Topic: Liver Disease (Read 14360 times)

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #40 on:** April 05, 2008, 08:30:08 AM »

Aww, fingers crossed for next week - I made the same mistake with one of Snowy's tests!!

Maddiesmum · « **Reply #39 on:** April 05, 2008, 07:34:43 AM »

Poor Sam, I can't offer any advice but am sending you both a

Cheetsey · « **Reply #38 on:** April 04, 2008, 19:57:01 PM »

Well, here's me dumping my woes again..... we messed up, Sam was due back at the vets on Thursday but we left his food out and I needed to starve him 8 hours before his tests and then they couldn't fit him in today so they have just given him more tablets until Monday. He's a lot less yellow, his coat is shinier but he is very thin and has been sick a few times this week. So still the limbo, one minute I think its okay, the next I don't and now its another weekend to wait. He's so brave though, I just want him to give me a sign so I can do the right thing by him, as ridiculous as that sounds... he still wakes us up at 6.40am for a cuddle and some breakfast, but it breaks my heart he's so thin. Its a waiting game still

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #37 on:** March 28, 2008, 19:34:52 PM »

I would be demanding something to be honest. Snowy ended up at the vets due to sickness 5 months after I got her, she had raised liver enzymes which the vets didn't seem to really say much about - this was before I had the internet, so couldnt do the research. She hated prescription food, and I used tuna and cat milk to help build her up, with prescription food when she was having an off day. That was in JAn, and at the end of November, she was having a really bad week, so I took her back to the vets (she had had 2 other blood tests throughout the year) where she was diagnosed with cholangiohepatitis, which can be treatable in cats. Sadly, Snowy decided to refuse taking meds, hide from me and stop purring, so I opted not to put her through anything, hence being told there was nothing more they could do, and it was up to me when to let her go. On New Years Eve, I took her for sub-q fluids, and a different vet told me she wouldnt be suffering, but would feel like she had the hangover from hell - I then went out drinking and got a major hangover, and then made the decision, I couldnt put her through that. BUT, there is at least one cat on here who has survived cholangiohepatitis, so even if that is the diagnosis, it can be treated, and the liver can regenerate. Snowy was around 14.

Cheetsey · « **Reply #36 on:** March 28, 2008, 19:26:04 PM »

Quote from: Desley (booktigger) on March 28, 2008, 19:15:24 PM

A/D is one of the nicer ones, KD is a lot worse!! Could you not just ask the vet outright? I know the feeling, I had 2 weeks between being told there was nothing more they could do for Snowy, my cat with liver issues, and making that decision, I didn't get one good nights sleep cos of worrying over what to do.

I have asked them, but they are sitting on the fence until next week if the blood tests aren't any better. What happened with Snowy then?

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #35 on:** March 28, 2008, 19:15:24 PM »

A/D is one of the nicer ones, KD is a lot worse!! Could you not just ask the vet outright? I know the feeling, I had 2 weeks between being told there was nothing more they could do for Snowy, my cat with liver issues, and making that decision, I didn't get one good nights sleep cos of worrying over what to do.

Cheetsey · « **Reply #34 on:** March 28, 2008, 19:13:18 PM »

Quote from: Desley (booktigger) on March 28, 2008, 19:07:30 PM

I have only ever had one cat turn it down, but he did enjoy it a bit more heated up - you can either pop it in the microwave for 30 secs, or add hot water to it, and mix it up well (the extra water will do him good, and it is the least smelly of the two options!!). My cat with liver issues would only eat k/d when she had a bad day.

I've just said to my husband, I don't blame him though it looks like Chappie! I wish the vet would have indicated whcih one they thought it was, its exhausting crying your eyes out for two weeks

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #33 on:** March 28, 2008, 19:07:30 PM »

I have only ever had one cat turn it down, but he did enjoy it a bit more heated up - you can either pop it in the microwave for 30 secs, or add hot water to it, and mix it up well (the extra water will do him good, and it is the least smelly of the two options!!). My cat with liver issues would only eat k/d when she had a bad day.

