I need some serious advice please peeps

[Maddiesmum]

Day five of Charlie's indoor life.  I think he is a bit depressed!  He has played with Da Mouse twice and had a look at some new toys but not impressed!  Had a furtle round when the hairdresser came but is sleeping more than usual.  Has not tried to get out today.  I made him some toys with string and paper and pipe cleaners which he just sniffed at and walked away.  I think he is addicted to Da Mouse as it is the only toy he is interested in and he adores it.

Why do I feel such a mean mummy????

[koscha (Ruth M)]

All those interested in catproofing thier garden see the 'Catproofing my garden' topic in general cat chat as there's some piccies there now!

For details PM Roz.

[lucky and jj mum]

Hi ya, By reading the posts I take it Charlie has been going across the road again. Can understand you wanting to keep him in, I would too. Think we think they missing the outdoors so much because we feel guilty about not letting them out, rather feel guilty and know he is safe.
You have to let me know all your plans for your garden. I'm sure your doing your best for him, knowing you, you wouldn't do anything else but your best. So try and not get yourself too stressed out.
Thanks for pointing me this way, still finding my way around.

[Maddiesmum]

I ordered one yesterday but he hates dry food though he does enjoy Tesco combination treats so will try those.

[Angiew]

have you got one of thise hollow balls you can put his favourite biscuit in?

[Maddiesmum]

So far this morning has been a nightmare.  He is so restless.  He has a short attention span and soon gets tired of any toys/games unless it is Da Mouse (used to be Da BIrd).  I have just been preparing dinner and that has been difficult as he got into the corner unit and was difficult to get out (I needed to close it because of room in the kitchen) then kept jumping up when I was chopping ingredients amd was browining stuff on the job.

 To top it my new window cleaner came and I have had to go in and out opening gates and paying him etc which has been difficult for Charlie to cope with as he got a glimpse of the great outdoors.  I am off shopping in a mo and going to buy some bits (string etc) to make some new toys.

 I know what you mean about the dependency Tan but he has never (at least since I have had him) played on his own.  I have bought him a cheese chase which he was interested in for about 10 mins, a panic mouse which he looks at with disdain and occasionally biffs  with a disgusted expression on his face.  He has his boxes, ping pong balls around the house and in the bath, his climbing tree with toys on it, rolled up paper balls, tin foil balls, catnip toys his water fountain, a dripping tap. 

We have played up and down the stairs with a feather waggly and all round with his Da Mouse.  He has charged up and down stairs himself.  I think the pull of the great outdoors is big especially as the sun is shining.

He usually settles down about 3/4pm so I am hoping we can stay entertained until then.

I am shattered and it as stressful almost keeping him in today as it was letting him out except that I know for sure he is safe.

Will keep you posted.

[Bazsmum]

I think the hardest part for us is the guilt feeling.

You have hit the nail on the head there Tan.....we always associate other's (including our furbabes) to have the same feelings as us, we put ourselves in their situation and try to do what we think will help.....

[Tan]

I think the hardest part for us is the guilt feeling. I still feel so guilty about my lads now but they seem happy enough in garden/house only but thry don't know any different from Litteuns.  They do still get bored at times even though i play with them 3 times a day/night and for about an hour each time on most days.
One thing i always have in the back of my mind is also that if we play with them too much and give them alot of attention, they become dependant on you and only play when you do.  Rio became very dependatnt on me for attention when Ochi his bro was taken and continued to be after he and Gizzy finally got on with each other. 

I do try now to make Garf and Marl play with each other as much as poss so i will start the games and runing about  then let them play themselves.

What i have noticed is that if i am about (which is alot) they act as if they are waiting for me to do something with them and if i ignore them they get on with it themselves. I used to see them doing this waitng about and think ooo they are bored and moping like Gizzy and Rio used to do so i get up and play.  I found the more i do this the more they do this waiting about to play!!

I think there is a fine line where ya need to make sure the cats have their own fun entertainment without you so they don't become dependant and also fun play with you.

It's the games that they can play on their own that is hard to find. My two don't seem interested unless it is moving fast games! 

