dry food advice

[tigerbaby]

Thanks for that info CurlyCats. Interesting read, and good to know when trying to read (and understand) the ingredients lists!

[tigerbaby]

So I put a scoop of the PAH bisquits down... and BOY did he love it!! I've never seen him so enthustiatic about dry food before - within minutes I had a paw waving around at me begging for some more. I put another small amount in bowl and it all went. Good sign!

Glad Jameson approves of the food, I would love to see the 'paw waving around' - I've got some seriously cute visions of Jameson's little paw bobbing up and down now! 

Aww, it is cute when he does it - I usually am doing kitchen stuff while he is eating dinner and so whenever he wants something he'll stand up on his backlegs with his paws supporting himself against the bench trying to reach the worktops and all I can see is a little paw waving around wanting my attention.

Thank you for the advice re: PAH's own, it's gone down with a storm AND is affordable. 

[Desley (booktigger)]

Will just go to customer service and say i bought it, and see what they offer. I dont thik I need any JWB, I buy 5kg bags of that, as it goes down well here, but I don't have a lot of NM left.

[CurlyCatz]

I wouldnt get too worried about taurine nowadays (someone mentioned it a few posts ago), unlike us & other mammals cats cannot internally make enough taurine for healthy body functions. (it mainly is needed for fat/lipid absorption from the gut) without it  they will usually primarily develop dilated cardiomyopathy and then also it can cause progressive retina disease which leads to the blindness.  

However all good brands of feline foods will be fine to feed with acceptable taurine levels.  It may be listed as its correct name 2-aminoethanesulfonic acid, it is basically to most of us a non essential amino acid except in cats where it is essential.  I remember being told it was when cats were first taken on really as pets that they discovered their needs when it was common for them to be sick and die from lack of T,  as there is good levels of it in rodents brain which cats mainly lived on before they got in the houses and fed non natural prey foods. (this is quite possibly why its common for them to eat the whole head   a natural instinct maybe )

[Tiggy's Mum]

So I put a scoop of the PAH bisquits down... and BOY did he love it!! I've never seen him so enthustiatic about dry food before - within minutes I had a paw waving around at me begging for some more. I put another small amount in bowl and it all went. Good sign!

Glad Jameson approves of the food, I would love to see the 'paw waving around' - I've got some seriously cute visions of Jameson's little paw bobbing up and down now! 

[Tiggy's Mum]

If they ask then of course be honest about it being bought when the offer was on, if they don't ask that's down to them    I think someone else said JWB was on 3 for 2 so you could ask for an exchange rather than a refund and stock up on JWB.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Better not take the e-mail with me, I did say I had bought 2 bags in the offer to help the charity out!! The rescue wouldnt normally buy that amount of senior food though.

[Tiggy's Mum]

Thanks Helen, PAH have said they will either give me a full refund, or replace product - do I tell them the 2 bags were a BOGOF offer, or just that I thoght 8kg would be a good idea???

That's good, I can't rate their customer services highly enough  With regards having 8kg, don't you normally buy in bulk what with being a rescue?

[Desley (booktigger)]

Thanks Helen, PAH have said they will either give me a full refund, or replace product - do I tell them the 2 bags were a BOGOF offer, or just that I thoght 8kg would be a good idea???
MArk, not strictly true about Hepatic Lipidosis, it has a 70% survival rate, and doesn't always happen that quickly, it is normally 3 days or more, but in some cats, it can take a lot longer to happen.

[Mark]

This is funny though
http://www.kittyhell.com/

[tigerbaby]

Ohhh... I love Hello Kitty! 

[Mark]

  True - they really are tiny 

I found that hellokittyhell site by chance by searching the microscope image - it's quite good 

[tigerbaby]

 
...or they could make the samples bigger 

[Mark]

But you would need

[attachment deleted by admin]

[tigerbaby]

Yeah!
They really should put all the important info on their samples!!