Cheetsey · « **Reply #32 on:** March 28, 2008, 19:03:32 PM »

Quote from: Desley (booktigger) on March 28, 2008, 18:58:47 PM

Cheetsy, there are quite a few kinds of liver disease, and not all kicked off by not eating, the main one is Hepatic Lipidosis, but others have different reasons for occuring. My cat lived with raised liver enzymes for at least 10 months before it went into anything more serious. You could ask your vet about Hills A/d, it is a convalescent food and is used for HEpatic Lipidosis - also, unlike most prescription foods, it is liked by most cats.

Thanks for this, he Hills food is the one he is turning his nose up at as I type!

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #31 on:** March 28, 2008, 18:58:47 PM »

Cheetsy, there are quite a few kinds of liver disease, and not all kicked off by not eating, the main one is Hepatic Lipidosis, but others have different reasons for occuring. My cat lived with raised liver enzymes for at least 10 months before it went into anything more serious. You could ask your vet about Hills A/d, it is a convalescent food and is used for HEpatic Lipidosis - also, unlike most prescription foods, it is liked by most cats.

Cheetsey · « **Reply #30 on:** March 28, 2008, 12:27:23 PM »

I'm still a bit puzzled about it all really.....his coat is shinier, he wouldn't let me put his food down this morning without shoving his nose in to wolf it down, but he is still so thin, and all the stuff I've read on the internet, liver disease usually kicks off when they won't eat but he still is doing this? ...I just wish he'd put some weight on. H'e s been sick a couple of times, but not very much and he is still lively, but obviously sulking when we try to give him his tablets as we don't seem to have mastered the art of doing it quickly yet....is it worth giving him some type of food to help him put weight on?

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #29 on:** March 28, 2008, 11:08:25 AM »

that's good news! I *think* Hepatosyl's the same stuff basically as Zentonil. I found that giving it helped with appetite. Certainly good stuff and can be given for ever apparently. Suppose the only way you can tell if his liver's recovering is more blood tests for Sam.

Maddiesmum · « **Reply #28 on:** March 27, 2008, 21:31:18 PM »

Hope things are ok and best of luck

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #27 on:** March 27, 2008, 11:48:59 AM »

Glad to hear he seems to be doing OK, good luck for next week

Cheetsey · « **Reply #26 on:** March 26, 2008, 22:28:58 PM »

Hi Guys

Just thought I'd give you an update after all your kind words

We came back from holiday yesterday and Sam came back from the cattery, he seems so much better though we are not too sure whether or not he is just relieved to be home! It was great yesterday though, he was really animated again and this morning he woke us up at 7am as usual for his breakfast...

Maybe the tablets are doing their job? His coat his still a bit spikey though and he is thin, however he had a considerable amount of prawns tonight, so many that I had to put them away because I dont think around 30 in succession would be that good for him....also they are supposed to be a treat to hide his tablets in...

I think I may have got it wrong about the tumour reference as tonight she said it would take more than Hepatosyl to make him better if that were the case and strangely my husband mentioned that he had no idea why I thought she inferred he might have one....

We are still waiting to see what happens really, we've got another weeks worth of tablets and then will have some more blood samples taken next week...

Maddiesmum · « **Reply #25 on:** March 18, 2008, 20:39:53 PM »

Big hugs for you both

sheryl · « **Reply #24 on:** March 18, 2008, 18:24:39 PM »

Sending Sam lots of positive vibes and hugs for you, I know what you are going through.

Cheetsey · « **Reply #23 on:** March 18, 2008, 17:34:11 PM »

Well we have to see what happens this week on antibiotics before they take a new set of blood samples next week......the vet seemed to be going more towards a growth/tumour yesterday I thought; when I mentioned that I thought he may have been ill for some time, ie seemed a bit thin for few months she said that was a bad sign, but then mentioned he was purring when she felt his liver which was a good sign...then mentioned that we should talk about what happens if his liver fails while we are away in the week - thats what I meant about the rollercoaster. My husband is now putting the tablets down his throat so that he at least will eat his food, which as mentioned before, he still is

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #22 on:** March 18, 2008, 12:59:05 PM »

Forgot to say, as well as the Destolit (which as I say, I swear by), Swampy also still takes Zentonil supplements which support his liver. When he was very poorly with liver problems, they seemed to pick him up a bit. They are a lot cheaper online than from the vets btw. They are SAM-e (whatever....works!) and should ideally be given on a fairly empty tum to work 100% well.