Last night had a fly in the lounge and that kept them busy for ages 

Roll on the better weather when the moths come out to play! 

[Maddiesmum]

Think the hard times might have started.  He is very restless today.  He keeps running to the back door and sniffing the air vent.  He is bored with his toys and games and just sort of prowling.  I am going to have to try to sit it out as he has done so well.  I can't think of anything more I can do to stimulate and distract him.  He is just sitting now staring at the window.  He is tugging at my heart but I know better than he does (I think) about his safety etc.  Hopefully once we have the catproofing the garden will seem like bliss to him after being confined in the house and the cattery.  Hope so.  Poor little fella I do feel for him though his life has changed dramaticallly this week and he is doing his best to cope.

[Bazsmum]

Oops sorry thought it was the 12th for some reason! 

I think we also have to remember that an average adult cat sleeps for 16 hrs a day so I do reckon they must sleep when they go out! Charley is being fantastic about this whole situation me thinks....you should actually be going through the hard times keeping him in so he is being fab! 

That with the added bonus of another cat when the catproofing system is erected....he's gonna suprise you Im sure! 

[Maddiesmum]

I go away on Tuesday 15th Baz's mum and Charlie goes into the cattery on Monday!  He isn't being difficult or anything just wants to use up his energy and a little wistful.  I don't mind the extra playtimes though I owe him that.

[Bazsmum]

Only two more days till you go away and Charlie goes in the cattery.....hang in there it will be worth it......

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Hmmmmmmm I think Tan will recognize this 

[Maddiesmum]

Day 3 of indoor life.  We played lots (I am worn out with swinging da mouse etc) but Charlie did get a bit bored.  He didn't try to get out or even cry by the doors but he was wistfully looking out of the window this evening.  He is eating less which isn't a bad thing!  Have read up on stimulating games and am trying all sorts, becoming quite inventive really I think.  Will keep you posted.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Charlie is such a happy little man and so pleased that he is doing well 

[Bazsmum]

That's fantastic news Maddiesmum! 

When I first joined CatChat before Purrs the reason I joined was cos my Baz was lost and I got excellent advice from Sam which led to his return....

I made up my mind that from then on my cats were to be indoor/outdoor cat proof gardened! For about a month I perservered (SP?) with the wailing at the door etc....but I dug my heels in cos I knew it could happen again! (He was found in a lock up where he had lived on spider's and dew drops for 13 days)

He calmed down and came round to the idea....I know my cats and they are as daft as myself therefore I would not trust them to be good on there own outside....Baz actually goes for dogs! 

So glad for you that he is still happy being indoors....good practice for the cattery as it wont be that much of a shock to him! 

[Maddiesmum]

Thanks all for your advice and patience.  Charlie has spent his second day as an indoor cat and been mostly fine.  He tried to get out the front door on two occasions when someone called at the house but otherwise has had a wonderful day playing and careering round the house.  He is currently spark out on the landing.

I had a long chat with Roz last night re the cat proofing and it looks like this will happen once I return from holiday.  So fingers crossed he doesn't get too stressed in the cattery whilst I am away and that he adapts to all the changes in his little life.

Went out and bought him more toys today from PAH and have ordered some more stuff from Purrs to keep him stimulated.  He has gone off Da Bird in favour of Da Mouse.

Thanks again, will keep you posted on his progress.

[Tan]

Hi Hun

Na ya def not nuts. I was the same trying to keep Rio and Gizzy in. To see them so depressed was making it worse for me as that way they were unhappy and so was i seeing them like it.  The other way letting them out again at least they were happy even though i was not happy being worried for their safety.
Cats are very very habit forming and they do get used to the routine and take comfort from a simular daily routine. He will wonder why the same routine isn't happening and will be restless.  I tried for about 7 weeks to keep Gizzy and Rio in and every time i saw they were upset i distracted them with playing.  It worked for so long then they started to mope about and sleep much more than they should. Once i saw their personalites change, i had no choice in my eyes to let them be happy and have the outside freedom they knew.  The change in them was instant as soon as i let them out again, back to their normall happy selves.