[Mark]

The packs says "No artificial falvourings, colourings or preservatives"  - again probably not on your sample packs but there wouldn't be enough room 

Unlike go-cat, whiskas dry and PAH cuisine and supermarket own cheapo ones 

[tigerbaby]

Thanks Den. From what I've gathered the EC Additives in some cat food isn't neccesarily baddies, well at least not in the PAH food as they seem to be listed as EC Additives Vit E and C.

So I put a scoop of the PAH bisquits down... and BOY did he love it!! I've never seen him so enthustiatic about dry food before - within minutes I had a paw waving around at me begging for some more. I put another small amount in bowl and it all went. Good sign!

[Mark]

I am still not clear what EC Additive means, and if they are all the same ones (when put in cat food)? Because I'm reading on the PAH's dry food packets that it contains EC Additives but it says in brackets that they are Vitamin E and Vitamin C)

The E- stands for EC (European Community) and these numbers have been tested for safety and been passed for use in the EC. Numbers without an E in front are allowed in the UK but may have not been passed for use in all EC countries.

To regulate these additives, and inform consumers, each additive is assigned a unique number. Initially these were the "E numbers" used in Europe for all approved additives. This numbering scheme has now been adopted and extended to internationally identify all additives, regardless of whether they are approved for use.

E numbers are all prefixed by "E", but countries outside Europe use only the number, whether the additive is approved in Europe or not. For example, acetic acid is written as E260 on products sold in Europe, but is simply known as additive 260 in some countries. Additive 103, alkanet, is not approved for use in Europe so does not have an E number, although it is approved for use in Australia and New Zealand.

http://www.foodreactions.org/allergy/additives/

 It is compulsory to list antioxidants, colorants and preservatives using respectively the words "with antioxidant", "Colorant" or "colored with", "preservative" or "preserved with" followed by the specific name of the additive provided in the list of approved additives or, under certain conditions followed by "EC additives". It is also compulsory to label the presence of vitamins E, A and D and copper and their levels. Labeling of other trace elements and vitamins including their levels may be done, provided the levels can be determined by valid scientific methods of analysis. Labeling of other additives from the approved list such as aromatic and appetizing substances, emulsifiers, stabilizers, thickeners and gelling agents, acidity regulators is optional.

In case Copper, Selenium, vitamin A & D are added, the manufacturer/dealer has to be registered and the registration number has to be mentioned on the label.



All "technical proteins", such as yeasts need to be listed.

http://useu.usmission.gov/agri/petfood.html

I think most people, myself included think of E numbers as nasties but it's not necessarily the case. I know a lot of them are harmless.

[Mark]

Im going to leave the jwb down as if they are really hungry, surely they will eat it? I cant see them starving themselves.

That's not true. Cats can be really obstinate and if they don't want it, they won't eat it. It can be dangerous as depending on the cat, from as little as 24 hours cats can develop fatty liver disease which is fatal. That is worse case scenario but cats really won't eat something they don't like. There's a difference between them trying it on and refusing to eat

All I know is, every time I have bought JWB, the hedgehogs end up with it, even they aren't overly keen on is as there is always some left 
I have a big bag of JWB senior that is lined up for them 

[Den]

I am still not clear what EC Additive means, and if they are all the same ones (when put in cat food)? Because I'm reading on the PAH's dry food packets that it contains EC Additives but it says in brackets that they are Vitamin E and Vitamin C)

The E- stands for EC (European Community) and these numbers have been tested for safety and been passed for use in the EC. Numbers without an E in front are allowed in the UK but may have not been passed for use in all EC countries.

To regulate these additives, and inform consumers, each additive is assigned a unique number. Initially these were the "E numbers" used in Europe for all approved additives. This numbering scheme has now been adopted and extended to internationally identify all additives, regardless of whether they are approved for use.