On the scan thing, be careful if they have to sedate to do the scan as the sedative (Torbugesic) is what did for Swampy's liver (although it was a freak reaction). A scan would be good, but hopefully he'll lie there and they can do it without sedation. Sounds like they can already tell that it is swollen.
Liver is very up and down and needs lots of TLC for months. But it CAN come right. It's tricky though as nearly all meds etc are metabolised by the liver, so the vet has to think about what he's going to give Sam on all occasions.
One thing I would say from experience is get the vet to explain all the blood results to you when they come back (that should be today??). Just to encourage you a bit, Swampy's ALT was 1500 and now it's normal (below 60). I think his first normal liver reading was a year after he was so ill though, so it does take a long time and lots of love and care. All the best for Sam

Eating's good - when they are really really terrible they wouldn't eat smoked salmon (or if they did, would come up again a few hours later) so don't worry about doing the wrong thing.
I doubt that any self respecting cat would eat Hills L/D but you could try it for poor Sam. I also fed 8x a day, little and often, if you are able to do that.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #21 on:** March 18, 2008, 08:06:59 AM »

Aww, the poor baby. I can see why the vet is saying that to you, it is much better to be prepared than it be a shock, but it isn't certain that he will be so bad. When do you get the blood test results?

Cheetsey · « **Reply #20 on:** March 17, 2008, 21:52:48 PM »

Quote from: Maddiesmum on March 17, 2008, 21:05:34 PM

How did the vet visit go?

Hi
It was a rollercoaster really, I got the vet to talk me through the blood tests and one minute it was looking good, he was eating, responded to drip etc and the next it was doom and gloom, we think he may have been ill for few months - hence she mentioned her concern again...we go away on Thursday for five days and we have booked him in to the cattery, so the vet said we must think about what might happen if he takes a turn for the worst in that time, who makes any final decision, them or the lady from the cattery?! It was then made worse by another vet coming in and feeling his liver to say, that yes she remembers, his liver feels a bit like a bunch of grapes to then saying she had the wrong cat and in actual fact Sams liver just feels very pronnounced. I said to my husband, I know they cant raise our hopes, but why the rollercoaster?! We have agreed to carry on for a week with the antibiotics and liver stimulant tablets and they will then take his blood tests again, if its not looking that great after that, we have to take him for a scan....bought him a feliway diffuser as well so he might feel a bit more settled

Maddiesmum · « **Reply #19 on:** March 17, 2008, 21:05:34 PM »

How did the vet visit go?

Mark · « **Reply #18 on:** March 17, 2008, 15:23:33 PM »

I'm sure it won't do any harm as a one-off but liver diets are low salt and smoked salmon is very high salt. Don't beat yourself up - we just do what we can for them.

This is another liver diet

http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/canned_cat_food_pouches/kattovit/61657

Fresh salmon is good though

I just checked a website for salt content of a 3oz serving

Steak 53mg
Baked Salmon 55mg
Chicken 57mg
Smoked Salmon 1700mg (the extra zero is really there

)

Cheetsey · « **Reply #17 on:** March 17, 2008, 15:19:44 PM »

Quote from: swampmaxmum on March 17, 2008, 12:05:58 PM

Hi Cheetsey, I'm so sorry to hear about Sam. My cat Swampy had very serious liver disease in 2006 and he has recovered from it quite well so please don't give up hope. Please ask your vet about Destolit (tablets) and if that would be worth a try as I am utterly convinced that it helped Swampy a lot & I know at least one specialist unit in the UK recommends that too. He took it for quite a few months, 1/4 tab a morning. It's a human medicine, not yet tested on cats, but if you google it, there's a lot about how in both the UK and abroad it's being used with success. When Swamp was discharged he was on antibiotics (2 kinds), Destolit and steroids for a bit.