It's so hard this it really is.

[Millys Mum]

I would cat proof, the road really doesnt sound good. Its the problem with these young lads, they go looking for trouble 

I think unless a cat is 100% indoors from being a kitten its hard to change them without making them very miserable and from all you have said about Charlie I dont think he would be happy not to roam.

There are kittens who dont adapt to indoor life and get very depressed and those that have had lots of outdoor time and have easily changed to indoor cats. It all depends on the character, you dont know until you try!

Rehoming has to be a last resort so better to try catproofing and hope he likes it. If not then a cat with a more suitable character would love a secure pad.

If you decide to DIY it then zooplus sell garden netting (probably cheaper than b&q) and a local metal place would do the brackets. When the old people next door downgrade this is what il be doing as no doubt they will be replaced bya hoard of chavvy kids plus evil dog 

[Maddiesmum]

I have pm'd her.  Poor Charlie has been in all day.  He has been very despondent and restless.  Had two long and active games with Da Mouse but still gone to the front and back doors to try and convince me to let him out.    He looks so sad.  I really don't know if I should just let him out tomorrow.  I don't want him to be stressed and unhappy, at least I know why I am anxious, he doesn't.  I feel so indecisive and am feeling anxious just at the thought that I might relent.  Thanks for your patience you must think I am nuts!

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

you can pm her and her purrs name is roz

[Dawn F]

she has posted on the bunglycats new baby thread under rescue and rehoming if that helps

[Maddiesmum]

How can I contact Roz please?

[Dawn F]

we cat proofed after loosing Algie on the road, we had seen him at the front of the house but never near the road and just hoped he would be ok, not cat proofing before is something I do regret.  My other cats have adapted to only using the garden and we are relaxed, if it is an option I would definately say do it, Roz does a full installation service

[Maddiesmum]

It is a nightmare Baz's mum.  Although I previously had three cats, Guinness, Madison and Dragan I didn't really have a problem with the road.  Guinness and Maddie moved with me from my previous house.  There the garden was completely enclosed by a very tall wall and none of them ever tried to get out.  When we moved here the most they would do is go into my two adjoining neighbour's gardens.  Dragan came to us when we were at this house and he did get hit on the road on his first birthday.  Luckily he wasn't badly injured, needed some stitches in his side, had a swollen eyelid and a tiny chunk out of his ear.  He NEVER set foot on that road again and, in fact, when I was on the other side of it with Pat my neighbour (her cat had just been killed on the road) he sat patiently waiting for me to come back across.

Charlie is a different kettle of fish.  I suppose when he was straying he just went where he pleased and crossed the road numerous times that we were unaware of.  The field is very enticing for cats and as I said previously, at least 5 of the neighbours cats have been killed there plus at least one unknown to us cat.

So I am going to try to keep Charlie indoors today and see how he copes with it.  We have already had a long play session and he is snoozing.  I am going on holiday on 15th April to 30th so will have to put cat proofing on hold.  However I need to find someone who installs it.  I could never in a million years attempt it myself. 

I am still feeling anxious but if he copes for a while indoors and I can cat proof at least I can make the garden an interesting place for him to play and he can come and go via the cat flap safely.

He is having to go in a cattery whilst I am away unfortunately so that might help him  to adjust to confinement as he will obviously have much more freedom around the house than in the cattery.

Fingers crossed and please keep the advice coming it is more than welcome.  to all of you who have taken the time to help and not made me feel like a big wuss!!  I do feel mean restricting him though I have to say.

[Bazsmum]

Oh Maddiesmum....what a nightmare this must be for you....cant add to what people have said...I just think that when anxiety is an issue unless the issue is unrealistic then yes look into that side....but yours is a real fear that can happen....Keep sane hun I have my back garden catproofed and have 7 cats that use it and they are happy as Larry.....plus Charlie would have a new friend also! 