E numbers are all prefixed by "E", but countries outside Europe use only the number, whether the additive is approved in Europe or not. For example, acetic acid is written as E260 on products sold in Europe, but is simply known as additive 260 in some countries. Additive 103, alkanet, is not approved for use in Europe so does not have an E number, although it is approved for use in Australia and New Zealand.

http://www.foodreactions.org/allergy/additives/

 It is compulsory to list antioxidants, colorants and preservatives using respectively the words "with antioxidant", "Colorant" or "colored with", "preservative" or "preserved with" followed by the specific name of the additive provided in the list of approved additives or, under certain conditions followed by "EC additives". It is also compulsory to label the presence of vitamins E, A and D and copper and their levels. Labeling of other trace elements and vitamins including their levels may be done, provided the levels can be determined by valid scientific methods of analysis. Labeling of other additives from the approved list such as aromatic and appetizing substances, emulsifiers, stabilizers, thickeners and gelling agents, acidity regulators is optional.

In case Copper, Selenium, vitamin A & D are added, the manufacturer/dealer has to be registered and the registration number has to be mentioned on the label.



All "technical proteins", such as yeasts need to be listed.

http://useu.usmission.gov/agri/petfood.html

[tigerbaby]

JWB Turkey and Rice is going down well, and I wanted to try Duck and Lamb too, but the only other kind they had in small bag was the Ocean Fish variety... not sure how well it will go down with Mr Jameson.

[zoe (tiggy + pipins mum)]

Mine eat JWB but I baught jwb lamb about a week and a half ago and its not going down too well,they will have to make do with it though until it all goes,their favourite flavours are turkey and rice and duck and rice

Im going to leave the jwb down as if they are really hungry, surely they will eat it? I cant see them starving themselves.
It would be nice for them to be able to eat a variety of foods and also its a bit cheaper than hills

[Gwen]

Mine eat JWB but I baught jwb lamb about a week and a half ago and its not going down too well,they will have to make do with it though until it all goes,their favourite flavours are turkey and rice and duck and rice

[tigerbaby]

I'm just changing my lot over to this, its slow but going better than the burns did - still no luck with the wet food though

Which ones have you tried?
I'm having great success with the Hi Life Essentials Chicken variety. Jameson didn't like the Tuna variety, but I know that a lot of others cats (incl Desleys) love the tuna ones.
Jameson is not a fussy eater in general, and will wolf down pretty much anything put infront of him, so to keep my costs down I alternate the food and give him the high meat content ones (Hi Life, Natures Menue and Feline Fayre) on some days, and the cheaper 4% meat Whiskas on other days.

I am still not clear what EC Additive means, and if they are all the same ones (when put in cat food)? Because I'm reading on the PAH's dry food packets that it contains EC Additives but it says in brackets that they are Vitamin E and Vitamin C)

[zoe (tiggy + pipins mum)]

At the moment mine are on hills science plan but after a few suggestions on here i thought i wold give JWB a try, I got 2 small bags yesterday from jolleys a turkey nd rice one and a lamb and rice one and neithier of them have gone down too well and it doesnt look like theyve eaten anything yet today  

[tigerbaby]

It's in the photo  - at the top 
Depending on how it's processed, they may or may not need to add it.

D'OH! I'm blind! Oops! 

[Dawn F]

I'm just changing my lot over to this, its slow but going better than the burns did - still no luck with the wet food though

[Mark]

It's in the photo  - at the top 

Depending on how it's processed, they may or may not need to add it.

[tigerbaby]

They do put it in Red Bull indeed...

I see, JWB contains Taurine, whereas it doesn't say on the PAH ingredients list. (not on my sample packs anyway)

[Den]

I think they put it in Red Bull as well?

They put it in all energy drinks. I've just had a drink with 0.4% taurine.

Does anyone know who makes P@H own brand? Apparently Burgess makes P@H brand rabbit food so I was just wondering if another big brand made P@H and put the P@H name on it.

[Mark]

Not a lot but it is something that occurs naturally in meat but is destroyed with processing so they need to add it. It is needed for good vision and for the heart. Allegedly, one of the food manufacturers that we don't talk about on purrs conducted experiments by giving different cats varying amounts of taurine in their diet and seeing which ones went blind  - no doubt to see how little they could get away with putting in it 

I think they put it in Red Bull as well?

