me Fortekor for my RIP Mitzi! Unfortunately the Fortekor had no effect as the failure was too advanced! 

I think it depends of the advancement of the CRF also....

Keep strong Rosie.....sending you my best wishes! 

Des....I trust your judgement 100% and I know that you will know when the moment arrives to say goodbye! 

[Mark]

Bear in mind that senior food is around 30% less phosphorus than regular and a lot more palatable than renal (as well as 1/2 the price). It has worked for Clapton. Another thing to consider is binders. Not only does the cat get to eat regular food but it's a lot cheaper. I'm not sure if binders are suitable for all cats - my vet didn't recommend it.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

From reading your posts Des I think Rosie is happy, its just that to her happy is being in the bathroom.

 Kocka had various things wrong with her including CRF and she was not medicated at all after a few months of injections cos it was far too stressful for her.

She had meds for high blood pressure cos they were very small and I could mix with her ad diet. Kocka on the recommendation of the vet was allowed to eat anything she wanted.

I think the decision that you will make when Rosie starts to have no quality of life, you will make as you always have, with dignity and for the love of  Rosie 

[Elaine]

Can I add my two penneth here please.  Firstly, and this is just a personal opinion, but to describe Rosey as having Stage 3 CRF isnt very helpful as most cats are diagnosed when around 75 - 90% of kidney damage is done.  That is not the fault of any owner but the cats survival mechanism to hide illness.
As for fortekor, there is some controversy about its use and again I am talking from personal experience, I feel Winston did benefit from its use.  He was, on the most part, a very good eater and I feel that the fortekor as well as the use of slippery elm bark and Pet tinic stood him on good ground.  Fortekor is made palatable and Winston used to eat it straight from my hand even on his sickly days.
As for the renal food, it should be gradually introduced just as any other change of food.  ~If she will eat the wet then wet is better as the dry will make the kidneys work harder and make hydration a little harder to maintain.
Do you have a copy of her blood results?  Is she vomiting at all?
My personal opinion is that treatment is better than no treatment, whether that treatment be renal diet, treating individual symptoms as well as trying to keep fluids up are all very worthwhile things to give a crf cat a good chance of life quality.

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

Off course we would always pay vet fees

I do not know for sure but i wonder if that may be an issue and should imagine it must be very difficult for fosterers if it is.

This had crossed my mind as well. 

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

I'm glad you are trying the renal food on her, hopefully it make her feel better in herself.  As far as advice goes, that's your decision at the end of the day but I would follow the advice off people with more hands on experience than someone who probably hasn't had to deal with situations like this on a day to day basis.  Whatever happens, I hope her quality of life improves and that includes her emotional state.

[CurlyCatz]

I don't know if what the vet said about fortekor is true or not, it was my understanding it can be started as soon as crf is picked up and will be of benefit.  However it was not used for this condition when i was last at work so i am not really in a postion give an opinion.

I've read through most of the posts on this and picked up on

Off course we would always pay vet fees

I do not know for sure but i wonder if that may be an issue and should imagine it must be very difficult for fosterers if it is.

Glad she's perhaps showing positive signs of feeling more secure and fingers crossed she eats the prescrip food.

[Maddiesmum]

Glad the vet visit went well and pleased that she ventured out a little even though she met Rolo the whirling dervish.  Hope she continues to do well Desley.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Spoke to the vet today, she has pushed me into trying Renal food, and given me 3 different kinds - she started to tuck into the Alutray food, but didn't even eat half of the quarter tray I put down before giving up, although tucked in when her favourite food was mixed in - she does have a sensitive tum though, so we might not get her on purely renal food. They are getting me some dry to try as well (she didn't eat that in her last home, but eats it well here). Vet doesn't recommend Fortekor though, she says it only works for cats that either have protein in their urine, or a low appetite - we haven't done a urine sample yet (slightly uncooperative there!!), and doesn't have a low appetite, so happy not to try that. She did agree with not rehoming her, so  i am going to go with the advice of people who have seen her and the test results.
WE have had a good half hour though, she was reluctant to stay outside, and was sniffing the front room when Rolo dashed about having a mad 10 mins, so she went on the stairs. I found some catnip drops, and finally found something that makes her act like she has some life in her - normally she has less energy than the nearly 18yo!! When I get chance, I will upload the pics.

[Bazsmum]

Des everyone knows that you will do the best by Rosie.  She is a lucky little girl to have you.

I agree 100% with Chrissie there!