[bunglycat]

I have posted on another thread-as i want to take another cat and want to cat proof my garden although only one goes out of it and thats because i open the gate for him !
Its very safe here , and the cats are all 10+ -but would like it done as the person next door is moving soon and anyone could move in !
I am trying to do it the cheapest way -as not got a lot of money -but getting a bit confused too and i only have myself and my brother ( although he is helpful -he is not the worlds best diy !) to put it up .
So, i made a thread and trying to sort out what to do for the best -now i am just confused !

[barney]

Barney how are you going to cat proof it?  I am interested in doing this and if I did then I would consider taking on another cat so that Charlie would have a friend and they could both be safe in the garden. I have no idea where to start with this.  I am really struggling with this one and am grateful for the advice given so far.  Would still be grateful for more though.  I am feeling really stressed and anxious about it almost to the point of being tearful.  Feel stupid but there you go.

I think it probably is something to do with losing Dragan although he died aged 17 and not from the road.

For me cat proofing came about by chance, after losing my Teejay through my own stupidity last November. Within days I found myself on catchat, then somehow ended up on this site. Around Christmas time there was an auction on here for a catproof fence. My immediate thoughts were if only I had done that I would still have my Teejay, but being so new on here at the time I never bothered to bid as I did not want to get in the way of the old timers on here who had already submitted bids
So over Christmas I spent trawling the net for cat proofing ideas. I found them to range from spikes, electric shock treatment, mesh fencing and revolving poles. I went for the poles the reasoning behind this was because I wanted it to blend in with the rest of the garden as much as possible. Although I was nearly tempted by the electric shock method lol, no not really that and the spikes were definitely both a big no. I telephoned the majority of people who had links to this companies website and who had the product fitted, asking them if they ever had any problems with it or lost one of their animals and they all said no.
The product is not cheap, it's costing me £2500 which is a lot of money, this also includes the installation. My neighbours and friends think I am stark raving mad, 'cos their only cats' well if it prevents one of my other cats getting into mischief or hurt it's money well spent. It will never bring back my Teejay and it has been an extremely emotional lesson to learn.

[Gillian Harvey]

I would never have dreamt of confining any cat to either the garden or indoors up till about 10 yrs ago, when I lost too many beloved cats to RTAs. I seriously thought about not having cats at all because I couldnt bear the thought of losing anymore, but equally I couldnt bear the thought of not having a cat (or two LOL! ) around. So I decided firstly on a large cat run, which all but one (Harry) adapted too. Although it was large, full of plants, grassy areas, trees, shrubs, hidey holes, high shelves - I was never completely comfortable with confining them.

Then I moved to where I am now, the cat run came too and was re-assembled, but over the years, because I have quite a large garden, bordered by other gardens in a small cul-de-sac, away from any main roads, I gradually started letting them out into the garden, while I was out there, and started to feel more comfortable about letting them have more freedom, whilst still having the security of the cat run, when I wasnt around or at night time. Now, I have a couple of areas that are cat-proofed fenced which they can have access to at any time and which I can close off from the main garden at night time, the rest of the time they have access to the whole garden, which is where they stay (apart from Harry and he goes out whenever/wherever he wants LOL!) It is a lovely feeling now to know they are secure, but that they also have that freedom of the garden when I'm around - and really, they want to be where I am, so if I'm out in the garden, they are there with me.

If I were you I'd probably try cat proofing the garden for him first - if he adapted to that idea and seemed happy that would be brilliant wouldnt it?

[Tan]

What ya feeling hun is normal feelings with the fear of loosing charlie after you have lost a pet.   

With my 1st three babes many years ago, i lost two to illness and one went missing and i never knew what happened to him. This was before chips were available.  Arnie who went missing, i serched everywhere i could, did everything i could to find him but time went on and i still don't know what happend to him.  I lived in a busy town and not one of my three back then i lost to the road and they were with me many years.

Even though i had lost 3 lads before, when i lost Ochi 3 years ago to the road here, he was only 18 mths old and it being my 1st experience of an rta it shocked me sooo much to loose him so quickly and so suddenly.  After, i got more and more worried about loosing Rio and Gizmo.  Something triggered in me that made me worry and i have ever since.  Loosing Ochi also taught me that life is sooo very prescious. I dont know why Ochi had that effect on me and not my 3 wonderful lads before but maybe it was because he was soo young and it was soo sudden and final.