[tigerbaby]

I see, thanks Mark. On the samples it doesn't say!

Do you know what the deal is with Taurine?

[Mark]

Didn't come out very well but it's here

[attachment deleted by admin]

[tigerbaby]

PAH does have Prebiotic and omega 3 & 6, the gluten is Maize gluten. I have found that my cats will eat it whereas JWB is ignored. I think PAH own smells meaty like Hills but JWB & RC don't smell much.

I think Helen's boys are a good advert for PAH (not the cuisine one) food.

I wouldn't go mad buying loads as  I bet the bank holiday at the end of May, they will have the BOGOF offer on again - 2 x 4kg bags for £14 or 2 x 2kg bags for £7.99

Where does it say about Omega 3 & 6? It doesn't say on my sample packets (Adult Complete Chicken).
Will be interesting to try out - and you're probably right Mark, I might aswell wait til their next BOGOF offer, Ive got more than enough.

[Mark]

PAH does have Prebiotic and omega 3 & 6, the gluten is Maize gluten. I have found that my cats will eat it whereas JWB is ignored. I think PAH own smells meaty like Hills but JWB & RC don't smell much.

I think Helen's boys are a good advert for PAH (not the cuisine one) food.

I wouldn't go mad buying loads as  I bet the bank holiday at the end of May, they will have the BOGOF offer on again - 2 x 4kg bags for £14 or 2 x 2kg bags for £7.99

[tigerbaby]

So I went to PAH today to check out their cat food section... I spent ages comparing their own brand with JWB, and found out that they're pretty much exactly the same, they are both wheat and gluten free, with high meat content and cranberry extracts. However the PAH's own is advertised as Pre Biotic but doesn't seem to contain Omega Oils or Taurine, whereas JWB is hypo-allergenic, and contains Omega 3 and Zinc.

PAH's own has sodium chloride listed as an ingrediens - is this salt? If not, what is it? It also has Gluten Meal listed, which is confusing as it is advertised as Wheat Gluten free.

They both have pretty much the same ingredients apart from that (meat, rice, maize, meat meal, yukka, rosemary etc).

PAH's own is on offer, 2 x 2kg for £12. That is £3 per kilo.
JWB on offer, 3 for the price of 2 (£11 something per 2 kg bag) = 6kg for around £23 = around £3.80 per kilo.

I am under the impression JWB is slightly better quality-wise, and for a good offer like the one above I'm leaning slightly towards that deal. The helpful staff gave me 2 free sample portions of PAH's own to try out first. The offers are until 8th of May, so got plently of time.
They told me JWB are made by Hills (or was it Royal Canin? One of those 2! I didn't know that...)

I also bought a ceramic big dog bowl for Jameson (that he turned his nose up at... ) But I'm being patient and will keep it outside in the garden. Sometimes pigs DO fly.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Thanks, e-mail sent. Fingers crossed - even if they only replace it with vouchers, it is better than nothing

[tigerbaby]

On my way to PAH today - managed to convince partner to drop me off while he is going to B&Qs (ugh!!).
Anyone knows if they are currently doing deals on the dry food, PAH's own I should look for, or is it just called Pets At Home? I need one similar to JWB with high meat content and cranberry extract etc. Thanks.

[Tiggy's Mum]

Try emailing Des, I complained via email when they ended an offer early despite having lots of stock (PAH dry of course  ) and they sent me £15 in vouchers!  If you say you're from a rescue and could they give you the authority to return them under the guarantee despite buying it so long ago.  I'm sure they'll say yes then you can just take it back with no funny looks or arguments!

customerservice@petsathome.co.uk

[Desley (booktigger)]

i might give them a ring - there isn't that much missing from teh open bag, but it has been open since OCt!! I have the opposite Mark, mine love JWB and RC, although the PAH light food I bought by accident went down well.