Diet: well, Hills L/D is the recommended diet but sadly they changed it from a reasonably palatable beef to a rubbery pork muck. Nonetheless if Sam will eat that, it may really help as it has vitamin K, copper and all the other stuff that liver disease means they need. My vet told me that before L/D, cats were put on K/D (kidney) as it's the next best thing. If you go for that, personally I'd try him on Royal Canin renal pouches food (chicken's usually more accepted apparently: I blend it which he prefers to the chunks if feeling iffy) or the Hills K/D minced chicken rather than the harder 'original' one. Leo Specifics do a fishy renal/liver alutray if your vet insists on a fishy diet. Swampy liked it but it didn't stay down. Sam will probably vomit quite a bit and I was definitely told that bland foods (not rich foods, so be careful with fresh foods like tuna...he wasn't allowed that) are essential.
L/D is so horrible that I would get a few cans of it from your vet before ordering online, then if Sam won't eat it, at least they will take it back. I'm talking about the wet food as was also told that dry isn't as good for them.
I hope the drip makes Sam feel much stronger and we're sending lots and lots of positive vibes your way. It's a horrible disease but give it time and he could well recover Keep on purring little Sam!

Thanks for this, the positivity really helps as I don't want to give up on him....I just went home at lunchtime and gave him some smoked salmon, though reading your post that sounds like it wasn't such a great thing to do...

After being on the drip for 24hours he was bounding about and being gorgeous on Thursday and Friday and went downhill again at the weekend.

Its back to the vets tonight so I will ask him about the Destolit and see what they say....

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #16 on:** March 17, 2008, 12:05:58 PM »

Hi Cheetsey, I'm so sorry to hear about Sam. My cat Swampy had very serious liver disease in 2006 and he has recovered from it quite well so please don't give up hope. Please ask your vet about Destolit (tablets) and if that would be worth a try as I am utterly convinced that it helped Swampy a lot & I know at least one specialist unit in the UK recommends that too. He took it for quite a few months, 1/4 tab a morning. It's a human medicine, not yet tested on cats, but if you google it, there's a lot about how in both the UK and abroad it's being used with success. When Swamp was discharged he was on antibiotics (2 kinds), Destolit and steroids for a bit.

Diet: well, Hills L/D is the recommended diet but sadly they changed it from a reasonably palatable beef to a rubbery pork muck. Nonetheless if Sam will eat that, it may really help as it has vitamin K, copper and all the other stuff that liver disease means they need. My vet told me that before L/D, cats were put on K/D (kidney) as it's the next best thing. If you go for that, personally I'd try him on Royal Canin renal pouches food (chicken's usually more accepted apparently: I blend it which he prefers to the chunks if feeling iffy) or the Hills K/D minced chicken rather than the harder 'original' one. Leo Specifics do a fishy renal/liver alutray if your vet insists on a fishy diet. Swampy liked it but it didn't stay down. Sam will probably vomit quite a bit and I was definitely told that bland foods (not rich foods, so be careful with fresh foods like tuna...he wasn't allowed that) are essential.
L/D is so horrible that I would get a few cans of it from your vet before ordering online, then if Sam won't eat it, at least they will take it back. I'm talking about the wet food as was also told that dry isn't as good for them.
I hope the drip makes Sam feel much stronger and we're sending lots and lots of positive vibes your way. It's a horrible disease but give it time and he could well recover

Keep on purring little Sam!

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #15 on:** March 17, 2008, 09:09:48 AM »

I would try it through your vet first though, last time I looked at VetUK, you had to buy 24 tins of it, and it is guaranteed they wont eat it then. Wet food is also much better for liver issues than dry food.

Maddiesmum · « **Reply #14 on:** March 17, 2008, 06:52:32 AM »

I have no advice to offer you but hope Sam responds and things improve. Everyone here is so supportive and I am glad that you found Purrs

Mark · « **Reply #13 on:** March 16, 2008, 22:52:52 PM »

Hills have about 10 or more different prescription diets. You can order them from your vet but they are cheaper online from VetUK (if you order via a link from a rescue, they also get 5% commisssion

)

One of mine is on J/D (joint diet)
one is on M/D (Metabolism diet - this is for weight loss or diabetes)

This is the Liver one
http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=62_66_104&products_id=418&zenid=d5430c8053b6aa7c3b08b1a434c5b808

They also do a wet version but works out quite expensive.