The worry and the stress can start to take over as Sharon says and i got through this by doing the cat fencing ie something positive to try and solve the worry.

Have a word with Roz and she what she suggests about cat proofing.  I actually put all the cat proof fencing in the neigbours garden and all in our garden on my own and it was quite easy to do.  I planned it out and knew exactly what i would need and read all i could on the internet about doing it. Even the planning helped me with the stress level.

 

[Maddiesmum]

Barney how are you going to cat proof it?  I am interested in doing this and if I did then I would consider taking on another cat so that Charlie would have a friend and they could both be safe in the garden. I have no idea where to start with this.  I am really struggling with this one and am grateful for the advice given so far.  Would still be grateful for more though.  I am feeling really stressed and anxious about it almost to the point of being tearful.  Feel stupid but there you go.

I think it probably is something to do with losing Dragan although he died aged 17 and not from the road.

[barney]

I have a dilemma and would really welcome your advice.  As you know Charlie adopted me some 10 weeks ago and has his claws firmly planted in my ankles!  Perhaps you will recall that I expressed worry because he had discovered the delights of the big field nearby which, unfortunately, is across a busy road.

I am finding that everytime he is out I am suffering anxiety attacks (I used to have them but haven't for a few years) due to the fact that I am worried he will get knocked down.  I should point out that five neighbourhood cats plus one we didn't know have been killed on that road.

It is getting to a serious level with me now - I suppose some of you will think I am over reacting or being a wuss or whatever but it is real fear for me.

So being as he loves the outdoors and maybe stressed if I keep him in what should I do?

Should I try to turn him into a housecat

Should I look for another safer home for him

Should I just suffer the anxiety

I don't want to rehome him at all but am thinking of his safety and wellbeing before what I want.

Your thoughts on it would really help me.

Cheers
Chrissie

At the moment I can relate to this 100%, since November the 30th every day since I have worried about where my cats are if they are not in the house. I did consider confining them all to being indoors, but after careful consideration thought it to be completely unfair to them. They have within reason been able to come and go as they please although now the cat flap is locked at certain times so once they are back in, that is where they will stay. Although Bigears sometimes wanders back in without a care in the world at 1am after being let out at 5pm, with me pulling my hair out. So we are going to comprimise this coming week (not that they know yet) as the garden will be cat proofed, but at least they will be able to come and go as they please. And I will be able to go to work and not worry to much. My only concern with doing this is other animals getting in and not being able to get out again. But time will tell..

[Canterbury_cats (Sharon)]

In Leo my siamese earlier years we saw him cross the Canterbury rd which is a 40 mile limit rd but is straigh and no body goes down it slowly its always busy.. Although i have 22 acres of woodland to my left and a small wood to my right he wondered up and down the main rd and i even found him in the big open field opposite i had kittens and worried and worried so much it become unbelievable hard to concentrate and do any work.. I discourged him from going any where near the main entrance (throwing water at him, shouting loudly etc, etc)!and also make sure everybody else knew he wasnt going to go that way, but in the end it wasnt a car that broke his leg and pelvis around 6 years back but someone with a bat who hit him...!

He is now much older and wordly wise and i worry a little less about him, he goes out and catches rabbits and does end up nr the margins of the wood but seems to have a fear of cars and has become much more anxious of cars..

He is never let out deliberately late at night...

I tried to keep him in for a few weeks after i found him opp side of the road, but his sister went out and he was very, very unhappy.. I love him to bits but seeing him so unhappy was sad and in the end i just decided to let things take there place. I love  him dearly and would do all that i can to make sure he is safe and his quality of life is good.

Its a difficult one but in time when they get abit older i am sure his wondering ways will decrease and the worry you have will be less.

Not an answer but i have been their and done it..

My brothers cat a burmese that went too near the road last year ended up with a broken pelvis now has a tracker device on him. But sometimes we worry ourslelves sick about him. A while ago he went missing for a 1/2 day and the tracker system failed to work for a time, in the end he turned up asleep in the bedroom under the covers... The covers hiding the signal to find him!! We laugh about it but it caused such anxiety about where he was it was unbelievable.

In rescue work anyone who rings me up living next to a busy road who wants a young cat or kitten is advised against it and instead i always suggest an older cat less likely to wonder far and abit more street wise...

[CurlyCatz]

well for one he's found the perfect loving caring home so why look for another, you need to change his behaviours by way of keeping him enclosed via secured garden or some type of run.  Even if this made him only 90% happy with his life surely 90% is better than no life at all !

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

This is very difficult and I have a busy road at front too and my Misa and Sasa dont go there but saw Sasa across the road one night and I was terrified and Misa was watching from the top of a very high wall.  It has taken ages for my worry to drift backwards and think it was a one off cos she was scared.

If I was able, which I am not, I would love to cat proof the garden but then like Tan I would feel guilty of depriving them from getting into the field at the bottom and I dont think either would be happy.

I think unless a cat is 100% indoors from being a kitten its hard to change them without making them very miserable and from all you have said about Charlie I dont think he would be happy not to roam.

So it thens comes down to a decision in your head as to what you think is most right for Charlie and his happiness and whether like Tan and Angie you can allow him to be happy despite the risks, or whther you have to take some other action.

I think its a decision that many have to come to terms with and while I was in London I never even thought about it, cos my cat in her younger years, around 10-14 would roam the back gardens and had rushed out of the house at least once, walked around the block and come back tapping on the kitchen window despite  having a cat flap.

Its only coming to Cat Chat and this forum that the dangers have seemed more and of course I moved somewhere where I thouight it was less dangerous but the reverse seems to be the case.

Its a very hard decision to make but only you can make it for Charlie and you, what ever you decise his happiness must come at the top of the list.

[Tan]

HI Hun

No def not OTT. I had the same prob with fields across a road which should be 30mph in a semi rural area with random traffic but sometimes they speed down there and in last three years 3 of my lads have been taken    With two of my lads, i tried to keep them in with cat proof fencing but as they were used to going out they both became depressed and changed so much, i couldn't carry on seeing them in that way so let them out again. I prayed to keep them safe but two years  later the road took my other two lads within 2 months of each other. 
For me it has been a worry to let them out as they were very happy but risked the road and a worry to keep them in as i was happy for their safety but seeing them so miserable was awful.  I realised that either way i was going to worry but if i let them out, they would be happy and with all the other cats around here maybe they would be road aware.

I don't regret the very difficult decision to let them out after trying to keep them in safely  as they were very happy cats. I do so understand how you are feeling cause it's one of the hardest things to decide on esp if the cats are so unhappy with being inside/ garden only and used to having their freedom.

Even now i have alot of guilt with Marl and Garfy that they haven't got their freedom, i know they would love. Thankfully they know no different as they have never been out of the house and garden but they do get bored and sleep more than young cats should. So unless we move to a safer area, i will always worry (again) that i am not giving them the best life they deserve.

It can only be a decision you can make and it is such a hard one. 
How about if you can cat proof the garden and trying to see if Charlie is content with just that?

[blackcat]

that would be Roz, she has been on today

[Maddiesmum]

I am thinking about cat proofing Angie but am not sure my garden would be suitable.  Isn't there someone on here who does cat proofing?>

[Maddiesmum]

That could well be the case Blackcat but I really need to concentrate on keeping Charlie safe.  It is a very busy and dangerous road where people sometimes travel in excess of 70mph although it has a 30mph speed limit.  It is long and straight with no traffic lights, junctions, calming devices and people drive like maniacs.

[blackcat]

I know it is a bit OTT

It's not OTT, it is just that there is clearly a deeper issue here. You love Charlie, and he came to you to replace your rainbow bridge babe. you are terrified of losing him, as you demosntrated when you had your issue with your neighbour ... I suspect it is just bringing earlier tensions to the surface and turning your concern for Charlie into something bigger ...