Sam (Fussy_Furball) · « **Reply #12 on:** March 16, 2008, 20:22:49 PM »

Hills K/D prescription food. K/D - kidney disease.

Cheetsey · « **Reply #11 on:** March 16, 2008, 20:19:06 PM »

Quote from: Mark on March 16, 2008, 20:03:22 PM

Quote from: Desley (booktigger) on March 16, 2008, 19:40:35 PM
if ld is anything like kd, I can't blame them!!

Yes - I have 3 unopened boxes of K/D that have been in the cupboard for a year, along with some other brands

What's KD?

Mark · « **Reply #10 on:** March 16, 2008, 20:03:22 PM »

Quote from: Desley (booktigger) on March 16, 2008, 19:40:35 PM

if ld is anything like kd, I can't blame them!!

Yes - I have 3 unopened boxes of K/D that have been in the cupboard for a year, along with some other brands

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #9 on:** March 16, 2008, 19:40:35 PM »

Fingers crossed for him, i have had a cat with raised liver enzymes, she hated prescription diets (Hills had discontinued their liver diet at the time, so she was given the kidney diet - she did like the dry though), and to get her to eat and put weight on she was given regular tuna for a long time, and it took 11 months before hers developed into anything more serious, and even then it was something that could have been treated, if she had liked being medicated (I always end up with cats that refuse to take things, so I have to go for quality rather than quantity), and one with undiagnosed liver issues picked up when he went for a dental - vet said they were really bad, and combined with his bad teeth, he wouldnt manage well - she didn't know he had jumped on the worktop to polish off the leftover chicken, despite looking frail and thin!! Good luck with your baby, and if given the right food, the liver can partly regenerate, so I would ask about prescription food, but dont be surprised if they dont eat it - if ld is anything like kd, I can't blame them!!

Christine (Blip) · « **Reply #8 on:** March 16, 2008, 17:17:04 PM »

Picking up on what Gillian has said, I mix warmed water into Blips food to make it very sloppy and soup-like. We do this because Blip loves it, but it would be an excellent way of getting more liquid into Sam.

PS I use Natures Menu to make Blips "pottage".

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #7 on:** March 16, 2008, 16:37:09 PM »

Quote from: Cheetsey on March 16, 2008, 14:47:39 PM

I'm new here so would firstly would like to say hello, I have a ten year old cat called Sam, who is a boy, though when we are trying to irritate him, we use a girls name "Pam".

Haha! - I use a combination of those two names when talking to my Sam sometimes - 'so he gets called Spam' LOL

Welcome,

and sorry to hear about Sam's liver disease - I'm afraid I don't know much about it so can't be much help. With regard to him not taking his tablets crushed in his food very readily, what about trying them wrapped in wafer thin ham? or if he likes Defurr-um treats you can break those in half and push the tab into the gooey stuff inside. Cats who eat wet food often don't drink all that much, but if he needs to have more water you could actually add some to his food if he doesnt like the syringe, or maybe try him with a water fountain - cats will often drink more readily from moving water.

Cheetsey · « **Reply #6 on:** March 16, 2008, 16:02:12 PM »

Quote from: Mark on March 16, 2008, 15:39:05 PM

Hi Cheetsey,

Welcome to purrs. I'm sorry to say it but not very many vets are up on nutrition. This isn't the first time I have heard of vets recommending the wrong foods. I also wouldn't go with the first info I found on the internet as there is a lot of misinformation out there too. I would do a bit more research online and then discuss it with the vet. Has your vet recommended a prescription diet such as Hill's L/D?

Hi
Thanks for the response, she hasn't recommended a subscription diet yet; my husband picked him up for me on Thursday so he would be here when I got home from work, so I can only go off what he says...I'm being brave enough to go back myself tomorrow, I'm being a bit ridiculous really but he just keeps looking at me with those big eyes (Sam-Pam, not my husband) and I start bawling my eyes out..

Christine (Blip) · « **Reply #5 on:** March 16, 2008, 15:44:18 PM »

to Purrs, Cheetsey. I am sorry to hear that Sam has this diagnosis but hope you will be able to get good advice on here.

You will get conflicting advice, here and on the wider Internet, so the best bet is to read as widely as you can and discuss with your vet(s) to make informed decisions.

I myself know nothing about liver disease, but I would remark that fish meal and shellfish does not necessarily preclude fish.

Edited to add this link about fishmeal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_meal

Mark · « **Reply #4 on:** March 16, 2008, 15:39:05 PM »

Hi Cheetsey,

Welcome to purrs. I'm sorry to say it but not very many vets are up on nutrition. This isn't the first time I have heard of vets recommending the wrong foods. I also wouldn't go with the first info I found on the internet as there is a lot of misinformation out there too. I would do a bit more research online and then discuss it with the vet. Has your vet recommended a prescription diet such as Hill's L/D?

Cheetsey · « **Reply #3 on:** March 16, 2008, 15:09:43 PM »

Quote from: Sam (Fussy_Furball) on March 16, 2008, 15:02:55 PM

Hi and to Purrs,

Sorry you found us under these circumstances but you have come to the right place. Although I have no experience of this condition I am sure you will get lots of advice and support from everyone here.

I have done a quick search and the following sites might be of interest:

http://www.fabcats.org/owners/liver/info.html

http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/liver.html

Please keep us updated on Sam (great name )

All the best

Sam, Foxy, Zephyr and Rossi xxx

Hi Sam

Thanks for the warm welcome - I've just looked at the first article which says "Cats with liver problems should not be given shellfish, organ meat, or foods containing fish meal. These contain purines which metabolize to form uric acid, something the cat's damaged liver cannot process"

I'm confused about this as the vet told us we were okay to feed him fish......and gave us some high protein fishy food to give him!

Sam (Fussy_Furball) · « **Reply #2 on:** March 16, 2008, 15:02:55 PM »

Hi and

to Purrs,

Sorry you found us under these circumstances but you have come to the right place. Although I have no experience of this condition I am sure you will get lots of advice and support from everyone here.

I have done a quick search and the following sites might be of interest:

http://www.fabcats.org/owners/liver/info.html

http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/liver.html

Please keep us updated on Sam (great name

)

All the best

Sam, Foxy, Zephyr and Rossi xxx

Cheetsey · « **Reply #1 on:** March 16, 2008, 14:47:39 PM »

Hi

I'm new here so would firstly would like to say hello, I have a ten year old cat called Sam, who is a boy, though when we are trying to irritate him, we use a girls name "Pam".

Last wednesday he was diagnosed with Liver disease, I think at first the vet thought it was worse as she was talking about it being a long life in the wild etc, and she was very concerned and we should be prepared for the worst.

Anyway, we took him back the next day for blood tests and got a call from the vet in the afternoon. Apparently Sam-Pam has "significant" liver disease, though his heart, blood tests etc were all fine. They kept him in on a drip to see how he reacted for the night and then called the following day to say he had responded well and was eating (he never stopped in actual fact, he still purrs when he eats.) He's now been home two days, we have some natural tablets "hepatosyl" to give him and some other tablets to help his skin which is dry and jaundiced. I've also bought a syringe to give him some water as he doesn't seem to be drinking, coupled with the fact we have just moved so he isn't going out.

We are still uncertain what is going to happen, we have to take him back tomorrow for the vet to look him over. It's really stressful though as he doesn't seem keen on eating his food with the tablets crushed in (we are using extra fishey stuff) and he hisses everytime I try and put water in his mouth...

Has anyone else had a cat with liver problems, my first reaction was to bawl my eyes out and I was going to have to have him put to sleep, but he still seems relatively lively and the vets mentioned that the liver can regenerate itself... One minute I'm optimistic and the next I feel really sick and sad

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Author Topic: Liver Disease (Read 14360 times)